Over Vaxed?

[khunbillmex]

 

Tomorrow (Aug 2) in Khon Kaen I'm sked for my 1st jab of something - probably SInovac.

A few weeks ago one of the large private hospitals here was selling reservations (at THB3300) for Moderna deliverable sometime between Oct and Mar.

Today (Aug 1) the Thai expatvac website went on line for foreigner registration for Pfizer

If I win the vax lottery and am offered all three of these vax are there any risks in getting all three?

[OneMoreFarang]

17 minutes ago, khunbillmex said:

If I win the vax lottery and am offered all three of these vax are there any risks in getting all three?

Talk to your doctor!

It seems getting one shot with vaccine X and another shot maybe 4 weeks later with vaccine Y is now not unusual anymore. But if you mix three of them and maybe in a short period of time that might not be such a good idea.

[worgeordie]

The Government seems to think its OK ????????,

regards worgeordie   P.S. you will be extremely lucky if you get 2

Edited August 1, 2021 by worgeordie

[internationalism]

but foreign ministry from expatvax won't give you anything, if you have jab tomorrow.

anyway, it was not for pfizer. Possible for pfizer for hiso associated with this ministry, but not folks.

I would also suspect, that your payed moderna won't be so easily to get, if you have now 2 free jabs.

The government might take it and pay you back (or not)

[KhunBENQ]

Sinovac followed by AstraZeneca is policy here for upcountry.

I got Sinovac and will get AZ in short of four weeks.

(I would expect you get the same?)

In the end I am quite happy to have a vaccinated "status" in Thailand fairly quick.

In Germany AZ followed by BioNTech/Pfizer is officially supported.

 

You will have problems to find statements about Sinovac followed by an mRNA vaccine. Have I read that China considers using Pfizer as a booster?

I am in the same situation that Moderna might be offered later in the year.

Just wait whether more information comes out.

 

[KhunBENQ]

1 hour ago, internationalism said:

but foreign ministry from expatvax won't give you anything, if you have jab tomorrow.

anyway, it was not for pfizer. Possible for pfizer for hiso associated with this ministry, but not folks.

I would also suspect, that your payed moderna won't be so easily to get, if you have now 2 free jabs.

The government might take it and pay you back (or not)

Latest news is that MedPark Bangkok will take registrations with a choice of Sino/AZ/Pfizer (other thread).

 

I don't think the government will interfere with the paid Moderna stuff.

Purely medical decision whether this should be done or not.

 

BTW Israel starts a campaign for third vaccination but all with "hiso" Pfizer.

And Germany has to throw away expired AZ after it has been talked down to death by the tabloids.

(some remaining unexpired maybe donated finally to Africa?)

 

Edited August 1, 2021 by KhunBENQ

[Jingthing]

I think it's fair to say that you CAN overdo it. 

[KhunBENQ]

https://fortune.com/2021/07/16/china-mrna-vaccine-pfizer-biontech-fosun-doses/

 

Quote

Caixin reports that authorities plan to use the BioNTech jabs not as alternatives to its domestically produced shots, but instead as optional booster shots after people get a two-dose regimen of Chinese vaccines. Thomas says this measure may be the best way for China to avoid undermining confidence in its existing vaccine campaign while also improving immunity in its population.

 

“[BioNTech booster shots] would combine with, and thereby validate, the existing vaccine regime in China,” says Thomas.

 

[codemonkey]

It has been articulated by the hospital(s) & vaccine promoter/provider, ie: BOI, that 1st & 2nd jabs must be scheduled and completed from same provider and hospital in order to receive the official vaccine record. Mixing vaccines from two separate providers and different vaccines might upend the system and leave you without an official vaccine record?

Edited August 2, 2021 by codemonkey

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, codemonkey said:

I was told by the hospital(s) & vaccine promoter/provider, ie: BOI, that 1st & 2nd jabs must be scheduled and completed from same provider and hospital in order to receive the official vaccine record. Mixing vaccines from two separate providers and different vaccines might upend the system and leave you without an official vaccine record?

It would.

The policy here is very clear.

Stick with the same place for the initial two doses including mix doses.

Whether that means there will be flexibility allowed for later booster doses is not yet known. 

[codemonkey]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It would.

The policy here is very clear.

Stick with the same place for the initial two doses including mix doses.

Whether that means there will be flexibility allowed for later booster doses is not yet known. 

