All the issues with Thailand

[1FinickyOne]

2 hours ago, Boarn said:

That's not quite true, the issue is not not being able to afford something, it's that you can't get that same thrill than you could. Yes things change but as a 16 year old I found Thailand as I wished it to remain, I had no idea it would change so much away from where I found it. Change but don't transform is what I'm trying to say.

How many places haven't changed? Why would you expect any place to be the same as your childhood memories... ?? Not sure exactly what the difference is between changing and transforming? Has your home country not changed - in - - how many years? 

 

And, well, you mostly complained about the cost of things.. I remember going to a friends birthday party when we were 12 and they gave us $1 for our lunch at a local famous hotdog++ place... For $1, I got a hamburger, a hotdog and fries and an ice cream sundae... 

[FritsSikkink]

42 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I get the impression that some posters never leave Bkk.

I agree with everything except your comment about the sky train as I don't know why it would be a good thing.

I think it is a good think that you can use a good network of public transport.

[1FinickyOne]

2 hours ago, Boarn said:

you can't get that same thrill than you could. Yes things change but as a 16 year old

not sure how old you are now, but unless you can go back to being 15, you are not likely to experience the world as a 16 yr old again... 

[4MyEgo]

3 hours ago, Boarn said:

Haha, if only that were true.

 

This is not a money issue, it's a feeling issue, I have more than I did when I arrived but feel worse off. The issue is the feeling you get when you can do certain things for pennies. 

 

I got a kick out of going out and doing everything I wanted for pocket change, it just doesn't feel the same when you're paying actual money for it.

 

70k baht a month in 2005, 135k baht a month now, take me back to 2005 it was a better time.

I spend 70k baht a month for a family of 6, now that to me is cheap, we eat very well, this includes ALL insurances, car, bike, schools, although we are in a village in Isaan, which is where we prefer to be.

 

The beauty of the last 6 years living here is that not that the cost of living has increased, it is still very affordable when comparing it back to my homeland.

 

For starters, to build a house back there like this house would cost me 10 times more, plus the same for the land and it would be half the size, if that.

 

Car registration, water and council rates and insurances would be much more expensive as would electricity.

 

Thailand is cheap and there are bargains to be had if you search for it, that said, I look at the value here vs back in the homeland and we are far better off here, yes immigration is a pain, the xenophobia is a pain, there are pains here and back there because the homeland also has bureaucracy issues, not to mention the amount of speed cameras, fixed cameras etc etc, no point system here, cheap fines.

 

Sounds to me your getting bored as you age, even though you say you have money that I don't doubt, but like I said, there are things that are cheap here if you look for them, I love the fact that labour is cheap when I get someone to do a job at the house as opposed to fearing the loss of an arm.  

 

Thailand is not perfect by fat, but its cheap to live and if you have money, it's even cheaper, that said, everyone has to maintain a budget and 70k baht a month works for me, although I could increase it, there is no need to waste it, i.e. unless I want to spoil myself and buy me some take away eye-candy, pre-Covid ????

[zzaa09]

4 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

???? Sounds like your thinking about  it. 

Since 2003 when our house was built things have improved no end for us where we live. 

 

You opinion seems based mainly on one place Bangkok and some islands there's much more to Thailand, I wouldn't live in Bkk if you pay me. 

I would say some people still find things OK there only the pandemic has mess things up. 

For some, unfortunately, that's all they know - Farang Ghettos and their supposed comfort. 

 

For the OP and others, I'll add #16: whinging Farang and their fanciful manner.

[473geo]

In answer to the OPs question, I recently moved here 6 months now. 

I spent many years as a single guy taking in the many delights of Thailand party lifestyle. When enjoyed to the full, and of course noting the changes over time mainly to my preferred destination Phuket, I married and began part two of my plan to retire in Thailand. 

15 years and one son one daughter later here I am.

Modest home all paid for a long while ago, dropped on a bit of overtime at work ???? have an old truck, repairs are very affordable so did not feel the need for a 'showey' new truck, instead bought some land for my family where we now run 4 cattle, from a farming background this is a hobby my wife and I share.

So settling in, read up over the years on immigration docs, working in an office admin role made things easy to understand. However my wife has organised extensions so far and we are well positioned for my extension for a year shortly. I have noticed with Thai on Thai there is a certain 'get it right' attitude and perhaps just a little more 'understanding' well appears to be working for me ????

Well here I am in part two of my life having worked and had much fun in part one. Part two is a different type of enjoyment, still always learning adapting, that doesn't change, being a family man now is fun, challenging, but rewarding.

Yes I am here and so far the level of expectancy is met, on occasion exceeded.

