Are we just going to have to live with unvaccinated people across Thailand?

[coolcarer]

11 hours ago, ThLT said:

Much lower than that for Omicron—especially considering Thailand has used mostly Sinovac (37%) and AstraZeneca (71%):

 

 

https://www.healthdata.org/covid/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-summary

 

 (Boosted is higher—although the page does say booster data is included—but even if it weren't, the booster vaccination rate is still at 27.5% in Thailand as of now.)

 

Just noticed this, apologies for the delay in reply. I was referring to my recollection on the VE for deaths and VE for hospitalisations from the latest report I read dated 17th Feb from the UK Health Security Agencies weekly vaccine surveillance reports and I see I was near the mark.

 

Protection against mortality is 85% - 99%. That is after a booster 0 - 3 months, not enough data for further info yet.

Protection against hospital admission is 80% - 95%. After a booster 0 - 3 months & 75% - 85%. Data for 4 - 6 months is at 75% - 85%

Data contained page 12, table 2 (a)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1055620/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_7.pdf

 

This is combination statistics for all vaccines used in the UK. I absolutely accept that in Thailand this may be somewhat diminished because of the main vaccines used so far but it's impossible to put figures on that.

 

The report you linked to from healthdata.or is useful but has not been updated since 10th Jan, screenshot attached from the wayback machine internet archives.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1055620/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_7.pdf

[ebice]

1 hour ago, coolcarer said:

Just noticed this, apologies for the delay in reply. I was referring to my recollection on the VE for deaths and VE for hospitalisations from the latest report I read dated 17th Feb from the UK Health Security Agencies weekly vaccine surveillance reports and I see I was near the mark.

 

Protection against mortality is 85% - 99%. That is after a booster 0 - 3 months, not enough data for further info yet.

Protection against hospital admission is 80% - 95%. After a booster 0 - 3 months & 75% - 85%. Data for 4 - 6 months is at 75% - 85%

Data contained page 12, table 2 (a)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1055620/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_7.pdf

 

This is combination statistics for all vaccines used in the UK. I absolutely accept that in Thailand this may be somewhat diminished because of the main vaccines used so far but it's impossible to put figures on that.

 

The report you linked to from healthdata.or is useful but has not been updated since 10th Jan, screenshot attached from the wayback machine internet archives.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1055620/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_7.pdf

Yes, but do pay attention to this notice attached in Week 7 report:

 

[onthedarkside]

A post with unsourced and unsubstantiated claims has been removed.

 

[pedro01]

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/20/health/the-cdc-isnt-publishing-large-portions-of-the-covid-data-it-collects.html

 

Data being withheld.

 

Booster data on 18-49 year olds.

 

[Bkk Brian]

23 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/20/health/the-cdc-isnt-publishing-large-portions-of-the-covid-data-it-collects.html

 

Data being withheld.

 

Booster data on 18-49 year olds.

 

 

Not sure how that is related in anyway to Thailand and this topic but my guess is because of those tin hat anti vaxxers using it out of context for misinformation purposes. Much like Scotland also had to withdraw certain reports:

 

Anti-vax 'misinformation' forces official block on Scots Covid deaths data

PHS has stated that the data in the report was never to be used as a measure of vaccine effectiveness but it is now aware of "inappropriate use and misinterpretation of the data when taken in isolation without fully understanding the limitations..."

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/19932203.anti-vax-misinformation-forces-official-block-scots-covid-deaths-data/

[ebice]

22 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

Data being withheld

What took the NY Times so long to call out the CDC.

[coolcarer]

59 minutes ago, ebice said:

Yes, but do pay attention to this notice attached in Week 7 report:

 

Yes I did, a work in progress as is all data gathering presently, but at least more up to date than the report of 10th Jan. further time is needed for conclusive evidence for many aspects of the new Omicron variant which is only to be expected.

[pedro01]

15 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Not sure how that is related in anyway to Thailand and this topic but my guess is because of those tin hat anti vaxxers using it out of context for misinformation purposes. Much like Scotland also had to withdraw certain reports:

 

Anti-vax 'misinformation' forces official block on Scots Covid deaths data

PHS has stated that the data in the report was never to be used as a measure of vaccine effectiveness but it is now aware of "inappropriate use and misinterpretation of the data when taken in isolation without fully understanding the limitations..."

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/19932203.anti-vax-misinformation-forces-official-block-scots-covid-deaths-data/

I don't think COVID is limited to Thailand...

 

Bottom line is - we don't need to see the data anyway. We know what it's going to show. 

 

This CDC data needs to be taken on merit. It's been buried because they fear the ignorant masses will misinterpret the data. 

 

The idea that government will lie to you to protect you from yourself - that's pure authoritarianism. 

[ebice]

5 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

they fear the ignorant masses will misinterpret the data. 

