Is Pattaya so bad?

[GrandPapillon]

18 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Good post.

 

As I have said before, in many ways, Thailand will be like the Nokia phone company.  They and a huge slice of market share, and eventually went broke.  

 

Booking for Colombia now ????

[newnative]

2 hours ago, JensenZ said:

These name brand shops target Thais too, and maninly Thais actually, who do like the products. They are the stores you'll see all over Thailand in the major shopping malls. Let's go through a few of the prominent ones which come to mind. H&M, CCdouble0, Jaspal, Misty Mynx, Aldo, Guess, Addidas, Puma, Nike, Apple, Samsung, Oppo... and many, many others. Do you think there aren't sufficient Thai people with money that can afford name brands? These stores would not exist if not for Thai customers. Here's a good example, Apple is bringing the new iPhone13 range to stores early this year (October ???? and the consensus is they will run out of units. That's not foreigners buy iPhones. We're talking about a range of cellphones costing 30k and up. Same thing with Samsung when the new lines come out.

 

Of course business is very low now as most shops have been closed for a long time due to lockdowns, but every mall is in the same boat in every part of Thailand. Pattaya cannot be singled out.

     What I found interesting was that when T21 opened in Pattaya several big chain stores, such as H&M and Uniqlo, which already had outlets just down the street at Central Festival, opened second outlets at T21.  Obviously, pre-covid, there was enough business from Thais, international visitors, and local expats to support second outlets.  Ditto for a number of smaller chain stores and chain restaurants. 

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, newnative said:

Obviously, pre-covid, there was enough business from Thais, international visitors, and local expats to support second outlets.  Ditto for a number of smaller chain stores and chain restaurants. 

I was of the belief quite a few stores were struggling in both venues (pre-Covid) and it did appear the shopping market had been saturated. Perhaps T21 did well at weekends as visiting Thais swamped the place, but was that enough? 

[newnative]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

I was of the belief quite a few stores were struggling in both venues (pre-Covid) and it did appear the shopping market had been saturated. Perhaps T21 did well at weekends as visiting Thais swamped the place, but was that enough? 

    I think most of the chain stores were doing ok at both malls, pre-covid.  I'm of the belief that if a chain store has one 'struggling' store in a town, it's unlikely they will open a second branch just down the street in the same town.  Pre-covid, in 2019, Thailand and Pattaya were attracting record numbers of visitors.  And, you need those big numbers to sustain T21-type enterprises, which rely on a large steady stream of both new and returning visitors.  

    Probably some of the small one-of-a-kind mom and pop stores on the side aisles at T21 were not doing that well--especially those in the remotest aisles.    Some people know what they are doing with retail, some do not.  With some of the mom and pops, my partner and I could tell they likely wouldn't make it simply because they did not have merchandise of enough variety in enough quantity to sell enough of it to make the rent.  With shopping malls, there is always a churn; one store opens, another store closes.  Some succeed, some fail.  That's business.  

[kinyara]

^ Just on the retail side I noticed that there is a vacant lot now next to the Apple store in Central, I can't remember which of the tech/mobile phone chains were there but I thought it's an interesting indicator.

[The Fugitive]

On 9/8/2021 at 6:26 PM, kennw said:

Pattaya, a good express road system to get there from Bangkok and to the airports. Hua Hin nice but a pain in the butt to get there and back, particularly weekends and holidays times.

Agree! Not been for a while but as a non-driver I found Pattaya lacking a modern and comfortable centralised coach (long distance bus) station. Also, only one train per day? 

[JensenZ]

On 9/26/2021 at 6:02 PM, newnative said:

     What I found interesting was that when T21 opened in Pattaya several big chain stores, such as H&M and Uniqlo, which already had outlets just down the street at Central Festival, opened second outlets at T21.  Obviously, pre-covid, there was enough business from Thais, international visitors, and local expats to support second outlets.  Ditto for a number of smaller chain stores and chain restaurants. 

Most of the big chains will probably survive. It's the small shops that have disappeared. I'm pretty sure they did some tough bargaining with the Mall management to get cheap or free rent, because they are the backbone of the malls.

