Electric Vehicles in Thailand

[Melpomene]

13 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

On electric meters when you see a number like 5 (15), 5 (100), 15 (35), 30 (100), etc.,  the number within parenthesis  represents the maximum amperage that meter can handle/accurately measure and an electric company will match the service going to your residence with the proper sized meter. 

 

The first number which is not in parenthesis is called the basic/calibration amperage which will be in the general ballpark of what a typical residence might normally pull amperage-wise which would typically be one-third or less of the max amps.  And for calibration checks a key calibration point is approx one-third of full range. 

 

The two numbers printed on an electric meter can vary greater depending on design, quality, specs required by the electric company, etc.

 

Like a residence with a single phase 100A service here in Thailand would usually have a 30 (100) meter installed but it could very well be a 5 (100) meter...all depends on the electric company.  A 5 (100) meter will be a higher quality/more sensitive meter than a 30 (100) meter....both are rated for 100A service  And although they would probably be pulling less than 10A without any high current devices running (like air cons) when they do turn on one or two larger air cons they could approach around 20-25A....or maybe turn on an electric water heater or clothes drier then the current is going to probably be up around 35A which is about one third of the 100A max service.

 

 

 

 

Thanks Pib, that's very helpful.  It's a fairly new property, so perhaps for newer builds these more sensitive meters are becoming more standard.

 

Either way, good to know the max amperage should be suitable for a charger as I'd rather not have to deal with PEA to get a second meter.

[Andrew Dwyer]

More of the Motor Expo reservations 

 

 

Is it Changan or is it Deepal ??

[macahoom]

17 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

 

Is it Changan or is it Deepal ??

 

Changan is a car manufacturing company. They make several marques, one of which is Deepal.

[mistral53]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

 

On electric meters when you see a number like 5 (15), 5 (100), 15 (35), 30 (100), etc.,  the number within parenthesis  represents the maximum amperage that meter can handle/accurately measure and an electric company will match the service going to your residence with the proper sized meter. 

 

The first number which is not in parenthesis is called the basic/calibration amperage which will be in the general ballpark of what a typical residence might normally pull amperage-wise which would typically be one-third or less of the max amps.  And for calibration checks a key calibration point is approx one-third of full range. 

 

The two numbers printed on an electric meter can vary greater depending on design, quality, specs required by the electric company, etc.

 

Like a residence with a single phase 100A service here in Thailand would usually have a 30 (100) meter installed but it could very well be a 5 (100) meter...all depends on the electric company.  A 5 (100) meter will be a higher quality/more sensitive meter than a 30 (100) meter....both are rated for 100A service  And although they would probably be pulling less than 10A without any high current devices running (like air cons) when they do turn on one or two larger air cons they could approach around 20-25A....or maybe turn on an electric water heater or clothes drier then the current is going to probably be up around 35A which is about one third of the 100A max service.

 

 

 

Good info, I did not know that.

 

Where in this rating soup is the 3Ph vs. 1 Ph capacity? I would assume the 3 phases help for load distribution more for PEA than in the house?

[Andrew Dwyer]

46 minutes ago, macahoom said:

 

Changan is a car manufacturing company. They make several marques, one of which is Deepal.

I did know that, I was referring to the fact that on the photo from the previous day they had used the Changan name and logo and today …….

 

British sarcasm, you either love it or hate it !!

[macahoom]

34 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

I did know that, I was referring to the fact that on the photo from the previous day they had used the Changan name and logo and today …….

 

British sarcasm, you either love it or hate it !!

Sorry, I didn't even look at the photos. I thought you were asking a simple question. I now understand what you were on about.

[Pib]

32 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

Good info, I did not know that.

 

Where in this rating soup is the 3Ph vs. 1 Ph capacity? I would assume the 3 phases help for load distribution more for PEA than in the house?

