Elderly expats dazed and confused over insurance, ‘retirement visas’ and COVID

[koratkarlos]

I was planning to use my existing health insurance policy.  I have received a letter from the insurance company stating "We confirm that ********** health insurance does provide cover for Coronavirus (Covid-19) under and subject to the standard terms, conditions, exclusions and warranties of
the policy."  The letter also contains my policy number and maximum annual benefit which exceeds the $ 50,000.  Does anyone know if this is acceptable?   I have a relatively standard non-Thai expat policy underwritten by Allianz.  Thank you in advance.

[Benmart]

4 hours ago, mokwit said:

No country for old men.

What is "old"? Your comment is vague and without merit. 

[John Drake]

15 minutes ago, toho said:

I can understand that Thai authorities do not want to pay hospital bills for some stupid foreigners who think they can travel around the world without any health insurance at all.

You can have insurance and still not be insured. That is precisely what happens to someone who pays a sky high premium for health insurance that contains so many required exclusions and deductibles as to make it almost worthless. And that doesn't solve any problem for hospitals either. If someone comes in for treatment of a condition excluded by the insurance policy, then the situation is exactly the same as it was before this insurance mandate. The only difference is that the money someone might have had to pay down their hospital bill was directed to an insurance company, instead, for worthless insurance. The patient and the hospital both lose, while the insurance company just rakes in more cash.

[SymS]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

However, those with a work permit can show a valid social security card or certified letter from their employer.

I once asked for a social security card, but I was told it was not necessary because I had a pink card. And indeed I can use social security at the hospital with my pink card, but I'm not sure this would cut it with immigration. So I'd have to make sure to get a certified letter from my employer before leaving the country, since I print out may not be considered valid.

[davidhen]

11 minutes ago, Benmart said:

What is "old"? Your comment is vague and without merit. 

It's the name of an old movie. Google it!

[RichardColeman]

Maybe they should drop ALL insurance and health costs for ALL countries that do not charge Thais for accidents and dog bites and emergency care. Make it fair, you take care if us in emergencies for free, we do it for you

 

It's nonsense anyway. One poster has stated that 300,000,000 baht in unpaid expenses - or say $10,000,000. Seems to me just charging a ridiculously low 25 cents or 20p entry for hospital care would cover it with ease based on 40 million tourists 

[vandeventer]

3 hours ago, HeijoshinCool said:

.

 

So, those on non-imm O retirement extension already in the country will be grandfathered in (if they do not leave and come back)?

 

 

I guess will just have to get our lazy [Cheap] friends or family to come here to see us, for a change.

[John Drake]

Just now, RichardColeman said:

Seems to me just charging a ridiculously low 25 cents or 20p entry for hospital care would cover it with ease based on 40 million tourists 

They have just done this recently by adding a 500 baht entry fee at the airports. But they want the insurance money in addition to that.

[poyai111]

Difficulty in reentry because of huge cost if over 72 or whatever? Time to retire elsewhere. Go to USA via Mexico. Free entry to utopia for illegal aliens!

[barefootbangkok]

Gee should I buy $5-10,000 of useless insurance to remain in Thailand even though most policies don't cover cancer, eliminate the coverage of most medical problems if one has high blood pressure or some pre-existing condition.  The insurance is basically useless once you reach 70+ and increases for every year you age.  With the amount you pay for insurance, one could buy a condo in a smaller town in most Western countries.  The amount one saves by living in Thailand is negated by the insurance cost. 

Solution?  Move back home when Thailand requires health insurance since most countries have free healthcare and no requirement to buy bogus insurance.  As a previous poster said "This is no country for old men" despite what the fake news says.

[HashBrownHarry]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes that is the CURRENT policy.

Until insurance is required for annual visa extensions, you don't think that's right round the corner?

[SymS]

4 hours ago, mokwit said:

No country for old men.

Except for old rich men, as they could always apply for an investment visa, or go with the 5 to 20-year visa scheme (forgot the name!).
Provided those do not require health insurance, which I don't know the answer.

[Reigntax]

In any case the insurance is cheap. 

