Laminate/Vinyl/Tile ?

[Yellowtail]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I saw this in several (not Thai) videos about tiles. A friend had tiling done in Thailand and it seems all the contractors told him that is not the way they do it (in Thailand).

Do you know if self leveling concrete is used by many, or at least some, contractors in Thailand? 

 

Personally I know only the theory. It seems to me self leveling concrete has the big advantage that it can be seen that the floor is level before anything is installed on top of it. I.e. with tiles if they are not properly installed that does not mean it looks bad right from the start. It may take some time (long after the payment) that tiles get lose... 

Self leveling concrete in the US because it's much faster and easier than conventional methods, not because it's better. 

 

All things the same, tile laid on self-leveled concrete do not stick any better than tile laid on conventional concrete. 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Self leveling concrete in the US because it's much faster and easier than conventional methods, not because it's better. 

 

All things the same, tile laid on self-leveled concrete do not stick any better than tile laid on conventional concrete. 

Thanks. I am no expert (or even amateur) in this so I just listen.

I think the idea/advantage of self leveling concrete is to make sure all is perfectly level before installing any tiles. As far as I understand if the concrete is not level then it can/should be leveled before the actual tiling. Because if the leveling is done together with the tiling and it is not done correctly then the (expensive) tiles have to be removed again. That should obviously be avoided. That's the way I understand the concept.

[DaLa]

12 hours ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Are expansion gaps not only required on new builds, surely when the building has 'settled' there's little or very minimal movement?

Sorry, should have been more clear with my post, Sometimewoodworker has explained in his reply to you and I agree, it's regarding the movement (expansion and contraction) of the wooden flooring. If they don't leave a gap when fitting the wood expands and the only place for the wood to go is upwards! That is you have a nice 'hump' in the middle of your room. 

 

Makes for an interesting conversation when friends visit.

[Yellowtail]

8 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks. I am no expert (or even amateur) in this so I just listen.

I think the idea/advantage of self leveling concrete is to make sure all is perfectly level before installing any tiles. As far as I understand if the concrete is not level then it can/should be leveled before the actual tiling. Because if the leveling is done together with the tiling and it is not done correctly then the (expensive) tiles have to be removed again. That should obviously be avoided. That's the way I understand the concept.

How well the tiles stick depend a lot on how flat the surface is, and not at all on how level the surface is. 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

How well the tiles stick depend a lot on how flat the surface is, and not at all on how level the surface is. 

Isn't the idea to have them flat and level and the tiles should be attached to the ground evenly everywhere?

At least that is what I learned in YouTube videos, i.e. this one:

How To Layout And Install Large Format Tile On Concrete - YouTube

 

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Isn't the idea to have them flat and level and the tiles should be attached to the ground evenly everywhere?

At least that is what I learned in YouTube videos, i.e. this one:

How To Layout And Install Large Format Tile On Concrete - YouTube

 

If tiles have to be level to stick, why is it wall tiles don't all fall off? 

 

If tiles have to be level to stick, how is it water drains in my shower? 

 

If the surface is flat, adding self leveling concrete will only make the tiles higher, it will not make them stick better.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

If tiles have to be level to stick, why is it wall tiles don't all fall off? 

 

If tiles have to be level to stick, how is it water drains in my shower? 

 

If the surface is flat, adding self leveling concrete will only make the tiles higher, it will not make them stick better.

 

ok, ok, I get your point.

But how about if the surface is not flat? Is it not a good idea to make sure the surface is flat (and maybe also level) before any tiles are installed?

[HashBrownHarry]

13 hours ago, topt said:

The floor layer I used in the UK a month ago was recommending this.

Unfortunately it was at least 50% more expensive than ordinary laminate but he reckoned was worth the extra as you could not scrape the top surface off - which is so easy to do with laminate as my previous tenants showed.........

This is easy to remove tho, it's not glued to the floor, all they did was put down a thin layer of insulation ( foam ), very easy to remove.

 

As with many things in Thailand when changing something out it reveals the poor workmanship, in this case uneven floor...

[Yellowtail]

20 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

ok, ok, I get your point.

But how about if the surface is not flat? Is it not a good idea to make sure the surface is flat (and maybe also level) before any tiles are installed?

 

What do you mean by flat? But yes, you should determine how flat your floor is before you start. A competent tile-setter does this. 

 

What do you mean by level? A lot depends on how far out of level the floor is, and why you want to make it level. A 5m X 10m floor that's 2cm out from one end to the other requires 500l (1,200kg) of concrete/mortar to make level. Also, if you're tiling a bath or terrace, you don't want it level, you want it to drain. Again, a competent tile-setter does this as well.