[JensenZ]

12 hours ago, kinyara said:

^ Just on the retail side I noticed that there is a vacant lot now next to the Apple store in Central, I can't remember which of the tech/mobile phone chains were there but I thought it's an interesting indicator.

Unfortunately it's only an Apple reseller, not an Apple store. They won't be gong anywhere as Apple sells itself in good times and bad. In fact, due to covid, cell phones are more important than ever, becoming one of the sole sources of entertainment for most of the population.

[kinyara]

7 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Unfortunately it's only an Apple reseller, not an Apple store. They won't be gong anywhere as Apple sells itself in good times and bad. In fact, due to covid, cell phones are more important than ever, becoming one of the sole sources of entertainment for most of the population.

Yeah I wasn't talking about the Apple shop but whatever the store was next door.

[JensenZ]

On 9/27/2021 at 9:01 PM, kinyara said:

Yeah I wasn't talking about the Apple shop but whatever the store was next door.

The computer shops seem to be doing ok in general as everyone is at home online these days. They might have moved somewhere with cheaper rent. They have a lot of options right now. I noticed that a 7Eleven on the the corner of Khopai Road and Pattaya Tai 1 has become a Banana IT store (since last year).

[Leaver]

On 9/26/2021 at 3:36 PM, JensenZ said:

These name brand shops target Thais too, and maninly Thais actually, who do like the products.

 

Would that be the same Thai's coming to Pattaya that find the street food vendors on the beach a rip off?

 

On 9/26/2021 at 3:36 PM, JensenZ said:

Do you think there aren't sufficient Thai people with money that can afford name brands?

Pattaya is a tourist destination. These shops are paying top rent to be in Pattaya, all the while, Thailand / Pattaya can only attract cheap package holiday tourists from emerging economies.  

 

Walking through the malls here, pre covid, the mall, and the shops, but not the food halls, were empty.  

 

On 9/26/2021 at 3:36 PM, JensenZ said:

These stores would not exist if not for Thai customers.

Exist in Thailand, or in Pattaya?  I am specifically talking about the Pattaya. 

 

On 9/26/2021 at 3:36 PM, JensenZ said:

Here's a good example, Apple is bringing the new iPhone13 range to stores early this year (October ???? and the consensus is they will run out of units.

Depends on the amount of units, doesn't it?

 

On 9/26/2021 at 3:36 PM, JensenZ said:

Of course business is very low now as most shops have been closed for a long time due to lockdowns, but every mall is in the same boat in every part of Thailand. Pattaya cannot be singled out.

They had no customers pre covid.    

 

Take the banks and telco's out of Central and T21 and there would be very little pedestrian traffic, pre covid.  

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Leaver

[Leaver]

On 9/26/2021 at 6:02 PM, newnative said:

     What I found interesting was that when T21 opened in Pattaya several big chain stores, such as H&M and Uniqlo, which already had outlets just down the street at Central Festival, opened second outlets at T21.  Obviously, pre-covid, there was enough business from Thais, international visitors, and local expats to support second outlets.  Ditto for a number of smaller chain stores and chain restaurants. 

Unless the plan is to move to cheaper rent T21 (if that is the case) and walk away from Central when the lease is up.  

[JensenZ]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

Would that be the same Thai's coming to Pattaya that find the street food vendors on the beach a rip off?

 

Pattaya is a tourist destination. These shops are paying top rent to be in Pattaya, all the while, Thailand / Pattaya can only attract cheap package holiday tourists from emerging economies.  

 

Walking through the malls here, pre covid, the mall, and the shops, but not the food halls, were empty.  

 

Exist in Thailand, or in Pattaya?  I am specifically talking about the Pattaya. 

 

Depends on the amount of units, doesn't it?

 

They had no customers pre covid.    

 

Take the banks and telco's out of Central and T21 and there would be very little pedestrian traffic, pre covid.  

 

You must have had some fun separating all my comments. Most of these brand outlets are targeted for Thais and only exist if there are Thai customers. You see the same outlets in Bangkok Malls that seem deserted too, but they continue to exist, year after year. Some go out of business, but most of the ones I mentioned have been around for many years. Have you ever seen a busy Calvin Klein store anywhere in Thailand? What a mystery it must be - they continue to exist in Pattaya and Bangkok Malls. What happens after covid is anyone's guess, but everyone is in the same boat.