Just lucky I guess ????

[Orac]

I have real issues with the way they put rubber bands on plastic bags here so i cannot open them and end up cutting the off with scissors.

 

it used to be far worse with similar problems for carrier bags which ended up with knots in the top but, since they banned them, my stress levels have improved significantly.

[dj230]

I was also surprised by some of the prices for things here, pretty much similar to prices in Canada, I have no clue who would actually pay those prices in Thailand. Probably foreigners starting business' hoping they can charge the same prices in other countries, I wonder if the business is any good.

 

Living expenses, food (if bought at the right places), internet/mobile service, are all fairly cheap. I only about 30% compared to what I would in Canada living the same lifestyle so I am happy.

 

 

 

 

[ChristianBlessing]

6 hours ago, Boarn said:

So, I was sold a lie, bought in hook line and sinker and have been yearning for this ever since. You simply can't have the same thrill when things aren't dirt cheap.

How were "sold a lie"? What lie? It seems that Bangkok 16 years ago, when you arrived, was just as you would have hoped.

 

It would seem the biggest change in 16 years is simply that you're 16 years older. We change, things change - happens to all of us.

[Gottfrid]

Only 15 points after 16 years experience???? I am disappointed at you!

[thaitom]

1 hour ago, Orac said:

I have real issues with the way they put rubber bands on plastic bags here so i cannot open them and end up cutting the off with scissors.

 

it used to be far worse with similar problems for carrier bags which ended up with knots in the top but, since they banned them, my stress levels have improved significantly.

oh god yes! I thought I was the only one that got <deleted> off trying to get the bags open.

[chalawaan]

No need to "go home" or anyplace else, just get stoned.

The weed's improving -not much else is- but who cares! ????

Edited September 21, 2021 by chalawaan

[StreetCowboy]

If you can’t have the same thrill when things are not dirt cheap any more you have not managed your career very well. 

[zzaa09]

I'm finding all this quite amusing - the promotion of the romantic times and the good old days applying to the early 2000s. ????

Naive newbies from their respective generations.????

 

Take it from an old timer - the real good old days were the 1970s......perhaps into the early 80s.

Wax upon that.

 

 

 

[chalawaan]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I didn't like it. I never got to see the appeal, but I only ever got to visit the new place. Apparently the original was better.

I never saw or even knew there was an "original", but I did visit here in the early days of digital cameras, you could get a curious lass to agree to "two-time for B1000 with "movie"." they were fascinated by seeing the instant pictures on the back of the camera, and it goaded them on to greater debauchery, now they have selfie addictions and you're lucky if their eyes leave their own screens to acknowledge your presence. I'm a technology and progress fan, but ubiquitous devices have changed human behaviour for the worse of late. People have the sum of all human knowledge in their hand, and many have somehow managed to become dumber! Refer to the politics of Covid conspiracies for an example. I miss the days when technology had only one purpose -dirty pictures!

[chalawaan]

15 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

If you can’t have the same thrill when things are not dirt cheap any more you have not managed your career very well. 

Have you been to a decent German FKK club (no that's not a dirty word sneaking in, it means "Freikorperkultur" or Free body culture or Naturism) it's a family thing in Germany but has also has been co-opted by Gentlemens clubs there, and the best ones leave Nana in the dust. The problem is that prices here are close to there now, with NO justification when you've added up all the scams like lady drinks, barf-fines, a poor general attitude, and silly service fees "B4000" a Thai general doesnt make that in a week (officially anuway) ! in Germany the fun starts at Eur 50 and that base price get you where you want to be in most cases. Did I mention bare-naked ladies wandering about, from every continent -but no Thais! The inclusive BBQ, pool (in summer) all-day quality buffet, espresso coffee, and free German beer? 

[StreetCowboy]

4 minutes ago, chalawaan said:

Have you been to a decent German FKK club (no that's not a dirty word sneaking in, it means "Freikorperkultur" or Free body culture or Naturism) it's a family thing in Germany but has also has been co-opted by Gentlemens clubs there, and the best ones leave Nana in the dust. The problem is that prices here are close to there now, with NO justification when you've added up all the scams like lady drinks, barf-fines, a poor general attitude, and silly service fees "B4000" a Thai general doesnt make that in a week (officially anuway) ! in Germany the fun starts at Eur 50 and that base price get you where you want to be in most cases. Did I mention bare-naked ladies wandering about, from every continent -but no Thais! The inclusive BBQ, pool (in summer) all-day quality buffet, espresso coffee, and free German beer? 

So just to be clear, all you are grizzling about is the price?

