Electric vehicles of all kinds

[LarrySR]

46 minutes ago, sirineou said:

If you are buying an electric vehicle to save money on gas, ask yourself, How much gas can you buy with the extra money you spend to get that EV. 

Admittedly, they are a bit expensive now but things soon change when the demand is there.

Renewables are getting cheaper while fossil fuels are always going up. 

Competitive forces will drive the battery costs down down down while the performance goes up up up.

 

Solar costs are decades ahead of the forecasts.

PV cells are technology and Moores law dictate they will get cheaper and better.

In 1976 a kilowatt of photovoltaic cells cost $75 but now it's 0.13 cents. 

 

Is it any wonder the fossil fuel industry is fighting the progress with a steady flow of propaganda disseminated thru right wing media & politicians.

"Windmills =BAD - Coal Mines =GOOD"

[seedy]

45 minutes ago, sirineou said:

If you are buying an electric vehicle to save money on gas, ask yourself, How much gas can you buy with the extra money you spend to get that EV. 

That is it in a nutshell.

Payback takes years. Too many, and how long will a small Chinese electric car last ? Long enough ? No idea. They are cheap for a reason.

Charging infrastructure takes years and years to build.

Takes a long time to upgrade a road - just imagine how long to increase power plant output (or build all those solar and wind farms people bleat on about) and run lines to all those stations.

For city use - small car like a Smart or a scooter - OK

The rest - What's in that pipe anyway ?

 

 

[sirineou]

24 minutes ago, seedy said:

That is it in a nutshell.

Payback takes years. Too many, and how long will a small Chinese electric car last ? Long enough ? No idea. They are cheap for a reason.

Charging infrastructure takes years and years to build.

Takes a long time to upgrade a road - just imagine how long to increase power plant output (or build all those solar and wind farms people bleat on about) and run lines to all those stations.

For city use - small car like a Smart or a scooter - OK

The rest - What's in that pipe anyway ?

 

 

So Haval is coming out with a nice EV  (Ora) about the size of a Toyota Yaris, maybe a bit larger, but with a lot ,more bells a whistles.

I Looked into it because I was impressed by the H6. The Ora  is priced at  over 1.2 m if what i read is correct. As I said 500-600 k can buy you a lot of gas.

And where are it's  batteries going to be in 10 years? especially in the heat of Thailand. 

We live in Khon Kaen , no way would we be able to drive to BKK with our a long recharging stop, And the trip we often take to Nong Khai would mean that when we get there we would need to recharge to get back. Is there a recharging station bear where we are going? or will we have to goto a recharging station on the other side of town and then take a taxi to our final destination, and then a taxi back? and what if the chargers are all occupied? do I sit there and wait for three hours?

No thanks, I don't think the system is ready for prime time in Thailand. Perhaps soon, but not yet, or perhaps as a second city car,but who wants to spend 1.2m for a second city car? Maybe a guy with money to burn but certainly not me. 

[LarrySR]

42 minutes ago, seedy said:

That is it in a nutshell.

Payback takes years. Too many, and how long will a small Chinese electric car last ? Long enough ? No idea. They are cheap for a reason.

Charging infrastructure takes years and years to build.

Takes a long time to upgrade a road - just imagine how long to increase power plant output (or build all those solar and wind farms people bleat on about) and run lines to all those stations.

For city use - small car like a Smart or a scooter - OK

The rest - What's in that pipe anyway ?

 

 

Investors might have done a bit more research than some guys on Thai VISA that consume propaganda from fossil fuel industry.

Let's take a look at the EV stock prices.

LI Auto +2,272%

BYD +1,748%

NIO +1,312%

TSLA +13,208%

[seedy]

30 minutes ago, LarrySR said:

 some guys on Thai VISA that consume propaganda from fossil fuel industry.

Kinda like some guys who consume propaganda from the EV industry.

If you have a calculator you can run the numbers yourself.

