Thai tourism emphasises its neutrality in the Ukraine war, calls for a review of payment systems

[phetphet]

4 hours ago, wombat said:

Uncle Vlad he be so smart,

8 years in the planning and Chinese banking is how he will get round the sanctions.

Suck it up western banking your about to lose money.

Do you really think China wants to risk the same sanctions from the rest of the world as Russia by aiding them?

Put at risk their global sales and risk their own economy?

I don't think so.

Maybe in a few years they might work together to reduce the effect of this sort of western threat, but no way are they either ready or willing to do it now.

They are already stepping back a little.

I think Uncle Vlad as you call him has badly miscalculated this time. Even if he wins the war, and it is a war, maintaining control over such a large country and an unwilling population will be extremely difficult and costly. And all the time the sanctions will be biting the Russian economy.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

It just seems you criticise America but, though you are not condoning Russia, you seem hesitant to criticise them, and refer to some  propaganda, or other.

Don't get me wrong, I was defending Thailand actually. Of course I think what Russia is doing is deplorable! Many people here criticize Thailand for being neutral, despite their own countries doing similar, or worse acts of war, that's all. 

[0james0]

1 hour ago, Pravda said:

 

Just like Russian propaganda, I can assure you that the West is doing the part 

 

Absolutely true, most of which is decimated from all those batting out in the left field.  

Edited March 11, 2022 by 0james0

[Rimmer]

Inflammatory, troll and just plain off topic posts and replies have been removed

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, 0james0 said:

Okay right, USA is bad and evil. Imagine what the world would be like without the US involvement in world affairs. I suppose you'd be under the oppression of a Chinese, German or Russian dictator and would not have the opportunity to freely express your concerns here without risking execution. 

 

Sure the US has made bad calls and probably will again. Though by far, the US has lifted most of the world out of poverty and has been the leader in advance technologies and not the to mention basic human rights. 

 

So to the ignorant USA haters...you simply have no idea. 

Here some nice reading, might open your mind a bit, or not but that is up to you;  https://www.thaipbsworld.com/ukraine-lessons-for-everyone-but-russia/?fbclid=IwAR3fduTXiY40V4NTJZ0UOoj5d7bMYbWnzuJ8FZswCP_zX8yivtfse7M3r7c

 

[rudi49jr]

Thai tourism emphasizes its neutrality in Ukraine war, and will attend a tourism fair in Moscow..

 

Translation: we have no morals, we just want your money. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by rudi49jr

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Some more history for you, when Ukraine and Russia decided to part, one of the promises made was that Ukraine would never be a part of Nato. Ukraine decided to dump that promise.

 

What did the Russian Federation attest to when they signed the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances in 1994?

 

Here's an aide memoire (with my emphasis).

 

1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

 

2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

 

3. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.

 

4. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.

 

5. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm, in the case of Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a State in association or alliance with a nuclear-weapon State.

 

6. Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America will consult in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning these commitments.

 

Nope. Not a hint of anyone being forbidden from exercising their freedom to choose their own political or military alliances.

 

None whatsoever.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

Here some nice reading, might open your mind a bit, or not but that is up to you;  https://www.thaipbsworld.com/ukraine-lessons-for-everyone-but-russia/?fbclid=IwAR3fduTXiY40V4NTJZ0UOoj5d7bMYbWnzuJ8FZswCP_zX8yivtfse7M3r7c

 

A good read, thanks.

 

However, I am averse to anyone who so heavily relies on Mearsheimer when stating their opinions. When they further embellish their op-ed by touting Mearsheimer as "one of the most influential and respected realists of our generation" then the 'grain of salt' no longer applies.

[naka dia]

While Putin is bombing innocent people, killing women and children every day, TAT has nothing better to do than to fly to Moscow for a trade fair?

 

The only thing Thailand could do to bring back Russian tourism is to stand up against Putin, support the sanctions and make sure this war ends as soon as possible. Only and end to the war can bring end to the economic crisis for Russian people.

 

I want to make clear that I don't blame the Russian people for their presidents mistakes and they need support to stay in Thailand or return home

Edited March 11, 2022 by naka dia

[naka dia]

6 hours ago, wombat said:

Uncle Vlad he be so smart,

8 years in the planning and Chinese banking is how he will get round the sanctions.

Suck it up western banking your about to lose money.

Smart? He bankrupted the biggest country of the planet, isolated his country from most of the world and only has the most evil dictators as partners now. lets see where that will leave Russia

 

Don't forget he can't access 350billion in assets of his central bank, and when ever these assets will be unfrozen they will be used to build up Ukraine again, making Ukraine better than ever, while Russia will be a third world neighbour. 

 

...and all of it for no reason but his ego. You call that smart?

[SimonRoget]

Those who live in Thailand and enjoy the many pleasantries - which they lacked in their home countries - should do better than denounce their host country, in particular the decision to take an impartial position on how to treat Russian ( and Ukrainian ) stranded Tourists.

