ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I sent lots of messages on facebook over the last 4 days, including MG HQ who said they have no more stock.  They all replied either with "only have X model" or asked my phone/line only to try and switch and bait because they have no more D model.

 

I prefer the MG4 it's a much more modern design with a lifetime battery warranty and I think buying one under a year old might be the best option.

 

I also have to be careful because we will have World War 3 in my household if I buy anything too nice.  MG4 X model would be ok providing it doesn't have body kit and upgraded alloy wheels.

 

 

IMHO, the moment a manufacturer discounts a car, all the used ones take an immediate hit.  Tents get stuck with cars that owe them too much.

 

The Chinese understand the model of buying market share.  We have seen them do it with air conditioners and other electrical goods.  If you price them similar to existing brands then people won't buy them.  I think the lowered prices are the new reality.

The problem I see is for cars with finance

The finance companies have a lending risk model based on total price of car %down payment and monthly repayments over X number of years and they insist on 1st class insurance while the car is subject to finance and that lending risk model is base on traditionally the car value is reduced only by 10% per year and if the car is written off they will see a large  return of the  loan amount or if the car is  repossessed they can sell on used market and get a large return of the loan amount

Using the 30% model must mean that finance companies will insist on larger downpayments shorter loan period and higher monthly installments

[JBChiangRai]

13 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The problem I see is for cars with finance

The finance companies have a lending risk model based on total price of car %down payment and monthly repayments over X number of years and they insist on 1st class insurance while the car is subject to finance and that lending risk model is base on traditionally the car value is reduced only by 10% per year and if the car is written off they will see a large  return of the  loan amount or if the car is  repossessed they can sell on used market and get a large return of the loan amount

Using the 30% model must mean that finance companies will insist on larger downpayments shorter loan period and higher monthly installments

 

It would be nice to see gap insurance in Thailand, but it would just result in fraud.

[JBChiangRai]

I’ve always said Musk makes decisions on emotion often with appalling consequences.

 

He had a very public spat with the head of the company that licensed LIDAR to Tesla when he refused to drop the price and he said FU we’ll go camera based.

 

I always thought he was going down a blind alley and at some point legislation would make him backtrack. I do think that is coming, it will only take one death that could have been avoided.

 

Apparently it’s coming to a head with his robotaxi. I read the below this morning.

 

QUOTE

Several AI and autonomous vehicle experts told InsideEVs that Tesla's technical approach to its self-driving cars is flawed. Tesla only uses cameras and AI on the Robotaxi whereas rivals like Waymo use a more comprehensive sensor suite including radar and LIDAR

UNQUOTE.

[Pib]

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I’ve always said Musk makes decisions on emotion often with appalling consequences.

 

He had a very public spat with the head of the company that licensed LIDAR to Tesla when he refused to drop the price and he said FU we’ll go camera based.

 

I always thought he was going down a blind alley and at some point legislation would make him backtrack. I do think that is coming, it will only take one death that could have been avoided.

 

Apparently it’s coming to a head with his robotaxi. I read the below this morning.

 

QUOTE

Several AI and autonomous vehicle experts told InsideEVs that Tesla's technical approach to its self-driving cars is flawed. Tesla only uses cameras and AI on the Robotaxi whereas rivals like Waymo use a more comprehensive sensor suite including radar and LIDAR

UNQUOTE.

 

 Musk's robotaxi didn't impress investor's on 11 Oct 2034.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/11/tesla-tsla-stock-drops-in-premarket-after-cybercab-robotaxi-reveal.html

Tesla shares drop 9% after Cybercab robotaxi reveal ‘underwhelmed’ investors

Tesla shares closed down nearly 9% on Friday after the electric vehicle company’s long-awaited robotaxi event failed to impress investors.

 

[KhunLA]

Not a status symbol, or 'look at me, I'm rich', just practical money management & enjoying like.

 

Wife & friend @ RTAF Wing 5, coming back from surfside vendors.   The Fomm One, local-sh neighbor having since they were released.  Always spotlessly clean.

 

Few more neighbors have Atto 3s, a MG ZS, MG4, and a couple Haval H6s.  Couple also supplementing their PEA with solar 👍

 

Quite surprising, since all within 500 meters of the house (except Wing 5), and all of 50-75 households, as live kind of rural.  One guy surfside has a Tesla.