 

A "three" phase 100A service has three times the capacity of a "one/single" phase service.   In a three phase system you basically have three single phase live wires coming into your residence along with one neutral wire.   Since each of these three phases are 120 degrees out of sync with each other which results in a cancellation of current effect on the "neutral" line that means the one each neutral line is all that needed to support all three live lines. 

 

Now of course the main circuit box and the wires going to all the various outlets in your residence needs to be fairly evenly split among the three live wires/phases.  If you have any three phase devices like a three phase motor, three phase charger, etc., well, all three live wires and the neutral hook-up to that device.

 

A three phase meter will usually just show "3 times" 100A, 3 times 45A, etc., like below 3 phase 100A meter.   

 

And if you happen to have 3 phase service to your residence and decide you want to get a 11KW or 22KW wall charger to charge your EV faster than with a single phase 7KW wall charger, well, DO NOT waste your time unless your EV onboard rectifier is a 3 phase rectifier.  Whether a manufacturer puts a single or three phase onboard rectifier in your EV depends on the country it's being sold in/manufactured for.  Some countries are primarily 3 phase service and some primarily single phase service.   Unless your EV has 3 phase charging capability (i.e., just has single phase charging capability) if you hook a 3 phase 11KW charger to the EV the EV will only charge at around 3.6KW...and if you hook a 3 phase 22KW charger to the EV the EV will only charge at around 6.3KW (no more than if using a single phase 7KW charger). 

 

[Alotoftravel]

23 hours ago, Pib said:

 

Just FYI.  My curiosity satisfied...and I know when I drop below 10% charge what's going to happen in that I still have around 50 to 55Km left to find a charger.  Cheers

 

This is very useful . Since I do not have a wall charger at home . For me I will just do my normal outside dc charging

-  dc charge from Soc <10% to 80 % and then let it continue to complete  100% . Since I get charge by kWh for time spent for the last 20 % is no issue . Is it beneficial to switch from dc to ac charge for the last 20% charge ? 
 

I always thought that estimation range in nedc was higher than wltp. It was great to see you achieve above nedc km as your trip a meter showed over 500 km. I thought using dynamic ( better than nedc and wltp)  would even be less range than 490 advertised range but you showed otherwise .this has been very informative . Thanks 

 

 

[Pib]

36 minutes ago, Alotoftravel said:

 

This is very useful . Since I do not have a wall charger at home . For me I will just do my normal outside dc charging

-  dc charge from Soc <10% to 80 % and then let it continue to complete  100% . Since I get charge by kWh for time spent for the last 20 % is no issue . Is it beneficial to switch from dc to ac charge for the last 20% charge ? 
 

I always thought that estimation range in nedc was higher than wltp. It was great to see you achieve above nedc km as your trip a meter showed over 500 km. I thought using dynamic ( better than nedc and wltp)  would even be less range than 490 advertised range but you showed otherwise .this has been very informative . Thanks 

 

 

 

I can't say if it's really more beneficial to switch to AC charging after 80% vs using DC Fast Charge all the way to 100%.  A fast charge rate is supposedly less friendly than a slow charge rate for the "long term life" (i.e., years) of a battery.   Now how much constant fast charging may actually decrease the life of a battery is something various reports/studies have not been consistent on....some reports/studies have shown significant impact and other reports/studies little to no impact.  But most of these reports/studies have been done on lithium "NCA" type batteries where it's generally recommended not charging to 100% frequently (just to 80%) vs the lithium LFP type batteries (like in BYD EVs and some others) where charging to 100% frequently is fine...even recommended by the manufacturer.  

 

Take another look at my earlier post (partially quoted below)  as I noted the following early in that post.  Additionally, the great bulk of kilometers on this particular trip was highway speed driving at around 90-100KMH with 4 "healthy (fat)" adults in the car.   I probably got around 450Km on this particular trip.

Quote

Note:  Ignore the Trip Meter kilometer readings as they do "not" represent the actually range I got on the trip since I had did an interim charge of 15% or so and forgot to reset the trip meter to zero.  

