Non o visa based on marriage renew problem

[raptorea]

Just went for my 3rd year renewal and once again had issues but I finally after going back and forth for a week got my 30 under consideration stamp. I am really considering getting a law firm to help me going forward. Here is my issue and it starts with when I first came to Thailand I brought my marriage certificate from the courthouse where we got married in the USA and then I went to the USA embassy in Bangkok to do an affidavit saying my statement was true and listed the application number from the marriage cert had the affidavit only translated because that is all the usa embassy would stamp then sent to the Thai MFA in Bangkok to be stamped. Then I took that document to my local amphur office to register and get the kor ror 22. Keep in mind the marriage cert was not translated yet or stamped by the Thai MFA. So I decided to order a copy of my marriage cert from the bureau of vital statistics and hired a firm to legalize the doc in the Usa which was done but the State file number did not match the number on the certificate I from the courthouse the application number which I used at the USA embassy in Bangkok is not listed anywhere on the copy I got from the  bureau of vital stat all the information correct but the file number is different for some reason when it came from that department from Florida. So this time after having problems with immigration about not having a stamped translated copy om marriage cert I showed them the marriage cert that was legalized from the USA Department of state and The Thai embassy in the USA. But my local immigration wanted a translated Thai copy of everything from the USA so I went to the consular office in UBON and got the translated legalized document stamped then went back to immigration and they said that the marriage certificate numbers did not match and I explained that one came from the courthouse and one came from a different department from the state and said the kor ror 22 had to match the legalized copy so we went to amphur to get the kor ror 22 changed and amphur said they could not change it because once it it done it is done forever. However they put an extra paragraph on an additional page listing the other certificate number and the local immigration said ok and gave me my 30 day stamp. I just worry next year a different IO will see the two different numbers again and will raise a stink? Do I need to get the one legalized if it can be done that matches the kor ror 22 or can that even be done? I am tired of fighting every year. I have been married for over 13 years and have a 8 year old daughter with my wife and worry one day I will not be able to keep on getting my non o based on marriage anymore. Would a visa lawyer be able to resolve all this? I am open to any suggestions. Thank you 

[Eibot]

Marry under Thai Law. 

 

Took us 40 minutes many years ago. 

 

Then you're all done with this legalizing stuff. 

[raptorea]

9 minutes ago, Eibot said:

Marry under Thai Law. 

 

Took us 40 minutes many years ago. 

 

Then you're all done with this legalizing stuff. 

So you are saying that even though I already got married in USA, I can get remarried here in Thailand then start taking the Thai marriage certificate to immigration every year for my renew? 

[Eibot]

22 minutes ago, raptorea said:

So you are saying that even though I already got married in USA, I can get remarried here in Thailand then start taking the Thai marriage certificate to immigration every year for my renew? 

Yeah. I wouldn't even bother telling the Thai authorities that you are already married in the US. Just sign the paperwork here and it will safe you a whole bunch of worrying. 

[raptorea]

5 minutes ago, Eibot said:

Yeah. I wouldn't even bother telling the Thai authorities that you are already married in the US. Just sign the paperwork here and it will safe you a whole bunch of worrying. 

I am not sure I have a Usa marriage certificate registered at my local amphur and have been to my local immigration office for 3 years. How can you not bother telling them let alone all info is on computers and paper backup stored in books. No disrespect but I prefer to follow proper law. Thank you   

[Eibot]

4 minutes ago, raptorea said:

I am not sure I have a Usa marriage certificate registered at my local amphur and have been to my local immigration office for 3 years. How can you not bother telling them let alone all info is on computers and paper backup stored in books. No disrespect but I prefer to follow proper law. Thank you   

Just tell them you are married in your country but like to get married for Thai law as well. As you might expect, they prefer this. 

[Myran]

1 hour ago, Eibot said:

Yeah. I wouldn't even bother telling the Thai authorities that you are already married in the US. Just sign the paperwork here and it will safe you a whole bunch of worrying. 

Pretty sure he has to get an affirmation of freedom to marry from his embassy, which I doubt they'll issue considering he's already married. I'm no expert, though, so I might be wrong.

[Eibot]

39 minutes ago, Myran said:

Pretty sure he has to get an affirmation of freedom to marry from his embassy, which I doubt they'll issue considering he's already married. I'm no expert, though, so I might be wrong.

I'm also not expect by any change. However, I was in a similar situation (married in Netherlands) and fixed it by marrying in TH and it was no issue whatsoever. Dont forget TIT, and everything goes. 

