Electric Vehicles in Thailand

[Pib]

6 hours ago, Pib said:

Update: was not surprised...no phone call came. 

 

The Thai wife and I still discussing when to follow-up again with the dealership about a firm or firmer delivery date.  The wife is not pleased a phone call didn't come...a promised phone call that was suppose to come even if the dealership said no firm date yet but they are still trying to get a date. 

 

Yea, if you bump into a not-so-happy Thai woman today please beware as it could be my wife looking for a neck to squeeze tightly....yes, beware.  

 

 

Another update:  the dealership called this morning at 10:38am giving us an projected delivery date. 

 

But before I say the delivery date let me tell a little story.  While the wife and were  driving to the market we discussed whether we should call/visit our dealership ASAP and ask why they didn't call within 2 days as they promised which ended yesterday/Thursday.  We decided to call.  So, I pulled out my phone to dial the number which I had saved and once hitting the dial button I would hand the phone to the wife.  Well, "at the exact same instant" I pressed dial a window popped up for an incoming call and it was from the number I was calling....the dealership.  For a split second I thought I had pressed the wrong button or something and another split second later I realized the dealership was calling us and they had initiated the call probably a second before I pressed the button to dial them since there is always a second or so lag from pressing dial and it actually dialing.  I pressed answer at 10:38am, it was the dealership, and I passed the phone to the wife.   Just amazing they initiated the call to us while I was pressing dial to call them.   I'll remember that the rest of my life.

 

The call was good news.  The dealership said "Rever" who is the importer/distributor for BYD vehicles in Thailand and who all BYD dealerships get their BYDs from said our red Atto is projected to be delivered to the dealership next Friday/20 Oct....not a rock solid, 100%, for-sure date but the dealership said this is the kind of delivery date they get for all their vehicles...most of the time it's right on-target, but sometimes it may be a few days earlier or later.  Once actually delivered it will probably take another day or two to precheck the vehicle and install the window film.   So, it looks like about a week from now.

 

For those awaiting their BYD delivery and getting a BIG ballpark, rough estimated delivery date you might want to ask your dealership exactly what is the BYD distributor Rever estimating for a delivery date as that might show the dealership you know Rever is key as to when delivery will occur as Rever is the one that deals with the BYD factory in China and orders/receives the cars from China which are in turn distributed to the 60 or so BYD dealerships across Thailand.

 

https://www.reverautomotive.com/en/faq

 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Pib

[Bandersnatch]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

ask your dealership exactly what is the BYD distributor Rever estimating for a delivery date

Thanks for the tip.

 

I am a member of the MGEVForum https://www.mgevs.com/ and you regularly hear discussions about what boat your car is on and people track the boat from China to the UK.

 

 

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

3 hours ago, mistral53 said:

Have you been reading the user's manual while you are patiently waiting for your car to arrive?

Sad I know, but yes I have. I downloaded the PDF of the english language version of the European Seal, which is now sitting in my dropbox. 

 

The cars are quite complex so it is a good idea.

 

Unlike Atto 3 owners, there are not too many helpful guides to the seal on YouTube. Perhaps I’ll have to make one.

[JBChiangRai]

27 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Thanks for the tip.

 

I am a member of the MGEVForum https://www.mgevs.com/ and you regularly hear discussions about what boat your car is on and people track the boat from China to the UK.

 

 

 

 

I am a member too.

[Pib]

14 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

I am a member of the MGEVForum https://www.mgevs.com/ and you regularly hear discussions about what boat your car is on and people track the boat from China to the UK.

 

It's not only the boat getting from China to Thailand, but then the thousands of vehicles on that boat being offloaded and "cleared for release by Customs."   

 

Earlier this week this was a major issue expressed by my dealership's manager.   He said getting a vehicle cleared thru Thai Customs can take weeks as Customs was very paperwork picky, slow, and wanted to absolutely triple ensure any taxes/fees were paid before release.  Plus, he was none to complimentary towards the work efficiency of the govt Customs workers (i.e., they were slow).   

