Your Covid 19 papers, please

[placeholder]

13 minutes ago, chrissables said:

UK, the hospitals stopped, cancelled or delayed treatment. 

The COVID-19 outbreak has had a huge impact on core NHS services. In order to free up enough capacity to deal with the initial peak of the pandemic, the NHS was forced to shut down or significantly reduce many areas of non-COVID care during April, May and June 2020. i This, combined with fewer patients seeking care during lockdown, means that there has been a significant drop in elective procedures, urgent cancer referrals, first cancer treatments and outpatient appointments

https://www.bma.org.uk/media/2840/the-hidden-impact-of-covid_web-pdf.pdf

[chessman]

Imagine a world with no speed limits on the roads and a government that tried to introduce them. Some people would complain bitterly about their personal freedom being restricted and ignore and twist every piece of evidence about people that drive very fast being more at risk.

 

Imagine a world with no schools and a government that tried to introduce them. Some people would complain bitterly about the forced indoctrination of their children and reject any notion that a more educated society would be in the best interests of the majority. 
 

Imagine a world with a novel virus killing millions of people and scientific evidence that overwhelmingly points towards vaccinations being the best way to to help us return to normality.  People will complain bitterly about regulations aimed to encourage vaccination and discourage unvaccinated people from being in places where they could spread the virus.

 

Yes, the government is restricting your personal freedom but it is already doing that in a million other ways. 

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Nurseynutcase said:

I suggest you look at Daily sceptic which is a UK site but open to all.  On the right hand side you will find all the relevant information/stats you would need.

 

ALL of it researched with references.

You mean junk articles like this?

COVID-19 Vaccinations 98 Times More Deadly Than Flu Vaccines (According to VAERS Reports)

https://trialsitenews.com/covid-19-vaccinations-98-times-more-deadly-than-flu-vaccines-according-to-vaers-reports/

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, Nurseynutcase said:

I suggest you look at Daily sceptic which is a UK site but open to all.  On the right hand side you will find all the relevant information/stats you would need.

 

ALL of it researched with references.

The Daily Skeptic is a conspiracy website run by rightwing extremist. 

[Nurseynutcase]

29 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The Daily Skeptic is a conspiracy website run by rightwing extremist. 

We are all entitled to our own opinions,  I dispute what you say but it is your right to say it.

[Stevemercer]

I don't really care, except that I do not have a smart phone.

 

I imagine all countries will be asking for proof sooner or later.

[shackleton]

I would not mind once I have my second vaccine and receive the Certificate

Not a big deal worth worrying about 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Nurseynutcase said:

Bagwain - I think you and I are singing from the same sheet.  Over 1500 deaths from the jab in the Uk alone 15,000+ in the USA, sorry i have forgotten the stats for Europe.  I would much rather take my chance with the virus which has a survival rate of over 99%.

 

I refuse to face a disabilty/death from a so-called vaccine.

 

Re the chance of getting run over by a bus - yes definitely in Thailand, but usually by a motorbike.

Links please.

[Caldera]

In general, in setups where proper distancing and wearing masks isn't possible (eg. when dining out), ensuring that everyone is vaccinated and/or tested negative isn't a bad idea.

 

What's unfortunate in the case of Thailand, however, is that they roll this out before everyone has had a chance to get vaccinated first. For this reason, it's hard to see how businesses can enforce this without going bankrupt.

[Kevin Taylor]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The relevant point is hospital beds and ICU units in particular are full with COVID patients amongst which the unvaccinated account for a disproportionately high number. 

 

The point you miss is the high demand the health services are seeing now is a lot lower than it would be without the lockdowns and other precautions. 

 

 

 

So you think anywhere at any time lockdowns are enforced infections go down. Look around you thats not true here in Thailand. Take away peoples ability to earn money and they are forced to group together to survive more people sharing accomodations. Look at the now many homeless they group together for safety. Not everyone has the ability to stay in there house order takeaways and live off their pension. By taking away peoples income you are forcing them to group together whilst taking the moral high ground and blaming them for the increase in infections.

