Electric vehicles of all kinds

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, seedy said:

 

I did not know "Most" states have a parallel grid so your Green power can come in separately. Google search shows nothing.

Another thing that needs to be mandated........

[VocalNeal]

On 10/9/2021 at 6:53 AM, LarrySR said:

Moores law dictate they will get cheaper and better.

Moore's law relates to computer the number of transistors in a dense integrated circuit (IC) and not to photo voltaic cells. 

Nothing related to cars (electric vehicles) will get cheaper. Unless vehicle manufacturers are willing to lose money. 

But granted at present Thailand does have an abundance of electrical energy going spare.

[KhunLA]

https://xn--m3cbjb3aaodh0nxab5rucxb.com/

 

https://www.facebook.com/IMioevcarthailand/

 

http://tiny.cc/sx9kuz

Edited October 14, 2021 by KhunLA

[seedy]

 

[placeholder]

On 10/11/2021 at 4:43 PM, VocalNeal said:

Moore's law relates to computer the number of transistors in a dense integrated circuit (IC) and not to photo voltaic cells. 

Nothing related to cars (electric vehicles) will get cheaper. Unless vehicle manufacturers are willing to lose money. 

But granted at present Thailand does have an abundance of electrical energy going spare.

It might be possible to be more wrong, but you would really have to work hard at it

 

Battery Pack Prices Cited Below $100/kWh for the First Time in 2020, While Market Average Sits at $137/kWh

Lithium-ion battery pack prices, which were above $1,100 per kilowatt-hour in 2010, have fallen 89% in real terms to $137/kWh in 2020. By 2023, average prices will be close to $100/kWh, according to the latest forecast from research company BloombergNEF (BNEF).

For the first time, battery pack prices of less than $100/kWh have been reported.

https://about.bnef.com/blog/battery-pack-prices-cited-below-100-kwh-for-the-first-time-in-2020-while-market-average-sits-at-137-kwh/

 

The researchers found that the cost of these batteries has dropped by 97 percent since they were first commercially introduced in 1991. This rate of improvement is much faster than many analysts had claimed and is comparable to that of solar photovoltaic panels, which some had considered to be an exceptional case. The new findings are reported today in the journal Energy and Environmental Science, in a paper by MIT postdoc Micah Ziegler and Associate Professor Jessika Trancik.

https://news.mit.edu/2021/lithium-ion-battery-costs-0323

 

And solid state batteries are now in the works that will be cheaper, fireproof  and offer higher storage capacity and short charging times.

[placeholder]

On 10/11/2021 at 10:59 AM, seedy said:

Left or Right - matters not to me.

But I find that people who think this can all happen in 5 or 10 years are living in Cloud Cuckoo land.

Especially here in LOS - where things take a long time.

Just imagine the cost of the electrical cable alone to go from BKK to Udon Thani so all the poor saps who believe in Electric Jesus - as John Cadogan calls Elon Musk - can plug in their cars enroute.

And if everyone goes down this route, will they have 200 or 300 outlets at the charging stations, or will you have to wait for 1 or 2 or 3 hours to get a slot.

Whereas gasoline and diesel infrastructure is in place and functioning, and it takes 5 or 10 minutes to fuel and be on your way.

Total fantasy if people believe this will happen any time soon.

In the city, running errands and back and forth to work - OK, doable.

Long distance - 555

And aircraft - That is not Cloud Cuckoo land, that is Straight Jacket Land 555

Clearly,  you haven't been following the extraordinary progress in increased battery capacity. Ya think that virtually all the major auto companies are investing billions in solid state battery development because they like to burn cash?

[placeholder]

On 10/10/2021 at 1:05 PM, Yellowtail said:

Oh, look, Ford & GM both out performing Tesla YTD......

 

Global sales of electric cars accelerate fast in 2020 despite pandemic

Global sales of electric cars accelerated fast in 2020, rising by 43% to more than 3m, despite overall car sales slumping by a fifth during the coronavirus pandemic.

Tesla was the brand selling the most electric cars, delivering almost 500,000, followed by Volkswagen. Sales of electric cars more than doubled in Europe, pushing the region past China as the world’s biggest market for them, according to data published on Tuesday by EV-volumes.com, a Sweden-based consultancy.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/19/global-sales-of-electric-cars-accelerate-fast-in-2020-despite-covid-pandemic

 

How did GM & Ford do in 2020 sales?

[placeholder]

On 10/9/2021 at 1:40 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Unless they invent a new sort of battery soon, lack of raw materials may make that a bad dream. Also if too many all electric cars are owned, the source of electricity may be causing "problems" as not enough available in many countries to vastly expand electric car numbers, without using fossil fuel to generate it.

IMO they should be going hydrogen and I'm not the only one thinking that.

 

Personally, I wouldn't buy an electric car unless it can do a 7 hour journey with no longer than 15 minutes to recharge half way, which is what I do in a petrol car.