 

Of course I fully expect his story might have been a little one-sided by making BYD appear as an angel and govt Customs appearing as a devil.   But whether Thai Customs is really as slow as my dealership made them out to be I fully expect vehicles do take at least a few days to a week to clear Customs....and maybe sometimes much longer as the dealership was ranting about.   Then the distributor can take full procession where he might be moving them from port to a temporary storage locations (a BIG field/parking lot somewhere), and then redistributed out to dealerships.

 

Anyway, my red Atto is "almost" here. 

 

[Bandersnatch]

37 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I am a member too.

Found you ????

[BKKBike09]

For anyone who finds it strangely fascinating watching people take things apart - two interesting videos (only posting link to first here) of a EV-qualified engineer dismantling a battery from an Atto. Some of his posted comments are very useful eg this one about the battery's water resistance:

 

"There is a thick gasket all around the outside where the top plastic case bolts down onto the aluminium base and there are O rings around all the connections. The pack also had a couple screw vents on top that equalised pressure when I undid them so the pack is air tight"

 

 

 

[BKKBike09]

^ Actually it seems there are 4 videos covering taking apart through to integrating into home storage system.

[3NUMBAS]

prices in UK have tanked as too many are for sale

[Bandersnatch]

5 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

prices in UK have tanked as too many are for sale

You’re in the wrong discussion, this is EVs in Thailand.

 

 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, BKKBike09 said:

For anyone who finds it strangely fascinating watching people take things apart - two interesting videos (only posting link to first here) of a EV-qualified engineer dismantling a battery from an Atto. Some of his posted comments are very useful eg this one about the battery's water resistance:

 

"There is a thick gasket all around the outside where the top plastic case bolts down onto the aluminium base and there are O rings around all the connections. The pack also had a couple screw vents on top that equalised pressure when I undid them so the pack is air tight"

 

 

 

Looks like his latest video on this subject was Part 5 uploaded 9 days ago.   After watching all five I've decided my plans to take the traction battery out of my Atto one weekend, completely disassemble it to ensure it was put together correctly, and then put it back together should be delayed (forever).   

 

This attempted full disassembly also explains why almost all EV batteries are completely replaced when a certain problems develop versus being reparable at a local shop.  But who knows, Somchai's Shop may still get brave and give it a try and develop ingenious methods to do it....but I'm highly doubtful at this point. 

 

And since his last video (Part 5) was 9 days ago I sure hope while making Part 6 (not uploaded yet) the battery didn't blow-up and bring in the fire department and ambulance.  ????

[Pib]

On 10/11/2023 at 7:34 PM, Pib said:

Are any of you BEV owners using a OBD2 adapter to periodically check your vehicle's condition/any trouble codes, etc.?  Seems a lot of Youtube videos use OBD2 data during their videos but don't identify what adapter they are using or the few that do list a pricey adapter costing several thousands baht.

 

Since there are so, so many different OBD2 adaptors sold ranging from Bt50 (like the Elm 327 Mini sold on Lazada/Shopee) to thousands of baht AND since all OBD2 adapters are not created equal do any of you have recommendations for a low cost OBD2 adapter that works well on a BEV?   And maybe available on Lazada/Shopee?

After reviewing a bunch  Lazada reviews on various OBD2 adapters I found one review which said below OBD2 adapter worked to read most, but all the important OBD2 data on his Atto 3...which means it should work on the Dolphin and Seal also.  The reviewer also included photos to confirm.   And  he even loaded photos showing the assoicated OBD2 Android app installed and working on the Atto 3 infotainment system and also his Android phone.  And the adapter also works on Apple IOS.

 

Fortunately this particular OBD2 adapter is also dirt cheap....around Bt50 on Lazada and Shopee.  I ordered one this evening.   See below snapshot for more info.  

