ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[gargamon]

43 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You can't blame 'user error' on the product.  Fire was a result of a crash.

The starting of the fire wasn't the problem. Putting it out was. Almost impossible.

[KhunLA]

14 minutes ago, gargamon said:

The starting of the fire wasn't the problem. Putting it out was. Almost impossible.

Keep spinning ... some fires are for different reasons.   Actually the fumes were the main concern, if you actually read a report of the fire.   Fumes always a concern with many fires of different chemicals.

 

Apparently nothing wrong with the product, and as usually, people & user error, but hey ... all EVs are bad.  We get it.

 

IGNORANCE IS BLISS

have a nice day

[JBChiangRai]

EV batteries are found to last 20 years or more.  5,000 data sample.

 

Electric car batteries last 20 years or more and can 'comfortably outlast the usable life of the vehicle' (msn.com)

[josephbloggs]

Ford's CEO and CFO went to China to try their EVs. They were quite honest about how good they are and how far behind they are.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-ceo-cfo-left-shocked-after-chinese-ev-test-drive-2024-9

So Ford openly admit it, Musk has openly admitted how good BYD (and other Chinese makes) are. UBS Research tore a BYD Seal down and reported on the extremely high quality of it. European and American governments are aware of the threat hence imposing massive import duties. Yet still on here we read comments like "Made in China, will fall apart", "Chinese junk", "Chinese death traps" etc. Bigoted. Ignorant. Ill informed.

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Ford's CEO and CFO went to China to try their EVs. They were quite honest about how good they are and how far behind they are.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-ceo-cfo-left-shocked-after-chinese-ev-test-drive-2024-9

So Ford openly admit it, Musk has openly admitted how good BYD (and other Chinese makes) are. UBS Research tore a BYD Seal down and reported on the extremely high quality of it. European and American governments are aware of the threat hence imposing massive import duties. Yet still on here we read comments like "Made in China, will fall apart", "Chinese junk", "Chinese death traps" etc. Bigoted. Ignorant. Ill informed.

 

Note, this article is not behind a paywall but you will need to open without adblocker or in InPrivate window.

 

Great article & thank you.

[KhunLA]

@DavisH   "EV's are supposed to be better right? So why settle for less?"

_________________________________________________________

 

My reason, because they (BEV)  perform better, and less expensive to operate & maintain.

 

Best reason ... I don't support the monopoly of big oil, or have to go to the station to top up every week or 2 or 4, or ever, unless out of town.

 

INDEPENDENCE IS BLISS

[KhunLA]

@ExpatOilWorker Down 69% ... 

 

source

[ExpatOilWorker]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

@ExpatOilWorker Down 69% ... 

 

source

Yeah, collapsing EV sales in Germany 🇩🇪. 

Soon that accumulating chart of your will start to flatten out.

We have had 5 of 8 months of YOY falling sales in Thailand, despite subsidies and a very aggressive price war. 

Thailand 🇹🇭 is 4-5 years behind Germany, but things are happening faster here. 

 

[JBChiangRai]

10 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Yeah, collapsing EV sales in Germany 🇩🇪. 

Soon that accumulating chart of your will start to flatten out.

We have had 5 of 8 months of YOY falling sales in Thailand, despite subsidies and a very aggressive price war. 

Thailand 🇹🇭 is 4-5 years behind Germany, but things are happening faster here. 

 

A misleading post.

 

Try quoting the percentage share of EV’s every month this year instead.

[vinny41]

Electric vehicles sales were down by 43.9% in Europe’s in August 2024. 

The European Union’s overall new car sales fell 18.3% last month. For major car markets in Europe, like Germany, France, and Italy, the EV sales saw double-digit losses. According to the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association (ACEA), Germany reported a 68.8% drop in EV sales while France recorded a 33.1% decline. 

Plug-in electric cars also dropped by 22.3% across all 27 members states of the EU. Meanwhile Hybrid electric vehicles sales performed better, rising 6.6% in August. ACEA data revealed that hybrid electric cars now have a market share of 31.3% in Europe. 

https://www.teslarati.com/electric-vehicle-eu-sales-drop/

 

[JBChiangRai]

16 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Electric vehicles sales were down by 43.9% in Europe’s in August 2024. 

The European Union’s overall new car sales fell 18.3% last month. For major car markets in Europe, like Germany, France, and Italy, the EV sales saw double-digit losses. According to the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association (ACEA), Germany reported a 68.8% drop in EV sales while France recorded a 33.1% decline. 

Plug-in electric cars also dropped by 22.3% across all 27 members states of the EU. Meanwhile Hybrid electric vehicles sales performed better, rising 6.6% in August. ACEA data revealed that hybrid electric cars now have a market share of 31.3% in Europe. 

https://www.teslarati.com/electric-vehicle-eu-sales-drop/

 

I wouldn’t expect anything less than a misleading post from you, so nice that you didn’t disappoint me.