 

 

Edited October 13 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

 

 

[KhunLA]

 

[phetphet]

I know more and more charging stations are coming online every day, but I was thinking;

Say the world goes 100% electric vehicle. No ICE at all. At the moment it takes say around  2-6 minutes to fill a car with petrol, then it drives off and the next one takes it's place at the pump. 

 

Even allowing that many cars will be able to charge at home, and that level 3 fast chargers can reduce the charge time, it will still take far longer to charge a car to say 80% capacity than an ICE. I think some of the fastest are approx 34 mins to 80%.

 

So even if you replaced for example 20 petrol pumps in every gas station with 100 EV charging points, would it even be enough capacity at quieter times, let alone peak times such as holiday getaways.

 

I am not knocking EV's here, it was just something i was thinking about.

Things seem pretty balanced out at the moment. but apart from having to build far more charging stations than gas pumps, am I missing something?

Because the longer time to charge must create a logjam somewhere once the number of EVs gets to a certain point.

 

[JBChiangRai]

7 minutes ago, phetphet said:

I know more and more charging stations are coming online every day, but I was thinking;

Say the world goes 100% electric vehicle. No ICE at all. At the moment it takes say around  2-6 minutes to fill a car with petrol, then it drives off and the next one takes it's place at the pump. 

 

Even allowing that many cars will be able to charge at home, and that level 3 fast chargers can reduce the charge time, it will still take far longer to charge a car to say 80% capacity than an ICE. I think some of the fastest are approx 34 mins to 80%.

 

So even if you replaced for example 20 petrol pumps in every gas station with 100 EV charging points, would it even be enough capacity at quieter times, let alone peak times such as holiday getaways.

 

I am not knocking EV's here, it was just something i was thinking about.

Things seem pretty balanced out at the moment. but apart from having to build far more charging stations than gas pumps, am I missing something?

Because the longer time to charge must create a logjam somewhere once the number of EVs gets to a certain point.

 

On the face of it, that’s a very valid concern.

 

The reality is most owners of EV’s will never use a charging station.

 

I’ve had EV’s for five years and I’ve used a charging station en-route once because I needed to, I was there for 12 minutes only and a few times because charging was free thanks to BYD.

 

Unless I travel more than 400 km I will never need to use a charging station.

 

 

[Pib]

Yeap....for those folks who have wall chargers and not doing daily trips exceeding the range of their EV (which is probably going to be at least 300Km...and a lot more for many EVs and newer EV coming out) there is no need to use a DC Fast Charger.   

 

Since I got my BYD Atto EV almost one year ago I've only needed to use a DC Fast Charger on a western Bangkok to Ban Chang/Pattaya round trip where I added 25% charge over 20 minutes at Pattaya to ensure I had enough battery charge to get back to Bangkok.  This was my first long trip with my EV.  And as it turns out if I had "not" add that extra 25% charge I would have still made it back to my western Bangkok home with about 5% charge left.

 

But I have used DC Fast Chargers to just ensure the 6 charging network/app I registered with really works...or like I doing right now since 1 Aug in getting "free electrons" at BYD ReverSharger DC chargers thru 2 Jan 2025....haven't used my wall charger since early August.  But come 3 Jan 2025 when the current free electrons promotion ends I will once again only be using  my home wall charger except when I need to make a long trip that exceeds my Atto's range (a real world range of around 375-400Km at above 90KmH highway speeds...but around 420-440Km at lower speeds).

[Yellowtail]

Once all cars are EV it would make more sense to just have pickups in the road like bumper-cars such that the car is powered (and charged) on the road and only uses batteries on small roads. 

 

Then you could run trucks, busses and taxies and whatnot 24/7

[Gweiloman]

11 hours ago, phetphet said:

I know more and more charging stations are coming online every day, but I was thinking;

Say the world goes 100% electric vehicle. No ICE at all. At the moment it takes say around  2-6 minutes to fill a car with petrol, then it drives off and the next one takes it's place at the pump. 

 

Even allowing that many cars will be able to charge at home, and that level 3 fast chargers can reduce the charge time, it will still take far longer to charge a car to say 80% capacity than an ICE. I think some of the fastest are approx 34 mins to 80%.