 

While the more expensive OBD2 adapters....starting at several hundred baht and going up to thousands of baht  (approaching Bt10K) for some brand name adapters if this adapter works well it will explain why this particular OBD2 adapter is sold by "many" Lazada/Shopee sellers and has been bought in the thousands....of course a very cheap price is probably the key driver followed by the fact it just works pretty good.   If you do a search on Lazada/Shopee the adapter below is going to appear many, many times in the search results.  Many, many in-Thailand sellers which means you get your order delivered in days vs having to wait for weeks if the seller is China based.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

11 hours ago, Pib said:

Fortunately this particular OBD2 adapter is also dirt cheap....around Bt50 on Lazada and Shopee.  I ordered one this evening

Thanks @Pib looking forward to your review before I shell out the big bucks.

 

[Bandersnatch]

My Thai Wife was hoping we would buy a BMW iX1 (still hasn’t arrived in Thailand) She didn’t feel that the spartan interior of Teslas really looked like luxury.

 

I wasn’t impressed with it’s 64 kWh Li-ion battery and it’s expected high price, but we did end up watching a number of videos of German EVs.

 

This guy does great reviews and he really knows his luxury cars.

 

 

[motdaeng]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

This guy does great reviews and he really knows his luxury cars.

 

 

thank you for sharing the video. there aren't many negative points to find for the byd seal!

 

i would like having one pedal drive and driver setting memories. perhaps this could be add

in the future through an over-the-air (OTA) update ... 

[Bandersnatch]

20 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

driver setting memories

https://www.reverautomotive.com/en/model/seal/overview

 

 

[motdaeng]

12 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

https://www.reverautomotive.com/en/model/seal/overview

 

 

the car has 2 driver seat memory settings, but as far as I know, it does not have driver mode setting memory,

e.g., for temperature, air conditioning, radio, drive mode, regen mode, steering weel settings etc..

[KhunLA]

BYD electric pickup truck patent leaked, revealing new EV expected by the end of 2023

news-blip

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

First the VS HEV , then the MG4 and now the ZS EV is discounted.

 

 

MG setting the trend, let’s hope others follow .

[Yellowtail]

On 10/15/2023 at 7:00 AM, KhunLA said:

BYD electric pickup truck patent leaked, revealing new EV expected by the end of 2023

news-blip

 

Looks like the Ranger

[Bandersnatch]

Buyers Remorse.

 

EVs are like any new technology, they change at a rapid pace. 20 years ago I was working in BKK and dating a girl who worked at Toshiba. She was able to get me staff discount on a new 42 inch TV. 2 years ago I bought an 86 inch TV and it's already out of date.

 

ICE vehicles on the other hand are a mature technology and any improvement year to year are tiny. I also don't think that anybody is considering investing in developing a completely new ICE engine which could be obsolete before it's ready for production.

 

In 2018 at the BKK motor show a ฿2,000,000 40 kWh Li-ion Nissan Leaf with CHAdeMO charging was the only EV I saw. I am glad I waited, but how long do you wait?

 

I have chosen to buy an 82.5 kWh LFP EV with V2L for ฿1,449,000. Will something better come along in the next couple of year? Definitely, but I am happy with the deal I have got and I will enjoy the car instead of fretting over my decision.  Life is too short for all that worry.

 

 

 

[Pib]

Whether and/or when to make the "ICE to BEV" big jump or go the "ICE to Hybrid then to BEV" with two small jumps can be tough choice to make for many people.  

 

For me, I decided against the interim step of buying a Hybrid because a Hybrid is a mixture of ICE and Electric which means you have two completely drive systems that must get along with each other...basically, you have more stuff (i.e., hardware, electronics, traction battery, etc.) that could break. Plus Hybrids come in so many different flavors of mild, full, plug-in, etc., which complicates the buying decision even more. Additionally, unless it's a Plug-in hybrid in most cases you really don't gain a big fuel mileage/efficiency increase over an ICE vehicle   Also, I keep vehicles so long (over 10 years...like my 15 year old Fortuner I bought new) if I bought a Hybrid now I wouldn't buy another vehicle for at least a decade....by then we might have flying fusion-powered vehicles and I would have completely missed the BEV epoch.   Yes, I know many Hybrids are being sold (so, so many vehicles with the Hybrid badge) as it's a way to transition from ICE to BEV for manufacturers and their customers.   Manufacturers who are late to the BEV game, specifically Toyota and Honda, will milk Hybrids as long as they can to buy time to roll-out BEV models.   