 

 

 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

 

What do you mean by flat? But yes, you should determine how flat your floor is before you start. A competent tile-setter does this. 

 

What do you mean by level? A lot depends on how far out of level the floor is, and why you want to make it level. A 5m X 10m floor that's 2cm out from one end to the other requires 500l (1,200kg) of concrete/mortar to make level. Also, if you're tiling a bath or terrace, you don't want it level, you want it to drain. Again, a competent tile-setter does this as well.

Thanks for all your info. Let me explain my thoughts:

 

a) I want to be able to recognize a competent tile setter. In general I am good in DIY but I have no personal experience with tiles. If I talk with someone I want to have an idea what he should know and what he should do.

 

b) I see here often enough the following problems:

- Tiles are not installed evenly or flat, I am not sure about the term. I.e. if you have tiles which look like mirrors then often they are in angles to each other (maybe a degree up or down) and the whole floor does not look like a mirror, it looks like lots of unaligned mirrors. Obviously that is not as easy to see with tiles which don't have a mirror finish but it explains my concern.

- Tiles are (after some time) lose. It seems one reason for that is that the cement under the tiles was not evenly spread when they were installed. And if the floor is not flat to start with then this is, as far as I see, a bigger problem.

 

This is just a picture which I found on the internet. I think it shows the problem.

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

- Tiles are not installed evenly or flat, I am not sure about the term

Wasn't a problem with my tiling, problem was a few slightly different coloured tiles mixed in from a different batch number, which the fool didn't notice when he was laying them.

[DaLa]

4 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

If tiles have to be level to stick, why is it wall tiles don't all fall off? 

 

If tiles have to be level to stick, how is it water drains in my shower? 

 

If the surface is flat, adding self leveling concrete will only make the tiles higher, it will not make them stick better.

 

I agree, tiles can be laid anywhere from 0 to 90 degrees and on a ceiling if you so wish. Even on a curve which by definition means the surface doesn't even have to be flat.  In my experience the Thais  and other workers from the surrounding countries are very proficient in tiling. An American friend of mine had his 25 metre hallway tiled by some ladies from Myanmar and when you view them at an angle there is absolutely no deflection in the entire length which means they are as near perfectly flat as possible.

[DaLa]

29 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Wasn't a problem with my tiling, problem was a few slightly different coloured tiles mixed in from a different batch number, which the fool didn't notice when he was laying them.

I used to run a construction company many moons ago and we undertook every trade ( mainly re-furbishment and extensions).  I took on one 'budget' job and the customer couldn't make a decision if his life depended on it.  S/he was tasked with deciding on tiles for the bathroom and after  the momentous and arduous task of contemplating the options decided on white.  Off to Wikes for 40 sq M ( told you it was a budget job) of tiles , as you say with all the same batch number and 2 days later the job was complete.

 

Customer came to view the work and declared there was too much of a 'blue tinge' to the tiles that didn't match the bath (fibreglass polyester) white and the basin+loo (porcelain) white.

[Yellowtail]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks for all your info. Let me explain my thoughts:

 

a) I want to be able to recognize a competent tile setter. In general I am good in DIY but I have no personal experience with tiles. If I talk with someone I want to have an idea what he should know and what he should do.

Unless you speak fluent Thai as well as a few other languages you are not going to talk to the tile-setter, the best you can hope for is to talk to the salesman.

 

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

b) I see here often enough the following problems:

- Tiles are not installed evenly or flat, I am not sure about the term. I.e. if you have tiles which look like mirrors then often they are in angles to each other (maybe a degree up or down) and the whole floor does not look like a mirror, it looks like lots of unaligned mirrors. Obviously that is not as easy to see with tiles which don't have a mirror finish but it explains my concern.

You will need to watch them. They should be checking each tile with a strait-edge and level. 

 

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

- Tiles are (after some time) lose. It seems one reason for that is that the cement under the tiles was not evenly spread when they were installed. And if the floor is not flat to start with then this is, as far as I see, a bigger problem.

This is generally the biggest problem. Again, you have to watch them. They should be dampening the tiles, and using a notched trowel apply the thin-set/mortar to the floor, and except on small tiles, they should be back-buttering each tile. After setting, they should be checking the sound of each one to make sure there are no voids. 

 

When you get a quote, make sure it is detailed and includes an itemized list of material, and it should be clear on what is included and what is not. Select your tile and figure out what you want before you start getting quotes. 