Solid-state battery

A solid-state battery is a battery technology that uses solid electrodes and a solid electrolyte, instead of the liquid or polymer gel electrolytes found in lithium-ion or lithium polymer batteries.[1][2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_battery

[placeholder]

On 10/8/2021 at 5:18 PM, Yellowtail said:

Per the "scientists", the new technology batteries will incorporate upsidaisium in the construction, actually making them lighter than air. This technology will actually provide additional lift, reducing the total amount of energy used. Unfortunately this is still in the "dream" phase, and desperately needs additional federal funding to advance to the pre-planning phase...

If you're attempting to advertise your astonishing obliviousness in respect to developments in battery storage capacity, you've succeeded. 

[placeholder]

On 10/9/2021 at 6:30 AM, sirineou said:

If you are buying an electric vehicle to save money on gas, ask yourself, How much gas can you buy with the extra money you spend to get that EV. 

There's also the fact that EVs are much simpler mechanically with far fewer parts than an ICE. What's more, because of that, they are projected to last a lot longer than internal combustion autos. you won't have to buy a new car nearly as often.

[johng]

12 minutes ago, placeholder said:

you won't have to buy a new car nearly as often.

What about the batteries   if the cost of a new battery pack is say 70% the cost of the vehicle ?

also  longer lasting vehicles won't go down too well with manufactures   perhaps they can persuade the governments to salt the roads all year round instead of just winter...must include all countries not having snow and ice   where the salt can be marketed as extra road grip in the rain ????

[seedy]

the solid-state battery will likely take off after 2025, although small-scale production may happen even earlier. The car plug-in market will take the largest share (66%) in 2031, followed by smartphone applications.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/solid-state-battery-market-will-grow-to-8-billion-by-2031-reveals-idtechex-301317219.html

 

Read my post above - where I mentioned 5 - 10 years

After 2025 = 2026  2021 + 5 = 2026

 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, johng said:

What about the batteries   if the cost of a new battery pack is say 70% the cost of the vehicle ?

also  longer lasting vehicles won't go down too well with manufactures   perhaps they can persuade the governments to salt the roads all year round instead of just winter...must include all countries not having snow and ice   where the salt can be marketed as extra road grip in the rain ????

"Consumer Reports estimates the average EV battery pack’s lifespan to be at around 200,000 miles, which is nearly 17 years of use if driven 12,000 miles per year.

Looking forward, Tesla says it’s working on technology that would enable its electric car batteries to last for as many as one million miles, which is likely more than the rest of the car might hold up. Now that’s a lifetime-of-the-vehicle component."

https://www.myev.com/research/ev-101/how-long-should-an-electric-cars-battery-last

As for the rest of your comments, why bother addressing nonsense?

 

[seedy]

News Flash - cars powered by the new technology "Wishful Thinking" are on the drawing boards and hope to be on the market soon

[johng]

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Consumer Reports estimates the average EV battery pack’s lifespan to be at around 200,000 miles, which is nearly 17 years of use if driven 12,000 miles per year.

Looking forward, Tesla says it’s working on technology

Estimates and may be's  

 

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

As for the rest of your comments, why bother addressing nonsense?

Nonsense ?  perhaps in your view, but no comment on the manufactures not wanting an "everlasting" product.

[seedy]

20 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 Tesla says it’s working on technology that would enable its electric car batteries to last for as many as one million miles, which is likely more than the rest of the car might hold up.

People can 'Say" anything -

If only Tesla could stop their cars catching fire maybe they can then proceed to the "Million Mile" battery pack

Which is Snake Oil at it's best

[seedy]

Mass market production of these batteries for EVs is three to five years away, experts say.

Carmakers and technology companies have produced solid-state li-ion battery cells one at a time in a lab, but have been unable so far to scale that up to a mass production.

It is hard to design a solid electrolyte that is stable, chemically inert and still a good conductor of ions between the electrodes. They are expensive to fabricate and are prone to cracking because of the brittleness of the electrolytes when they expand and contract during use.

Currently, a solid-state cell costs about eight times more to make than a liquid li-ion battery, experts say.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/how-will-solid-state-batteries-make-electric-vehicles-better-2021-09-07/

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, seedy said:

People can 'Say" anything -

If only Tesla could stop their cars catching fire maybe they can then proceed to the "Million Mile" battery pack

Which is Snake Oil at it's best

And how do Tesla's rate  of fires comare to Internal Combustion Vehicles?

[placeholder]

15 minutes ago, seedy said:

Mass market production of these batteries for EVs is three to five years away, experts say.

Carmakers and technology companies have produced solid-state li-ion battery cells one at a time in a lab, but have been unable so far to scale that up to a mass production.

