Why do we continue to receive smaller pensions than European expats?

[webfact]

 

by Michael Bridge

An old chestnut maybe, but I feel I am being penalised for deciding to move to Thailand to retire.

As a British taxpayer for most of my life, the UK awarded me the top bracket for my pension when I reached 65 years old.

That was seven years ago, and they gave me GBP177.50 a week. 

OK to start with that meant they transferred THB36,400 a month to my Thai bank account. 

Now at the current exchange rate that has dropped to THB31,237 a month.

However, as this is not indexed linked, I still get GBP177.50 today because OAPs in Asia are not entitled to have their payments indexed linked at all.

 

If, however, I had decided to retire to say Spain, today they would be sending me GBP185.00 a week, which would equate at today’s exchange rate to THB35,417 a month.

That said an extra THB4,180 a month would go a long way in buying my monthly food bill.

I left England back in 2004 after divorcing my wife and therefore canceled all my UK bank accounts as I moved to the UAE and then Thailand.

Now I am sure several of you who still retain an address in the UK, could get around the system by having their pension paid into a UK bank and then sent over here.

However, you do need a permanent UK address, which I do not have.

Unfair retiring in Thailand

I still find it hard to take on board that if I paid my taxes and National insurance why can I not choose where I want to live?

What difference to the UK Pension office is it, if they transfer my pension to Spain or Thailand?

It is about time all of us UK expats got a fair deal.

Let us know if you are also becoming the poor relation in expat pension transfers or is it just our bad luck.

Could we do anything about it?

 

YES....Here is the latest petition to the British government.

 

Please add your name.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/601821

 

 

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[Wiggy]

You can’t really blame Asia in general, as the Philippines is index linked. 
 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/state-pensions-annual-increases-if-you-live-abroad/countries-where-we-pay-an-annual-increase-in-the-state-pension

[Onerak]

I think it should be index linked (or adjusted for inflation, I assume) no matter where you live. At least social security in the USA is. 

[Mike Teavee]

Has nothing to do with living in Asia, it's all to do with whether the country has a reciprical social security arrangement with the UK or not & Thailand doesn't (whereas as already been mentioned The Philippines does).

 

It seems that approximately 1/2 of all pensioners who live overseas have frozen pensions but this has little to do with living in Thailand as 90% of those live in Commonwealth countries (e.g. Australia, Canada India, Pakistan, New Zealand etc... where you.d expect there to be an agreement in place) 

 

Countries where the UK pension is frozen... 

 

 

 

http://frozenbritishpensions.org/the-problem/

 

[KhunLA]

185 a week is top braket ... and they expect you to be able to live on that ????

[Nicholas Paul KNIGHT]

Any person retiring should be able to get the increases especially on the British Old Age pension, however most people knew that Thailand was not going to be uprated as others were, not only Thailand by the way . 

For years many have been campaigning for this restriction to be lifted and still it has not despite going to the Supreme Courts in the land and even the EU when we belonged .

No point complaining, move or put up with it, everyone knows and many sympathise, just think of those that still , although retired pay UK Income tax. 

[itsari]

The European Court Of Human Rights ruled against the plaintiff on the UK Government on indexed linked pension payments to those living abroad in 2008.

Australia decided to abandon any social agreement with the UK on this issue . 

I think there needs to be a case taken to the UN human rights court in Geneva to reverse that decision by Australia .

[Gottfrid]

What! Even considering moving to and living in Thailand with smaller than 60 - 80 K THB per month. That´s just out of touch with reality. 

[Asquith Production]

If theirs one thing that the UK Government does that angers me is this inequality with pensioners. I have my pension paid into my UK bank and then move across when the exchange rate is favorable. It does not cost the UK Government anything extra so I do not understand this so called reciprocal agreement. The only thing different is my address. 

 

The UK have actually committed fraud in my opinion and it is about time that  everybody got together to fight this.

[itsari]

5 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

What! Even considering moving to and living in Thailand with smaller than 60 - 80 K THB per month. That´s just out of touch with reality. 

Reality for most foreign pensioners living in Thailand . 

