Sinovac not inferior: Anutin

[Boedog]

4 hours ago, Jerno said:

Is he retarded or just plain stupid?  Sheesh!

Why can't he be both he certainly qualifies 

[RichardColeman]

4 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

It will get interesting when thailand starts using its own homegrown vaccine, like ChulaCov19.

CthulhuCov19 would be more apt for a Thai vaccine

[Isaan sailor]

For once, I agree with Mr. Anutin.  SinoVac is not inferior to western vaccines.  It’s damned near useless for today’s variants.

[RJRS1301]

4 hours ago, Jerno said:

Is he retarded or just plain stupid?  Sheesh!

as well as uniformed and unable to even have the science explained to him it seems .

Perhaps if the advisors use words of two syllables or less, kit may assist in  his understanding and comprehension 

[Scott Tracy]

3 hours ago, ChrisY1 said:

Not inferior in Thailands' view.....just rejected by the western world!

No they are not. And the so called western world is not always right.

 

The whole issue hacks me off no end. If a UN body approved the vaccine, why the <deleted> can't countries run with it? Why do they have to be different? What's the point of a WHO approval?

 

It's pathetic and puerile.

 

Kindest regards, Grumpy Old Man...

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, sandhurstmolonski said:

And in this instance that is SPOT ON , it's a highly effective option ,that was incorrectly and unreasonably singled out by the West ,just an effective as anything else .

 

 

It is effective,  but not as effective as the vaccines currently available from the West. A strong immune response is elicited when it is supplement with a different booster vaccine. However, Chinese companies are in the process of making mRNA vaccines and other kinds of vaccines.  Most likely they will turn out to be more effective than what is being offered from China now. Clearly, much, if not most, of the bashing of the Chinese vaccines comes from distaste for the Chinese govt or some outmoded notions of the level of technological sophistication attained by Chinese manufacturers. 

[ramrod711]

5 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

Because of this, Thailand may now be forced to rethink its vaccination strategy, he conceded. 

 

He added that people who have been vaccinated with Sinovac and Sinopharm may need to get an additional mRNA vaccine if they need to travel overseas. 

I wonder if this means I may yet receive both Moderna jabs I pre-paid for. I got a Sinovac I didn't want so I could get an AstraZeneca. When I went to Lanna hospital I was informed that one Moderna is all that I will get because of their policy. I asked about a booster shot because of my age and diabetes. One Moderna is your booster shot I was told. Many countries will not allow travelers to enter with that mix. Give me what I paid for is all I ask.

[FridgeMagnet1]

4 hours ago, wombat said:

Is Sinovac the one not accepted by America for travel?

No, it’s accepted in the US

[DBath]

1 hour ago, itsari said:

As much as I dislike the health minister for his comments about the cleanliness of Caucasians  I must look at what the man has to say .

Like the man said , the Chinese vaccines have saved lives . 

Many people posting incorrect information about the Chinese vaccines . Why ? Just plain bigotry most of the time .

 

Sorry to break it to you, but there is nothing sincere or pure about the Chinese government - or their vaccine, IMO.  People like you refuse to see how the Chinese have strong-armed or attempted to strong-arm and infiltrate every country they have a relationship with, including the US gov’t. 
 

If you want proof go on the FBI’s website where there are thousands of documented failed attempts at espionage by China operatives to subvert and steal intellectual capital and secrets. 
 

And before you accuse me of being a bigot, please consider that I’m married to a Chinese woman. I’ve also worked directly for a CCP controlled telecom company in China. so it’s likely I have way more insight into this topic than you ever will.

[keithkarmann]

I have noticed that during my time in Thailand that the people have difficulty admitting that they have made a mistake. That us why "its up to you" is one of the favorite sayings here. 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

nobody should be listening to politicians on health matters. I don’t go to a nail salon to buy insurance.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, gearbox said:

If there is a wide choice of vaccines and people have choice, distribution probably could be similar to EU:

 

* between 80-90% choose Pfizer/Biontech

* up to 10% choose Moderna, for some reason doesn't seem to be marketed well there

Interesting... the recent trend lines in vaccinations for the E.U. and the U.S. appear to show Pfizer pulling well ahead of Moderna in terms of total shots given, and broadening its lead in those two regions.

