Thai health officials told to discover why many still refuse to get vaccinated

[Chris.B]

8 minutes ago, ThePugAndMe said:

Why should we give kids a medicine that has known side effects (heart issues - there is nothing such as a mild case of myocarditis!) when they are virtually unaffected by Covid? To protect a bunch of old people who have already had a chance to get vaccines/boosters if they wished to? The ones that haven't got the vaccinated, have made their choice...

The Thai people respect and look after their elders and need no lectures from the likes of you. ☹️☹️

Edited November 23, 2021 by Chris.B

[arithai12]

11 hours ago, mokwit said:

Appreciate your information, but surely I have the personal right to avoid a certain vaccine? I want to get vaccinated, but would be more comfortable with AZ

So go and get it. I got two AZ in Jul/Sep, and did not even ask for it. Many farang friends got 2 Pfizers.

[arithai12]

31 minutes ago, TooMuchTime said:

...

Why waste limited vaccine supply on a large % of the population that has near 0 risk of dying from covid?

...

Because the supply at the moment is quite ample, and because people (including young ones) who are infected can spread it around even if they have near 0 risk of dying themselves.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

37 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

Because the supply at the moment is quite ample, and because people (including young ones) who are infected can spread it around even if they have near 0 risk of dying themselves.

 

And, the young who contract it can spread the virus to the older and at-risk family members and other populations -- more readily to the unvaccinated, but also to the already vaccinated albeit at much lesser risk.

 

The better mRNA vaccines very much protect against infection, but not 100%, and that applies especially among older people who tend to have less strong immune systems and may have a less robust response to their vaccinations, especially as time passes post vaccination.

 

 

[Sydebolle]

Blame it on those goons at the health ministry and the primus-inter-pares. Not available, now available at X Baht, now free and yes, we mix the vaccines like cocktails at Tiffany‘s. The health minister gets bounced off from enter Switzerland to attend a WHO meeting and now they are puzzled, why nobody believes these pr1cks? Really ?????

[Scott]

1 hour ago, ThePugAndMe said:

Before you roll your eyes and discredit everything he's saying - please look at the point he is making!

Why should we give kids a medicine that has known side effects (heart issues - there is nothing such as a mild case of myocarditis!) when they are virtually unaffected by Covid? To protect a bunch of old people who have already had a chance to get vaccines/boosters if they wished to? The ones that haven't got the vaccinated, have made their choice...

Covid-19 is primarily a vascular disease, so the heart is at risk.  If you are infected with Covid, your chances are much higher of getting myocarditis than from the vaccine:

 

Some studies have indicated an association between COVID-19 and myocarditis. What is added by this report? During March 2020–January 2021, patients with COVID-19 had nearly 16 times the risk for myocarditis compared with patients who did not have COVID-19, and risk varied by sex and age.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm#:~:text=Some studies have indicated an,by sex and age.

 

[richard_smith237]

7 hours ago, Russell17au said:

Sorry, but you are incorrect about the Astra-Zeneca because my wife's 21 year old daughter was forced to have Astra-Zeneca as her 1st jab by the university that she is attending and that happened last Thursday afternoon and early Friday morning we took her to hospital with severe side effects and early Friday afternoon she was transferred to ICU in a coma which was found to be caused by blood clots which is why originally Astra-Zeneca was not the be given to anyone under 60, but thankfully on Sunday the wife's daughter came out of the coma. The treating doctor told us that it was a good thing that we got her to the hospital early which gave them a chance to treat her which saved her life and the doctor also told the whole family not to get vaccinated with Astra-Zeneca because they do not know if there could be a genetic link that would cause problems with another family member 

I'm glad she is recovering. 

 

Did she suffer VITT (vaccine induced thrombotic thrombocytopenia), where the blood ‘mysteriously’ thins and plateless drop out of suspension causing a dangerous clot (usually in the brain). 

 

OR, did she suffer a more ‘conventional’ (if there is such a thing) thrombotic event, i.e. blood thickening a DVT which migrated to a blood clot somewhere on the brain ?