 

So, for me, while I'm keeping my 15 year old Fortuner which still runs & looks great in buying my next vehicle I decided for the aforementioned reasons to skip a Hybrid vehicle and go for a BEV...the Atto 3 which I will hopefully get in about one week.

 

[Melpomene]

5 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

Buyers Remorse.

 

EVs are like any new technology, they change at a rapid pace. 20 years ago I was working in BKK and dating a girl who worked at Toshiba. She was able to get me staff discount on a new 42 inch TV. 2 years ago I bought an 86 inch TV and it's already out of date.

 

ICE vehicles on the other hand are a mature technology and any improvement year to year are tiny. I also don't think that anybody is considering investing in developing a completely new ICE engine which could be obsolete before it's ready for production.

 

In 2018 at the BKK motor show a ฿2,000,000 40 kWh Li-ion Nissan Leaf with CHAdeMO charging was the only EV I saw. I am glad I waited, but how long do you wait?

 

I have chosen to buy an 82.5 kWh LFP EV with V2L for ฿1,449,000. Will something better come along in the next couple of year? Definitely, but I am happy with the deal I have got and I will enjoy the car instead of fretting over my decision.  Life is too short for all that worry.

 

 

 

This is a very good point, and it's probably the one doubt about EVs I still have.  When is the right time to jump in?  

 

EVs are in essence "a computer on wheels", and we all know how fast tech changes and not only that, with each year that passes, the rate of change itself gets even quicker.

 

Ultimately, I think EVs may not just end up changing the way we drive, but also the way we buy cars.  Perhaps we'll see more leasing/subscription type models that cater for constantly improving technology and will build on recycling capabilities for older models.  This isn't really an option in Thailand right now, but if I was back in the UK I'd certainly be looking at leasing rather than buying my next car.

[Pib]

24 minutes ago, Melpomene said:

This is a very good point, and it's probably the one doubt about EVs I still have.  When is the right time to jump in?  

 

EVs are in essence "a computer on wheels", and we all know how fast tech changes and not only that, with each year that passes, the rate of change itself gets even quicker.

 

Actually, unless a vehicle was built "many" years ago, ICE vehicles have been a "computer on wheels" for many years.  And when I say computer I mean "Electronic Control Units" (ECU) which comes in many varieties to control/monitor many different systems on the vehicle.  Typically a vehicle will have a 40 to 150 ECUs spread around the vehicle especially an ICE vehicle which has all type of ECUs/sensors to monitor the combustion process.   

 

On a BEV there is no combustion process....many of the ECUs (computers) required on an ICEV and not required on a BEV.   Now sure the traction battery for a BEV has a sophisticated traction Battery Management System (BMS) ECUs not found on ICEV but the rest of the BEV is less ECU intensive than a ICEV with all its combustion monitoring/control ECUs.

 

Now the "Infotainment" display on a BEV does offer quite a few options to change certain driving characteristics of the vehicle like power response, steering feel, regenerative braking, etc., but I expect most people decide on a certain settings after driving the BEV for a few months and then rarely ever change those particular settings again.  And most of the remaining settings in the "Infotainment" are more comfort, map, sound, lighting, etc., type settings/controls....kinda like the settings on a typical smart phone.

 

So, assuming you know how to use a smartphone you are already qualified to use the "Infotainment Computer Thingie" in a BEV after reading the BEV Operating Manual.  Now out and pick a BEV to buy if you are in the market for a new car!!!! ????

 

 

ECUs on a vehicle snapshots

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, Melpomene said:

This is a very good point, and it's probably the one doubt about EVs I still have.  When is the right time to jump in?

Thanks.
 

My criteria was LFP chemistry, being able to drive to BKK on one charge (which is more than I would ever want to do) V2L and a  reasonable price.