 

So even if you replaced for example 20 petrol pumps in every gas station with 100 EV charging points, would it even be enough capacity at quieter times, let alone peak times such as holiday getaways.

 

I am not knocking EV's here, it was just something i was thinking about.

Things seem pretty balanced out at the moment. but apart from having to build far more charging stations than gas pumps, am I missing something?

Because the longer time to charge must create a logjam somewhere once the number of EVs gets to a certain point.

 

I second @JBChiangRai and third(?) @Pib. For the 1st year that I owned my Dolphin, I charged exclusively at home. It’s only with the recent free charging promotion that I have used DC fast chargers. 
 

This is not something immediately obvious as we are all so used to filling up at petrol stations all the time. Even for my PHEV, I think I’ve only topped up twice this year, each time with only Thb 500. I force myself to do so to avoid the petrol going stale or clogging up any injectors or whatever the heck ICEs do to get the car moving.

[Andrew Dwyer]

Wonder what the precedent is for allowing 24 hr free charging or only off peak at BYD or Bangchak pump ??.

As we see from the posting here it affects availability so much, Pib seems to have his pick of red dots, I have enough with a short travel while Gweilo has to charge in unsociable hours and is encountering queues.

[Gweiloman]

9 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Wonder what the precedent is for allowing 24 hr free charging or only off peak at BYD or Bangchak pump ??.

As we see from the posting here it affects availability so much, Pib seems to have his pick of red dots, I have enough with a short travel while Gweilo has to charge in unsociable hours and is encountering queues.

Pib has it good, lucky sod. I live in CM and availability leaves a lot to be desired. There is only one 24/7 Bangchak CS but this has been out of action the past week or so as it was underwater for a few days when the Ping `river burst its banks. The area is now dry but both the petrol pumps and EV charging is still inoperable. I drove past yesterday on my way home and there was a very optimistic Atto3 owner parked in front of the CS in spite of,it being clearly unpowered with a A4 sheet of paper stuck on the display, presumably saying that the charger is offline. Maybe he just popped into the coffee shop instead of waiting for it to come online although with some Thais, one can never be too sure.

 

 There are 3 other chargers (total 6 stations) but these are off peak only. I was hoping that there would be less queues after September when the Group 2 owners don’t get free charging anymore but I don’t see much of a difference. Fortunately, I’ve been a night owl all my life so going out at unsociable hours doesn’t bother me at all. As for the queues, it’s a shame that the demographic of BYD owners tend to be middle aged guys instead of SYTs.

[Pib]

9 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Wonder what the precedent is for allowing 24 hr free charging or only off peak at BYD or Bangchak pump ??.

As we see from the posting here it affects availability so much, Pib seems to have his pick of red dots, I have enough with a short travel while Gweilo has to charge in unsociable hours and is encountering queues.

 

I guess it could possibly have something to do with available electrical power at certain locations and the BYD dealership/Bangchak station could only get the servicing electrical company to hookup the charger to the electrical grid "if", repeat, if the charging location agreed to only operate the charger during  Off Peak Hours/Days which is 10pm-8am Mon-Fri and 24 hours Sat & Sun even though that has nothing to do with what the charger will charge per KWH....like the ReverSharger chargers that charge Bt8/KWH 24 hours a day....no off peak rates at ReverSharger chargers.

 

Or the BYD dealership/Bangchak station have the chargers in a location that is kinda disruptive to that location's main line of business of selling & serving BYD vehicles and/or gassing-up ICEV.  Like at several BYD dealership's I've charged at their chargers are located at spots that would definitely impact "non-charging" customers during prime business hours of Mon-Fri.  Typically these are small dealerships with little land for parking.   And one Bangchak station I've used only has little parking available for venders who rent there and I guess they don't want one or two EVs (and maybe another one or two queuing) to use the charger during key business hours as they feel "non-charging" customers would provide more business for vendors renting at the Bangchak station.   It just seems the locations where they have limited hours/days are those locations with little parking space based on the dealerships/stations I've actually visited with limited charging hours/days.