 

 

It's important to know because of susceptibility to Thrombosis for different reasons, i.e. a natural susceptibility or lifestyle susceptibility to blood thickening, DVT etc (in which case blood thinners may be considered) or vaccine induced blood thinning (in layman’s terms) in which case natural susceptibly to or ‘lifestyle is not a concern. 

 

 

If there is a potential susceptibility to VITT its not just AstraZeneca, its other vaccines with similar ‘ingredients’ as many vaccines such as tetanus, MMR etc are more alike than they are different.

 

 

Also, timing is not causation: I’m not suggesting this wasn’t VITT, only the experts, doctors, vascular neurologist and haematologists can confirm or deny this - But, I can point out that I know of two friends (in early 40’s) who have had a minor stroke in the past 12 months (both before taking any Covid-19 vaccines and long after taking any other vaccines for other diseases).

 

A final point: My father received his booster a month ago (Pfizer) a week later he was in hospital with a heart problem. As a layman it would have been easy for me to blame the vaccines, but I also have to consider that he is 80+ years old, scans / imagery shows that areas of his heart are simply starting to become less efficient and probably have been for some time, medication can help. The issue was not vaccine related although the timing looked suspicious until more facts were known.  

 

At 21, health issues are of course shocking and we look for reasons....   with so many people taking vaccines I wonder if when something does occur we look for answers and the ’new thing’ is identified and blamed when in reality that ‘issue’ was always going to occur. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[onthedarkside]

And further regarding the Pfizer vaccine for children ages 5 to 11 (as of Oct. 29):

 

"In addition, the [Pfizer] vaccine was found to be 90.7% effective in preventing COVID-19 in children 5 through 11.

 

Safety: The vaccine’s safety was studied in approximately 3,100 children age 5 through 11 who received the vaccine and no serious side effects have been detected in the ongoing study."

 

AND

 

"The FDA and CDC safety surveillance systems have previously identified increased risks of myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle) and pericarditis (inflammation of tissue surrounding the heart) following vaccination with Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, particularly following the second dose, and with the observed risk highest in males 12 through 17 years of age. ...

 

"Therefore, the FDA conducted its own benefit-risk assessment using modelling to predict how many symptomatic COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, intensive care unit (ICU) admissions and deaths from COVID-19 the vaccine in children 5 through 11 years of age would prevent versus the number of potential myocarditis cases, hospitalizations, ICU admissions and deaths that the vaccine might cause. The FDA’s model predicts that overall, the benefits of the vaccine would outweigh its risks in children 5 through 11 years of age."

 

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-authorizes-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-emergency-use-children-5-through-11-years-age

[Credo]

Personally, it's going to be interesting to see what happens when the Thai gov't demands that anyone staying in the Kingdom must be vaccinated.  I wonder how many people will pull up stakes, leave their wife and family and head back home?

 

I doubt they are going to demand that locals be vaccinated and give foreigners a free pass.

[mokwit]

1 hour ago, arithai12 said:

So go and get it. I got two AZ in Jul/Sep, and did not even ask for it. Many farang friends got 2 Pfizers.

In July Sept wasn't it just for the over 60's and high risk groups? Are you over 60 or in one of the high risk groups? If so don't extrapolate your ease of getting the vaccine to others.  Being under 60 I could have gone and got it by going to a clinic and getting them to "diagnose" me with hypertension or diabetes and then rolled up at the vaccination centre and bounced a genuine high risk person or over 60 from the Que like many others did, but I chose not to do that.

 

Also they are no longer offering just AZ it is now a mix of vaccines. 2x AZ was for over 60's/high risk for just a brief period - Jul/Sep if I remember rightly.

[mokwit]

2 hours ago, arithai12 said:

So go and get it. I got two AZ in Jul/Sep, and did not even ask for it. Many farang friends got 2 Pfizers.

