12 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

If they hadn’t, Ukraine would be a Russian puppet state by now, and Putin would be plotting his next move. He wants to restore the old USSR, remember? Is that something you would feel comfortable with? I’m pretty sure most people in eastern Europe would not like that at all, since many of them remember what it was like to live behind the iron curtain. 

Forgot to mention that many western European countries (and probably the USA as well) wouldn’t like it much either if Russia managed to restore the old iron curtain.

Europe and the USA are actually getting a very good deal here. All they send is money and materials, no EU/US boots on the ground, no EU/US lives lost. 
Did you know, by the way, that the US ministry of defense failed its annual audit for the sixth time in a row? They can not account for a whopping 63% of their nearly 4 trillion dollars in assets. Do you know how much money goes missing that way? Just imagine how much good could be done with that money for the average Joe and Jane in the US, how much better their lives could be. The money and materials the US has sent to Ukraine so far are a mere fraction of that amount. 

 

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/pentagon-audit-2666415734/#:~:text=Last year%2C the Pentagon couldn,extent unbeknownst to the Pentagon.

18 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

I don't see how that's obvious at all. The US and EU thought (and said) that it was vitally important to help Ukraine to resist as best as possible, this illegal invasion and blatant violation of international law. 

 

That doesn't mean they thought Russia could ultimately be defeated. Many of the analyses that I heard and read seemed to hold that halting the Russian advance was probably the best that could be hoped for, followed by some kind of peace negotiations.

 

Quite a few people still hold that view, I reckon.

So, your contention is that because the western allies thought halting the Russian advance would be ended with negotiations, they thought it worth spending billions of $ ( then not available for their own citizens benefit ) so that billions of $ worth of infrastructure could be destroyed, many people would die, world food aid would be disrupted, energy supplies in Europe become more expensive etc etc etc, before the negotiations happened, rather than having negotiations BEFORE the conflict started? Really?

 

Russia, despite wishing and hoping isn't losing, and only has to dig in and fend off the Ukrainians till the west really does cut off the money train, following which Russia will likely get what it wants- Eastern Ukraine, Crimea and a guarantee that Ukraine does not join NATO. A lot of people died to get to what they could have had before the conflict.

 

Too many people in power want to kill other people for my liking. The UN was set up to prevent exactly this sort of fiasco and has failed, and failed and failed. Either dump the security council, which doesn't secure anything, or dump the entire waste of money ( except for the bits that actually work ).

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So, your contention is that because the western allies thought halting the Russian advance would be ended with negotiations, they thought it worth spending billions of $ ( then not available for their own citizens benefit ) so that billions of $ worth of infrastructure could be destroyed, many people would die, world food aid would be disrupted, energy supplies in Europe become more expensive etc etc etc, before the negotiations happened, rather than having negotiations BEFORE the conflict started? Really?

 

Russia, despite wishing and hoping isn't losing, and only has to dig in and fend off the Ukrainians till the west really does cut off the money train, following which Russia will likely get what it wants- Eastern Ukraine, Crimea and a guarantee that Ukraine does not join NATO. A lot of people died to get to what they could have had before the conflict.

 

Too many people in power want to kill other people for my liking. The UN was set up to prevent exactly this sort of fiasco and has failed, and failed and failed. Either dump the security council, which doesn't secure anything, or dump the entire waste of money ( except for the bits that actually work ).

Yes we all are quite aware of your roll over attitude.

Ukrainians are fighting for their own land and freedom.

Yes the UN has limited power but are they useless?No way.

Nato is the agency to look at, do you really think putin has the balls to attack any NATO country?

The Ukraine will join the EU and NATO no matter what russia wants.

Putin has broken his part of the deal.

Here is an idea,take the money that was taken from the russians(300 billion?) and give it to the Ukraine now so they can buy what they need to kick putin out.

Next month take ten F-16s and ten very brave pilots and take out the Crim bridge,big boom.

Then let us see what happens.

Interior unrest in russia is getting louder also and as the russians have experienced in the past few days,missiles can fly either way.