More like the bigger fear is that it could be interpreted exactly properly without any fudge factor.

[Bkk Brian]

9 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

I don't think COVID is limited to Thailand...

 

Bottom line is - we don't need to see the data anyway. We know what it's going to show. 

 

This CDC data needs to be taken on merit. It's been buried because they fear the ignorant masses will misinterpret the data. 

 

The idea that government will lie to you to protect you from yourself - that's pure authoritarianism. 

I agree with one sentiment they fear it will be misinterpreted, however not by the masses but by a small group of anti vaxxers as Scotland did due to evidence of that happening.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If I had a dollar for every post that's been made here on AA in recent months that attempted to misrepresent the UK public data on COVID hospitalizations and deaths relative to vaccination status, I'd be a very rich man.

 

It's either posters doing it intentionally because they're anti-vaxers, and/or, people parroting misinformation they've read on assorted anti-vax leaning websites and such. It also probably would help if the public health officials reported the data in formats that make it less likely to be abused.

 

I too believe useful and important data collected by government agencies should be released to the public. But if I were a CDC or UK public health exec and had witnessed first-hand the torrent of intentional vaccine misinformation that's been put forward by those will malicious motives, I might feel some hesitancy as well.

 

That said, CDC has been getting better at producing clear and unambiguous data on how vaccinations relate to people of various age groups' ability to avoid COVID hospitalizations, as in the following example:

 

FULLY VACCINATED - two shots

 

 

 

FULLY VACCINATED plus boosted:

 

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitalizations-vaccination

 

And the same for COVID deaths and vaccination status:

 

 

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status

 

[connda]

I'm afraid so.

"He said that not being vaccinated was a person's basic human right. You can't force anyone to be vaccinated."
-Public Health Minister Anutin Charnvirakul¹

Of course, individual establishments can legally discriminate if they wish.  But it simply decreases their customer base in an economic downturn so they do so at their own determent.

¹https://aseannow.com/topic/1240027-anutin-speaks-out-on-the-unvaccinated-possibly-facing-restrictions/

 

[pikao]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I too believe useful and important data collected by government agencies should be released to the public. But if I were a CDC or UK public health exec and had witnessed first-hand the torrent of intentional vaccine misinformation that's been put forward by those will malicious motives, I might feel some hesitancy as well.

What kind of malicious motives could that be???

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, ebice said:

What took the NY Times so long to call out the CDC.

Did you mean to ask "What took news organizations so long to call out the CDC"?

 

Or perhaps "Why didn't any of the vaccine skeptic news organizations call out the CDC on this issue sooner"?

[heybruce]

46 minutes ago, connda said:

I'm afraid so.

"He said that not being vaccinated was a person's basic human right. You can't force anyone to be vaccinated."
-Public Health Minister Anutin Charnvirakul¹

Of course, individual establishments can legally discriminate if they wish.  But it simply decreases their customer base in an economic downturn so they do so at their own determent.

¹https://aseannow.com/topic/1240027-anutin-speaks-out-on-the-unvaccinated-possibly-facing-restrictions/

 

For some businesses, especially businesses identified as superspreaders (the cruise ship industry), requiring customers and employees to be vaccinated could be good for business.

[pikao]

16 minutes ago, heybruce said:

For some businesses, especially businesses identified as superspreaders (the cruise ship industry), requiring customers and employees to be vaccinated could be good for business.

They do, at 100%

[DavisH]

On 2/11/2022 at 4:29 PM, greg71 said:

If im not mistaken those who are vaccinated can and do transmit it onwards to others just as much as the unvaxxed . 

Good...so us vaxxed ppl can pass on the free omicron live vaccine to the unvaxxed. They will get "vaxxed" one way or another. It's just a matter of time. 

[pedro01]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

For some businesses, especially businesses identified as superspreaders (the cruise ship industry), requiring customers and employees to be vaccinated could be good for business.

Here's the problem - your health information is private. It's the same in most countries.

 

How about restaurants refusing customers with Herpes? How about HIV?

 

That's a helluva slippery slope. 

[placeholder]

21 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

Here's the problem - your health information is private. It's the same in most countries.

 

How about restaurants refusing customers with Herpes? How about HIV?

 

That's a helluva slippery slope. 

You mean because these restaurant owners are afraid that infected customers will be having sexual relations with their staff or customers and doing it unsafely? Really? 

[heybruce]

37 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

Here's the problem - your health information is private. It's the same in most countries.

 

How about restaurants refusing customers with Herpes? How about HIV?

 

That's a helluva slippery slope. 

Tell that to the countries requiring Covid passports to enter public venues.

[pedro01]

17 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You mean because these restaurant owners are afraid that infected customers will be having sexual relations with their staff or customers and doing it unsafely? Really? 

No - you could refuse people entry with Herpes Simplex because it can be passed on a shared glass. Same for flu, meningitis, rubella, chicken pox.