So tell me WHERE as a Foreign National under 60 without high risk medical conditions and whose Embassy has not arranged vaccination I can get two shots of AZ - where I can just "go and get it"?. If you can't, then let me tell you in advance I am getting tired of these "just go and get it" posts (there is just oodles of vaccine lying around apparently - just walk in anywhere and you are done in 5 minutes).

Edited November 23, 2021 by mokwit

[kiwikeith]

16 hours ago, tonray said:

I know one lady (mother of GF)....i'll drop a dime on her for 10,000 baht but not less than that....a man has got expenses

The JF method won’t work but will stop spread. Seriously they most highly vaccinated countries are the ones experiencing huge new outbreaks

[kiwikeith]

41 minutes ago, Credo said:

Personally, it's going to be interesting to see what happens when the Thai gov't demands that anyone staying in the Kingdom must be vaccinated.  I wonder how many people will pull up stakes, leave their wife and family and head back home?

 

I doubt they are going to demand that locals be vaccinated and give foreigners a free pass.

The Air New Zealand vaccination passport 

 

A passenger boarded a few days ago, flew to Christchurch then back to Auckland where he was tested posted and infectious with Delta, creating panic in Christchurch as no COVID there, conclusion , vaccine passports are a crock full of it.

[mokwit]

3 hours ago, Chris.B said:

Up to you mate, but just don't go outside and start spreading the infection to others.

 

If people who could spread infection to others are the problem, then we should be testing for antibodies - people who have had 3x vaccinations and are not producing antibodies are the walking covid bombs and by the arguments made for the unvaccinated being confined to quarters, there is a far stronger argument for confining the non responders to quarters as there is some evidence that the virus mutates in the immunocompromised, whereas someone who is as yet unvaccinated could mount an adequate immune response unassisted by vaccination.

 

"non responders" I think that is what we should label them.

 

I'll say this, I couldn't watch Biden's speech beyond where he said "there is a group of 30 million people" Find a scapegoat for a problem you can't fix and demonise them - sound familiar? Oh yes, and if everybody is vaccinated there is no longer an unvaccinated control group to make comparisons with.

Edited November 23, 2021 by mokwit

[richard_smith237]

26 minutes ago, mokwit said:

If people who could spread infection to others are the problem, then we should be testing for antibodies - people who have had 3x vaccinations and are not producing antibodies are the walking covid bombs and by the arguments made for the unvaccinated being confined to quarters, there is a far stronger argument for confining the non responders to quarters as there is some evidence that the virus mutates in the immunocompromised, whereas someone who is as yet unvaccinated could mount an adequate immune response unassisted by vaccination.

 

"non responders" I think that is what we should label them.

 

I'll say this, I couldn't watch Biden's speech beyond where he said "there is a group of 30 million people" Find a scapegoat for a problem you can't fix and demonise them - sound familiar? Oh yes, and if everybody is vaccinated there is no longer an unvaccinated control group to make comparisons with.

Or just get vaccinated and do your best not to be a continued potential part of the problem. 

 

 

[mokwit]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Or just get vaccinated and do your best not to be a continued potential part of the problem. 

 

 

Vaccination is part of the solution, both for the individual and society. I intend to get vaccinated both to protect myself and as a civic duty - but I am not keen on novel, untested "vaccines" like mRNA "vaccines".  Usually with a therapeutic the type of side effects that take it off the market become evident over a much longer time period than we have experienced with mRNA vaccines. Two people at the FDA who were responsible for the Moderna vaccine approval now work for Moderna and the Moderna CEO was on CNBC virtually every day pumping his stock - I understand guest PAY to pump their stocks on CNBC.

 

NOW: So tell me WHERE as a Foreign National under 60 without high risk medical conditions and whose Embassy has not arranged vaccination I can "just get vaccinated". I mean specifically where is vaccine available - saying "your local hospital" won't cut it.

 

 

 

[mokwit]

13 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Or just get vaccinated and do your best not to be a continued potential part of the problem. 