There is talk that the ฿150,000 EV grant will end this year but This Is Thailand (TIT)

I test drove the BYD Seal Premium and instantly fell in love with it, then it was no longer a rational decision 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Bandersnatch

[mistral53]

I have a BEV and  PHEV - but I have made these purchasing decisions without being a fanatic, which seems to be the most common position in either camp. I firmly believe the BEV will not be the dominant vehicle ever, I firmly believe that BEV's have ascended artificially due to idiotic political manipulations. The reality of different transportation needs will keep the ICE a viable propulsion system in many parts of the world and for many applications.

 

The biggest driver for me to embrace electrical propulsion is simply rooted in the fact that I fuel my vehicles from my own solar array - my energy is free. If I would live in a condo, I would absolutely NOT own an EV!

 

There are already seismic shifts taking place that to me seem to be the harbingers of this reality - one of which is the rapid build up of BEV inventory in the US, another one is the affordability of insurance (or lack thereof). It remains to be seen how battery degradation will impact long term ownership - or more broadly, how resale values will fare in the long-term compared to ICE vehicles.

 

A lifetime ago, I owned a VW Phateton W12 - it was a colossal monster weighting almost 2.5 tons. My BYD Seal dual motor is almost the same weight, albeit is much smaller - is that really progress in 20 years?

 

Of course, there is also this...........lol

[Pib]

The BMW X5 ICE motor was also used as a starter for the Starship Enterprise warp engines.....Scotty spent more maintenance time on the  BMW engine than the warp engines. 

[JBChiangRai]

14 hours ago, mistral53 said:

A lifetime ago, I owned a VW Phateton W12 - it was a colossal monster weighting almost 2.5 tons. My BYD Seal dual motor is almost the same weight, albeit is much smaller - is that really progress in 20 years?

 

I wondered who the buyer was.

[KhunLA]

14 hours ago, mistral53 said:

my energy is free. If I would live in a condo, I would absolutely NOT own an EV!  .... the affordability of insurance (or lack thereof). It remains to be seen how battery degradation will impact long term ownership - or more broadly, how resale values will fare in the long-term compared to ICE vehicles.

Tough decision for me.  Hindsight, since owning, love the performance, and no requirement for weekly petrol top ups.  That said, the MG CS is not out of the way, and couple kms away from house, on the way to weekly rounds.  Not even a special trip needed.

 

Prior to owning, then NO, wouldn't consider an EV, since as ignorant as most about the performance, and smooth ride on the highway.

 

Our local driving (mandatory), and we would only need to top up, once ever 2 weeks, if that.  We only rack up the kms, because the energy is 'free', and explore locally.  I drive 30-45 minutes away, just for pancakes & curry/roti, as best version served there.  Something I wouldn't do with an ICEV.  Anything to get out of the house.

 

Killing <1 hr on the internet, while sipping coffee and pastry is something I do every week.  Topping up @ MG, that wouldn't be an inconvenience at all.   Only as a 'delay' when going O&A, to top up, if wanting to start at 100%.

 

Insurance wise, so far, basically same price as ICEV, as just renewed, and was ฿11.4k w/฿1400 rebate (?), so ฿10k, so value for value, same or cheaper than our ICEV insurance.

 

Depreciation, assuming they used the MSRP without govt incentive, as ฿960, more than purchase price, then that's a bit $ drop, as was new 'totaled' value, off the lot, with now value of ฿860, still higher than new price, due to MG ZS's price drop.   Actually best thing that could happen is car get totaled, and we get a new one, at no cost to us 😂  Already have the charger installed, so wouldn't need that.

 

That is big drop in % of MSRP though. ฿1.189,000 to ฿860k (~28%) after 1 year or ownership.  Not that we would ever consider selling.

 

So depreciation, both MG in general & being an EV is something to consider, if you tend to buy new cars ever 2 or 3 years.

Edited October 18, 2023 by KhunLA

[Bandersnatch]

BYD Seal is launched in Australia cheaper than the Atto 3

 

Although Aus based this video is an interesting discussion of the BYD Seal v Tesla Model 3 debate.