[Chomper Higgot]

21 minutes ago, Kevin Taylor said:

So you think anywhere at any time lockdowns are enforced infections go down. Look around you thats not true here in Thailand. Take away peoples ability to earn money and they are forced to group together to survive more people sharing accomodations. Look at the now many homeless they group together for safety. Not everyone has the ability to stay in there house order takeaways and live off their pension. By taking away peoples income you are forcing them to group together whilst taking the moral high ground and blaming them for the increase in infections.

Lockdowns are demonstrated to work.

 

Your assertion that I blame people suffering the hardships of lockdowns or take the moral high ground to do so is unfounded.

 

I’m doing my bit, getting vaccinated, following the public health guidelines and encouraging others to do likewise.

 

What are you doing to hasten the end of this public health emergency?

[Snoopax]

Just boycott them.

[chessman]

36 minutes ago, Kevin Taylor said:

So you think anywhere at any time lockdowns are enforced infections go down.

I don’t think anybody thinks that.

 

the point of lockdowns is to reduce the R0 number so that the speed of spread is slowed.

[rbkk]

2 hours ago, shackleton said:

I would not mind once I have my second vaccine and receive the Certificate

Not a big deal worth worrying about 

I received my 2nd dose of AZ this morning. the certificate they issued me is only in Thai language, NO english. Also, the passport number has been left blank and only my Thai ID No, (Yellow Book) is shown. The address is only in Thai so the certificate is useless for travel. Also, the Qcode link (Green Card) only shows my name in Thai with no passport number shown and no nationality shown. I returned to the hospital just now and they said they had no English program to fix the issues. They sent me home to await a phone call God knows when. It can be fixed in Bangkok they said but agreed that was a silly option. I'm guessing this could be an issue for many others. Who would have thought that you would need English language Vaccination Cards, eh? When the borders do reopen this could be a right mess.

Edited August 30, 2021 by rbkk

[BKKBike09]

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I don’t mind accepting help to avoid hospitalization and death.

 

Maybe that’s an odd thing about me.

 

 

I think you mean "to reduce greatly the risk" of hospitalisation and death. If the vaccines truly allowed everyone to avoid hospitalisation and death, I think a lot more people would accept that help.

 

Plus reduction of risk is all relative to age - when it comes to deaths from Covid a fully vaccinated 80-year-old has a similar risk to an unvaccinated 50-year-old:

 

“If fully vaccinated, the risk of being hospitalised falls by about 90%,” said Prof David Spiegelhalter, chair of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication, at Cambridge University. “But it doesn’t disappear, and as a large proportion of the highest risk people are now vaccinated it’s inevitable they will start to form the majority of the people with Covid in hospital, particularly as most of the unvaccinated people are young and therefore at low risk. Indeed, being young reduces the risk even more than being vaccinated.”

Another big factor at play is age. McConway says the risk of an infected person being hospitalised is at least 10 times, and as much as 25 times greater, for a 75-year-old than a 25-year-old. If the latter risk is on the mark, then a vaccine that prevents 96% of hospitalisations would slash admissions among 75-year-olds to that seen in those 50 years younger.

When it comes to deaths from Covid a fully vaccinated 80-year-old has a similar risk to an unvaccinated 50-year-old.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/22/rates-of-double-jabbed-people-in-hospital-will-grow-but-that-does-not-mean-covid-vaccines-are-failing

 

[BKKBike09]

6 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I never said that, e.g. trust governments, au contraire.

 

I have to disagree with your comment above as I believe that the vast majority of people are serious, just look at how many are being vaccinated, here that number would grow exponentially if they could offer people a half decent vaccine.