And the poor beer and coffee in Nana Plaza?
You do know there is a Starbucks a couple of lanes down on the other side of the road that also sells imported beer, right? 

If you are going to complain that things here are not the same as Karlsruhe then maybe Krung Thep or Kilmarnock is not for you.

 

Places change; people change; if you move away, you can ignore both, but if you insist on coming back, you will find things different, and your experience different.

 

Like Rome, Bangkok is not what it used to be.

[chalawaan]

8 hours ago, Boarn said:

Requirements are the same for me, but very annoying to have to do, used to think it was a worthwhile hassle, now it's like why I am degrading myself like this?

That sleight of hand they did with the B800,000 where now you need a million a year minimum because of extended bank seasoning, and they basically help themselves to B400,000 of that sum as it can no longer be used to live on or your extension gets voided, that is one financial kick in the balls, and yet the silence from all expat retirees is deafening.

[chalawaan]

3 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

So just to be clear, all you are grizzling about is the price?

And the poor beer and coffee in Nana Plaza?
You do know there is a Starbucks a couple of lanes down on the other side of the road that also sells imported beer, right? 

If you are going to complain that things here are not the same as Karlsruhe then maybe Krung Thep or Kilmarnock is not for you.

 

Places change; people change; if you move away, you can ignore both, but if you insist on coming back, you will find things different, and your experience different.

 

Like Rome, Bangkok is not what it used to be.

No, to be clear, I'm saying that's part of the "bar" package in Germany. That's all inclusive. You pay Eur60 admission and stay until closing or if open 24 hours till that time has expired. The Eur 50 is between you and your squeeze. 

And the tired old  "maybe it's not for you" condescension masquerading as debate is lame as, please give it a rest! 

My post was primarily information sharing, not a dig at you, it was by extension also an observation that paying too much just because one can, frankly makes one look like a bit of a mug, and is part of the reason things here are not as good as they were. Dentistry here has not 10 x in price in my time here, so why should whores?

[Boarn]

3 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

For some, unfortunately, that's all they know - Farang Ghettos and their supposed comfort. 

 

For the OP and others, I'll add #16: whinging Farang and their fanciful manner.

Haha, farang ghetto. You move to a country usually in good faith, what's the point in moving if after a few years what you moved for doesn't exist. If I wasn't so entrenched I would be here, pre 2008 lower Sukhumvit was the best place ever, I now live in the countryside, still has some real Thailand left, this is no ghetto, well no farang ghetto.

[Boarn]

58 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

I'm finding all this quite amusing - the promotion of the romantic times and the good old days applying to the early 2000s. ????

Naive newbies from their respective generations.????

 

Take it from an old timer - the real good old days were the 1970s......perhaps into the early 80s.

Wax upon that.

 

 

 

Yes I bet they were, sadly I was not born until the late eighties, I wish nothing more than to experience a day in Bangkok back then.

[Boarn]

1 hour ago, StreetCowboy said:

If you can’t have the same thrill when things are not dirt cheap any more you have not managed your career very well. 

Not true, the thrill was the price and what people would do for basically nothing, they won't anymore.

[Boarn]

1 hour ago, ChristianBlessing said:

How were "sold a lie"? What lie? It seems that Bangkok 16 years ago, when you arrived, was just as you would have hoped.

 

It would seem the biggest change in 16 years is simply that you're 16 years older. We change, things change - happens to all of us.

The lie that Thailand was a cheap country for fun??

[StreetCowboy]

1 minute ago, Boarn said:

Not true, the thrill was the price and what people would do for basically nothing, they won't anymore.

It's great being able to abuse people because they are poor; you just need to keep looking for the unfortunate.  Surely that is the great challenge of it?

[bbko]

“The good old days” are just easier to “live” in and romanticize because they are over. There’s so much certainty in them. You already know what happens. You already know who’s who, what’s what, what means what and how the story “ends”.

The present demands that you engage with it and find comfort in not knowing the story (or how it ends).

 

[Boarn]

To clear up the confusion for people that don't seem to understand how things have changed for the worse.

 

Let's imagine there are 20 levels to life for example.

 

In 2005 as a UK expat I arrived with pretty much nothing and was already at level 10, whereas run of the mill Thais were at level 1. People at level 6, or 7 could have a great time all the time.

 

In 2021 I would say I am at level 13, reasonable house and car paid for and an OK salary, however the same Thai is now up at level 9, a lot closer in the scheme of things and having a good time all the time would require one to be up at level 15 or higher.

 

I have progressed but the the state of development here has caught up more than one would have forseen, this is the issue I'm talking about.

[Boarn]

6 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

It's great being able to abuse people because they are poor; you just need to keep looking for the unfortunate.  Surely that is the great challenge of it?