 

 

I actually don't see how your "just get vaccinated" comment relates to the point I was making. The point I was making seems to have just gone over your head.

Edited November 23, 2021 by mokwit

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, ThePugAndMe said:

wasn't a study done in Wuhan done to show that asymptomatic spreading of the virus wasn't even a thing?

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4695

 

 

Yep, they got nothing to hide there have they!

[sirineou]

20 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Just victims of misinformation from ill-intended people. 

That about covers it.!! There has been a concerted effort to diminish China's influence in the world and . and the vaccine wars just another aspect of it. 

[peter zwart]

6 hours ago, Chris.B said:

Up to you mate, but just don't go outside and start spreading the infection to others.

 

As i hope the vaccinated will also not spread the virus :-). And if you are vaccinated you dont have to worry do you? No hard feelings. Enjoy the day mate.

[herfiehandbag]

17 hours ago, Thaifly88 said:

No access to any public areas including gyms, cinemas, shopping centres, condominiums. They can live like lepers outside the city areas and buy their food at designated roadside stalls. No further extensions to any type of visa's to the unvaccinated needs to be implemented ASAP.  

I think that you will find that the vast majority of the unvaccinated are amongst the rural population, or the urban poor. 

 

They resent being expected to take the less effective vaccines, whilst the more prestigious ones are openly available to more favoured sections of the population. I will quote: " Why should I have Sinovac - in the town they have AZ or Pfizer, if you are important you have Moderna!"

 

Because of where they live they have effectively no access to any public areas anyway, including gyms, cinemas, shopping centres, condominiums. They already live like lepers outside the city areas and buy their food at roadside stalls, markets, or grow their own!

 

They have long since realised that this government doesn't really care about them, and in turn don't care about what the government wants. It's a "disconnect" which is of the government's making. Photographs of uniformed officials standing to attention in front of backdrops rather sum it up!

Edited November 24, 2021 by herfiehandbag

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, mokwit said:

In July Sept wasn't it just for the over 60's and high risk groups? Are you over 60 or in one of the high risk groups? If so don't extrapolate your ease of getting the vaccine to others.  Being under 60 I could have gone and got it by going to a clinic and getting them to "diagnose" me with hypertension or diabetes and then rolled up at the vaccination centre and bounced a genuine high risk person or over 60 from the Que like many others did, but I chose not to do that.

If you'd been living in Chiang Mai, all foreigners over 18 years old were getting double Pfizer at Promanada free.

I had my second dose last week, no crowds and the biggest wait was the 30 minutes check to see you were OK after.

[overherebc]

18 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

SinoPharm and Sinovac are accepted internationally (in most countries).

 

Anutin's 'first hand experience' was a ruse to avoid going to a meeting in Switzerland. 

 

He’s had two doses of Sinovac and an AstraZenica booster. It was claimed by Anutin that this would not be accepted and he would have to quarantine for two weeks if he entered Switzerland so he chose not to go to the ‘WHO meeting’....  

 

However, a Thai Actress *(Ariya A Hargate) was soon targeted by social media asking how she could get into Switzerland (for a personal visit) with only a dual Sinopharm vaccination when Anutin couldn’t, her response was to post the entry requirements of Switzerland online. 

 

Turns out there was nothing official preventing entry for Anutin - he needed to apply for a EU Digital Covid Pass.....  

 

After initial online ridicule that he [Anutin] was ‘refused’ entry things suddenly went quiet in the news and media.

 

Some one has been telling big porkie pies !!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

[PremiumLane]

18 hours ago, stephenterry said:

Total rubbish. Anyone can and does contract infection even those who have been vaxxed threefold.

vaccinations greatly reduced the risk of being infected, sorry but you argument is based on a false premise that they are some magic bullet that instantly stops infection, scientist have never said that.

 

They do reduce the risk of becoming infected, they do reduce how contagious you are if you do become infected, and they massively reduce the hospitalization rates. Those are facts.

 

I think a lot of Thais who aren't vaccinated are because they don't want Sinovac, and what the better quality vaccines. Seems anti-vax stupidity is mostly from westerners. 