 

Is it possible that you spend all your time at street food vendors, so you don't really know what is going on in malls?

 

Apple phones will be delivered in the same numbers they were delivered every other year and possibly even more volume. The point is that they make plenty of sales of expensive phones in Thailand and will continue to do so. There is still plenty of money around.

 

T21 will continue to exist post covid. People have been talking about the demise of Central and now T21 since they were both opened.

 

[Leaver]

39 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

they continue to exist in Pattaya

Existing is one thing, being profitable is another.

 

39 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Is it possible that you spend all your time at street food vendors, so you don't really know what is going on in malls?

 

No.  That comment was in relation to a recent thread.

 

 

39 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

here is still plenty of money around.

Who's money is it?  Thailand has record household debt.  Massive defaults are imminent.  

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/business/40003002

 

39 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

T21 will continue to exist post covid.

Of course.  It's not going to fall down.  It's actually looking good to be turned into a casino in the future.  

 

39 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

People have been talking about the demise of Central and now T21 since they were both opened.

The buildings will still continue to stand, however, as long as Thailand targets Chinese, Indians and Russians, how long do the think the shops inside these malls can continue to bleed money?  

 

There's just not enough wealthy Thai's to go around for all of these shops.  

Edited October 2, 2021 by Leaver

[shdmn]

On 9/28/2021 at 10:00 PM, JensenZ said:

The computer shops seem to be doing ok in general as everyone is at home online these days. They might have moved somewhere with cheaper rent. They have a lot of options right now. I noticed that a 7Eleven on the the corner of Khopai Road and Pattaya Tai 1 has become a Banana IT store (since last year).

Not so sure about that.  Apparently Tukcom is a ghost town.  Almost all the computer shops and cell phone booths are gone I am told.

Edited October 2, 2021 by shdmn

[JensenZ]

20 hours ago, shdmn said:

Not so sure about that.  Apparently Tukcom is a ghost town.  Almost all the computer shops and cell phone booths are gone I am told.

I'm pretty sure computer sales are fine irrespective of what you see in Tukcom. That centre was fading before covid. There's no need to go there to buy a computer - all the malls have outlets that are much more pleasant to shop at. The phone booth touters probably put a lot of people off too.

[JensenZ]

20 hours ago, Leaver said:

 The buildings will still continue to stand, however, as long as Thailand targets Chinese, Indians and Russians, how long do the think the shops inside these malls can continue to bleed money?  

 

There's just not enough wealthy Thai's to go around for all of these shops.  

Obviously everyone is suffering due to covid except maybe the super wealthy who continue to increase their wealth while the rest suffer.

 

We know one thing for sure, the investors in T21 are still bullish looking ahead as they wouldn't be constructing a new parking building in the middle of the pandemic if they weren't. Life will go on. Even if tourism takes many years to recover, Pattaya should be seen as another Thai city that will survive, including the malls, without tourism, as all the cities up the coast do. How do these malls with the same outlets survive in non-Tourist cities all over Thailand? Pattaya will change, but it's not going anywhere. There are still plenty of Thai people that live here.

Edited October 3, 2021 by JensenZ

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, JensenZ said:

We know one thing for sure, the investors in T21 are still bullish looking ahead as they wouldn't be constructing a new parking building in the middle of the pandemic if they weren't.

Or perhaps they are trying to right a wrong they initially did not consider. 

[newnative]

12 hours ago, JensenZ said:

Obviously everyone is suffering due to covid except maybe the super wealthy who continue to increase their wealth while the rest suffer.

 

We know one thing for sure, the investors in T21 are still bullish looking ahead as they wouldn't be constructing a new parking building in the middle of the pandemic if they weren't. Life will go on. Even if tourism takes many years to recover, Pattaya should be seen as another Thai city that will survive, including the malls, without tourism, as all the cities up the coast do. How do these malls with the same outlets survive in non-Tourist cities all over Thailand? Pattaya will change, but it's not going anywhere. There are still plenty of Thai people that live here.

      It was my understanding that the new parking garage is a joint project between T21 and Pattaya City.  Pattaya City wants more parking near Pattaya Beach in this popular area for holiday weekends and special events that draw locals and other visitors with cars.  T21 gets more parking when needed.  It seems like a win-win for both. 