 

However, but, I am getting the advertised NEDC range of 480Km (420Km WLTP) since I've had the car for the last 7 weeks/2,553Km.  See below snapshot from my EV showing 12.4KHW used per 100Km as of this morning. With my Atto extended range battery of 60KWH below calculates out to a real world range of 484Km range in my particular case....everyone's case will vary depending on the style/type of driving.   All of my driving so far has been in ECO mode, light-footed, highway and around town driving with A/C always on.   I've kept it in ECO mode since having the car and thru the recommend break-in period of the first 2,000Km....starting this week I may go wild-and-crazy by switching to Normal, or even Sport, mode.  

 

 

 

[Pib]

And just some additional crossfeed on the range estimation when the range estimation is set to Standard or Dynamic.  I charged my Atto  60KWH battery to 100% last night after my Sunday runabout driving and this morning it reflects a 480Km range in Standard (i.e., the advertised NEDC range and probably hard-coded into the EV's computer for 100% charge....I've never seen it reflect anything else at 100% charge--always 480Km) and 497km in Dynamic (sometimes 493, 495, even a 503Km once)...but today it's  showing 497Km...a 17Km difference.  

 

Now as I drive/deplete my charge this 17Km difference range estimation between Standard and Dynamic will become less and less.... and as you approach zero charge it will get down to at least only a 1Km difference like pictured in my post from the other day when I depleted the battery down to 2%.  I expect if I had went to 1% charge there would have been zero difference between the Standard and Dynamic range estimation.    

 

Now, the Dynamic range estimation I've been talking has been based on "my" driving....it will probably be different for other folks as everyone drives differently, drives in different locations, etc.  

 

But if a person was going to rely on estimated range remaining because they wanted to drive the EV to almost no charge remaining before recharging, well, whether you use the Standard or Dynamic range estimation setting I expect both are going to be pretty close to each other when getting below 10% charge left and to play it safe a person should go with whichever range estimation gives the fewest remaining kilometers.  However, for me I will only let the charge drop to 10% or below if I had no other choice OR I'm doing the once every 3 to 6 months recommendation by BYD. 

 

[Alotoftravel]

29 minutes ago, Pib said:

for me I will only let the charge drop to 10% or below if I had no other choice OR I'm doing the once every 3 to 6 months recommendation by BYD.

i am in the same camp.

I will  do my normal dc charge from 20-80 for time savings

and will not let it go below 10 % soc.

 

Thanks 

[KhunLA]

54 minutes ago, Pib said:

And just some additional crossfeed on the range estimation when the range estimation is set to Standard or Dynamic.  I charged my Atto  60KWH battery to 100% last night after my Sunday runabout driving and this morning it reflects a 480Km range in Standard (i.e., the advertised NEDC range and probably hard-coded into the EV's computer for 100% charge....I've never seen it reflect anything else at 100% charge--always 480Km) and 497km in Dynamic (sometimes 493, 495, even a 503Km once)...but today it's  showing 497Km...a 17Km difference.  

 

Now as I drive/deplete my charge this 17Km difference range estimation between Standard and Dynamic will become less and less.... and as you approach zero charge it will get down to at least only a 1Km difference like pictured in my post from the other day when I depleted the battery down to 2%.  I expect if I had went to 1% charge there would have been zero difference between the Standard and Dynamic range estimation.    

 

Now, the Dynamic range estimation I've been talking has been based on "my" driving....it will probably be different for other folks as everyone drives differently, drives in different locations, etc.  

 

But if a person was going to rely on estimated range remaining because they wanted to drive the EV to almost no charge remaining before recharging, well, whether you use the Standard or Dynamic range estimation setting I expect both are going to be pretty close to each other when getting below 10% charge left and to play it safe a person should go with whichever range estimation gives the fewest remaining kilometers.  However, for me I will only let the charge drop to 10% or below if I had no other choice OR I'm doing the once every 3 to 6 months recommendation by BYD. 