Harsh haha, abuse is maybe the wrong word.

[StreetCowboy]

1 minute ago, Boarn said:

To clear up the confusion for people that don't seem to understand how things have changed for the worse.

 

Let's imagine there are 20 levels to life for example.

 

In 2005 as a UK expat I arrived with pretty much nothing and was already at level 10, whereas run of the mill Thais were at level 1. People at level 6, or 7 could have a great time all the time.

 

In 2021 I would say I am at level 13, reasonable house and car paid for and an OK salary, however the same Thai is now up at level 9, a lot closer in the scheme of things and having a good time all the time would require one to be up at level 15 or higher.

 

I have progressed but the the state of development here has caught up more than one would have forseen, this is the issue I'm talking about.

That sounds absolutely great!  People are better off!

How could anyone possibly complain about that?

Unless it means you need to go somewhere else to find the impoverished unfortunates to abuse.

Well, times are hard if you want to live in the past.  Maybe you could adapt to the modern world?  Challenging, but possible...

[Tanomazu]

8 hours ago, Boarn said:

After being here for 16 years I thought it an idea to go over all the issues I see with Thailand, most of which were not here when I arrived.

 

To all those who say 'go home then', well there is far worse!

 

1. Bangkok is no longer Bangkok, all the best places are gone and new condos in place.

2. Overdevelopment at certain island retreats remove from the character. 

3. Cheap only if you liked being bored, yes it's cheaper to be bored in Thailand than bored back in the West.

4. Entertainment is so expensive, a night out in 'Bangkok' runs 4x to 5x want it did in 2005.

5. Houses for sale in developments usually come with no land.

6. Land prices are absurd.

7. Fun cars are too expensive.

8. The sky train in Bangkok is more than Mo Chit to On Nut.

9. Whimsical government schemes start to grate when related to foreigners.

10. A huge change in foreigner 'demographics'.

11. Inconsiderate neighbors, burning, cooking with wood, spraying trees with fertilizer etc.

12. Cheap only if you like pork or chicken, not cheap if you prefer beef and lamb.

13. The Thailand I moved to no longer exists in so many ways.

14. Annoyance of immigration rules which used to be a worthwhile yearly hassle now seem to be over burdensome for benefits accrued.

15. The playing field has shifted away from Western expats.

 

Well that's 15. For me, I moved to Thailand because I could be entertained for a tiny amount of money, this is no longer true.

 

Point in question, on I think my 2nd night here I went out for a meal in a lower Sukhumvit, a Western meal, looked at the menu and saw fish and chips for 69 baht. I assumed this must be a tiny portion and ended up ordering 3 meals and about 4 beers, the bill was 520 baht, just under 8 pound GBP. It turned out that these were real size meals and of course I ordered 2 meals too much, but I was hooked, I could live for pocket change, beers in the bars were a third of now and the workers were a lot more fun and expected far less in return. 

 

So, I was sold a lie, bought in hook line and sinker and have been yearning for this ever since. You simply can't have the same thrill when things aren't dirt cheap.

 

I have no idea what attracts people to Thailand now, if you've moved recently, why? I would genuinely like to know!

 

The problem is you have "perspective blinkers". You don't see things as they are. Only through a lens of what used to be.

 

Bangkok is still Bangkok. And if some of the places you liked have disappeared it's usually because they did not make money and nobody wanted to go there anymore. Moreover, many better places have appeared in Bangkok, CM and other places which did not exist when you first came 16 years ago.

 

I disagree that land prices are "absurd". They compare very favourably with many Western countries. You can easily get houses with decent amounts of land.

 

One could still go out, pre-Covid, for a fraction of the cost of what that night out would cost in New York or London or Paris. Of course prices go up over time, that is the case in every single place on earth.

 

You can still eat for 65 Baht in Thailand. Try getting a meal for that money in Western countries. Now, I would agree that overall Thailand is not much cheaper, if you eat Western food, obviously.

 

However, Thailand has many attractions that continue, and have not disappeared, eg Fantastic weather, much cheaper accommodation (ie you get more for the money), wide variety of dining options, far better shopping than any Western country (ie better shopping malls and the largest market in Asia for unique items), interesting Buddhist culture, graceful and polite people (who yes are not considerate as neighbours or drivers but at least will not spray graffiti everywhere and kill you for kicks).

 

Thailand is still exotic, and highly attractive.

 

 

[zzaa09]

18 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

It's great being able to abuse people because they are poor; you just need to keep looking for the unfortunate.  Surely that is the great challenge of it?

I guess low and shallow character has it's place.