Mass adoption - It ain't happening anytime soon

[seedy]

57 minutes ago, sirineou said:

So Haval is coming out with a nice EV  (Ora) about the size of a Toyota Yaris, maybe a bit larger, but with a lot ,more bells a whistles.

I Looked into it because I was impressed by the H6. The Ora  is priced at  over 1.2 m if what i read is correct. As I said 500-600 k can buy you a lot of gas.

And where are it's  batteries going to be in 10 years? especially in the heat of Thailand. 

We live in Khon Kaen , no way would we be able to drive to BKK with our a long recharging stop, And the trip we often take to Nong Khai would mean that when we get there we would need to recharge to get back. Is there a recharging station bear where we are going? or will we have to goto a recharging station on the other side of town and then take a taxi to our final destination, and then a taxi back? and what if the chargers are all occupied? do I sit there and wait for three hours?

No thanks, I don't think the system is ready for prime time in Thailand. Perhaps soon, but not yet, or perhaps as a second city car,but who wants to spend 1.2m for a second city car? Maybe a guy with money to burn but certainly not me. 

I guess you and I do not have our "Fingers on the pulse" so to speak, and see thru all the lies, distortion from guys like Elon Musk, who made his fortune selling carbon tax credits, not producing and selling good cars.

The PT Barnum of our times.

Good to see that the number of sheep is increasing - sustains his business model

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

If you are buying an electric vehicle to save money on gas, ask yourself, How much gas can you buy with the extra money you spend to get that EV. 

I did that with my anticipated scooter purchase, and EV much cheaper, and less hassle of constant maintenance.  Same with EV car, if priced right.  MG EP for instance would be good.  The added premium price (500k) for MG ZS EV @ 1.2M, not so good vs petrol price @ 700k.  I wouldn't want to just break even for that price, as out & about too much be worry about any Qs at the charging station when EVs become more popular.  Saw the Qs when N/LPG was the big thing....damn silly, Q'd up overnight.

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, seedy said:

Charging infrastructure takes years and years to build.

 

 

 

Already getting established ... as I posted earlier on pg 2 of thread.  Not too many valid arguments not to go solar or EV, especially if only driving locally, within 300-400 kms.  Less if utilizing an inexpensive scooter (100kms) or tinker toy car ????

[sirineou]

13 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Already getting established ... as I posted earlier on pg 2 of thread.

We live in Khon Kaen, we often like to take a ride to Nong Khai, at a 175 km each way with most of the EVs available in Thailand we would need to recharge to get back. So out of curiosity I googled "EV charging stations Nong Khai" below is a screen shot of the returned EV charging map. As you can see , it looks like I would be towed by a kwai on the way back. LOL

It might be getting started, but it is certainly not getting established yet . 

RT2 is the way we will be going

[LarrySR]

12 minutes ago, sirineou said:

We live in Khon Kaen, we often like to take a ride to Nong Khai, at a 175 km each way with most of the EVs available in Thailand we would need to recharge to get back. So out of curiosity I googled "EV charging stations Nong Khai" below is a screen shot of the returned EV charging map. As you can see , it looks like I would be towed by a kwai on the way back. LOL

It might be getting started, but it is certainly not getting established yet . 

RT2 is the way we will be going

OMG There aren’t enough charging stations in Bumfuk Thailand. The industry is doomed!!

[Rampant Rabbit]

23 minutes ago, sirineou said:

As you can see , it looks like I would be towed by a kwai on the way back. LOL

youd  have to establish 1 if it was  actually  working and 2 if there were any brownouts which seem to be frequent in Thailand

[Rampant Rabbit]

11 minutes ago, LarrySR said:

OMG There aren’t enough charging stations in Bumfuk Thailand. The industry is doomed!!

You dont half blather  on its almost like a religion.

[Nojohndoe]

On 10/4/2021 at 7:54 AM, shdmn said:

Do they have those little stand up electric scooters in Thailand yet?  Seems like something that would be popular to rent.  They are all over the place in the west.  No idea what sort of range they have but they seem to zip along at a pretty good clip.  Can go in traffic or on the sidewalk although sidewalks don't really stop people on motor scooters in Thailand.

