Thai waiters/waitresses spreading Covid19.....

[SunsetT]

12 minutes ago, rwill said:

Is that any different from restaurants in other countries?

Yes. In the UK, you order your drinks which are brought to the table by the glass from the bar. Then later you order another if required which is also brought in a clean glass to the table. Hopefully hand washing/sanitising occurs more often then with no flitting from table to table. With wine by the bottle, waiter may pour the first then you pour own at the table, probable exception being a r s e h o l e   hi-sole  restaurants.

[cardinalblue]

23 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

How come?  Vaccinations don't stop you from passing on the virus to others!

True but it’s a numbers game….first 3 weeks of 2nd testing of vaccinated air travelers showed .08% positive 2nd test…and of that sub population, for them to infect others is very low…people are going to die on the road…why haven’t you stopped road travel? because it’s a very low probability game that you are willing to play….vaccination significantly improves your odds like wearing a seatbelt….

[LukKrueng]

On 12/11/2021 at 1:56 PM, SunsetT said:

It has just occurred to me (im a bit slow) that the Thai cultural norm of having waiters and waitresses flitting from restaurant/bar table to table filling and topping up customers' glasses must potentially spread the virus between tables and customers. Im surprised that it has not been banned.

Enough with the stupid panic!!!

Currently 0.07% of the population of Thailand is "infected" with covid 19 (active cases/ population). If you happen to be next to a really infected person (not just pcr positive that we should all know by now means nothing) AND get infected AND get seriously sick (0.0019% of the population)  you should run out and buy a lottery ticket. 

 

Below is the stats from worldmeter.info today, 12 Dec 2021.

[LukKrueng]

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

But they do reduce the probability of both catching and spreading the virus.

 

 

Yes, from the 0.29% (total active cases around the world) to what? 0.27% (at 95% protection as claimed by some vaccine manufacturers)?

As someone already mentioned above - wrap yourself in cotton and plastic bag and house under the bed. That'll give 100% protection from everything (sickness, accidents, bad marriage, crimes against you - you name it) 

[Ryan754326]

23 hours ago, Pravda said:

Sometimes I'm scared I'll catch covid if I quote the post 

You can greatly reduce that risk if you avoid quoting people who aren’t wearing a mask in their profile picture. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Ryan754326

[Tropposurfer]

23 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

the Wichita linesmen ????

Yeah those bu..ers are so prolific theres a darn song about them !

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Vaccinations do not prevent anyone from passing on the virus to others!  The probabilty of a symptomatic or non-symptomatic infected person infecting others is not reduced by virtue of being vaccinated.

Says who?

 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/

 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Chomper Higgot

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, SunsetT said:

Totally irrelevant! If a waiter is vaccinated or not he can still transmit the virus by hand from the contaminated glass of an infected customer to the glass of another customer.

If a waiter is vaccinated, s/he is less likely to be infected, less likely to have a breakthrough infection, and will recover in a shorter period.

 

Less likely to be infected and infected for a shorter period = less likely to be infectious at any given time.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

2 hours ago, SunsetT said:

Totally irrelevant! If a waiter is vaccinated or not he can still transmit the virus by hand from the contaminated glass of an infected customer to the glass of another customer.

If a waiter is vaccinated, s/he is less likely to be infected, less likely to have a breakthrough infection, and will recover in a shorter period.

 

Less likely to be infected and infected for a shorter period = less likely to be infectious at any given time.

 

 

I am so frequently amazed by this forum that this actually needs to be mentioned so many times....

 

Really, how difficult is it to understand that that more vaccines means more people are less likely to be infectious at any given time?.....  

 

Is this concept really that difficult to understand? I just don’t get how many people are struggling with this simple fact. 

[LukKrueng]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I am so frequently amazed by this forum that this actually needs to be mentioned so many times....

 

Really, how difficult is it to understand that that more vaccines means more people are less likely to be infectious at any given time?.....  

 

Is this concept really that difficult to understand? I just don’t get how many people are struggling with this simple fact. 

Tell that to the people of Tonga who managed to stay with 0 covid cases until a fully vaxed New Zealander came for a visit and managed to bring the delta variant with him

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I am so frequently amazed by this forum that this actually needs to be mentioned so many times....

 

Really, how difficult is it to understand that that more vaccines means more people are less likely to be infectious at any given time?.....  

 

Is this concept really that difficult to understand? I just don’t get how many people are struggling with this simple fact. 

Expand  

Tell that to the people of Tonga who managed to stay with 0 covid cases until a fully vaxed New Zealander came for a visit and managed to bring the delta variant with him

Do you still need it explained to you ???

 

No one is saying or suggesting that vaccinated people ‘cannot’ or ‘do not’ spread Covid-19...  However, there is less transmission within a vaccinated community than an unvaccinated community.

 

There will always be examples with any illness with any vaccine that a vaccinated person transmitted a disease - this is not proof that vaccines are ineffective.

 

How is it that this is such a struggle for some people to understand ?