 

By the way, the wife and I did a 247km route trip western Bangkok to Kanchanaburi (Bride over River Kwai) today and although I had no need to do any supplemental charging since my BYD Atto has around a 400Km real-world range and I was starting with a 97% charge I did stop at a Red Pin BYD dealership on the way back for about 10 minutes in Muang Kanchanaburi to top-up to 85% and take a bathroom break.  It was pretty much plug-in...make good use of the bathroom...then come back to the car which was almost at 85%....as soon as it hit 85% I unplugged and continued on.     Why only to 85%?   Well, the charging curve of my Atto drops from around 58KWH to 32KWH when reaching 85%...to go from 85% to 100% would have taken another approx 23 minutes and I figured I could probably fully top-up at another location just before getting home.   No one was queuing to charge behind me so I didn't affect anybody.      And then about 20Km from getting back home to Bangkok I stopped at another Red Pin BYD dealership which is one of those only during Off Peak charging locations with chargers at a funky location due to limited parking space at the dealership and I charged to 100%....no one queuing behind me.  Then back on the road again....20Km later I'm home with 97% charge remaining.   I had never used either of these dealerships before....so I can now add two more Red Pin locations to my list of  "Red Pin Locations Used."   😜

 

 

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

9 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

I guess it could possibly have something to do with available electrical power at certain locations and the BYD dealership/Bangchak station could only get the servicing electrical company to hookup the charger to the electrical grid "if", repeat, if the charging location agreed to only operate the charger during  Off Peak Hours/Days which is 10pm-8am Mon-Fri and 24 hours Sat & Sun even though that has nothing to do with what the charger will charge per KWH....like the ReverSharger chargers that charge Bt8/KWH 24 hours a day....no off peak rates at ReverSharger chargers.

 

Or the BYD dealership/Bangchak station have the chargers in a location that is kinda disruptive to that location's main line of business of selling & serving BYD vehicles and/or gassing-up ICEV.  Like at several BYD dealership's I've charged at their chargers are located at spots that would definitely impact "non-charging" customers during prime business hours of Mon-Fri.  Typically these are small dealerships with little land for parking.   And one Bangchak station I've used only has little parking available for venders who rent there and I guess they don't want one or two EVs (and maybe another one or two queuing) to use the charger during key business hours as they feel "non-charging" customers would provide more business for vendors renting at the Bangchak station.   It just seems the locations where they have limited hours/days are those locations with little parking space based on the dealerships/stations I've actually visited with limited charging hours/days.

 

By the way, the wife and I did a 247km route trip western Bangkok to Kanchanaburi (Bride over River Kwai) today and although I had no need to do any supplemental charging since my BYD Atto has around a 400Km real-world range and I was starting with a 97% charge I did stop at a Red Pin BYD dealership on the way back for about 10 minutes in Muang Kanchanaburi to top-up to 85% and take a bathroom break.  It was pretty much plug-in...make good use of the bathroom...then come back to the car which was almost at 85%....as soon as it hit 85% I unplugged and continued on.     Why only to 85%?   Well, the charging curve of my Atto drops from around 58KWH to 32KWH when reaching 85%...to go from 85% to 100% would have taken another approx 23 minutes and I figured I could probably fully top-up at another location just before getting home.   No one was queuing to charge behind me so I didn't affect anybody.      And then about 20Km from getting back home to Bangkok I stopped at another Red Pin BYD dealership which is one of those only during Off Peak charging locations with chargers at a funky location due to limited parking space at the dealership and I charged to 100%....no one queuing behind me.  Then back on the road again....20Km later I'm home with 97% charge remaining.   I had never used either of these dealerships before....so I can now add two more Red Pin locations to my list of  "Red Pin Locations Used."   😜

 

 

 

Thanks, the Bangchak nearest me is off peak and is a tiny location so your theory could be correct.

Drove 410km today, left with 96% and arrived back with 21% ( 136 km ) as we neared the Bangchak i checked the app to see both occupied with 35% and 42% charged so the app update has paid for itself already, didn’t even pull in.

Will check again tomorrow but i have noticed that this charger is busy most Sundays so unlikely to find a spot, the off peak effect.

A Monday drive out to the other Bangchak is likely on the cards for me for a charge and a bite to eat.