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So, your contention is that because the western allies thought halting the Russian advance would be ended with negotiations, they thought it worth spending billions of $ ( then not available for their own citizens benefit ) so that billions of $ worth of infrastructure could be destroyed, many people would die, world food aid would be disrupted, energy supplies in Europe become more expensive etc etc etc, before the negotiations happened, rather than having negotiations BEFORE the conflict started? Really?

 

Russia, despite wishing and hoping isn't losing, and only has to dig in and fend off the Ukrainians till the west really does cut off the money train, following which Russia will likely get what it wants- Eastern Ukraine, Crimea and a guarantee that Ukraine does not join NATO. A lot of people died to get to what they could have had before the conflict.

 

Too many people in power want to kill other people for my liking. The UN was set up to prevent exactly this sort of fiasco and has failed, and failed and failed. Either dump the security council, which doesn't secure anything, or dump the entire waste of money ( except for the bits that actually work ).

 

You are mistaken about what Putin's Ruzzia wants.

So your whole train of thoughts derails.

Happy New Year everyone and let's start with some good news from Ukraine

 

Ukraine eliminates all Russian drones, Russian ballistic missiles flying in the skies toward Kyiv

https://au.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-eliminates-russian-drones-russian-070400598.html

 

Forty-three Russian soldiers refuse combat in Luhansk Oblast

 

https://au.yahoo.com/news/forty-three-russian-soldiers-refuse-133500508.html

 

Some lucky ones are here hiding in Thailand, some back at Russia land couldn't/shouldn't have celebrated new year, they were grabbed and will be used as canon meat feeder  555

Russia rounds up migrants celebrating New Year’s Eve and enlists them to fight in Ukraine

https://au.yahoo.com/news/russia-rounds-migrants-celebrating-eve-062020276.html

 

 

karma works in many "funny"  different ways   555

 

Russia mistakenly fires missile at own city. Calls it ‘munition descent’

 

https://au.yahoo.com/news/russia-mistakenly-fires-missile-own-124500285.html

with friends like Vlad who needs enemies... what the heck did he do or say....   555

Russia's suspicious death count ticks higher as pro-Putin politician falls from a third-story window

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russias-suspicious-death-count-ticks-195803688.html

 

the so "called" invincible Yastreb-AV radar system is not as invincible as Russians thought  555

 

Special Operations Forces show how HIMARS hits Russian newest radar station

https://www.yahoo.com/news/special-operations-forces-show-himars-192030276.html

 

Vlad is desperate, he needs to prove (to the Russians) his propaganda was correct as many keep asking why, why and why ????

 

Vladimir Putin 'may seek confrontation with West' to justify high Russian battlefield casualties in his Ukraine war

https://au.yahoo.com/news/vladimir-putin-may-seek-confrontation-074331991.html

 

 

Czechs refuse to attend UN security council meeting called by Russia

https://au.yahoo.com/news/czechs-refuse-attend-un-security-172929144.html

 

Russia loses 790 soldiers, 9 tanks in a single day

 

https://au.yahoo.com/news/russia-loses-790-soldiers-9-121400672.html

the good news to finish the week

Ukraine just got a new Western air-defense system meant to wipe out Russian drones by firing 1,000 rounds per minute

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-just-got-western-air-172725335.html

 

Ukrainian forces snuck into Russia, raided military positions, and mined the only road in the area, Kyiv says

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-forces-snuck-russia-raided-182312545.html

 

German Skynex system, look and acts like something out of a Terminator movie.

 

Russians stupidity as its best, 7 x the same move  555

Russian forces repeated failed tank assaults 7 times across the same kill zone and were destroyed each time, says report

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-forces-repeated-failed-tank-132018894.html

 

Ukrainian marines cling on to key bridgehead after three Russian Su-34s shot down

https://www.yahoo.com/news/three-russian-fighter-jets-shot-154347419.html

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/06/tired-volodymyr-zelensky-looks-too-weak-to-achieve-victo

 

Retired colonel Richard Kemp of the Telegraph who has been one of their biggest cheerleaders having visited there many times during the war now opines Ukraine cannot win. Continuing a senseless fight now just adds to the senseless slaughter. It should be noted that like many others he is now actively reporting on the Gaza war having been embedded with the IDF at one point and looks like he has switched horses to ride with them. Zelenskiy is right to feel in the final analysis to gave been betrayed by his fairweather friends and no amount of speculative wunderwaffe can win the war. Not in any instance is there any to give the UK is having to mothball ships due to a shortage of sailors. Gen Z who would do the fighting just don't want to anymore.