 

 

 

They are here. Trendy popular with young teens I think.

[Nojohndoe]

The Great Wall factory in South Thailand...is it manufacturing or only assembling? Either way I guess they will maximize pricing capacity while import duties remain so high .

Charging stations will eventually increase too as the demand rises.

Along rural highways it would be interesting to know the economic viability of establishing a solar farm in conjunction with a Charge Point that is independent of or minimally reliant on the National Grid.

 

[KhunLA]

Yea, major issue, as closest one to our house, is 70 km N or 170 kms S of us ????  

We're at PKK municipality (A. Muaang)  MG EP would get us to Krung Thep with no problem. 

MG ZS EV, maybe ????

 

One scooter I'm looking at, maybe 150 km range, if driving 35 kph, maybe.  So would make it to Hua Hin no problem (100 kms), though wouldn't want to be on a scooter that long, even if able to do 90 kph.  Very impractical for long distances at present, if on the move.  Maybe OK if hop scotching around with a bit a planning...no thanks.

 

But my usual, once to the park in the AM, and to the surf, early evening every day, e-scooter fits my needs perfectly.  @ 50 kph, at most, I'll be recharging every 2 or 3 days, at home via solar.  If I stayed local, the MG EP would work also.  Even out & about, with lots of planning.  Though would probably limit NE & N country exploring, since a bit wider.  South being 'thin', so no problem.  Rarely explore higher than Krung Thep anyway.

 

Of course you could always take a 'spare' with you.  EcoFlow Delta e-generator, or larger ESS.  Larger - they have a 48v5.3kw battery pack, though wouldn't be a fast charge using a basic inverter to plug into.  But you wouldn't be stranded.

[KhunLA]

Those wanting unlimited daytime (slow & short distance) e-bike ... DIY is the way to go ????

 

[Rampant Rabbit]

5 hours ago, LarrySR said:

Ok, then perhaps mum served you dinner on contaminated lead glazed pottery from Mexico. That would also explain things. 

Concentrations of lead can result in a decline in cognitive function and reasoning.

You should get that checked out. 

 

anything but admit electric  planes are dead in the water for  long haul use and extremely  limited for short range. Im waiting to see how condos with 1100 units are  going to put in 1100 chargers in Bangkok also. Theres  also the long distance driving that ev's are  not as  good  at where range drops dramitically at highway speeds. Anyway keep  blathering on or as John Cadogan says praise be to Electric Jesus Musk

[Rampant Rabbit]

19 minutes ago, Nojohndoe said:

The Great Wall factory in South Thailand...is it manufacturing or only assembling? Either way I guess they will maximize pricing capacity while import duties remain so high .

Charging stations will eventually increase too as the demand rises.

Along rural highways it would be interesting to know the economic viability of establishing a solar farm in conjunction with a Charge Point that is independent of or minimally reliant on the National Grid.

 

How are they going to deal with the Bangkok Condo  problem?

[sirineou]

39 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

youd  have to establish 1 if it was  actually  working and 2 if there were any brownouts which seem to be frequent in Thailand

or someone else there charging

[sirineou]

51 minutes ago, LarrySR said:

OMG There aren’t enough charging stations in Bumfuk Thailand. The industry is doomed!!

Thailand is not Bangkok .

[KhunLA]

4 hours ago, seedy said:

Kinda like some guys who consume propaganda from the EV industry.

If you have a calculator you can run the numbers yourself.

Mass adoption - It ain't happening anytime soon

I do all my own research & calculating.  

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Nojohndoe said:

The Great Wall factory in South Thailand...is it manufacturing or only assembling? Either way I guess they will maximize pricing capacity while import duties remain so high .

Charging stations will eventually increase too as the demand rises.

Along rural highways it would be interesting to know the economic viability of establishing a solar farm in conjunction with a Charge Point that is independent of or minimally reliant on the National Grid.