It is 30 km but basically 3 long straight roads , Mrs D has already commented on my speed increase since getting free charging !!

[Gweiloman]

41 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

I guess it could possibly have something to do with available electrical power at certain locations and the BYD dealership/Bangchak station could only get the servicing electrical company to hookup the charger to the electrical grid "if", repeat, if the charging location agreed to only operate the charger during  Off Peak Hours/Days which is 10pm-8am Mon-Fri and 24 hours Sat & Sun even though that has nothing to do with what the charger will charge per KWH....like the ReverSharger chargers that charge Bt8/KWH 24 hours a day....no off peak rates at ReverSharger chargers.

 

Or the BYD dealership/Bangchak station have the chargers in a location that is kinda disruptive to that location's main line of business of selling & serving BYD vehicles and/or gassing-up ICEV.  Like at several BYD dealership's I've charged at their chargers are located at spots that would definitely impact "non-charging" customers during prime business hours of Mon-Fri.  Typically these are small dealerships with little land for parking.   And one Bangchak station I've used only has little parking available for venders who rent there and I guess they don't want one or two EVs (and maybe another one or two queuing) to use the charger during key business hours as they feel "non-charging" customers would provide more business for vendors renting at the Bangchak station.   It just seems the locations where they have limited hours/days are those locations with little parking space based on the dealerships/stations I've actually visited with limited charging hours/days.

 

By the way, the wife and I did a 247km route trip western Bangkok to Kanchanaburi (Bride over River Kwai) today and although I had no need to do any supplemental charging since my BYD Atto has around a 400Km real-world range and I was starting with a 97% charge I did stop at a Red Pin BYD dealership on the way back for about 10 minutes in Muang Kanchanaburi to top-up to 85% and take a bathroom break.  It was pretty much plug-in...make good use of the bathroom...then come back to the car which was almost at 85%....as soon as it hit 85% I unplugged and continued on.     Why only to 85%?   Well, the charging curve of my Atto drops from around 58KWH to 32KWH when reaching 85%...to go from 85% to 100% would have taken another approx 23 minutes and I figured I could probably fully top-up at another location just before getting home.   No one was queuing to charge behind me so I didn't affect anybody.      And then about 20Km from getting back home to Bangkok I stopped at another Red Pin BYD dealership which is one of those only during Off Peak charging locations with chargers at a funky location due to limited parking space at the dealership and I charged to 100%....no one queuing behind me.  Then back on the road again....20Km later I'm home with 97% charge remaining.   I had never used either of these dealerships before....so I can now add two more Red Pin locations to my list of  "Red Pin Locations Used."   😜

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Thanks, the Bangchak nearest me is off peak and is a tiny location so your theory could be correct.

Drove 410km today, left with 96% and arrived back with 21% ( 136 km ) as we neared the Bangchak i checked the app to see both occupied with 35% and 42% charged so the app update has paid for itself already, didn’t even pull in.

Will check again tomorrow but i have noticed that this charger is busy most Sundays so unlikely to find a spot, the off peak effect.

A Monday drive out to the other Bangchak is likely on the cards for me for a charge and a bite to eat.

It is 30 km but basically 3 long straight roads , Mrs D has already commented on my speed increase since getting free charging !!

I beg to differ (there’s always one, isn’t there?). In the 2 CS that I frequent, a Bangchak station, there’s always plenty of parking. I put it to you that people waiting to charge are much more likely to spend money at the vendors there. I know for myself that I wouldn’t have frequented those vendors at those CS if I wasn’t waiting to charge. 
 

There was a post a couple of weeks back about the queue at a particular CS in CM. The coffee shop adjacent to the chargers is doing a roaring business from BYD owners. Practically everyone goes in for a cuppa. 
 

I agree with the theory about the electric grid though. The latest BYD showroom in CM on the 700 year road has had chargers installed the past few months but still non-operational, on peak or off peak.

 

Edit: my speeds have increased too!

Edited October 19 by Gweiloman

[KhunLA]

 

[motdaeng]

sorry, wrong post

Edited October 22 by motdaeng

[JBChiangRai]

34 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

 

 

Akio Toyoda is now crying because he realises he has been wrong all along.  His legacy will be that of the man who destroyed Toyota.