     

[Dene16]

On 9/18/2021 at 1:16 PM, newnative said:

Okey dokey.  Enjoy your weekend--wherever you call home.

Please, Please don't answer any more of his comments. i can't take reading any more of his dribble

[jacko45k]

35 minutes ago, newnative said:

      It was my understanding that the new parking garage is a joint project between T21 and Pattaya City.  Pattaya City wants more parking near Pattaya Beach in this popular area for holiday weekends and special events that draw locals and other visitors with cars.  T21 gets more parking when needed.  It seems like a win-win for both. 

     

Just needs a flyover from Sukhumvit or the motorway, directly into the car park now. 

[mahjongguy]

On 9/19/2021 at 7:48 AM, Gottfrid said:

When I find myself in that situation I either stop the discussion or admit that I am wrong.

Then I suggest you ease up on the dubious pedantics, take a short break, spend the time to learn the difference between the neighborhoods in the Pattaya area versus the political divisions. For example, why do some of us live under the administration of City Hall and others report to the Banglamung amphur office north on Sukhumvit? It's kinda confusing but it's interesting, more so than than arguing whether Pratumnak Hill is the division between somewhere and somewhere else.   

[Gottfrid]

3 hours ago, mahjongguy said:

Then I suggest you ease up on the dubious pedantics, take a short break, spend the time to learn the difference between the neighborhoods in the Pattaya area versus the political divisions. For example, why do some of us live under the administration of City Hall and others report to the Banglamung amphur office north on Sukhumvit? It's kinda confusing but it's interesting, more so than than arguing whether Pratumnak Hill is the division between somewhere and somewhere else.   

What division? What is between somewhere and somewhere? Just come back when you have something to contribute with. Never talked about any political divisions. What I started saying was that you can not say that 1 person lives in Pattaya and another in Jomtien. They both live in Pattaya. When you can change that, please quote me again.

[mahjongguy]

2 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

What I started saying was that you can not say that 1 person lives in Pattaya and another in Jomtien. They both live in Pattaya.

You are correct to say that Jomtien is part (a subset) of Pattaya, but that is only in legal and administrative terms. Those of us who live in the greater Pattaya area, when we are speaking to each other in a natural and effective way, refer to Jomtien and Pattaya as two distinct places. We may or may not get specific and say North Pattaya or whatever. 

 

To insist that we speak or write per the dictums of mathematical set theory is really disagreeable.

[Gottfrid]

3 hours ago, mahjongguy said:

You are correct to say that Jomtien is part (a subset) of Pattaya, but that is only in legal and administrative terms. Those of us who live in the greater Pattaya area, when we are speaking to each other in a natural and effective way, refer to Jomtien and Pattaya as two distinct places. We may or may not get specific and say North Pattaya or whatever. 

 

To insist that we speak or write per the dictums of mathematical set theory is really disagreeable.

up to you. What I post is the facts. Sorry!

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

up to you. What I post is the facts. Sorry!

Hard to get over the past... a trip to the Beach in Jomtien in my early Pattaya days involved a trip through land without buildings, up over the hill and down... always felt like a separate village. 

[Gottfrid]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Hard to get over the past...

Seems to be the whole state, and dysfunction, of this forum. ????????

[Leaver]

On 10/3/2021 at 7:05 PM, JensenZ said:

We know one thing for sure, the investors in T21 are still bullish looking ahead as they wouldn't be constructing a new parking building in the middle of the pandemic if they weren't.

 

Does being bullish make them correct?  Does being bullish mean it's a good investment?  Perhaps it's a bubble.  

 

On 10/3/2021 at 7:05 PM, JensenZ said:

Even if tourism takes many years to recover, Pattaya should be seen as another Thai city that will survive, including the malls, without tourism, as all the cities up the coast do.

 

Pattaya has high rents.  How many businesses here hold on for tourism to recover?

[Lucky Bones]

On 9/8/2021 at 10:13 PM, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

Re photos: That's a beautiful spot, man. Nice balance, city and country. 

That looks like the 2 bedroom house next to my house. Amazing.

[CharlieH]

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