It will be to the loss of Visa and Mastercharge, as Amex to cut off Russian cardholders from their accounts. 

Noone cries a tear for Monsanto s McDonald and Coke junkchain though. 

[khunPer]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

Russian tourists holidaying in Phuket last week as Tourism Authority of Thailand Governor Yuthasak Supasorn (right) tells tourism sector operators that everything must be done for stranded Russian tourists and that more are on the way.

What about stranded Ukrainians..?

[sawadee1947]

I think it's quite obvious that Thailand is asking to become a chinese province. 

Good Luck ????

[DjSilver]

I vote for import/export sanctions against Thailand ????????

[IntheSouth]

8 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Sorry, but F neutral. Places like Switzerland, Ireland etc (albeit on a governmental level) did this before, didn't get their hands dirty and sat back with the eventual stability that the fighters brought. Thailand, do not be a wet rag! Don't dance with the devil if just your economy is at stake.

 Ireland does not have anti tank or anti aircraft weapons to send to Ukraine but Ireland is certainly not neutral.  They instantly opened the borders to unlimited numbers of refugees.  On arrival they are given a PPS number entitling money (over 200 euro a week, I think) a free medical card and somewhere to live.  If neutral is sitting on the fence, then Ireland and the Irish are not neutral.  

 

And Putin is banned for life from every Irish pub worldwide... I mean what more can Ireland do?

[ThailandRyan]

13 minutes ago, IntheSouth said:

 Ireland does not have anti tank or anti aircraft weapons to send to Ukraine but Ireland is certainly not neutral.  They instantly opened the borders to unlimited numbers of refugees.  On arrival they are given a PPS number entitling money (over 200 euro a week, I think) a free medical card and somewhere to live.  If neutral is sitting on the fence, then Ireland and the Irish are not neutral.  

 

And Putin is banned for life from every Irish pub worldwide... I mean what more can Ireland do?

They could send the IRA hit sguad after him....

[ThailandGuy]

All 'Bout The Money

Sometimes I find another world

Inside my mind
When I realise
The crazy things we do
It makes me feel ashamed to be alive
It makes me wanna run away and hide

 

It's all 'bout the money
It's all 'bout the dum dum da da dum dum
I don't think It's funny
To see us fade away
It's all 'bout the money
It's all 'bout the dum dum da da dum dum
And I think we got it all wrong anyway

 

We find strange ways of showing
Them how much we really care
When in fact
We just don't seem to care at all

And this pretty world
Is getting out of hand
So tell me how we fail to understand?

 

It's all 'bout the money
All 'bout the dum dum da da dum dum
I don? t think it's funny
To see us fade away
It's all 'bout the money
It's all 'bout the dum dum da da dum dum
And I think we got it all wrong anyway
Anyway

Cause it's all 'bout the money

It's all 'bout the money
It's all 'bout the dum dum da da dum dum
I don't think it's funny
To see us fade away
It's all 'bout the money
It's all 'bout the dum dum da da dum dum
And I think we got it all wrong
Anyway

 

It's all 'bout the money
It's all 'bout the dum dum da da dum dum
I don't think it's funny
To see us fade away
It's all 'bout the money
It's all 'bout the dum dum da da dum dum
And I think we got it all wrong anyway
Anyway

Edited March 11, 2022 by ThailandGuy
incomplete text

[HappyExpat57]

5 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Why should everybody jump into a war because the USA and Western Europe would like NATO to have arms directly on the Russian border? 

Putin has made it quite clear he won't stop at Ukraine unless he is stopped by the rest of the world. It's becoming abundantly clear we're ALL in this together, for better or worse.

[hotchilli]

11 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand’s tourism promotion agency will be attending a fair in Moscow over the coming days to drum up more tourism activity between the kingdom and Russia. Officials from the tourism promotion agency’s Moscow office will be attending the Moscow International Travel & Tourism Exhibition from March 15th to 17th

So why the rest of the [compassionate] world shuns all things Russian for their war on Ukraine, Thailand is going over to drum up business.

Why don't they go to Ukraine and offer Thailand as a safe haven if they want business?

Estimates have said 2 million have already left their homes for somewhere where bombs aren't falling.

Ohhh I forgot, you don't want people actually living here that don't invest anything... just spend money and go home.

I'm surprised Thailand hasn't offered the oligarchs super yachts a safe birth while things are looking bad. 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by hotchilli

[sambum]

"Thailand’s tourism supremo and Tourism Authority of Thailand boss, Governor Yuthasak Supasorn, has cautioned that foreign tourism numbers may be off by 30% in the first quarter of 2022"

 

That has got to be a first! (Or nearly a first!)

 

If I am reading it correctly, he is saying that their estimated figures of tourist arrivals are going to be down by 30% in the first quarter of 2022. "Off" impliers a deviation either way, but as per usual, disguise a "flip flop" with "doublespeak"!  