[vinny41]

Toyota Motor Europe outperforms market with all-time record sales of 912,671 vehicles during first 9 months

Toyota Motor Europe (TME) vehicle sales up +6% year-on-year across the first three quarters, an all-time high for the period (1)

TME’s total electrified sales mix has now reached 75% of all vehicles sold in Europe

Toyota remains 2nd best-selling passenger car brand in Europe with sales growth of +5% year-on-year

Toyota C-HR sales up +8% year-on-year boosted by the introduction of a plug-in hybrid model

Lexus post record sales of 63,697 vehicles an increase of +17%, year-on-year

https://newsroom.toyota.eu/toyota-motor-europe-outperforms-market-with-all-time-record-sales-of-912671-vehicles-during-first-9-months/

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Toyota Motor Europe outperforms market with all-time record sales of 912,671 vehicles during first 9 months

Toyota Motor Europe (TME) vehicle sales up +6% year-on-year across the first three quarters, an all-time high for the period (1)

TME’s total electrified sales mix has now reached 75% of all vehicles sold in Europe

Toyota remains 2nd best-selling passenger car brand in Europe with sales growth of +5% year-on-year

Toyota C-HR sales up +8% year-on-year boosted by the introduction of a plug-in hybrid model

Lexus post record sales of 63,697 vehicles an increase of +17%, year-on-year

https://newsroom.toyota.eu/toyota-motor-europe-outperforms-market-with-all-time-record-sales-of-912671-vehicles-during-first-9-months/

 

 

 

Vinny, could you research the claim made by Sam in the video that Toyota's sales have declined 7 months in a row and tell us where it came from?

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Vinny, could you research the claim made by Sam in the video that Toyota's sales have declined 7 months in a row and tell us where it came from?

I tend to  take with a pinch of salt what Australians say about the automotive industry as far as I am aware the only major known brand that Australia is known for is the Holden

The Holden was introduced to be Australia's car, being the first full scale produced automobile exclusive to the country. Prior to which, General Motors Holden's Ltd. assembled imported CKD kits from overseas General Motors subsidiaries such as Chevrolet, Buick, Vauxhall and more. And the only other cars built in the country being Ford and Chrysler vehicle bodies fitted to imported chassis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_(automobile)

 

[KhunLA]

15 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Toyota Motor Europe outperforms market with all-time record sales of 912,671 vehicles during first 9 months

Toyota Motor Europe (TME) vehicle sales up +6% year-on-year across the first three quarters, an all-time high for the period (1)

TME’s total electrified sales mix has now reached 75% of all vehicles sold in Europe

Toyota remains 2nd best-selling passenger car brand in Europe with sales growth of +5% year-on-year

Toyota C-HR sales up +8% year-on-year boosted by the introduction of a plug-in hybrid model

Lexus post record sales of 63,697 vehicles an increase of +17%, year-on-year

https://newsroom.toyota.eu/toyota-motor-europe-outperforms-market-with-all-time-record-sales-of-912671-vehicles-during-first-9-months/

 

 

 

Good for them (in Europe), but not enough to offset the worldwide decline.  More accurate 'worldwide' stats below.

 

10 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Vinny, could you research the claim made by Sam in the video that Toyota's sales have declined 7 months in a row and tell us where it came from?

 

Toyota global sales decline slows in July

 

"In the first seven months of 2024 the group’s global sales, including those of Daihatsu Motor and Hino Motors, fell by 4.0% to 6,087,359 units – including a 27% drop in Japan 1,009,707 units while overseas sales increased by 2.6% to 5,077,652 units.

 

Toyota and Lexus’ global sales fell by 0.8% to 5,750,240 units year-to-date, including a 19% drop in Japan to 822,649 units while overseas sales increased by 3.1% to 4,927,591 units – driven mainly by strong demand in North America and Europe. Toyota restarted production of the Prius in Japan in June after output was suspended in April due to a recall.

 

Daihatsu’s global sales plunged by 42% to 266,965 units year-to-date, after it was forced to shut down production at a number of plants in Japan for prolonged periods in the first half of the year following the safety test rigging scandal that hit the headlines last December. Sales in Japan were down by 53% at 163,182 units while overseas sales fell by over 12% to 103,783 units."