Yes, sounds like mixing is a good strategy at this point but can an expat make this work with all the current regulations and every changing registration woes in Thailand?

My research suggests AZ followed by Phizer is a potential effective and safe combination to this point as shown in very preliminary testing.

[scubascuba3]

I'm due my 2nd later this month, if i get offered a 3rd in several months time aka a booster i may take it after some checking online

Edited August 2, 2021 by scubascuba3

[Jingthing]

31 minutes ago, codemonkey said:

Yes, sounds like mixing is a good strategy at this point but can an expat make this work with all the current regulations and every changing registration woes in Thailand?

My research suggests AZ followed by Phizer is a potential effective and safe combination to this point as shown in very preliminary testing.

No. You can't make it work now. You need to take your second dose where you got your first. In some cases they are doing Sinovac first and I think AstraZeneca second. But no place is doing AstraZeneca then Pfizer. 

[mfd101]

I registered yesterday on the new site, for jabs here in Surin. I'm expecting (but don't know) either 2 SVs or SV + AZ later. Either way I'll be cheerful enough, though I think the latter likely provides better protection than the former.

 

Then late in the year or next year a booster of either P or M. That's the plan.

 

Of mice 'n men.

[digbeth]

lf you had Sinovac or Astra before, they won't administer the Moderna and will give you a refund or let  you transfer your shot to somebody else take your place. 

[HampiK]

1 hour ago, digbeth said:

lf you had Sinovac or Astra before, they won't administer the Moderna and will give you a refund or let  you transfer your shot to somebody else take your place. 

Wrong. my registration place of Moderna even gave use Example how to use Moderna as booster 1 or 2 shots after Sinova and/or AZ!  As we have 2 AZ shots by end of this week, we are able in a few months to use Moderna as booster.

 

[rabas]

3 hours ago, digbeth said:

lf you had Sinovac or Astra before, they won't administer the Moderna and will give you a refund or let  you transfer your shot to somebody else take your place. 

A senior physician and friend registered me and others at his hospital. He assured everyone that the Moderna program was not dependent on vaccination history, only on good medical practice.

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by rabas

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, rabas said:

A senior physician and friend registered me and others at his hospital. He assured everyone that the Moderna program was not dependent on vaccination history, only on good medical practice.

 

Yeah because people here will use that as a booster AFTER they get two doses of something else that will give them a fully vaxed record.

[richard_smith237]

On 8/1/2021 at 1:03 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Talk to your doctor!

It seems getting one shot with vaccine X and another shot maybe 4 weeks later with vaccine Y is now not unusual anymore. But if you mix three of them and maybe in a short period of time that might not be such a good idea.

I recall having Polio, Tetanus, Yellow Fever, Hepatitis, Typhoid all at the same time...  

Taking vaccines at the same time has never been an issue. 

 

Now all the attention is on the Covid-19 vaccines a lot of people have become somewhat hysterical.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

I recall having Polio, Tetanus, Yellow Fever, Hepatitis, Typhoid all at the same time...  

Taking vaccines at the same time has never been an issue. 

 

Now all the attention is on the Covid-19 vaccines a lot of people have become somewhat hysterical.

And how long have all those other vaccines be used already?

As far as I know all current Covid vaccines are only approved with emergency regulations or something similar because there are no long time test. Better careful than sorry...

[richard_smith237]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

8 hours ago, codemonkey said:

Yes, sounds like mixing is a good strategy at this point but can an expat make this work with all the current regulations and every changing registration woes in Thailand?

My research suggests AZ followed by Phizer is a potential effective and safe combination to this point as shown in very preliminary testing.

No. You can't make it work now. You need to take your second dose where you got your first. In some cases they are doing Sinovac first and I think AstraZeneca second. But no place is doing AstraZeneca then Pfizer. 

 

I think it would be difficult to ‘mix vaccines’ within Thailand, if someone is registered under Mor Promp for taking a SinoVac vaccine, they can probably get an AZ at MedPark with separate registration - but securing the ‘dual Vaccination’ certificate is going to be tricky. 

 

 

I am taking a Mixed vaccination, but only because I have travelled overseas. 

 

In early June I took AZ in Thailand. Beginning of July I took a Pfizer dose and I will take a follow up Pfizer dose in a few days. 

 

Research suggests that Viral Vector followed by mRNA offers better effiacy. I can’t see how a 3rd injection (a second Pfizer injection) is going to hurt. I’m treating it as a booster - I need it for the ‘vaccine certificate’ (to show I’ve received both doses). 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And how long have all those other vaccines be used already?