[smew]

For 22 yrs putin claims he has 75% population support.

Therefore, you get the government you deserve.  So, Russian tourists should rely on putin to arrange support and evacuation when needed.

Like was done during early covid.

Maybe their aeroflot planes are running out of spare parts and will all be grounded soon.

 

Neutrality= spineless       

[sambum]

31 minutes ago, ThailandGuy said:

All 'Bout The Money

Sometimes I find another world

Inside my mind
When I realise
The crazy things we do
It makes me feel ashamed to be alive
It makes me wanna run away and hide

 

It's all 'bout the money
It's all 'bout the dum dum da da dum dum
I don't think It's funny
To see us fade away
It's all 'bout the money
It's all 'bout the dum dum da da dum dum
And I think we got it all wrong anyway

 

We find strange ways of showing
Them how much we really care
When in fact
We just don't seem to care at all

And this pretty world
Is getting out of hand
So tell me how we fail to understand?

 

It's all 'bout the money
All 'bout the dum dum da da dum dum
I don? t think it's funny
To see us fade away
It's all 'bout the money
It's all 'bout the dum dum da da dum dum
And I think we got it all wrong anyway
Anyway

Cause it's all 'bout the money

It's all 'bout the money
It's all 'bout the dum dum da da dum dum
I don't think it's funny
To see us fade away
It's all 'bout the money
It's all 'bout the dum dum da da dum dum
And I think we got it all wrong
Anyway

 

It's all 'bout the money
It's all 'bout the dum dum da da dum dum
I don't think it's funny
To see us fade away
It's all 'bout the money
It's all 'bout the dum dum da da dum dum
And I think we got it all wrong anyway
Anyway

When you were editing your post, did it not occur to you to give the credit for the lyrics to the person who wrote/released the song? Or did you write it, in which case, my apologies.

[ThailandRyan]

8 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

So why the rest of the [compassionate] world shuns all things Russian for their war on Ukraine, Thailand is going over to drum up business.

Why don't they go to Ukraine and offer Thailand as a safe haven if they want business?

Estimates have said 2 million have already left their homes for somewhere where bombs aren't falling.

Ohhh I forgot, you don't want people actually living here that don't invest anything... just spend money and go home.

I'm surprised Thailand hasn't offered the oligarchs super yachts a safe birth while things are looking bad. 

 

Yes sir they should be paying to bring the Ukrainian refugees here and then assisting them with jobs....Thailand might even prosper if they did this.

[racket]

On the other hand, now that Russians switch over to the UnionPay electronic payment system, the amount of countries utilizing this technology are few.
 

In fact, only a handful of nations including Thailand offers UnionPay. That means , traveling for Russians in the future will be very selective and therefore, maybe I’m looking at this whole thing as a contrarian dilemma, but the amount of Russian tourists could actually increase to Thailand because of this. 
 

One can obviously not ignore the economic impact Russians are facing, but I do assume many, if not most Russians, hold other currencies such as dollars or euros which they could easily spend overseas rather than in Russia. 
 

Looking back in 2014, the situation in Crimea was just as bad for ordinary Russian and the collapse of their currency, but somehow Russians still managed to travel and enjoy holidays just as normal. 
 

Maybe Russia becomes an autarky experiment we never thought was possible. 
 

Time will tell..

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

What did the Russian Federation attest to when they signed the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances in 1994?

 

Here's an aide memoire (with my emphasis).

 

1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

 

2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

 

3. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.

 

4. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.

 

5. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm, in the case of Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a State in association or alliance with a nuclear-weapon State.

 

6. Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America will consult in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning these commitments.

 

Nope. Not a hint of anyone being forbidden from exercising their freedom to choose their own political or military alliances.

 

None whatsoever.

There is another "treaty" between Russia and Ukraine about amongst things:

Ukraine will get rid of his nuclear weapons

Ukraine will not join NATO

Ukraine will decrease the size of their army from about 900K to 300K (not sure about these numbers)

[sambum]

11 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Yes sir they should be paying to bring the Ukrainian refugees here and then assisting them with jobs....Thailand might even prosper if they did this.

TAT won't like that - their mission in life is to attract PAYING visitors/tourists, not bring people here to give them jobs and pay them!

No, they would rather attract paying Russians, but neglect to tell them that they will have trouble getting money to pay their bills while they are here! 

[fusion58]

“Thai tourism emphasises its neutrality in the Ukraine war…”

 

Translation: “Just want to reassure you all we’re still for sale to the highest bidder.”

[Henk Langeweg]

Someone started already a crowdfund action?

[DJ54]

A tourism convention is a bit insane during a conflict 

[ThailandRyan]

3 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

A tourism convention is a bit insane during a conflict 

But in Russia its not a conflict, but they are saving the Ukraine from the Nazi fascists, and many are buying into the rhetoric.  I wonder what all of the mothers of the now over 11k dead Russian soldiers must be thinking.