19 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/06/tired-volodymyr-zelensky-looks-too-weak-to-achieve-victo

 

Retired colonel Richard Kemp of the Telegraph who has been one of their biggest cheerleaders having visited there many times during the war now opines Ukraine cannot win. Continuing a senseless fight now just adds to the senseless slaughter. It should be noted that like many others he is now actively reporting on the Gaza war having been embedded with the IDF at one point and looks like he has switched horses to ride with them. Zelenskiy is right to feel in the final analysis to gave been betrayed by his fairweather friends and no amount of speculative wunderwaffe can win the war. Not in any instance is there any to give the UK is having to mothball ships due to a shortage of sailors. Gen Z who would do the fighting just don't want to anymore.

Trying to make something out of nothing there. Kemp has always been a little pessimistic, more to do with the Wests failure to supply the needed and promised military equipment and ammunition's on time and longer range weapons.

 

Its nothing to do whatsoever with his covering of the war in Israel.

 

Here's an article of his from the Telegraph in Sept (no paywall as article copied on his own site): UKRAINE’S COUNTER-OFFENSIVE IS STALLING. THE WEST MUST PREPARE FOR HUMILIATION

 

Another from July: Ukraine’s counter-offensive is failing, with no easy fixes

51 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Trying to make something out of nothing there. Kemp has always been a little pessimistic, more to do with the Wests failure to supply the needed and promised military equipment and ammunition's on time and longer range weapons.

 

Its nothing to do whatsoever with his covering of the war in Israel.

 

Here's an article of his from the Telegraph in Sept (no paywall as article copied on his own site): UKRAINE’S COUNTER-OFFENSIVE IS STALLING. THE WEST MUST PREPARE FOR HUMILIATION

 

Another from July: Ukraine’s counter-offensive is failing, with no easy fixes

Thanks for the links I hadn't read them. That reinforces my point that informed unbiased  opinion thinks that Ukraine is losing and badly. That being the case what is to be gained by continuing the fight with what appears to be a badly trained often unmotivated conscript army increasingly forcibly conscripted and often of older years. The point about pundits covering Gaza wasn't to slur on Kemps intentions but the reality is the global attention has shifted focus onto Israel from Ukraine to the latter's detriment as Zelensiy sadly knows too well. Netanhayu refused a visit from him whilst accepting every other world leader soon after October 7th.

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Thanks for the links I hadn't read them. That reinforces my point that informed unbiased  opinion thinks that Ukraine is losing and badly. That being the case what is to be gained by continuing the fight with what appears to be a badly trained often unmotivated conscript army increasingly forcibly conscripted and often of older years. The point about pundits covering Gaza wasn't to slur on Kemps intentions but the reality is the global attention has shifted focus onto Israel from Ukraine to the latter's detriment as Zelensiy sadly knows too well. Netanhayu refused a visit from him whilst accepting every other world leader soon after October 7th.

Actually no, all it does is reinforce Kemps view that has remined consistent and not as you put it below, he also does not say Ukraine cannot win as you put below and he has not switched horses to Israel as you put below as he is still writing about Ukraine. All in all, as I said, you were making something out of nothing.

 

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Retired colonel Richard Kemp of the Telegraph who has been one of their biggest cheerleaders having visited there many times during the war now opines Ukraine cannot win. Continuing a senseless fight now just adds to the senseless slaughter. It should be noted that like many others he is now actively reporting on the Gaza war having been embedded with the IDF at one point and looks like he has switched horses to ride with them. Zelenskiy is right to feel in the final analysis to gave been betrayed by his fairweather friends and no amount of speculative wunderwaffe can win the war. Not in any instance is there any to give the UK is having to mothball ships due to a shortage of sailors. Gen Z who would do the fighting just don't want to anymore.