[Scott]

4 hours ago, mokwit said:

If people who could spread infection to others are the problem, then we should be testing for antibodies - people who have had 3x vaccinations and are not producing antibodies are the walking covid bombs and by the arguments made for the unvaccinated being confined to quarters, there is a far stronger argument for confining the non responders to quarters as there is some evidence that the virus mutates in the immunocompromised, whereas someone who is as yet unvaccinated could mount an adequate immune response unassisted by vaccination.

 

"non responders" I think that is what we should label them.

 

I'll say this, I couldn't watch Biden's speech beyond where he said "there is a group of 30 million people" Find a scapegoat for a problem you can't fix and demonise them - sound familiar? Oh yes, and if everybody is vaccinated there is no longer an unvaccinated control group to make comparisons with.

The immunocompromised are no more likely to produce mutations of the virus than any other group.  As a matter of fact, they are more likely to get serious ill and die more quickly. 

 

Immunocompromised people usually know they have a condition that puts them at risk and are taking extra precautions.  It is not just Covid that is a threat to them.  

 

Elderly people also generally have poorly performing immune systems.  It's a part of the aging process, but again, they are more likely to get seriously ill. 

 

I doubt either of these groups are a large driver of super spreader events.  

 

[jackdd]

5 hours ago, mokwit said:

So tell me WHERE as a Foreign National under 60 without high risk medical conditions and whose Embassy has not arranged vaccination I can get two shots of AZ - where I can just "go and get it"?. If you can't, then let me tell you in advance I am getting tired of these "just go and get it" posts (there is just oodles of vaccine lying around apparently - just walk in anywhere and you are done in 5 minutes).

I don't know about 2*AZ, but how about AZ+Pfizer? For example at CentralPlaza Airport Chiang Mai

https://www.facebook.com/NakornpingHospitalChiangmai/posts/1324628667988417

[mokwit]

2 minutes ago, jackdd said:

I don't know about 2*AZ, but how about AZ+Pfizer? For example at CentralPlaza Airport Chiang Mai

https://www.facebook.com/NakornpingHospitalChiangmai/posts/1324628667988417

Thanks for the info - earlier this am I was able to get accepted by AIS for AZ and Pfizer in Bangkok - not wild about mRNA but getting vaccinated is the most important and I am not in the mRNA reaction high risk group.

[PEE TEE]

It could be that many people feel they are being put on trial as the vaccines have not had time to be made safe. I have 2 AZ and taken the chance 

[mokwit]

14 minutes ago, Scott said:

The immunocompromised are no more likely to produce mutations of the virus than any other group.  As a matter of fact, they are more likely to get serious ill and die more quickly. 

 

Immunocompromised people usually know they have a condition that puts them at risk and are taking extra precautions.  It is not just Covid that is a threat to them.  

 

Elderly people also generally have poorly performing immune systems.  It's a part of the aging process, but again, they are more likely to get seriously ill. 

 

I doubt either of these groups are a large driver of super spreader events.  

 

Video about the evolution SARS-CoV-2 released by the National Institute of Health (US Govt Agency)

Title: Evolutionary Dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 Dr. Bedford shares insights that radically change earlier major miscalculations on the mutation rate of the virus.

 

9:12 Emerging hypothesis the primary driver driving increased adaptive capacity in SARS-CoV 2 is within host mutation in immunocompromised individuals

 

20:40 - SARS-COV2 rapidly evolving now 5x faster than the flu

 

[BadSpottedDog]

The solution to prevent overloading hospitals, is to stop hospitalizing every person who tests positive. Most other countries are doing this. All of my many friends who have had covid, have recovered/quarantined at home. While here in Thailand, anyone who tests positive is whisked away to a hospital for 2 weeks. Even if they're asymptomatic or even if it's a false positive. (refer to previous article on Asean Now about the foreigner forced to hospitalize just for being exposed to someone positive).

Edited November 24, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed