Thailand does the math: Two are dying per hour on the Thai roads

[Thunglom]

4 hours ago, DezLez said:

I believe that the figures for deaths resulting from road accidents in Thailand are only of those pronounced dead at the scene and do not include those who die later as a result of their injuries which means the actual fatality figures are even higher/worse!

No they are not. This is a myth.

[robsamui]

7 minutes ago, TheScience said:

Vietnam lol.

 

Back in the early 1990s we used to sit on busy corners drinking beer and taking bets when the next accident would occur. There was an accident perhaps every 10 minutes.

 

I've got visited South Vietnam for well over 20 years and I'm sure that things have got a lot better but those were the days when everyone had a shiny new motorcycle and no one had a license.

I've just left (south) Vietnam after being there for 2 years. Nothing's changed.

There are sooooo many m'bikes that the govt has given up wanting anything to do with them - so no need of ownership papers, registration, tax or insurance. I was told that 4,000 m'bikes a month are stolen in V'nam.

Thus the nice new shiny ones are the first ones to disappear . . .  as I know from experience.

[Reigntax]

Lucky this 2022 is not a leap

year. That’s 48 lives saved !!

Edited March 26, 2022 by Reigntax

[Thunglom]

Thailand has NOT done the maths and that is the problem.

What you see is one set of figures about road deaths either in total or per 100k.

This is only a tiny part of the stats required.

THEN before you claim to have "done the math", you need to analyse the stats. Once you have done this you have to ask WHY?

This question has NEVER ben answered.

Personal observation and anecdote are not part of this process - they are grossly misleading.

The government needs wake up and put in process internationally proven science to address the problem. If they don't, no significant change will occur - as has been shown for the past 30 years.

 

Telling people you saw someone "driving badly" or "the police don't do their job" is totally missing the point.

[robsamui]

5 hours ago, DezLez said:

I believe that the figures for deaths resulting from road accidents in Thailand are only of those pronounced dead at the scene and do not include those who die later as a result of their injuries which means the actual fatality figures are even higher/worse!

Yes, that law came into play in 2005.

On Koh Samui there used to be one fatal accident every 2 or 3 days. Back in the early 2000s this was reported every month in the local farang Community newspaper, using figures obtained from the local government hospital.

But then they changed the method of "recording" road deaths and overnight the figures dropped down to 2 or 3 deaths a month.

 

(It's also worth noting that the figures themselves are suspect - according to official statements there has been no change at all in the number of roads deaths since 2005 - the same every month at between 1 and 3. However the number of vehicles of all kinds has more than doubled over the las 17 years.)

 

(Chart taken from Facebook Group Roads of Koh Samui.)

Edited March 26, 2022 by robsamui

[Thunglom]

11 minutes ago, robsamui said:

Yes, that law came into play in 2005.

On Koh Samui there used to be one fatal accident every 2 or 3 days. Back in the early 2000s this was reported every month in the local farang Community newspaper, using figures obtained from the local government hospital.

But then they changed the method of "recording" road deaths and overnight the figures dropped down to 2 or 3 deaths a month.

 

(Chart taken from Facebook Group Roads of Koh Samui.)

 

this is not how stats re gathered nationally for Thailand.

 

It is interesting that the sources of the later stats are not defined.

[The Deerhunter]

5 hours ago, Enzian said:

Walking around Sukhumvit I used to see a break in the traffic and think I can make it! I can make it! now I think do I want to risk my life to save 30 seconds? Which makes me wonder if pedestrian deaths have gone down at all.

Well, you'll chance of dying that way certainly has!

[Burma Bill]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

appalling state of the Thai Roads.

and the appalling state of Thai driving??

[robsamui]

37 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

No they are not. This is a myth.

Absolute rubbish. Get off your sofa and come and live in Thailand. The "dead on the roads" maxim is well documented online and is a part of everyone's lives . . .  if you live here, in Thailand, that is.

[TropicalGuy]

5 hours ago, DezLez said:

I believe that the figures for deaths resulting from road accidents in Thailand are only of those pronounced dead at the scene and do not include those who die later as a result of their injuries which means the actual fatality figures are even higher/worse!

Typically truly around 23,000 yearly 80% young Thais on small m/ bikes.

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

It was observed in the report that encouraging Thais to wear face masks has been easy - getting them to wear helmets is quite another matter. 

It's a matter of enforcement.. which is lacking in favour of a monetary exchange.

[robsamui]

11 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

this is not how stats re gathered nationally for Thailand.

 

It is interesting that the sources of the later stats are not defined.

Read more carefully - this is the stats for Koh Samui. Source of stats is clearly stated

[Thunglom]

3 minutes ago, robsamui said:

Absolute rubbish. Get off your sofa and come and live in Thailand. The "dead on the roads" maxim is well documented online and is a part of everyone's lives . . .  if you live here, in Thailand, that is.

This lack of understanding of road safety and baseless assumptions are part of the reason that no progress is made. Looking at deaths per 100k is convenient for the media but it shows how poorly road safety is understood in Thailand.

[TropicalGuy]

39 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

No they are not. This is a myth.

Then what explains the typical 5,000 annual shortfall in actual road related deaths revealed by international studies ? and why don’t govt do these studies instead of sticking to the far lower “ official “ ( wrong) roadside-only deaths? 

[TropicalGuy]

5 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

It's a matter of enforcement.. which is lacking in favour of a monetary exchange.

No Rules here only Culture. Unless western std full -face type most helmets here if worn are for compliance only not safety

[Thunglom]

4 minutes ago, robsamui said:

Read more carefully - this is the stats for Koh Samui. Source of stats is clearly stated

 "in the local farang Community newspaper, using figures obtained from the local government hospital." - this is not a source it doesn't say how they were collated or who actually collected them.

Thailand is hopeless at gathering stats and trying to find death rates on 

Samui is a nightmare due to inaccurate and poor autistics gathering.

 

4 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

It's a matter of enforcement.. which is lacking in favour of a monetary exchange.

no it isn't - the police aren't ee trained to deal with traffic - you need to set up trained traffic police and a court/legal system to deal with the subsequent penalties and fines.

[TigerandDog]

1 hour ago, JimmyJ said:

Does public school in Thailand have Driver Education classes?

 

If so, are they mandatory?

who would teach it? Even our local driving school can't teach correctly. when my wife did a refresher course ( she has a license, but hasn't driven for more than 10 years ) I sat in the back seat and around 60% of the things he was teaching were wrong. Teachers in public schools only teach rote, and there's no such thing as failing, so what chance of kids learning to drive correctly. NONE.

[Millcx]

More die on roads than CONicrom and still the control freaks in Gov carry on .. But that’s what Muppets do “;0)

[hotchilli]

2 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

no it isn't - the police aren't ee trained to deal with traffic - you need to set up trained traffic police and a court/legal system to deal with the subsequent penalties and fines.

Who are the "Traffic police" then??

[SuwadeeS]

They might made their Math, but never learn their lessons.

Anyway. The Thai statistics is properly wrong. 

I do strongly believe, the dark figure will double it.

The real number with traffic fatalities is around 30.000.

There come many point together. Why?

1. The traffic increased.

2, The traffic got more dense.

3, People get more aggresive.

4. Kids without proper driving skills get a motorbike. Even thought it is against the law, parents still buy motorbikes for kids as young as 10-12 years old.

5. Then the old people I do know many old Thai, who do not have a proper reaction time and even can not see properly, means their eyes are down 75-80 %. But guess what? They are stubborn and deniable.

6. I see every hour uncountable traffic law violations. Means nobody really cares. Even the police. E.g. I know a police box, which is always occupied. But they always look away. Within 5 minutes I saw almost a thousand traffic violations.

7. As a matter of fact, nobody really care.

 

So let them all die in accidents!!!!

 

Whoever goes into danger will perish in it.

[bstafford214]

Since driving here in this country I have seen some real idiots that just don't seem to care. So many on the road think they must be the only people driving. I have become even more of a defensive driver. Just wish these people that don't know the traffic laws or don't care about them would learn to know them or care about others. Too many seem selfish and don't value anything but themselves, plus too many drunk drivers and the police do nothing about helmets not being worn.

[TropicalGuy]

41 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

Thailand has NOT done the maths and that is the problem.

What you see is one set of figures about road deaths either in total or per 100k.

This is only a tiny part of the stats required.

THEN before you claim to have "done the math", you need to analyse the stats. Once you have done this you have to ask WHY?

This question has NEVER ben answered.

Personal observation and anecdote are not part of this process - they are grossly misleading.

The government needs wake up and put in process internationally proven science to address the problem. If they don't, no significant change will occur - as has been shown for the past 30 years.

 

Telling people you saw someone "driving badly" or "the police don't do their job" is totally missing the point.

Culture here mitigates completely against scientific preventative road safety.  
 

Lack of low cost affordable cars,due to 100% Tax or High Price on all new vehicles , feeds through to used car market, so puts 95% untrained young Thais onto small motorbikes then 20k yearly into pine boxes. Govt. Tax Greed at its very worst 

[bstafford214]

3 hours ago, 2long said:

After more than 22 years here, I have 'got used to' quite a lot, including the weather, language, food, culture etc, but one thing I will never ever adapt to or accept is the dangerous driving, or even the selfish parking.