It is hard to design a solid electrolyte that is stable, chemically inert and still a good conductor of ions between the electrodes. They are expensive to fabricate and are prone to cracking because of the brittleness of the electrolytes when they expand and contract during use.

Currently, a solid-state cell costs about eight times more to make than a liquid li-ion battery, experts say.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/how-will-solid-state-batteries-make-electric-vehicles-better-2021-09-07/

If there's one trend that's been consistent, it's that battery technology has consistently outpaced  predictions

This article was written in 2015

Electric vehicle batteries ‘already cheaper than 2020 projections’

https://www.carbonbrief.org/electric-vehicle-batteries-already-cheaper-than-2020-projections

 

And developments like this kee on blindsiding those who make predictions. And to fair, even the researchers themselves.

A New Solid-state Battery Surprises the Researchers Who Created It

Engineers create a high performance all-solid-state battery with a pure-silicon anode

https://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/pressrelease/meng_science_2021

 

 

 

[placeholder]

42 minutes ago, johng said:

Estimates and may be's  

 

Nonsense ?  perhaps in your view, but no comment on the manufactures not wanting an "everlasting" product.

Do I really have to explain this? For that scenario to occur there would have to be a worldwide conspiracy among all auto manufacturers. If just one refuses to go along, the jig would be up for the rest of them.

[LarrySR]

1 hour ago, johng said:

What about the batteries   if the cost of a new battery pack is say 70% the cost of the vehicle ?

also  longer lasting vehicles won't go down too well with manufactures   perhaps they can persuade the governments to salt the roads all year round instead of just winter...must include all countries not having snow and ice   where the salt can be marketed as extra road grip in the rain ????

What about the transmission and engine in a gas car? You think they last longer than battery pac?

[LarrySR]

42 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And how do Tesla's rate  of fires comare to Internal Combustion Vehicles?

The dimwit Climate Change Deniers love to pass around the press releases of a Tesla fire. I often get the Emails too. 

The fossil fuel industry and right wing media that supports them make sure the rare news of a Tesla fire goes viral!

 

These Deniers are completely unaware that fire departments in the USA are called out to over 175,000 gas car fires every year. Nearly 2 million car fires in the last decade.

Edited October 15, 2021 by LarrySR

[Yellowtail]

If EVs are so much better and cheaper, why all the mandates? 

 

And we'll still be burning fossil fuel to charge them.

 

Too funny

[johng]

16 minutes ago, LarrySR said:

What about the transmission and engine in a gas car? You think they last longer than battery pac?

Yes I think they last longer.

[LarrySR]

14 minutes ago, johng said:

Yes I think they last longer.

Well then, you'd  be wrong.

According to your mechanic.com a typical automatic transmissions last around 150,00 miles or approximately 7 years. Cases exist in both extremes; extreme longevity and early failure.

Now you know.

Edited October 15, 2021 by LarrySR

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, LarrySR said:

Well then, you'd  be wrong.

According to your mechanic.com a typical automatic transmissions last around 150,00 to 200,000 miles or approximately 7 years. Cases exist in both extremes; extreme longevity and early failure.

Now you know.

Did you hear that on Fox News? 

 

In any event, I'm still waiting for those links to the daily press releases you claimed the oil companies put out daily. I'm starting to think you were just making it up. You weren't lying when you said that were you? 

[LarrySR]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Did you hear that on Fox News? 

 

 

No, only knuckleheads watch that garbage..... but I do know how to 'look it up.'

Google: "TRANSMISSION LIFE EXPECTANCY CHART"

Edited October 15, 2021 by LarrySR

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

There's also the fact that EVs are much simpler mechanically with far fewer parts than an ICE. What's more, because of that, they are projected to last a lot longer than internal combustion autos. you won't have to buy a new car nearly as often.

That's true, but the most expensive component of the vehicles the batteries,  will start degrading with in years reducing your effective range, and are projected to lose viability with in 100,000  miles . especially in a hot climate such as Thailand.  Batteries accounted for around 37% of total vehicle costs as of today . To be fair battery costs are declining and are projected to be about 20% of the total cost of a vehicle by 2030.

Imagine if there was an ICE vehicle that had projected repair costs of 37% of its initial cost with in its first 100k miles. No one would buy it. It would be the worst ICE vehicle in the market. 

Don't get me wrong, I think EVs are the future, but IMO, from an economics point of view are not there yet. 

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by sirineou

[Yellowtail]

10 minutes ago, LarrySR said:

No, only knuckleheads watch that garbage..... but I do know how to 'look it up.'

Google: "TRANSMISSION LIFE EXPECTANCY CHART"

In any event, I'm still waiting for those links to the daily press releases you claimed the oil companies put out daily. I'm starting to think you were just making it up. You weren't lying when you said that were you? 

[Yellowtail]

I have never had a transmission go out, and I have not blown an engine since 1975.

 

Seems like I burn through a lot of batteries.