Manageable to live on 15000 a month if you own your home . 

You appear to be the one out of touch with reality 

[itsari]

22 minutes ago, Nicholas Paul KNIGHT said:

Any person retiring should be able to get the increases especially on the British Old Age pension, however most people knew that Thailand was not going to be uprated as others were, not only Thailand by the way . 

For years many have been campaigning for this restriction to be lifted and still it has not despite going to the Supreme Courts in the land and even the EU when we belonged .

No point complaining, move or put up with it, everyone knows and many sympathise, just think of those that still , although retired pay UK Income tax. 

UK continues to be commited to the European Human Righs Court decisions despite Brexit

[Oxx]

45 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Has nothing to do with living in Asia, it's all to do with whether the country has a reciprical social security arrangement with the UK or not

That old chestnut is a fig leaf.  The existence or otherwise of a reciprocal agreement doesn't affect the ability for the UK to increase pensions.  It's just that successive governments have preferred to squander money on other things, rather than to treat all pensions equally.

 

Incidentally, the UK doesn't have reciprocal agreements with EU members, but the government decided it would inflation-link pensions for pensioners living in the UK.  I guess they didn't want the political backlash.

[wombat]

Welcome to the realization that somewhere in the Civil Service is a member of staff who was promoted for saving the treasury money 

[hotchilli]

42 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

185 a week is top braket ... and they expect you to be able to live on that ????

The way things are going 185 per week might buy a loaf of bread in the UK

[BritManToo]

50 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

185 a week is top braket ... and they expect you to be able to live on that ????

Full UK state pension is currently 179 pounds/week.

Don't know how the OP got 185 pounds/week nearly 7 years back.

They're currently thinking of raising the state pension age to 70.

Imagine working as a lorry driver when you're 69 years old!

[hereforgood]

4 hours ago, Onerak said:

I think it should be index linked (or adjusted for inflation, I assume) no matter where you live. At least social security in the USA is. 

Yep my SS cost of living raise this year was 95 US dollars

[vandeventer]

10 minutes ago, itsari said:

Reality for most foreign pensioners living in Thailand . 

Manageable to live on 15000 a month if you own your home . 

You appear to be the one out of touch with reality 

I think most foreigners from most countries get a lot less  pension living outside their home country. Things like rental assistance and health insurance for starters. But we all knew that before we came here. So if you feel like you are being cheated, go back home and get the extras.

[topt]

49 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

185 a week is top braket ... and they expect you to be able to live on that ????

He meant, I believe, the maximum state pension at that time. I am sure the author has other "pensions" or investments.

 

This article seems like click bait as gets discussed ad nauseum in the pensions thread - or used to. 

[topt]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Don't know how the OP got 185 pounds/week nearly 7 years back.

He said £177.50?

4 hours ago, webfact said:

and they gave me GBP177.50 a week. 

 

Probably because of SERPS or similar - if accurate.........

[stigar]

Im shocked over ur low pension.Mine is almost 4.500 pound a month.But im from another countrynorway)If yoy compare to ex sweden and finland their pension is much lower.My friend have worked in norway for 20 years,but never paid tax here for secure a higher pension.NOW he really regret because mixed with the sweden and finland pension he only got about 23.000 bath.So he is refused to stop work until he day he die ha told me.

[verticalift]

Consider yourself lucky receiving £177/month from the UK.
 

As a recently retired Canadian Expat previously employed as a pilot in Abu Dhabi, I receive a meager $440.80CAD, or between 11,000 to 11,500 Baht each month (depending on the ROE) from the Canadian Gov’t.

 

Though I had planned working to age 65yrs, when Covid rolled around in 2020, the UAE Gov’t decided to sack…… Oupps, sorry….. “Retire” most all crews over 60yrs of age. I was 62 at the time and employed as a Senior Captain flying helicopters to the offshore oil platforms out of Abu Dhabi.
 

Making application to start receiving my Canadian Pension with direct wire transfer of Pension funds to my Thai bank account, for the first 12 months the Canadian Gov’t posted me paper cheques. My Thai bank would then charge me approx 500 Baht to deposit each CAD$$$ cheque into my Thai bank account. Fortunately in late 2021 I was able to get the direct wire transfer issue sorted, saving myself 6,000B/yr.