 

 

 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-vaccine-doses-by-manufacturer?country=~USA

 

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, DBath said:

Sorry to break it to you, but there is nothing sincere or pure about the Chinese government - or their vaccine, IMO.  People like you refuse to see how the Chinese have strong-armed or attempted to strong-arm and infiltrate every country they have a relationship with, including the US gov’t. 
 

If you want proof go on the FBI’s website where there are thousands of documented failed attempts at espionage by China operatives to subvert and steal intellectual capital and secrets. 
 

And before you accuse me of being a bigot, please consider that I’m married to a Chinese woman. I’ve also worked directly for a CCP controlled telecom company in China. so it’s likely I have way more insight into this topic than you ever will.

The vaccine has been subject to repeated clinical trials outside of China. In Brazil 95% of the adult population of a small city was vaccinated. 

Brazilian town experiment shows mass vaccination can wipe out COVID-19

A small commuter town surrounded by sugarcane fields in southeastern Brazil, one of the countries hardest hit by COVID-19, has shown that even a vaccine that had low efficacy in some clinical trials can dramatically control the pandemic virus.

As part of an unusual experiment to track the real-world effectiveness of CoronaVac, a COVID-19 vaccine made by a Chinese company, almost all adult residents of Serrana, in the state of São Paulo, received the required two shots between February and April, long before most would otherwise have become eligible for the vaccine...Symptomatic cases of COVID-19 have dropped by 80% since the start of mass vaccination, related hospitalizations fell 86%, and deaths plummeted 95%, the research team in charge of the experiment reported during a press conference yesterday.

https://www.science.org/content/article/brazilian-town-experiment-shows-mass-vaccination-can-wipe-out-covid-19

This was before the advent of Delta. So that is a qualification. 

As for your career in China, were you working there as epidemiologist or a virologist? If not, who cares about your employment or marital record? It is to laugh

Edited November 14, 2021 by placeholder

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Interesting... the recent trend lines in vaccinations for the E.U. and the U.S. appear to show Pfizer pulling well ahead of Moderna in terms of total shots given, and broadening its lead in those two regions.

 

 

 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-vaccine-doses-by-manufacturer?country=~USA

 

Moderna's manufacturing capability is far less than Pfizer's and Biontech's.

[ramrod711]

1 hour ago, itsari said:

As much as I dislike the health minister for his comments about the cleanliness of Caucasians  I must look at what the man has to say .

Like the man said , the Chinese vaccines have saved lives . 

Many people posting incorrect information about the Chinese vaccines . Why ? Just plain bigotry most of the time .

 

I'm not a doctor or a scientist, don't know or care about Sinovac or Sinopharm. What I do care about is being allowed to travel to Canada sometime in the future. My home country does not recognize those vaccines, I can have a mix, but those two didn't make the team. Send them to the bench and insert the good stuff.

[FridgeMagnet1]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

The vaccine has been subject to repeated clinical trials outside of China. In Brazil 95% of the adult population of a small city was vaccinated. 

Brazilian town experiment shows mass vaccination can wipe out COVID-19

A small commuter town surrounded by sugarcane fields in southeastern Brazil, one of the countries hardest hit by COVID-19, has shown that even a vaccine that had low efficacy in some clinical trials can dramatically control the pandemic virus.

As part of an unusual experiment to track the real-world effectiveness of CoronaVac, a COVID-19 vaccine made by a Chinese company, almost all adult residents of Serrana, in the state of São Paulo, received the required two shots between February and April, long before most would otherwise have become eligible for the vaccine...Symptomatic cases of COVID-19 have dropped by 80% since the start of mass vaccination, related hospitalizations fell 86%, and deaths plummeted 95%, the research team in charge of the experiment reported during a press conference yesterday.

https://www.science.org/content/article/brazilian-town-experiment-shows-mass-vaccination-can-wipe-out-covid-19

This was before the advent of Delta. So that is a qualification. 

As for your career in China, were you working there as epidemiologist or a virologist? If not, who cares about your employment or marital record? It is to laugh

Don’t bother, they don’t care and they aren’t listening.

They just want to shout “Sinovac is <deleted>” and “China is bad” like kids on the school yard. 

[FridgeMagnet1]

2 minutes ago, ramrod711 said:

I'm not a doctor or a scientist, don't know or care about Sinovac or Sinopharm. What I do care about is being allowed to travel to Canada sometime in the future. My home country does not recognize those vaccines, I can have a mix, but those two didn't make the team. Send them to the bench and insert the good stuff.

They probably will recognize them very soon. US and UK recognized them this week. There is no real reason not to recognize them 

[DefaultName]

So, Sinovac is good.  He needs a 4th jab to go skiing, what are the odds that he doesn't get Sinovac.  ????

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

As per the link in the main article: He would have been allowed to enter Switzerland and THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO QUARANTINE for him. 

HOWEVER: With the vaccine combination he has, he would not have gotten a Swiss Covid certificate, for which every visitor to Switzerland can apply by showing his/her vaccination status. EU certificates are also accepted, but obviously not the Thai certificates (why might that be???). This certificate he would need to enter buildings or do activities such as :

- go check his Swiss bank accounts

- enter restaurants to go eat and drink

- go into any red light establishment and bars 

- go skiing in any mountain resort

 

So he might have been able to attend a UN event, but he probably did not want to go there in the first place...

 

So this is the explanation of the vague reference in the OP post between Anutin's vaccine history supposedly actually would have allowed him to enter the country...

 

But, without the additional Swiss COVID certificate that he would NOT have been eligible to receive, he would have been limited in terms of where he could go and what he could do there.

 

This part surely would have been the killer issue:

 

Quote

- go into any red light establishment and bars 

 

[DBath]

12 minutes ago, keithkarmann said:

I have noticed that during my time in Thailand that the people have difficulty admitting that they have made a mistake. That us why "its up to you" is one of the favorite sayings here. 

It’s much worse than that even. Too many on here will accuse you of being an ‘anti-vaxxer’, if you dare claim it should be a matter of choice. 
 

I would encourage anyone who wants vaccination to get vaccinated.
 

Personally, I have no desire to whatsoever. If that makes me an ‘anti-vaxxer’ then so be it.

 

What I find pathetic is how some people act like getting jabbed is some ‘badge of honor’. I wonder will they still feel that way when they reach booster number 9 or 10? ????????????

[placeholder]

Just now, WinterGael said:

This is just more Sinophobia on the part of western nations.  The Chinese vaccines are not inferior.  Just look at countries using mRNA vaccines and the rate of infection of fully vaccinated. 

 

To date, Chinese vaccines are showing an efficacy of around 60%.  Pfizer and Moderna are not much better in real world studies.  In some studies, Pfizer has been as poor as 47%.  But this isn't about efficacy, its all about point of origin.

 

Personally,  I have always checked the vaccine available and rejected the mRNA vaccines.  Why?  Because there are concerns that these vaccines could have long term negative effects.

There seem to be 2 classes of extremists in regards to the Chinese vaccines. One claims them to be worthless or nearly so, and the other claims them to be equal to or better than the leading vaccines from the west.

Sinovac's COVID shot highly effective against serious illness- Malaysia study

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/sinovacs-covid-shot-highly-effective-against-serious-illness-malaysia-study-2021-09-24/

This study confirmed that Sinovac was highly effective but not as effective as the Pfizer vaccine. Malaysia has discontued using Sinovac.

There are no current studies that I am aware of the confirm that Sinovac or Sinopharm are as effective as the mRNA vaccines.

As for long term consequences. this is the kind of nonsense bruited about by, among others, Chinese govt. media sources. I expect that will go away once mRNA vaccines or protein basedd vaccines from China hit the market.

[FridgeMagnet1]

2 minutes ago, DBath said:

It’s much worse than that even. Too many on here will accuse you of being an ‘anti-vaxxer’, if you dare claim it should be a matter of choice. 
 

I would encourage anyone who wants vaccination to get vaccinated.
 

Personally, I have no desire to whatsoever. If that makes me an ‘anti-vaxxer’ then so be it.

 

What I find pathetic is how some people act like getting jabbed is some ‘badge of honor’. I wonder will they still feel that way when they reach booster number 9 or 10? ????????????

I wonder if you will still feel that way if you are on a ventilator, unable to get enough oxygen to live? 
 

what have the number of boosters got to do with anything? 
 

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

Which is more inferior? Anutin or Sinovac??

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, DBath said:

It’s much worse than that even. Too many on here will accuse you of being an ‘anti-vaxxer’, if you dare claim it should be a matter of choice. 
 

I would encourage anyone who wants vaccination to get vaccinated.
 

Personally, I have no desire to whatsoever. If that makes me an ‘anti-vaxxer’ then so be it.

 

What I find pathetic is how some people act like getting jabbed is some ‘badge of honor’. I wonder will they still feel that way when they reach booster number 9 or 10? ????????????