 

EV sales are increasing worldwide this year, it’s ICE sales that are losing market share.

[khunphil]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

EV sales are increasing worldwide this year, it’s ICE sales that are losing market share.

Not willing to go into that discussion... But It can be that Europe numbers are not that optimistic... Bad propaganda, new tax reform on Chinese ev, allergic to new things, and angry facing the new 2035 ICE law. ... But Europe is maybe not leading anymore, and that in many domains....  My 2 cents. 

[JBChiangRai]

credit to KhunLA

[vinny41]

48 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I wouldn’t expect anything less than a misleading post from you, so nice that you didn’t disappoint me.

 

EV sales are increasing worldwide this year, it’s ICE sales that are losing market share.

The post is factually correct it is you that is posting misleading information 

In August, battery-electric cars accounted for 14.4% of the EU car market, down from 21% the previous year. This represents the fourth consecutive month of decline this year,

Electric cars

In August 2024, registrations of battery-electric (BEV) cars dropped by 43.9% to 92,627 units (compared to 165,204 the same period last year), with their total market share slipping to 14.4% from 21% a year before. This was driven by the spectacular drop in the two biggest markets for BEV cars: Germany (-68.8%) and France (-33.1%). From January to August, 902,011 new battery-electric cars were registered, representing 12.6% of the market.

https://www.acea.auto/pc-registrations/new-car-registrations-18-3-in-august-2024-bev-market-share-down-by-almost-one-third/

So are you going to accuse The European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association of providing  misleading information  because you don't agree with their statements

[JBChiangRai]

8 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The post is factually correct it is you that is posting misleading information 

In August, battery-electric cars accounted for 14.4% of the EU car market, down from 21% the previous year. This represents the fourth consecutive month of decline this year,

Electric cars

In August 2024, registrations of battery-electric (BEV) cars dropped by 43.9% to 92,627 units (compared to 165,204 the same period last year), with their total market share slipping to 14.4% from 21% a year before. This was driven by the spectacular drop in the two biggest markets for BEV cars: Germany (-68.8%) and France (-33.1%). From January to August, 902,011 new battery-electric cars were registered, representing 12.6% of the market.

https://www.acea.auto/pc-registrations/new-car-registrations-18-3-in-august-2024-bev-market-share-down-by-almost-one-third/

So are you going to accuse The European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association of providing  misleading information  because you don't agree with their statements

Nonsense statistics aimed to mislead people into thinking that EV’s market share isn’t growing all over the world.

 

 

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Nonsense statistics aimed to mislead people into thinking that EV’s market share isn’t growing all over the world.

 

 

Your making yourself look a complete idiot this is a  press release  from the The European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association  which anyone can view from their website 

Here is the latest press release

European auto industry calls for urgent action as demand for EVs declines

Brussels, 19 September 2024 – A continuous trend of shrinking market share for battery electric cars in the EU sends an extremely worrying signal to industry and policymakers. 

The latest EU car registration data released by ACEA today once again confirms the electric car market is now on a continual downward trajectory.

We are missing crucial conditions to reach the necessary boost in production and adoption of zero-emission vehicles: charging and hydrogen refilling infrastructure, as well as a competitive manufacturing environment, affordable green energy, purchase and tax incentives, and a secure supply of raw materials, hydrogen and batteries. Economic growth, consumer acceptance, and trust in infrastructure have not developed sufficiently either.

https://www.acea.auto/press-release/european-auto-industry-calls-for-urgent-action-as-demand-for-evs-declines/

 

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Your making yourself look a complete idiot this is a  press release  from the The European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association  which anyone can view from their website 

Here is the latest press release

European auto industry calls for urgent action as demand for EVs declines

Brussels, 19 September 2024 – A continuous trend of shrinking market share for battery electric cars in the EU sends an extremely worrying signal to industry and policymakers. 

The latest EU car registration data released by ACEA today once again confirms the electric car market is now on a continual downward trajectory.

We are missing crucial conditions to reach the necessary boost in production and adoption of zero-emission vehicles: charging and hydrogen refilling infrastructure, as well as a competitive manufacturing environment, affordable green energy, purchase and tax incentives, and a secure supply of raw materials, hydrogen and batteries. Economic growth, consumer acceptance, and trust in infrastructure have not developed sufficiently either.

https://www.acea.auto/press-release/european-auto-industry-calls-for-urgent-action-as-demand-for-evs-declines/

 

Complete BS

[vinny41]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

Complete BS

You can't accept FACTS and the Truth

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

You can't accept FACTS and the Truth

Your facts are almost always nonsense and designed to mislead.

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

You can't accept FACTS and the Truth

 

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Your facts are almost always nonsense and designed to mislead.