 

Covid will become less a threat when the majority of the world gets vaccinated, otherwise it will continue to be out there doing what it does, and of no one likes restrictions, particularly me, but we have them already, e.g. you cannot drive a motor vehicle without a license, travel abroad without a passport, travel on public transport without paying, are these not restrictions, I could go on, but you should get my drift.

 

We understand history, however if you feel you are free at the moment, you are misinformed, we have and are under control, has been like that for a long time, however we do have our freedoms, as long as we comply, just try and go against the grain and see what happens and my point will be proven.

 

We are born and live in fear till we die, Yes I have been vaccinated 1st dose Pfizer, I wouldn't wear a mask in the plane if not required, however if I had to, I would probably see if I could wear a shield as masks for a certain period are ok, but on a long haul flight, would be a pain. Anyone that suggests that they are not fearful of death is already dead in my opinion. I love life, I fear death, but I don't hide under my bed, I live life and have had a great life, having experienced many things and travelled the world, at this point in my life having a young family, I take as much care to eat right, exercise and look after my health best I can having almost been taken by a heart attack 13 years ago, so I do have an underlying condition and want to extend my shelf life for as much as possible as I retired 6 years ago enjoying the fruits of my 40 year of labour, after isn't that what we are supposed to do after working in the slave trade for so many decades.

 

I believe I have answered the 1st sentence above and agree it's a personal choice, I for one would never want someone forced to be vaccinated, on the other hand, if they risk the potential of infecting others due to not being vaccinated, then they will face certain restrictions, e.g. if your drunk and go to enter a night club, how far do you think your going to get, and your not even potentially infected with a virus.

 

Fear is definitely out there, not only for over 50's, it is now the younger ones too as they line up to get vaccinated, I recently saw a news program which showed 3 people in hospital, 2 were unvaccinated, one had an appointment the following month, but Covid got him, the 3rd one had one dose but a week into it Covid got her, she was 30 and a single mother, the guy who had a the appointment next month and got Covid looked strong, fit and healthy, he was flat on his stomach struggling to breath, the woman (30) had recovered after 2 weeks but was struggling to breath and could wait to see her kids, the other guy who I haven't spoken of yet was in the same boat as the woman, however he was married, his wife was in another hospital and his two kids were in another hospital. That is the biggest fear I have, i.e. being separated if the family gets Covid, that said, the family has private hospital cover and Buddha willing we don't get it bad enough to end up in a hospital, but if we do, we should be able to be in the same one, beds available, and talking of fear, my biggest is if my wife was taken early, how would I cope with 4 kids, fear is real, but I don't dwell on it, I am conscious of what is going on, but don't allow fear it to control me or my family. If I was single, I couldn't give a rats a$$, but being married, I take my responsibilities serious so as to provide for my family and see the kids through to an age that they can stand on their own, almost there ????

 

Stay safe, be conscious as you say, but also realise things are changing and if you don't want to be restricted, then get on board, otherwise be left behind, but don't spit chips that you weren't told about it.

I appreciate the time you've taken in this response although I do find it rather convoluted.

 

[djayz]

5 hours ago, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

Not Sweden.

Yes, those northern Europeans do tend to be a little more rational. It must be the cold. 

[metisdead]

Posts with unsubstantiated claims have been removed. 

[4MyEgo]

27 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

I appreciate the time you've taken in this response although I do find it rather convoluted.

 

Your welcome, next time I will bring it down a notch just for you ????

 

[Chomper Higgot]

43 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

I think you mean "to reduce greatly the risk" of hospitalisation and death. If the vaccines truly allowed everyone to avoid hospitalisation and death, I think a lot more people would accept that help.

 

Plus reduction of risk is all relative to age - when it comes to deaths from Covid a fully vaccinated 80-year-old has a similar risk to an unvaccinated 50-year-old:

 

“If fully vaccinated, the risk of being hospitalised falls by about 90%,” said Prof David Spiegelhalter, chair of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication, at Cambridge University. “But it doesn’t disappear, and as a large proportion of the highest risk people are now vaccinated it’s inevitable they will start to form the majority of the people with Covid in hospital, particularly as most of the unvaccinated people are young and therefore at low risk. Indeed, being young reduces the risk even more than being vaccinated.”