 

There's 2 solar farms (that I know of & visited), a natural gas electric generated power station (few kms from house) and  electric is brought in from Myanmar where I live.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

How are they going to deal with the Bangkok Condo  problem?

If enough condo owners on site w/ EVs, I would imagine a charging station on property, especially if allowances made pre-construction would be a worthy investment.  

 

No problem can't be solved.

[Rampant Rabbit]

Just now, KhunLA said:

made pre-construction

theres  an awful  lot of condos already built  though

[Nojohndoe]

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

There's 2 solar farms (that I know of & visited), a natural gas electric generated power station (few kms from house) and  electric is brought in from Myanmar where I live.

Yes. I have spotted quite a few large solar farms often well back off the roads but I guess they feed to the grid or in some cases to large scale pig farms or chicken growers. My  thoughts were for installations dedicated to EV charging stations which could satisfy some peoples preoccupation about impact on the existing grid or brown outs etc.

[KhunLA]

6 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

theres  an awful  lot of condos already built  though

How hard would it be (not very) to integrate charging ports at a portion of the allotted parking.  It's being done worldwide, quite easily.  One aspect of Thailand being 3rd world ... but with many modern conveniences.

[KhunLA]

18 minutes ago, Nojohndoe said:

Yes. I have spotted quite a few large solar farms often well back off the roads but I guess they feed to the grid or in some cases to large scale pig farms or chicken growers. My  thoughts were for installations dedicated to EV charging stations which could satisfy some peoples preoccupation about impact on the existing grid or brown outs etc.

The 2 near me are not private owned, and I thing produce 8MWs each.  Actually very close to each other, and would be more than enough for immediate local needs, since most don't abuse the AC or need heating.

[Nojohndoe]

5 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

theres  an awful  lot of condos already built  though

I have no experience with condo dwelling/s but if there are dedicated parking spots for residents adding metered charging points could surely be done..? I would guess that will become a standard feature as the demand increases. In the short term the percentage of EV buyers/owners will have taken the charging aspect into consideration of feasibility which for condo dwellers may be a problem.

I doubt that in the prospective wider market that is a major concern for EV advocates.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/3/2021 at 11:28 PM, Kanada said:

Prius owners seem to be a happy bunch (leaving room for the inevitable TV member to tell us how they had one and terrible blah blah blah)….been around a long time and well….”you just can’t beat a Toyota”????

 

A couple of brands (Volvo is one I think) have committed to go all electric within a year or so!

I think there will be a major surge in electric for a couple of years very soon and then the price of used fossil fueled vehicles (trade ins) will start to fall driving the industry where they and the Govt. want them to go?!

Unless they invent a new sort of battery soon, lack of raw materials may make that a bad dream. Also if too many all electric cars are owned, the source of electricity may be causing "problems" as not enough available in many countries to vastly expand electric car numbers, without using fossil fuel to generate it.

IMO they should be going hydrogen and I'm not the only one thinking that.

 

Personally, I wouldn't buy an electric car unless it can do a 7 hour journey with no longer than 15 minutes to recharge half way, which is what I do in a petrol car.

[LarrySR]

29 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Unless they invent a new sort of battery soon, lack of raw materials may make that a bad dream. Also if too many all electric cars are owned, the source of electricity may be causing "problems" as not enough available in many countries to vastly expand electric car numbers, without using fossil fuel to generate it.

IMO they should be going hydrogen and I'm not the only one thinking that.

 

Personally, I wouldn't buy an electric car unless it can do a 7 hour journey with no longer than 15 minutes to recharge half way, which is what I do in a petrol car.

A vast majority of cars average well under 50 miles per day. 
Most EV users never will need to charge the batteries during their excursions.

Installing a simple wall outlet is all that is needed as the cars are delivered with adapters. 

Gas cars always need to find a station, stop and refuel. 
 

Of course if you regularly journey 7 hours per day then you will need to recharge. 
The cars info screen will display all the stations within range. 
Superchargers will provide 80% charge in 20 minutes.
Facilities like restaurants, shopping centers and hotels will be installing chargepoints if they have any business acumen.