3.5 mil THB Covid and health insurance for 2 months cost just over 4K THB

[HappyExpat57]

Does anyone know if US retirees are covered if they have Medicare parts A & B?

[Robin]

Might these new restrictions on retirement be something due to the initial retirement idea being from Taksin.?

I only know of one Farang who defaulted on his hospital bills.   That was because he died in Thai hospital, before he could pay his bill.

Incidentally, he also left his Thai wife destitute.  he "did not need" health insurance, because  eh thought that as a Farang he as immune to Thai diseases.  As is ofen said here. "you can't cure stupid.' 

[John Drake]

4 minutes ago, HappyExpat57 said:

Does anyone know if US retirees are covered if they have Medicare parts A & B?

Can't use Medicare in Thailand. So, no.

[nkg]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Since October 1, applicants are required to have health insurance which offers minimum coverage up to 3 million baht for inpatient care.

 

However, it is important to note that this requirement only applies to O-A visas.

 

You also have to take out 3.5 million baht health coverage for the STV now (was previously 400,000).

[Chiang Mai Will]

4 hours ago, hereforgood said:

Only OA for now anyway

Mmmmm. But I wonder what the insurance premium would be for a ''healthy for his age'' old fella of 80 wishing to holiday for 30 days in Thailand would be?

 

Lots of oldies want to do this.

[vandeventer]

7 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Maybe they should drop ALL insurance and health costs for ALL countries that do not charge Thais for accidents and dog bites and emergency care. Make it fair, you take care if us in emergencies for free, we do it for you

 

It's nonsense anyway. One poster has stated that 300,000,000 baht in unpaid expenses - or say $10,000,000. Seems to me just charging a ridiculously low 25 cents or 20p entry for hospital care would cover it with ease based on 40 million tourists 

I agree it should be stopped. Most Thai's pay 30 baht a day in the Hospital and I have been here for 20 years and retired. So why can't I do a deal direct with the Hospital where I live Anything above 30 baht a day is just pure profit for them?

[moogradod]

11 minutes ago, barefootbangkok said:

................................. As a previous poster said "This is no country for old men" despite what the fake news says.

But maybe a country for (old or young) men with a Thai family...? Or at least it should be ?

[damascase]

34 minutes ago, toho said:

Mentioning  amounts on an insurance statement is a NO-GO for insurance companies in The Netherlands. 

 

I have a basic state health insurance as well as an excellent additional insurance. This basic insurance already fully covers Covid-19.

Moreover I have an extra travel insurance, which also covers medical assistance.

But all of theses insurance companies do not mention amounts (50.000 USD, 400.00 THB, etc.)!!

So now Thai authorities force me to buy another insurance.

Completely unnecessary!! And the older you get, the higher the premium.

 

I asked my insurance companies for a statement several times, but they just give me a general statement without mentioning any amount.

 

I can understand that Thai authorities do not want to pay hospital bills for some stupid foreigners who think they can travel around the world without any health insurance at all.

 

But it would be a big help if Thai authorities would approve that every visitor can enter Thailand if they can show a statement of their health insurance company, including the clause that Covid-19 is covered,  but WITHOUT the required amounts.  

I’m in the same situation. Our Dutch insurance statements basically say that there are no financial limits on coverage, but apparently the Thai authorities consider 50k USD to be beyond ‘unlimited’…….. So I would be forced to pay for a completely useless, superfluous health insurance, but most of them don’t accept me because of the age limits they set. The only possibility I’ve seen boils down to over 15.000 baht a month - not far from 2.5k Euro for the six months of coverage I need.

[Deerculler]

What I am going to say will not make any difference.

Neither will Thai Arthourities want or understand it.

The majority of expates who retire in Thailand bring money with them and continue to bring money into Thailand at no cost to Thailand.

 So all this money is free to Thailand.

 If they had any brains or humanity.

Retired expates should be under the same system as Thai people.

 All our money is free to Thailand from our country's.