Another big factor at play is age. McConway says the risk of an infected person being hospitalised is at least 10 times, and as much as 25 times greater, for a 75-year-old than a 25-year-old. If the latter risk is on the mark, then a vaccine that prevents 96% of hospitalisations would slash admissions among 75-year-olds to that seen in those 50 years younger.

When it comes to deaths from Covid a fully vaccinated 80-year-old has a similar risk to an unvaccinated 50-year-old.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/22/rates-of-double-jabbed-people-in-hospital-will-grow-but-that-does-not-mean-covid-vaccines-are-failing

 

No problem with any of that.

 

Which is why I’m happy to get my second jab, due tomorrow.

 

 

[Kevin Taylor]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Lockdowns are demonstrated to work.

 

Your assertion that I blame people suffering the hardships of lockdowns or take the moral high ground to do so is unfounded.

 

I’m doing my bit, getting vaccinated, following the public health guidelines and encouraging others to do likewise.

 

What are you doing to hasten the end of this public health emergency?

Me personally ? I have taken responsibility for my own health, exercising daily trying to get vitamin d from the sun, lose weight, eat better etc. I will take a jab when I can get it, apart from that what am I supposed to do ? 

I've adhered to all the restrictions from day one, what I can't do is be a cheerleader for them, it seems doing something extreme like lockdowns is attractive to governments because it gives the appearance that they are doing something definitive and appear powerful and in control, an effort to deflect from their own mismanagement and lack of understanding of the situation.

Look after your own health is all you can if you do that it doesn't matter who is out after curfew or hasn't had a jab or isn't wearing their mask properly.

[Andycoops]

Don't mind at all but as I can't get a vaccine here in the depths of Isaan, if any business asks me, I'll take my custom elsewhere, if possible.

[placeholder]

34 minutes ago, djayz said:

Yes, those northern Europeans do tend to be a little more rational. It must be the cold. 

Yes, those Norwegians, Danes, Finns, and Icelanders do tend to be more rational. Sweden is the unfortunate exception.

[placeholder]

11 minutes ago, Kevin Taylor said:

Me personally ? I have taken responsibility for my own health, exercising daily trying to get vitamin d from the sun, lose weight, eat better etc. I will take a jab when I can get it, apart from that what am I supposed to do ? 

I've adhered to all the restrictions from day one, what I can't do is be a cheerleader for them, it seems doing something extreme like lockdowns is attractive to governments because it gives the appearance that they are doing something definitive and appear powerful and in control, an effort to deflect from their own mismanagement and lack of understanding of the situation.

Look after your own health is all you can if you do that it doesn't matter who is out after curfew or hasn't had a jab or isn't wearing their mask properly.

I thrive largely on cholesterol and a refusal to take supplements of any kind. Unlike you, I do understand that I am just one sample in a potential sea of them and that my personal experience is insignificant scientifically speaking. And that what's past is not necessarily a prologue.

Edited August 30, 2021 by placeholder

[hugocnx]

On 8/29/2021 at 1:36 AM, richard_smith237 said:

WRONG... 

You don’t ‘still get covid by the way’ !!!  when vaccinated you have a far lesser chance of getting covid, and if you do, you have a far better probability of significantly reduced symptoms. 

No hoping about it - the results are fact. 

 

"what is the point of only allowing vaccinated people in restaurants?”

Because fully vaccinated people have a far less chance of being asymptomatic carriers, there is far less chance of further spread of the virus. 

So do tell me. the virus hops on a vaccinated person and thinks...oops this person is vaccinated, better not get inside and let's hop over to that other person there and try my luck again.

The vaccinated are still spreaders and as dangerous to other people as the unvaccinated are.