 

Make sure the quote is absolutely clear, and that it describes exactly what you want before you start negotiating the price. The last thing you want to do when you hammer a guy down is have him cheap out your job.

 

You seem like a bright guy. You should be able to go to Boonthavorn with your girlfriend and figure out what and how much of everything you need, and about what it will all cost. The cost of tile varies wildly. Make sure you know what tile you want and what LAYOUT you want. Learn all this before you start getting quotes.

 

Setting tile is not complex, but everything is heavy and it is HARD work.

 

[sezze]

Tiles , got them in all kinds of sizes , designs , prices , colors , slip or non slip ... the sky is the limit . You can even find them looking like nice wood laminate , including the grain for make it non slippery . If you near a big city , check Boonthavorn , they got a very large selection especially for the more exotic ones ( the superlarge , full ceramic , ....)

 

[NanLaew]

On 12/6/2021 at 8:06 PM, Yellowtail said:

Not the hotels I've stayed in, or the movie theaters I've been in, or to offices I've worked in, or my house or any number of other places I've been. 

 

Biggest concern with carpet here is flooding, which I assume is not a concern in a condo. 

The problem with carpet anywhere is when you get right down close to eye-level with it, regardless of your vacuum cleaner being the latest Dyson, the amount of pubic hairs, KFC breading crumbs and toenail clippings is simply disgusting.

[NanLaew]

On 12/7/2021 at 2:34 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks for all your info. Let me explain my thoughts:

 

a) I want to be able to recognize a competent tile setter. In general I am good in DIY but I have no personal experience with tiles. If I talk with someone I want to have an idea what he should know and what he should do.

 

b) I see here often enough the following problems:

- Tiles are not installed evenly or flat, I am not sure about the term. I.e. if you have tiles which look like mirrors then often they are in angles to each other (maybe a degree up or down) and the whole floor does not look like a mirror, it looks like lots of unaligned mirrors. Obviously that is not as easy to see with tiles which don't have a mirror finish but it explains my concern.

- Tiles are (after some time) lose. It seems one reason for that is that the cement under the tiles was not evenly spread when they were installed. And if the floor is not flat to start with then this is, as far as I see, a bigger problem.

 

This is just a picture which I found on the internet. I think it shows the problem.

 

Yyp, that's our lounge/living floor for sure. I lifted the nine tiles in the heaviest traffic area (the one that had cracked + the ones on each side/corner) that were 'popping' the most, ground out the old cement, laid the new and laid them back down. That alone was a one-day job (including the dust management).

 

Now, about ten months later, three or four tiles in the second most heavily trafficked area are letting their looseness be loudly known.

 

Mrs NL says we need to do the whole lounge/living area over and I agree as getting tile matches after fifteen years will be impossible.

 

Meanwhile, did I mention I am doing ANOTHER laminate floor in my new office? This is going over the existing ugly tile. All-in about 5000 baht + change for 6 boxes and a roll of foam backing. Only a half-day's work and no need for an overpaid and indolent local artisan to <deleted> it up either.

[Yellowtail]

14 hours ago, NanLaew said:

The problem with carpet anywhere is when you get right down close to eye-level with it, regardless of your vacuum cleaner being the latest Dyson, the amount of pubic hairs, KFC breading crumbs and toenail clippings is simply disgusting.

Yeah, it's not often I find myself waking up on the floor of a brothel or a fast-food restaurant, nor do clip my nails over the carpet, but that's just me. 

 

 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Yeah, it's not often I find myself waking up on the floor of a brothel or a fast-food restaurant, nor do clip my nails over the carpet, but that's just me. 

What do you mean by "not often"? ???? 

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What do you mean by "not often"? ???? 

Yeah, I guess "recently" would have been a better choice of words. 

 

In any event, I wonder if that same people that don't like carpet because (they think) it's hard to keep clean, don't wear white underwear for the same reason....

 

Good carpet is generally cheaper and easier to maintain than vinyl.  

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Good carpet is generally cheaper and easier to maintain than vinyl. 

Is it?

Personally I never looked at the details when I had a carpet. And in Thailand I never had one.

But I remember the stories from Hoover sales guys. It seems they visited people at home and asked for permission to demonstrate the newest Hoover vacuum cleaners. And it seems the usual result was that these (expensive) vacuum cleaners were able to get a lot more dirt out of carpets which were just recently cleaned with other, cheaper, vacuum cleaners. 

It seems that proves that there is a lot of dirt in many carpets which is never removed. And "dirt" obviously means also little crawling creatures. 

[Yellowtail]

39 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Is it?

Yes