For a nation of polite, friendly people who have the phrase 'greng jai' which doesn't even directly translate in English, it never ceases to amaze me how bad most of them are.

Most of them only care about themselves and how quick they can get somewhere without considering the consequences of their poor I don't care attitude.

[Thunglom]

14 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Then what explains the typical 5,000 annual shortfall in actual road related deaths revealed by international studies ? and why don’t govt do these studies instead of sticking to the far lower “ official “ ( wrong) roadside-only deaths? 

THE government - as I said - is completely hopeless at dealing with road safety - like most of the people on this thread they have no idea. 

There are organisations both national and international that have been offering advice for the last 3 decades but the government chooses to ignore this.

In dealing with road safety, you need to have a complete set of statistics just to know where to start.

firstly is you need to deal with 3 categories of injury - fatal, serious ( incline-changing) and minor.

you need to know the number of collisions

Then then there are figures relating to deaths, such as per 100k vehicles. Millions of miles travelled, traffic density vehicle ownership and vehicle type The demographics of those injured and the causes and results crashes.

Countries that do this have reduced deaths behalf over 30 years and are no perusing zero death option.

Police forces in the EU have special collision investigtation units that treat any crash as a crime scene  and measure and calibrate in the finest detail to explain what happened -

the sort of thing looked for is entered into a crash report form - ever seen one in Thailand?

A crash report form is typically completed (traditionally a paper-based form, although recently computer-based systems have been used), allowing collection of quite detailed information on the crash. Key variables typically collected include:

 

·      crash location (including geographic coordinates);

·      time of day, day of week, month of year, year;

·      information on those who were involved (including road user type, age, gender, injury sustained);

·      details regarding the road (whether at an intersection, speed limit, curvature, traffic control, markings);

·      details on the environment (light conditions, weather, road surface wet or dry);

·      information regarding what happened in the crash (vehicle movement types, objects struck (including off-road), and contributory factors such as speed, alcohol use or driver distraction);

vehicle factors (type of vehicles involved).

 

there is no such thing in Thailand - this means that even the stats gather are little more than "good guesses".

Edited March 26, 2022 by Thunglom

[itsari]

Death is only one part of the problem .

Think about the cost of raising and educating these people that die on the Thai roads .

Then you realise the real cost of the casualties .

Many maimed , unable to help them selves . That is a further cost to society.

 

[SuwadeeS]

As a matter of fact:

Even with all the high tech in the shops available. Thailand is social political still in stone age. Can be easily proven by comparing the evolution of society and and how easy they get everything.

[Ralf001]

2 per hour at the scene.

 

How many more die later in hospital ?

[TropicalGuy]

3 minutes ago, SuwadeeS said:

They might made their Math, but never learn their lessons.

Anyway. The Thai statistics is properly wrong. 

I do strongly believe, the dark figure will double it.

The real number with traffic fatalities is around 30.000.

There come many point together. Why?

1. The traffic increased.

2, The traffic got more dense.

3, People get more aggresive.

4. Kids without proper driving skills get a motorbike. Even thought it is against the law, parents still buy motorbikes for kids as young as 10-12 years old.

5. Then the old people I do know many old Thai, who do not have a proper reaction time and even can not see properly, means their eyes are down 75-80 %. But guess what? They are stubborn and deniable.

6. I see every hour uncountable traffic law violations. Means nobody really cares. Even the police. E.g. I know a police box, which is always occupied. But they always look away. Within 5 minutes I saw almost a thousand traffic violations.

7. As a matter of fact, nobody really care.

 

So let them all die in accidents!!!!

 

Whoever goes into danger will perish in it.

Culture is All. They will be Reborn ! 
30k deaths too high. Intl Studies say 22-24 k with non- roadside deaths. Some excellent points re. m/bike usage.

Very High Car Prices here are also putting 95% young adult Thais onto affordable m/ bikes then into coffins.

[Thunglom]

4 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Culture here mitigates completely against scientific preventative road safety.  
 

Lack of low cost affordable cars,due to 100% Tax or High Price on all new vehicles , feeds through to used car market, so puts 95% untrained young Thais onto small motorbikes then 20k yearly into pine boxes. Govt. Tax Greed at its very worst 

No - culture is an excuse used by cynics who on't understand roadsafey. The pint of road safety is it doesn't depend on human nature it admits ALL humans are fallible.

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, Ralf001 said:

2 per hour at the scene.

 

How many more die later in hospital ?

Don't they all go down as covid deaths?

Edited March 26, 2022 by Will B Good