 

 

It can be explained to you, but it can’t be understood for you, you’ll have to engage the grey matter and think, just a little bit should do it, it's not a difficult concept.

[ThaiSmarterThanYou]

Who is smart enough to go to restaurants during a pandemic maybe deserves the best (or worst)...

[fjb 24]

This was reported in the NY Times on December 11, 2021:

"Two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine appeared to offer virtually no protection against symptomatic infection caused by Omicron several months after vaccination. But for those recipients, an additional Pfizer-BioNTech dose paid big dividends, boosting effectiveness against the variant to 71 percent"

The implications of this if true could be profound in the countries that administer AstraZeneca and specifically in Thailand's case close to 50% of the injections have been AZ.

Currently in the pipeline (phase II/III trials) are 2nd Gen vaccines, extensively reworked to address vaccine-resistant mutations in Europe and America with earliest availability in Q1 2023.

Edited December 12, 2021 by fjb 24

[SunsetT]

Calm down everyone, calm down!

 

Thank you for all your replies even though many of which about the effectiveness of vaccines and if and how they prevent transmission is totally irrelevant to my observation.

 

Cheers now, Im off to the bar/restaurant to get the best table to perv over the waitresses as they flit from table to table....555.

[connda]

Fearful people should simply avoid restaurants if the wait staff makes them feel uncomfortable.  And if they go to a restaurant by vehicle, they should factor in the dangers of driving on Thai roads where over 12,000 have died on the road and countless tens of thousands injured.  It's best to stay safely at home, masked.

[ifmu]

On 12/11/2021 at 2:01 PM, georgegeorgia said:

snip

 

you remind me of the guy in the gym yesterday,came over near me to use a machine and complained i had no mask on,<deleted> stop coming to the gym i told him if ya that paranoid

you cant think of anything else to say  .. like oh sorry  .. no you had to be a jerk

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, SunsetT said:

Calm down everyone, calm down!

 

Thank you for all your replies even though many of which about the effectiveness of vaccines and if and how they prevent transmission is totally irrelevant to my observation.

 

Cheers now, Im off to the bar/restaurant to get the best table to perv over the waitresses as they flit from table to table....555.

“the effectiveness of vaccines and if and how they prevent transmission is totally irrelevant to my observation.”

 

The effectiveness of vaccines and if and how they prevent transmission is totally relevant to my observation.

 

That you don’t understand the relevance does not negate the relevance.

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Chomper Higgot

[SunsetT]

44 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

“the effectiveness of vaccines and if and how they prevent transmission is totally irrelevant to my observation.”

 

The effectiveness of vaccines and if and how they prevent transmission is totally relevant to my observation.

 

That you don’t understand the relevance does not negate the relevance.

 

 

 

So you seriously believe that a waiter who has been vaccinated is somehow less likely to carry the virus on the skin of his hand from an infected customer's contaminated glass or bottle  to another customer's than a waiter who has not been vaccinated?

Edited December 12, 2021 by SunsetT

[Chomper Higgot]

43 minutes ago, SunsetT said:

So you seriously believe that a waiter who has been vaccinated is somehow less likely to carry the virus on the skin of his hand from an infected customer's contaminated glass or bottle  to another customer's than a waiter who has not been vaccinated?

A waiter who is vaccinated is less likely to be infected than a waiter who is not.

 

A waiter who is vaccinated but still gets infected will remain infected for a shorter time than a waiter who is not vaccinated.

 

Less likely to be infected and if infected will remain so for a shorter period.

 

You did do math at school?

[richard_smith237]

50 minutes ago, SunsetT said:

So you seriously believe that a waiter who has been vaccinated is somehow less likely to carry the virus on the skin of his hand from an infected customer's contaminated glass or bottle  to another customer's than a waiter who has not been vaccinated?

You have selectively cherry picked out a 1 in 10,000* chance of transmission to make your point ignoring the fact that transmission occurs through other sources. 

 

 

And while specific fomite transmission is not actually impacted by whether someone is vaccinated or not you completely omit the reality that the glass or bottle is less likely to be contaminated in the first place in a community of vaccinated people.

 

 

Now... IF we ignore the fact that fomite transmission is such a slim possibility and concentrate on that and that alone....  IF a waiter (vaccinated or not, it doesn’t matter), handles a contaminated glass or bottle, doesn’t wash his hands, takes another glass to another customer which ‘potentially’ transfers some virus on to that glass, then a customer drinks from that glass the customer, if vaccinated is still less likely to contract Covid-19 than a customer who is not vaccinated. 

 

Even in your scenario, vaccination still matters....

 

 

 

 

 

 *according to the CDC - links already posted a couple of times earlier on in this thread. 

[SunsetT]

18 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A waiter who is vaccinated is less likely to be infected than a waiter who is not.

 

A waiter who is vaccinated but still gets infected will remain infected for a shorter time than a waiter who is not vaccinated.

 

Less likely to be infected and if infected will remain so for a shorter period.