[Aforek]

4 hours ago, Myran said:

Pretty sure he has to get an affirmation of freedom to marry from his embassy, which I doubt they'll issue considering he's already married. I'm no expert, though, so I might be wrong.

Yes, maybe no problem for Thai autorities, but what about the embassy ? they need a document which attests you are not married already ( and you are, even with the same person ), and MFA will do nothing if they don't have the embassy's paper 

[Lite Beer]

You cannot marry twice.

[xr399]

Had a related problem last February renewing visa based on marriage (which I have been doing since 2008 with few problems) most done at Hua Hin Immigration, but this was the third time after having moved to Pathum Thani. I had all the required documents, with translations where needed (same as the document package that the approved for the 2 previous years, but was refused. 

I had the exact same form letter that the Canadian Embassy BKK still provides certifying my 'income', and stamped by MFA.  After asking why, the new Immigration Officer said you income MUST BE FROM PENSION SOURCES ONLY. 

At the CDN Embassy, I had provided my original Canadian Government tax documents for my 3 pensions and my Canadian Bank statements as backup for that, all reported income, was pension income and exceeded the required minimum!  Complaining to the 'new' head of Pathum Thani Immigration brought the same reply!

 

I went back to the CDN Embassy and asked the very helpful and pleasant Thai agent (whom I have dealt with for years) if she could add the word "pension" before "income", she checked with her supervisor and said "sorry, this is a form letter that we use for all income certification requests and can not be changed".  She also said "I have never heard of this certification letter being refused."

She then (gratiously) gave me her business card with her personal direct phone number on it, and told me to go back to Pathum Thani Imm and ask the agent to speak directly to me by phone, and I will tell them it is all pension income... 

 

Back to PTImm, talk to same officer, she says, "Sorry I can not do that" and tells me to put 400k in a Thai bank and gives me a covid extension for 1900 baht. Since I was not prepared to do that, I was able to use another Immigration location to secure 1 year extension, although not at the regular listed price ☹????

 

P. S.  The nice lady at CDN Embassy also said that they are planning to 'phase out' issuing the income certification letter within the next 18 months...  seems my tenure here is going to end soon.

[Andycoops]

16 hours ago, Eibot said:

Marry under Thai Law. 

 

Took us 40 minutes many years ago. 

 

Then you're all done with this legalizing stuff. 

He is already legally married and you cannot, as far as I know, be legally married twice to the same person, in most countries around the world including Thailand.

[bookstore]

10 hours ago, Aforek said:

Yes, maybe no problem for Thai autorities, but what about the embassy ? they need a document which attests you are not married already ( and you are, even with the same person ), and MFA will do nothing if they don't have the embassy's paper 

There is a Lawyer across the street from the American Embassy TSL the lawyers name is David Lam talk to him. I had some problems getting married here in Thailand and he fixed everything

[Headgame]

9 hours ago, Lite Beer said:

You cannot marry twice.

Yes you can marry twice. The second marriage would be a legal nullity. However, the best way is to get married here in TH and just like having two passports, use the marriage certificate that is most appropriate. Highly unlikely that you will have any issues either in TH or the US.

[raptorea]

1 minute ago, Headgame said:

Yes you can marry twice. The second marriage would be a legal nullity. However, the best way is to get married here in TH and just like having two passports, use the marriage certificate that is most appropriate. Highly unlikely that you will have any issues either in TH or the US.

So you can get married in Thailand get a Thai marriage certificate go to local Amphur and get a Kor Ror 3 instead of the Kor Ror 22 that I have now and that would better to use at the Thai immigration then my USA marriage certificate and Kor Ror 22?  Thank you

[Raymonddiaz]

You can get an extension based on having a Thai child. Easier I guess.

[raptorea]

1 minute ago, Raymonddiaz said:

You can get an extension based on having a Thai child. Easier I guess.

I am not sure will have to research that. The only issue will be one day my child wont be a child anymore and will be an adult.

[lopburi3]

1.  To get married in Thailand you must provide proof you are not married or divorced in the form of an affidavit from your Embassy which must then be officially registered as a legal document in Thailand at MFA.  In the case of USA this is your signed statement.  

2.  To lie on an American affidavit would be a federal offence.  Could get bad.

3.  To lie on a document being registered with the MFA (fill in the blanks - would likely not be a pretty picture).

4.  Official divorce/re-marriage could work but probably more work/expense than just going through the hoops.  Over age 50 could change to retirement extensions with financials.