What I find pathetic is how some people justify their selfishness by claiming acting selfishly is their right.

[DBath]

2 hours ago, hotchilli said:

I think he reads the Beano... does that count?

What I find astounding is that ANYONE here would get behind this guy and support his position as he’s breaking wind in their face. 
 

It’s just blatant and textbook bias. 

[Kirb46Lam]

My entire family and I think it is ????

 

We all just got our first shot of MODERNA this morning. ???? ???? ????

 

We go back again in December on the 12th for the second shot 

 

Finally, Moderna ????

Edited November 14, 2021 by Kirb46Lam

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, WinterGael said:

This is just more Sinophobia on the part of western nations.  The Chinese vaccines are not inferior.  Just look at countries using mRNA vaccines and the rate of infection of fully vaccinated. 

 

 

I think the two Chinese made vaccines likely ARE inferior to the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines...

 

Inferior defined as -- I've never seen any credible studies/research on vaccine effectiveness that showed either Sinovac or Sinopharm OUTPERFORMING either Pfizer or Moderna, especially against the current Delta variant.

 

When the WHO approved both Sinovac and Sinopharm for use, based on data that preceded the wide spread of the Delta variant, both had lower rates of effectiveness against symptomatic infection and hospitalization than either Pfizer or Moderna. And the prior's performance surely has not improved against Delta.

 

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/covid-variant#INDvariant

 

Quote

the Pfizer vaccine seems very effective against the Delta variant. A study published by the University of Oxford in August 2021 showed that two doses of the Pfizer vaccine were 88% effective in preventing Covid-19 illness caused by the Delta variant.

 

Quote

A study carried out by the University of Oxford between mid-May and 1 August 2021, when Delta was dominant in the UK, showed that two doses of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine provided 67% protection against infection by Covid-19.

 

vs

 

https://fortune.com/2021/08/31/china-covid-vaccine-sinovac-sinopharm-delta-variant-effective/

 

Quote

The main Chinese vaccines appear to be working well against the Delta variant—but not as well as some of their foreign counterparts.

...

Still, new studies have questioned the efficacy of the Chinese vaccines in comparison with other vaccines from makers like Germany’s BioNTech, the U.S.’s Moderna, and the U.K.’s AstraZeneca.

The evidence has come out as more countries have begun to lessen their reliance on imports of Chinese vaccines.

 

There also hasn't been as much credible, publicly released data regarding the two Chinese vaccines against Delta as there has been for the western vaccines. And the Chinese manufacturers have consistently issued vague, general claims, often without providing any credible evidence to support them.

 

Here's one actual non-China research result cited in the above article:

 

Quote

 

A Brazilian preprint study published last week tracked 61 million people in Brazil from January to June, comparing infection, hospitalization, and death rates between unvaccinated individuals and those who received Sinovac or AstraZeneca jabs.

 

The study found that people fully inoculated with Sinovac reduced their risk of infection by 54% and risk of death by 74% compared with unvaccinated populations. Still, the AstraZeneca vaccine appeared to offer more protection, reducing the risk of infection by 70% and the risk of death by 90%.

 

 

So yes, I'd say the above clearly provides evidence to show the Chinese vaccines are "inferior" -- lower in rank, status, or quality, or in this case, effectiveness -- in performance to their western counterparts.

 

"Inferior" regarding the Chinese vaccines does NOT mean they're bad or they don't work at all... It just means, the credible scientific evidence thus says they don't work as well as the alternatives.

 

But no doubt, as the above article says, the Chinese vaccines are better than not getting vaccinated at all...

 

 

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

39 minutes ago, WinterGael said:

Personally,  I have always checked the vaccine available and rejected the mRNA vaccines.  Why?  Because there are concerns that these vaccines could have long term negative effects.

If you are taking account of those concerns then I would hope you've had a look at them to see if there is a genuine basis for being concerned.

 

So perhaps you could tell us what you found to be the biological mechanism that would cause such long term adverse effects?

[Dont confuse me]

He and his boss are the laughing stock on the international circuit.

But do they care? Of course not, they will simply smile and continuing raping the country until there's nothing left!

[onthedarkside]

A large number of posts have been removed here, including:

--an unsubstantiated claim about the origins of COVID

--unsubstantiated claims about COVID vaccines

--flame posts and personal comments against fellow forum members.

and various replies to the above.