[fa lang 66]

7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The Daily Skeptic is a conspiracy website run by rightwing extremist. 

It`s not rightwing Chomper......it`s just right.

[Ryan754326]

12 hours ago, wensiensheng said:

12 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

More drama.

 

As for ‘The freedom of the individual should surpass everything else.’ 

 

Utter nonsense.

 

Your freedoms are founded on the past and continuing sacrifices of others.

 

Just go get the jab, you’ll only feel a small <deleted>.

I think there’s a lot of people out there, myself included, who have had the jab, but just don’t like where the level of surveillance is going. 
 

Once this system is in place, it will be here to stay, even if COVID completely disappears. Watch the seasonal flu become the next boogeyman, when it inevitably returns and kills a few hundred thousand a year, like it always did. 
 

It’s already started…

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1274355

I’ve never had a flu shot in my life, and I don’t remember anyone ever worrying about whether I had. My Grandma always got one every year, because her doctor told her it would most likely keep her from getting seriously ill, but nobody ever expected it to eradicate the flu. 
 

 

Quote

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Ryan754326
Reposted-delete this please

[Ryan754326]

12 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

More drama.

 

As for ‘The freedom of the individual should surpass everything else.’ 

 

Utter nonsense.

 

Your freedoms are founded on the past and continuing sacrifices of others.

 

Just go get the jab, you’ll only feel a small <deleted>.

I think there’s a lot of people out there, myself included, who have had the jab, but just don’t like where the level of surveillance is going. 
 

Once this system is in place, it will be here to stay, even if COVID completely disappears. Watch the seasonal flu become the next boogeyman, when it inevitably returns and kills a few hundred thousand a year, like it always did. 
 

It’s already started…

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1274355

I’ve never had a flu shot in my life, and I don’t remember anyone ever worrying about whether I had. My Grandma always got one every year, because her doctor told her it would most likely keep her from getting seriously ill, but nobody ever expected it to eradicate the flu. 

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, hugocnx said:

So do tell me. the virus hops on a vaccinated person and thinks...oops this person is vaccinated, better not get inside and let's hop over to that other person there and try my luck again.

The vaccinated are still spreaders and as dangerous to other people as the unvaccinated are.

"From end May to beginning July 2021 in England, where there has been a highly successful vaccination campaign with high vaccine uptake, infections were increasing exponentially driven by the Delta variant and high infection prevalence among younger, unvaccinated individuals despite double vaccination continuing to effectively reduce transmission. Although slower growth or declining prevalence may be observed during the summer in the northern hemisphere, increased mixing during the autumn in the presence of the Delta variant may lead to renewed growth, even at high levels of vaccination."

https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/handle/10044/1/90800

 

"One massive analysis of Delta transmission comes from the UK REACT-1 programme, led by a team at Imperial College London, which tests more than 100,000 UK volunteers every few weeks. The team ran Ct analyses for samples received in May, June and July, when Delta was rapidly replacing other variants to become the dominant driver of COVID-19 in the country. The results suggested that among people testing positive, those who had been vaccinated had a lower viral load on average than did unvaccinated people."

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02187-1

 

 

 

[wensiensheng]

19 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

I think there’s a lot of people out there, myself included, who have had the jab, but just don’t like where the level of surveillance is going. 
 

Once this system is in place, it will be here to stay, even if COVID completely disappears. Watch the seasonal flu become the next boogeyman, when it inevitably returns and kills a few hundred thousand a year, like it always did. 
 

It’s already started…

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1274355

I’ve never had a flu shot in my life, and I don’t remember anyone ever worrying about whether I had. My Grandma always got one every year, because her doctor told her it would most likely keep her from getting seriously ill, but nobody ever expected it to eradicate the flu. 

Once Covid has been around as long as the flu I doubt very much that there will be any surveillance whatsoever. Vaccines will be more effective and hospitalizations less and everybody will be bored with the whole thing.