[khunjeff]

25 minutes ago, raptorea said:

So you can get married in Thailand get a Thai marriage certificate go to local Amphur and get a Kor Ror 3 instead of the Kor Ror 22 that I have now and that would better to use at the Thai immigration then my USA marriage certificate and Kor Ror 22?  Thank you

What is being suggested to you is illegal. In order to follow this suggestion, you would have to swear a false affidavit at the US Embassy (stating that you are free to marry, when you are not) and then falsely tell Thai authorities that you are currently unmarried. Would you probably get away with it? Yes, probably. Would you be breaking the laws of two countries? Yes, definitely. 

[raptorea]

2 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

1.  To get married in Thailand you must provide proof you are not married or divorced in the form of an affidavit from your Embassy which must then be officially registered as a legal document in Thailand at MFA.  In the case of USA this is your signed statement.  

2.  To lie on an American affidavit would be a federal offence.  Could get bad.

3.  To lie on a document being registered with the MFA (fill in the blanks - would likely not be a pretty picture).

4.  Official divorce/re-marriage could work but probably more work/expense than just going through the hoops.  Over age 50 could change to retirement extensions with financials.

Best to just hire a law firm and be done with it. They have a lot of contacts on the inside and get more done than some nobody like me.

[Aforek]

1 hour ago, bookstore said:

There is a Lawyer across the street from the American Embassy TSL the lawyers name is David Lam talk to him. I had some problems getting married here in Thailand and he fixed everything

I didn't speak for me, I am already married ; what you say about a lawyer is not possible with my embassy ( France ) : they ask an original birth certificate , no older than three months ( no e-mail, by post ) , because married or dead are written on the birth certificate ; if not married, nothing is written, if married, date of mariage ( or divorce  )  is written ) ; impossible to cheat and a lawyer can't do nothing 

[digger70]

18 hours ago, raptorea said:

I am not sure I have a Usa marriage certificate registered at my local amphur and have been to my local immigration office for 3 years. How can you not bother telling them let alone all info is on computers and paper backup stored in books. No disrespect but I prefer to follow proper law. Thank you   

If all else fails ,the easy way out is to get the extension based on Retirement.

[Eibot]

9 hours ago, Andycoops said:

He is already legally married and you cannot, as far as I know, be legally married twice to the same person, in most countries around the world including Thailand.

Legally maybe not, however they didn't enforce it with us at all. Again, TIT, everything goes.

[Eibot]

7 hours ago, khunjeff said:

What is being suggested to you is illegal. In order to follow this suggestion, you would have to swear a false affidavit at the US Embassy (stating that you are free to marry, when you are not) and then falsely tell Thai authorities that you are currently unmarried. Would you probably get away with it? Yes, probably. Would you be breaking the laws of two countries? Yes, definitely. 

Maybe a US thing. I never had to get such form from my embassy.

[BritTim]

13 minutes ago, Eibot said:

Maybe a US thing. I never had to get such form from my embassy.

The point is that amphurs have been obliged to demand that you show an affirmation of freedom to marry from your embassy in Thailand before you can be legally married in Thailand.  If you were really able to get an official Thai marriage certificate without showing such an affirmation, I am extremely surprised.

[lopburi3]

7 hours ago, Eibot said:

Maybe a US thing. I never had to get such form from my embassy.

Not a US thing - it is required of all nationalities for decades to register a marriage (official) at a District Office in Thailand.  

[ubonjoe]

7 hours ago, Eibot said:

Maybe a US thing. I never had to get such form from my embassy.

You might not of gotten it from embassy if from a country that requires you to get it there. 

[MJCM]

10 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Not a US thing - it is required of all nationalities for decades to register a marriage (official) at a District Office in Thailand.  

+1

 

I am (I think) from the same country as @Eibot and when we got married (here in Thailand) approx 10 years ago, the "affirmation of freedom to marry" was one of the documents needed from my Embassy. We then had to have it translated in Thai and then off to the MFA (Ministry of Foreign Affairs) to have it stamped that it was a genuine document. After that we could go to the Amphur and get married!

[brianthainess]

Sort of saying this as a joke but, get a divorcee and re-marry.

 

[brianthainess]

When I married I went to 'my' embassy for the Freedom of marriage doc. I have duel citizenship, when i showed my 'Divorce' doc. I was told but you got divorced in your home country, so you need to go to that embassy  i said "Oh no, but i'm here on this passport and my divorce was 30yrs ago! "   they said "well ok then it should be OK" and signed / stamped the Document.  Am I living in sin ?