As far as I know all current Covid vaccines are only approved with emergency regulations or something similar because there are no long time test. Better careful than sorry...

While it is correct to be alert, the world does seem to have become somewhat neurotic about the vaccines. 

the Technology has been the same for decades, it is just the ‘inactivated virus / dead virus’ which is different.

The mRNA vaccines are also different tech, but they too have been around for decades, just not commonly used. 

 

I’m not so quick to jump on the hysteria bandwagon, I trust the science behind the vaccines, but understand there is no long term study. I don’t think there is any additional risk from ‘mixing’ the vaccine, but I don’t I think there is any risk in ‘taking the vaccine in the first place’.

 

I’m left with little choice anyway - I took AZ in Thailand (not knowing when I’d get call back overseas), then I got called back overseas and need to take Two Pfizer doses at work or I simply can’t be here.

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And how long have all those other vaccines be used already?

As far as I know all current Covid vaccines are only approved with emergency regulations or something similar because there are no long time test. Better careful than sorry...

 

A slightly separate point: But let's not forget our risk profile. We are both gents who ride a motorcycle in Thailand....  I apply a ‘balanced risk’ approach and find it acceptable to ride a motorcycle in Thailand because I enjoy it. 

 

I apply a ‘balanced risk’ approach to vaccines, I see far less risk in vaccines than I do many other things. I certainly see no elevated risk in mixing vaccines or in taking a 3rd dose within 2 months of the first. 

 

Consider: As 6ft 95kg male I am given the same 4mg dose as a 45kg female - If there was significant concern the dosage would be very closely managed.

[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

A slightly separate point: But let's not forget our risk profile. We are both gents who ride a motorcycle in Thailand....  I apply a ‘balanced risk’ approach and find it acceptable to ride a motorcycle in Thailand because I enjoy it. 

 

I apply a ‘balanced risk’ approach to vaccines, I see far less risk in vaccines than I do many other things. I certainly see no elevated risk in mixing vaccines or in taking a 3rd dose within 2 months of the first. 

 

Consider: As 6ft 95kg male I am given the same 4mg dose as a 45kg female - If there was significant concern the dosage would be very closely managed.

I am also pretty sure that mostly the vaccines are no big risk. And possibly mixing them is also no big risk. But who really knows?

One look at almost any medicine out there shows a long long list of possible side effects. Many people don't have those side effect but some people do. And probably combine drug A with drug B and there will be more possible side effects. IMHO that doesn't mean nobody should mix A with B. But at least I am more comfortable if I know thousands or millions of people did that mixing already. If they did then the risk is probably not too high.

But how many people had i.e. two Sinovac shots and then Astra and maybe two weeks later Pfizer? If guess few people had that. And even if they had it and if they didn't have any side effect within lets say 3 months doesn't mean there are no side effects maybe in 6 or 12 months.

 

There are always risks with taking drugs and getting vaccines etc. It's up to us if we think the risk is higher to get infected or to have some bad side effects. 

[watthong]

7 hours ago, mfd101 said:

I registered yesterday on the new site, for jabs here in Surin. I'm expecting (but don't know) either 2 SVs or SV + AZ later. Either way I'll be cheerful enough, though I think the latter likely provides better protection than the former.

 

Then late in the year or next year a booster of either P or M. That's the plan.

I applaud you. Whatever the source of info you've been following, you're on the right track (though no need to spit hairs over SV vs. AZ). I also wish that other folks would get themselves in similar state of mind, and not OVER-vax themselves. I know you can do it at this stage where vaccine rollout is still in a messy stage, but please don't do the "toilet paper-hoarding" maneuver, other people need jabs too.

[mfd101]

Today's Le Monde says that the German government has decided that all aged people in old people's homes are to receive a booster shot of either Pf or Mod IRRESPECTIVE of what they have already received as their 1st & 2nd shots.

 

So mix'nmatch is not just something that the Germans have been doing, as it were incidentally. It's now formal government policy.

[codemonkey]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I think it would be difficult to ‘mix vaccines’ within Thailand, if someone is registered under Mor Promp for taking a SinoVac vaccine, they can probably get an AZ at MedPark with separate registration - but securing the ‘dual Vaccination’ certificate is going to be tricky. 

 

 

I am taking a Mixed vaccination, but only because I have travelled overseas. 