 

You did do math at school?

I dont care about the f e k k i n waiter or whether he becomes infected. The transmission of the virus from glass to glass does not require or involve 'infection' of the waiter! The virus can be passed on directly simply with his f e k k i n hand without he himself becoming infected! Dont you get that? His vaccination status is totally irrelevant!

Edited December 12, 2021 by SunsetT

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, SunsetT said:

I dont care about the f e k k i n waiter or whether he becomes infected. The transmission of the virus from glass to glass does not require or involve 'infection' of the waiter! The virus can be passed on directly simply with his f e k k i n hand without he himself becoming infected! Dont you get that? His vaccination status is totally irrelevant!

CDC advice on how minimal this risk is has already been posted.

 

The transmission path you need to worry about is airborne and the safe and effective means to reduce the chances of infection, serious illness, hospitalization and death is vaccination.

 

If the minor risk bothers you, don’t go to restaurants.

 

But if the risk of infection by any means bothers you, definitely get the vaccine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Chomper Higgot

[fjb 24]

13 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You did do math at school?

I did math (a lot) at Perdue and come up with 75% of omicron infections are in fully vaccinated Danes so far. Todays report has same values. Its simple arithmetic and you should be able to comprehend.. That's only just a sample, similar scenarios are playing out everywhere now. SARS-CoV-2 is evolving into vaccine-resistant mutations in Europe and America. Get that thru your head and see it for what it is! 7 day covid death rates are higher in Thailand (62% vaccinated) compared to R-SA (26% vaccinated).

Denmark covid 19 Dec 10 report.pdf

[richard_smith237]

18 minutes ago, SunsetT said:

I dont care about the f e k k i n waiter or whether he becomes infected. The transmission of the virus from glass to glass does not require or involve 'infection' of the waiter! The virus can be passed on directly simply with his f e k k i n hand without he himself becoming infected! Dont you get that? His vaccination status is totally irrelevant!

You are concentrating on a minute facet of transmission... 

 

..... its like arguing that someone travelling down a mountain road in a car without brakes is more likely to crash because their tires are 2psi under-pressure.

 

Of course, in your ’singular facet of transmission’ the vaccination status of the waiter is not relevant, but when looking at the ‘bigger picture’ the whole argument is not relevant because transmission in the manner you describe is so rare the whole point is moot and you are arguing the minute details of something which is unlikely to happen in the first place. 

 

 

 

 

[SunsetT]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You have selectively cherry picked out a 1 in 10,000* chance of transmission to make your point ignoring the fact that transmission occurs through other sources. 

 

 

And while specific fomite transmission is not actually impacted by whether someone is vaccinated or not you completely omit the reality that the glass or bottle is less likely to be contaminated in the first place in a community of vaccinated people.

 

 

Now... IF we ignore the fact that fomite transmission is such a slim possibility and concentrate on that and that alone....  IF a waiter (vaccinated or not, it doesn’t matter), handles a contaminated glass or bottle, doesn’t wash his hands, takes another glass to another customer which ‘potentially’ transfers some virus on to that glass, then a customer drinks from that glass the customer, if vaccinated is still less likely to contract Covid-19 than a customer who is not vaccinated. 

 

Even in your scenario, vaccination still matters....

 

 

 

 

 

 *according to the CDC - links already posted a couple of times earlier on in this thread. 

I didnt 'cherry pick' anything! I simply posted something that occurred to me of the possibility, albeit probably slim, of transmission of the virus in a quite specific way in a very real Thai bar/restaurant scenario! Not sure I accept your 'cherry picked' CDC  1-10,000 chance of fomite transmission which would be a mean figure covering all situations. My 'cherry picked' point is that the way Thai waiting staff work 'flitting from table to table' in a potentially crowded bar/restaurant could significantly increase that chance of fomite transmission. That was the whole point of my thread and Ive learned a lot about fomite transmission.

 

Chomper Higgot please note..................

 

 "IF a waiter (vaccinated or not, it doesn’t matter), handles a contaminated glass or bottle..."  THANK YOU!

[Meat Pie 47]

I don't really want to get involved in your arguments where I live nobody ever got infected by the virus by transmission of any objects and we haven't had local transmissions for about 2 years every thing is open and normal

[SunsetT]

38 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The transmission path you need to worry about is airborne

I already stated that. 

 

Thanks for the advice but Im double-vaxed, not worried, and not bothered, Im simply making an observation and sharing it.

 

Good night!

 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by SunsetT

[Scott]

Touching is not a common form of transmission, as noted by other posters, but it's probably worth noting because it is possible.  

 

I suspect the viability of the virus starts dropping rather soon after it is out of a host-friendly environment. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

Flitting?

Thai waiters?

Pics or it doesn't happen.

[Lucky dog]

COVID is not transmitted from surface to surface.

Nobody wears surgical mask and all others have 0 perfection while surgical mask give 11%.

So basically stay away from indoor crowded areas.

Common Sense really.