 

If you look at what has happened at the front then yes,not much has really shifted.

No major battles has helped either side gain a lot of land.

So the Ukraine is losing?All that money gone and not much to show for it?

Not so fast,the last couple of months the Ukrainian army and partizans have done a lot away from the frontlines.

Crimea has had a lot of attacks that focused on logistics and many ships have been sunk.

Waiting for the F16 s ,can be another 3 or 4 months.

Russia ,i believe,is slowly falling apart from the inside.

Their economy is not doing very well at all and slowly the people are waking up to the idea that

it is all not worth it.

Nearly 300 000 soldiers dead because of the crazy ideas of just one little man!

That is truly insane i think.

They say the West and the USA are getting tired of this war!

Tired?No Western lives are lost ,they only send equipment and money.

I say send more and send it now,stop putin!

5 hours ago, jvs said:

No Western lives are lost

 

 

You are mistaken. Every Ukrainian that is killed is a lost Western life.

37 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

You are mistaken. Every Ukrainian that is killed is a lost Western life.

I am not mistaken,that is how a lot of people see it.

I think every life is important.

How to boost the moral of russian soldiers?

Send a colonel  named Arman Ospanov to give a speech and inspect the troops.

All good so far.

 Ukrainian fire makes him walk away to hide from the incoming bullets and he steps on a mine!!

Dead!

(source from a Dutch newspaper.)

57 minutes ago, jvs said:

How to boost the moral of russian soldiers?

Send a colonel  named Arman Ospanov to give a speech and inspect the troops.

All good so far.

 Ukrainian fire makes him walk away to hide from the incoming bullets and he steps on a mine!!

Dead!

(source from a Dutch newspaper.)

 

Top Russian Airborne Officer Killed in Ukraine: Reports

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/top-russian-airborne-officer-killed-in-ukraine-reports/ar-AA1mEYj2

Ukrainian forces track Russian flamethrower system and call in HIMARS strike - video

https://au.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-forces-track-russian-flamethrower-145000254.html

 

Russia struggled to push the Ukrainians into the river after its planes were shot down, intel says, showing how a surprising failure at the war's start is still a problem

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-struggled-push-ukrainians-river-195027559.html

 

 

 

Russian anti-drone gunner fails against Ukrainian drone — video

https://au.yahoo.com/news/russian-anti-drone-gunner-fails-162800575.html

 

Ukrainian forces detain dozens of Russian troops in southern Ukraine over past 3 days

 

https://au.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-forces-detain-dozens-russian-135000355.html

 

 

now that's (good news) Karma... sure it didn't help troop's moral 555

Russian colonel killed after 'stepping on mine' during visit to boost morale on Ukraine frontline

https://au.yahoo.com/news/russian-colonel-killed-stepping-mine-154419269.html

 

slowly but surely they keep kicking Russians axxxses

Ukraine destroys Russian air defense in Crimea ‘layer by layer’

 

https://au.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-destroys-russian-air-defense-151900718.html

they are progressing step by step.... desperately waiting for the F16

 

Ukrainian missile strike on Russian warship Admiral Essen marked debut of Neptune missile — Navy

 

https://au.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-missile-strike-russian-warship-102500270.html

no chickens, thus no eggs .... all the "chicken" moved to Pattaya and/or Phuket....  555

Unprecedented inflation for basic foods has Russians queuing for eggs – Soviet-style

https://au.yahoo.com/news/unprecedented-inflation-basic-foods-russians-130400149.html

 

Ukraine needs western help with guns, ammunition, and please rush the F16's delivery as they will be of great use, take a look a what are doing without them, imagine what they could do with them

26 Russian helicopters, 12 planes destroyed on ground, not in the air – Ukrainian Air Force

https://au.yahoo.com/news/26-russian-helicopters-12-planes-151600545.html

Ukraine holds firm even though Russia’s ambitions extend beyond Kharkiv — Ground Forces spokesperson

https://au.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-holds-firm-even-though-140400351.html