 

Other airborne diseases - Chicken pox, mumps, measles, flu, common cold, TB, anthrax, diptheria, meningitis. Why are you not calling for those to be monitored in restaurants ? Is there a reason you haven't campaigned for testing/vaccination proof of these ailments before being allowed into a restaurant?

 

I presume you want evidence of vaccination OR lack of disease. Or is it vaccinations or nothing?

 

I have had 2 vaccines and 1 dose of covid. I believe that I am as well protected as someone that's had 2 vax + 1 booster. I count beating covid as a booster - so by your measure - at the time I am supposed to be boosted with another vaccine - I should not be allowed in a restaurant, right?

 

Even if I was free and clear of Covid - I still can't go in unless I took a specific vaccine right? To you - it doesn't matter if I have covid - it's is your way or the highway, right?

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

45 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

Here's the problem - your health information is private. It's the same in most countries.

 

How about restaurants refusing customers with Herpes? How about HIV?

 

That's a helluva slippery slope. 

Cruise ships are a high risk area and proven to facilitate the spread of covid. Health Information is not private for any employee, they are bound by the Seafarer's Medical Examinations which even include sexual health screening.

 

Health and Safety onboard is paramount due to its very nature, access to healthcare may be limited on-board so this is a very good example of where a vaccine policy mandate  along with any medical exemptions, for passengers and crew.

 

[pedro01]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Cruise ships are a high risk area and proven to facilitate the spread of covid. Health Information is not private for any employee, they are bound by the Seafarer's Medical Examinations which even include sexual health screening.

 

Health and Safety onboard is paramount due to its very nature, access to healthcare may be limited on-board so this is a very good example of where a vaccine policy mandate  along with any medical exemptions, for passengers and crew.

 

From what I can gather - most restaurants are not on cruise ships. 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, pedro01 said:

From what I can gather - most restaurants are not on cruise ships. 

You were reply to a cruise ship post, your comment on restaurants is also just as important on a cruise ships where they have extremely large ones that you visit at least 3 times a day..............oh dear.......

[Longwood50]

Hey why worry about unvaccinated people.  When I point out the crowds at Maakro or Tesco Lotus they all say so what these people are wearing a mask.  

Seems as though they have evidence that those 3 baht masks or better yet the cloth ones sewn by people are 100% effective in preventing you from contracting the diseas.  So using "their" logic if you wear your mask it is like Superman inside a lead container.  No kryptonite (or covid) can harm you.  

[milys]

On 2/3/2022 at 8:30 PM, RandiRona said:

Yes, people have right to decide what is right for them. I am not against vaccination and double vaccinated but I decide what I take and what I wont. Please respect other people decision to not take it for whatever reason. They are still human.

That's where you are wrong. It's not your decision it affects all the society and we can't have selfish people roaming

around un-vaccinated because the saw something on FB.

You might be lucky and survive if you catch it but the people that you infected maybe will not have the same luck.

I think that Singapore made a nice move for a starter, If you choose not to get the jab and get Covid you also pay the hospital bill for your treatment.

It's actually ridiculous that we even have this discussion. Previously when we have had smaller outbreaks like of Ebola the anti-waxers didn't complain about not dying.

[ebice]

25 minutes ago, milys said:

get Covid you also pay the hospital bill

I spoke with a airline pilot from Sing air not long ago and he told me even though he is vaccinated, if he gets infected while outside SI he will also be required to pay covid medical fees.

[Andre0720]

On 2/4/2022 at 2:30 AM, RandiRona said:

Yes, people have right to decide what is right for them. I am not against vaccination and double vaccinated but I decide what I take and what I wont. Please respect other people decision to not take it for whatever reason. They are still human.

Oh yes of course.

And the police big-bike driver who killed a doctor at a zebra crossing was doing what he thought was right for him.

People's decisions must have some kind of explainable 'merit' to obtain anyone's respect.

If it can be explained in a way that protects oneself and everybody else at the same time, then of course 'respect' is warranted.

Respect is not granted only because it is someone's decision, or because people are human....

[pedro01]

17 hours ago, milys said:

That's where you are wrong. It's not your decision it affects all the society and we can't have selfish people roaming

around un-vaccinated because the saw something on FB.

You might be lucky and survive if you catch it but the people that you infected maybe will not have the same luck.

I think that Singapore made a nice move for a starter, If you choose not to get the jab and get Covid you also pay the hospital bill for your treatment.

It's actually ridiculous that we even have this discussion. Previously when we have had smaller outbreaks like of Ebola the anti-waxers didn't complain about not dying.

Booster 4 is on the way. 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60465983

 

Over 75s for now. 

 

I thought booster 3 gave longer term protection.

 

 

[onthedarkside]

A post has been removed because one of its included graphics failed to include the required weblink to the original source.