 

 

[mancub]

3 hours ago, Enzian said:

I think what's being missed is that Non-O persons re-entering the country only need insurance for the period of stay they are stamped in for.    eg, I, a non-O holder, return on Dec. 7 and the IO looks at my PP and sees that my re-entry permit expires 14 days later on Dec. 20; she stamps me in to Dec. 20. The fact that I will stay much longer doesn't matter. I only need to buy 30 days of the required insurance. When that runs out I don't have to renew, Im back like I was way back, essentially self-insured.

Would they not stamp you in until the expiry date of your Non-O ? 

[rickthompson]

3 hours ago, Chad3000 said:

Unpaid medical is a total red herring to be polite. We all know this. Most hospitals will literally escort you to ATM before discharge. No joke.

Especially the private hospitals.  Why do you think they always have a person come to escort you to the cashier.  No slipping away then... ????

[kiwikeith]

4 hours ago, pookiki said:

As it stands now, all persons entering Thailand (except those with work permits with medical insurance under the Thai healthcare system), must have health insurance with a minimum of US$50,000.00 coverage that includes treatment for COVID. This is less than the 'new' requirement for O-A visa holders that will require US$100,000 medical insurance that includes treatment for COVID. Currently, expats on O visas are not required to have any insurance.  Frankly I don't see how those on O visas will be allowed to continue with no insurance but one never knows for sure.  For sure, the system needs to be overhauled and certainly some elderly people are 'trapped' in having to meet the new insurance requirements if they leave Thailand and then return as they have in the past.  I don't see a resolution to this problem soon.

I think that covid insurance is fine ,it's quite affordable, but if your over 75 the health insurance, separate from covid, becomes a financial nighmare for 0ver 75 .

I have spoken to some of the advisors that are linked to advertising on this site and they say USD 20,000 per year for people who are up there in the over 75, I find this abysmal, and it seems to be a money grab from Thai Insurance companies.

If your covered for covid that should be the main concern and that insurance is offered cheap to people up to 95 yrs of age, buttttt, the health insurance needed on top, seems like nothing but a scam, and a way off ripping off the elderly and forcing them out of Thailand, even though they have spent many years in the country and have children to Thai partners and contribute more than any  tourist would to the economy.

It is shameful , NZ does not treat Thai elderly people like this, we grant them citizenship and a pension if they qualify, and we educate their grandchildren free.

And we give them free hospital care and ACC insurance -- free.

[khunpa]

Out with the old and poor… Big welcome to the rich!

 

What’s there to be confused about? 

[kiwikeith]

6 minutes ago, khunpa said:

Out with the old and poor… Big welcome to the rich!

 

What’s there to be confused about? 

Well it seems that if your elderly and die of covid, then you probably would have died anyway from comorbidities.

But the research does not say , how many years of useful life you may have had if you died from a comorbidity , there are no papers available at present on research about this.

So it seems elderly that reside in LOS must dump the cash they have into insurance companies, or just go home and die, because you would die of comorbidities anyway, and you may be a flight risk , for not paying up for your hospital bill.

Don't worry about the house you own , the Thai children you love and support, or your Thai wife, just pay up or get out.

[4MyEgo]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

There is currently no requirement for anyone on a Non Immigrant O extension to have health insurance - apart from if they wish to re-enter Thailand, which is a requirement for all foreigners, regardless of their visa status. 

So it's both the Non Immigrant O/A and the Non Immigrant O extension if you are re-entering Thailand.

 

Not confusing at all, but the rest of the article contradicts what it said up to this point.

 

I get it, for those on the Non Immigrant O extension, no need to get the insurance if you stay put, but if you exit Thailand, you will need insurance on the way back.

 

Now I am on a Non Immigrant O extension (marriage), so that means if I exit Thailand and re-enter I have to have insurance, but what about my private health cover insurance, will that do and what docs am I supposed to produce to them because all I have is an insurance card in my wallet.

[clivebaxter]

5 hours ago, mokwit said:

No country for old men.

Not if they can't even afford the 'retirement visa' legally anyway, the agents will not be able to get them out of insurance requirements as well.

[James Roderick]

Do the new insurance requirements ( for entering Thailand ) apply to Elite  Visa Holders ??