 

Having lived in Phuket for over the past 24yrs, commuting to/from work in Abu Dhabi, I am most fortunate that the house is all bought and paid for and my expenses are minimal. But, going from $16,000+K USD per month down to 11,000 Baht per month is most certainly…….

”Challenging”.

Enjoy your retirement…..

 

[Speedhump]

30 minutes ago, itsari said:

Reality for most foreign pensioners living in Thailand . 

Manageable to live on 15000 a month if you own your home . 

You appear to be the one out of touch with reality 

The common area maintenance charge, plus my water and electricity at my housing resort is around 10,000. Wouldn't leave much except for somtam and rice, and pray not to get sick. 

[Hummin]

I just checked the lowest pention rate for Norwegians for single (couple get less), and it is 67 670,- baht with yesterdays transfer rate bank to bank from Norway to Thailand. 

That is a huge gap.

 

Norway do not index regulate

[KarenBravo]

When the pension first came out, there were 11 workers for every retiree.

Because of an aging population, this ratio is expected to go to two workers for every retiree by the year 2056.

Add in that life expectancy has increased dramatically and you can see that government funded pensions are becoming less and less affordable.

That is why people have been complaining about no increases to their pensions until they are blue in the face, for years. Nothing has changed and nothing will.

[KhunLA]

59 minutes ago, itsari said:

Reality for most foreign pensioners living in Thailand . 

Manageable to live on 15000 a month if you own your home . 

You appear to be the one out of touch with reality 

But what visa does that qualify for.  Does explain why more than a few left Thailand due to Brexit / GBP drop.

[KarenBravo]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

But what visa does that qualify for.  Does explain why more than a few left Thailand due to Brexit / GBP drop.

You do know that you can comply with a visa requirement financially, and then live cheaply?

The two are not mutually exclusive.

[Fairynuff]

1 hour ago, Gottfrid said:

What! Even considering moving to and living in Thailand with smaller than 60 - 80 K THB per month. That´s just out of touch with reality. 

You’re assuming his pension is his only income

 

33 minutes ago, Speedhump said:

The common area maintenance charge, plus my water and electricity at my housing resort is around 10,000. Wouldn't leave much except for somtam and rice, and pray not to get sick. 

Looks like you’re being ripped off then

[stigar]

14 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I just checked the lowest pention rate for Norwegians for single (couple get less), and it is 67 670,- baht with yesterdays transfer rate bank to bank from Norway to Thailand. 

That is a huge gap.

 

Norway do not index regulate

I get 44721 NOK every month.I get a high pension because its higher if get an goverment approved pension after a accident at work offshore.From 20 of march 2 different incurecompines will pay me about 3000 NOK extra pr month.In 2018 the incurance gave me almost 2,6 million NOK after the accident.THey also gave me 70.000 NOK  for future transportbills.So its a big different depends what country ur from and pay ur tax to.

[Gottfrid]

5 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

You’re assuming his pension is his only income

Yes, I am, hence the problem with some currency movements. However, it might not be. In that case I will guess savings, that will not last enough long time. Otherwise no need to worry, right?

Too many people do the big mistake of putting their trust into big dreams of air. Just doesn´t work in the long run.

[Hummin]

5 minutes ago, stigar said:

I get 44721 NOK every month.I get a high pension because its higher if get an goverment approved pension after a accident at work offshore.From 20 of march 2 different incurecompines will pay me about 3000 NOK extra pr month.In 2018 the incurance gave me almost 2,6 million NOK after the accident.THey also gave me 70.000 NOK  for future transportbills.So its a big different depends what country ur from and pay ur tax to.

You got a disability pention based on your earlier average income for the last 5 years, and supposed to cover your future losses, not a pention after been working your whole life and already should have built up and secured your life. And insurance have nothing to do with pentions, that is additional to your pention. 
 

Tread starter talking about minimum pentions and the differences betwen the europeen countries.