The information was provided from press releases from 

 The European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association

The latest EU car registration data released by ACEA today once again confirms the electric car market is now on a continual downward trajectory.

https://www.acea.auto/press-release/european-auto-industry-calls-for-urgent-action-as-demand-for-evs-declines/

 

[motdaeng]

at vinny41 and JBChiangRai, could you please stop your ongoing argument about ev numbers? it's slowly turning into a personal dispute that doesn't really add value to the topic.

 

we all understand by now that statistics can be interpreted in different ways. please allow the other members to decide what they want to believe. it would be great if you both could agree to respond to any new statistic with a limit of 2-3 posts each ... i know, it's a lot to ask for both of you  ...  

[JBChiangRai]

I have a better suggestion, neither Vinny nor I should post any statistics, agreed @vinny41 ?

[vinny41]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

I have a better suggestion, neither Vinny nor I should post any statistics, agreed @vinny41 ?

My Posts were press releases from The European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association and they included  EU car registration data 

Are you suggesting that all car registration data should no longer be posted ?

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

My Posts were press releases from The European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association and they included  EU car registration data 

Are you suggesting that all car registration data should no longer be posted ?

No, I am suggesting that neither you nor I post statistics.

[vinny41]

19 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

No, I am suggesting that neither you nor I post statistics.

As stated I didn't post  statistics I posted Press releases from  The European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association as shown here

Home | Press releases | New car registrations: -18.3% in August 2024; BEV market share down by almost one third

In August, battery-electric cars accounted for 14.4% of the EU car market, down from 21% the previous year. This represents the fourth consecutive month of decline this year, contrasting sharply with the almost consistent month-on-month increases last year. Plug-in hybrid car registrations were also marked by a sizeable 22.3% decline. The combined share of petrol and diesel cars also dropped slightly to 44.3%, down from 45.1%.

In August 2024, registrations of battery-electric (BEV) cars dropped by 43.9% to 92,627 units (compared to 165,204 the same period last year), with their total market share slipping to 14.4% from 21% a year before. This was driven by the spectacular drop in the two biggest markets for BEV cars: Germany (-68.8%) and France (-33.1%). From January to August, 902,011 new battery-electric cars were registered, representing 12.6% of the market.

https://www.acea.auto/pc-registrations/new-car-registrations-18-3-in-august-2024-bev-market-share-down-by-almost-one-third/

Now if you think the  The European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association press release is wrong 

Best solution is contact them and explain to them why their press release is incorrect

[motdaeng]

12 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

As stated I didn't post  statistics I posted Press releases from  The European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association as shown here

Home | Press releases | New car registrations: -18.3% in August 2024; BEV market share down by almost one third

In August, battery-electric cars accounted for 14.4% of the EU car market, down from 21% the previous year. This represents the fourth consecutive month of decline this year, contrasting sharply with the almost consistent month-on-month increases last year. Plug-in hybrid car registrations were also marked by a sizeable 22.3% decline. The combined share of petrol and diesel cars also dropped slightly to 44.3%, down from 45.1%.

In August 2024, registrations of battery-electric (BEV) cars dropped by 43.9% to 92,627 units (compared to 165,204 the same period last year), with their total market share slipping to 14.4% from 21% a year before. This was driven by the spectacular drop in the two biggest markets for BEV cars: Germany (-68.8%) and France (-33.1%). From January to August, 902,011 new battery-electric cars were registered, representing 12.6% of the market.

https://www.acea.auto/pc-registrations/new-car-registrations-18-3-in-august-2024-bev-market-share-down-by-almost-one-third/

 

... and once again, your private competition continues ... you never seem to get tired or need a break ... i don't think i'm wrong in saying that most members are tired of your privat statistics discussions ... i certainly am! please give us a break ... 

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

... and once again, your private competition continues ... you never seem to get tired or need a break ... i don't think i'm wrong in saying that most members are tired of your privat statistics discussions ... i certainly am! please give us a break ... 

 

Hardly private Its a  press release from   The European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association 

As for speaking for most members as you seem to claim I don't recall 

a member poll being posted so I assume you just make that up

The simply solution for you is put me on ignore why is that so diffcult for you

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

 

Hardly private Its a  press release from   The European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association 

As for speaking for most members as you seem to claim I don't recall 

a member poll being posted so I assume you just make that up

The simply solution for you is put me on ignore why is that so diffcult for you

No official poll but I am adding my voice to motdaeng's. It is very very boring, incredibly so. I am tired of having to scroll past all those posts each day (sometimes several times a day) to get to anything interesting - it is strangling the thread.

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

No official poll but I am adding my voice to motdaeng's. It is very very boring, incredibly so. I am tired of having to scroll past all those posts each day (sometimes several times a day) to get to anything interesting - it is strangling the thread.

Once again simple solution is ignore button and then you wouldn't see those posts

Looking at the Top posters in this thread

@KhunLA 500 posts @JBChiangRai 390 posts @Yellowtail 329 posts and myself at 145 posts

so the comment about scrolling past these posts each day sometimes serveral times a day is misleading and grossly exaggerated