 

In early June I took AZ in Thailand. Beginning of July I took a Pfizer dose and I will take a follow up Pfizer dose in a few days. 

 

Research suggests that Viral Vector followed by mRNA offers better effiacy. I can’t see how a 3rd injection (a second Pfizer injection) is going to hurt. I’m treating it as a booster - I need it for the ‘vaccine certificate’ (to show I’ve received both doses). 

 

 

 

 

 

So, Since from June to say Aug 5th (60-65 days) you will have been vaxxed 3 times in with only about 3 weeks between AZ and Pfizer? On who's advise did you follow for that regimen or did you plan it? Any noteworthy ill effects?

[shdmn]

2 minutes ago, codemonkey said:

So, Since from June to say Aug 5th (60-65 days) you will have been vaxxed 3 times in with only about 3 weeks between AZ and Pfizer? On who's advise did you follow for that regimen or did you plan it? Any noteworthy ill effects?

I read about an elderly lady that accidentally got 3 AZ jabs within a couple weeks and she got pretty sick.  So I know you should not get them too close together.  That's about the worst I have heard.

Edited August 2, 2021 by shdmn

[watthong]

If talking in the context of being in the land such the US, UK, etc. where vaccines are plenty and folks who are not yet vaccinated are treated as endangered species, then go ahead, folks, OVER-vax yourselves to your heart's content, if you THINK that'll do you any good. ..

 

However,  if getting a FREE 3rd jab just within a few weeks time of the 2nd one (whatever brand it was) and doing it in a place where vaccines are scant and people are suffering/dying for lack of vaccines, such as in Thailand, is truly unconscionable. Please think about it and have some sympathy for your fellow breathing human beings, regardless of their race.

[richard_smith237]

On 8/2/2021 at 6:02 PM, codemonkey said:

On 8/2/2021 at 3:16 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

I think it would be difficult to ‘mix vaccines’ within Thailand, if someone is registered under Mor Promp for taking a SinoVac vaccine, they can probably get an AZ at MedPark with separate registration - but securing the ‘dual Vaccination’ certificate is going to be tricky. 

 

 

I am taking a Mixed vaccination, but only because I have travelled overseas. 

 

In early June I took AZ in Thailand. Beginning of July I took a Pfizer dose and I will take a follow up Pfizer dose in a few days. 

 

Research suggests that Viral Vector followed by mRNA offers better effiacy. I can’t see how a 3rd injection (a second Pfizer injection) is going to hurt. I’m treating it as a booster - I need it for the ‘vaccine certificate’ (to show I’ve received both doses). 

 

 

 

 

 

Expand  

So, Since from June to say Aug 5th (60-65 days) you will have been vaxxed 3 times in with only about 3 weeks between AZ and Pfizer? On who's advise did you follow for that regimen or did you plan it? Any noteworthy ill effects?

[Beginning of June: AZ / Beginning of July: Pfizer / Beginning of Aug: Pfizer] - 4 weeks between each (thats jus the way it worked out)

 

No ill effects....  I needed to have the 2x Pfizer vaccines for work, to secure vaccine certification and to secure a ‘sandbox’ return to Thailand.

 

Had I known I’d be receiving both Pfizer doses in July and Aug I would not have taken the AZ vaccine in Thailand at the beginning of June - I never had the luxury of knowing when I’d be called back overseas so took AZ when I had the chance. 

 

Research shows no issues with mixing AZ and Pfizer, and a further Pfizer dose a month after the first is not going to cause any damage - it’ll either ‘boost’ antibodies a little more, or it’ll do nothing. 

 

As it turns out, I felt a little ‘crappy’ the day after I took the second Pfizer dose, less so than the day after I took the first Pfizer dose. So I can only assume it triggered my immune response and built more antibodies. 

 

----------

 

Now, a question to the ‘vaccine hysterics’.... IF you took a Covid-19 vaccine (Sinovac, AZ, Pfizer, Moderna) and were then bitten by a dog, would you panic about getting a rabies shot and mixing it ?

Or if you cut yourself on a rusty nail, would you panic about getting a rabies shot and mixing it ?

 

There is all way too much panic about these vaccines... no one ever panicked about vaccines until Covid-19... We’ll give or take a number of complete antivax nutters who placed their children in grave danger on the advice Andrew Wakefield, the British Dr who was struck off the medal register for his part in triggering the Anti-vaccine movement. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by richard_smith237