 

[vinny41]

Just now, KhunLA said:

 

Good for them (in Europe), but not enough to offset the worldwide decline.  More accurate 'worldwide' stats below.

 

 

Toyota global sales decline slows in July

 

"In the first seven months of 2024 the group’s global sales, including those of Daihatsu Motor and Hino Motors, fell by 4.0% to 6,087,359 units – including a 27% drop in Japan 1,009,707 units while overseas sales increased by 2.6% to 5,077,652 units.

 

Toyota and Lexus’ global sales fell by 0.8% to 5,750,240 units year-to-date, including a 19% drop in Japan to 822,649 units while overseas sales increased by 3.1% to 4,927,591 units – driven mainly by strong demand in North America and Europe. Toyota restarted production of the Prius in Japan in June after output was suspended in April due to a recall.

 

Daihatsu’s global sales plunged by 42% to 266,965 units year-to-date, after it was forced to shut down production at a number of plants in Japan for prolonged periods in the first half of the year following the safety test rigging scandal that hit the headlines last December. Sales in Japan were down by 53% at 163,182 units while overseas sales fell by over 12% to 103,783 units."

 

As @JBChiangRai has posted many times

One Swallow does not a Summer make.

[JBChiangRai]

@vinny41 The purpose of my asking you to research it was to encourage you to research & post in a balanced way.

 

It's only too easy to cherry pick and post only what furthers your general stance, I'm as guilty as anyone.  But I think it's important we balance what we post as it stops the back and forth bickering.

[KhunLA]

34 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

As @JBChiangRai has posted many times

One Swallow does not a Summer make.

7 months in a row decline ... not their best year 

 

[Pib]

Don't worry Toyota's revolutionary new engines and EV batteries (always just around the corner in anti-EV videos/articles) will make Toyota worldwide sales soar in the near future (another always just around corner).  😜😁   

 

And I just love how that Toyota Europe Newsroom release refers to Toyota "hybrid" models as "electrified" sales/models although most of these models just have a small traction battery & small electric motor to "assist" in some driving scenarios the primarily combustion engine.   Kinda like being a mixed breed of  90% combustion and 10% electric.   Using  "electrified" terminology might imply to some the Toyota hybrids are true EVs and Toyota is pressing full speed ahead in transitioning to fully electric vehicles.    But hey, it's good salesman language for selling hybrids.

 

[vinny41]

59 minutes ago, Pib said:

Don't worry Toyota's revolutionary new engines and EV batteries (always just around the corner in anti-EV videos/articles) will make Toyota worldwide sales soar in the near future (another always just around corner).  😜😁   

 

And I just love how that Toyota Europe Newsroom release refers to Toyota "hybrid" models as "electrified" sales/models although most of these models just have a small traction battery & small electric motor to "assist" in some driving scenarios the primarily combustion engine.   Kinda like being a mixed breed of  90% combustion and 10% electric.   Using  "electrified" terminology might imply to some the Toyota hybrids are true EVs and Toyota is pressing full speed ahead in transitioning to fully electric vehicles.    But hey, it's good salesman language for selling hybrids.

 

Toyota annual report has a tab which is labelled Sales of electrified vehicles and both the annual report and the Toyota Europe Newsroom both give a breakdown 

by type HEV,MHEV,PHEV,FCEV and BEV

https://global.toyota/en/company/profile/production-sales-figures/202408.html

the Toyota Europe Newsroom provides the break down to each model so anyone reading it can see that for example 19,651 bZ4X BEV were sold

https://newsroom.toyota.eu/toyota-motor-europe-outperforms-market-with-all-time-record-sales-of-912671-vehicles-during-first-9-months/

 

 

[josephbloggs]

I know we saw a few weeks ago that the Ford CEO and his CFO spent time in China driving Chinese EVs and said they were way ahead of Ford and posed an "existential threat".

Now it's been revealed that he had a Xiaomi SU7 shipped to Chicago. He has been driving it for the last six months and says he "doesn't want to give it up".

Yet all the Trumpers on here still call them "Chinese junk" etc. Sad really, such closed ignorant minds.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-ceo-driving-xiaomi-su7-electric-vehicles-ev-2024-10