Those interested, the MGs 50kWk (46.3 usable) range for knocking around town, and 'ECO' mode is very accurate.  360 kms or more around town.   300-320 on highway @ 90 kph.

 

We drive 30 - 60 - 90kph around town, since near hwy #4, though not on 4 much.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Those interested, the MGs 50kWk (46.3 usable) range for knocking around town, and 'ECO' mode is very accurate.  360 kms or more around town.   300-320 on highway @ 90 kph.

 

We drive 30 - 60 - 90kph around town, since near hwy #4, though not on 4 much.

The MG power used/kilometers driven display is definitely more detailed than the BYD Atto display (expect the Seal and Dolphin display is basically same-same the Atto).

 

Question: in lower left hand corner of your display were it displays Sport, Normal, Eco Km does that represent "projected" (guessomter) from a current 100% charge OR does it represent kilometers since owning the car?    That is, current day projected or purely historical.

[Andrew Dwyer]

7 days of the Motor Expo 

 

 

and the top three are constant, but not necessarily in the same order !

[KhunLA]

8 hours ago, Pib said:

The MG power used/kilometers driven display is definitely more detailed than the BYD Atto display (expect the Seal and Dolphin display is basically same-same the Atto).

 

Question: in lower left hand corner of your display were it displays Sport, Normal, Eco Km does that represent "projected" (guessomter) from a current 100% charge OR does it represent kilometers since owning the car?    That is, current day projected or purely historical.

Estimated in that mode, per charge.   And the display does NOT have all 3 modes/range listed.  I added 2, as it will only display the one you are in.  Then that will count down what is remaining.

 

Last # 11.7 (right hand side) is kWh per 100 kms, so my daily morning run to park w/dog & surfside cruise, would be in the 395 kms per full charge (46.3 usable kWh ÷ 11.7kWh X 100 = 395 kms per full charge)

[josephbloggs]

The Tesla Cybertruck has been spotted in Thailand already!

 

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

So, the Nov registrations for Thailand are in, Seal at last making a showing, it will be possibly Dec but probably Jan 2024 before Seal shows its impact on the market, the waiting list tells us it will be significant.

 

( apologies as only BYD broken down into models as yet )

 

 

 

 

Surprisingly large ratio of Premium to Performance models so far, I was expecting it to be level.

[Melpomene]

1 hour ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

So, the Nov registrations for Thailand are in, Seal at last making a showing, it will be possibly Dec but probably Jan 2024 before Seal shows its impact on the market, the waiting list tells us it will be significant.

 

( apologies as only BYD broken down into models as yet )

 

 

 

 

Surprisingly large ratio of Premium to Performance models so far, I was expecting it to be level.

 

About 80% of those 5 AWDs are probably accounted for by this chat :D

[mistral53]

2 hours ago, Melpomene said:

 

About 80% of those 5 AWDs are probably accounted for by this chat :D

Are they counted as registered after the white plate is issued? I am still on the red..........already over 2 months now

[Andrew Dwyer]

The full breakdown of Thai EV registrations for November and from Jan - Nov.

 

 

 

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

On 12/7/2023 at 8:18 PM, mistral53 said:

Are they counted as registered after the white plate is issued? I am still on the red..........already over 2 months now

I think it’s when the white plate is issued.

 

I ran on Red plate for 9 months because I wanted the car registered the following year.

[vinny41]

3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I think it’s when the white plate is issued.

 

I ran on Red plate for 9 months because I wanted the car registered the following year.

In addition, the meeting agreed that the Excise Department would extend the registration period for electric vehicles that are eligible under the EV 3.0 measures from the original deadline of 31 Dec. 2023 to 31 Jan. 2024. But it must still be sold by December 31, 2023 in order for consumers to decide to purchase electric vehicles at the Thailand International Motor Expo, which will be held in December 2023.

https://www.thairath.co.th/money/investment/stocks/2737475

The current subsidy is based on all vehicles sold and white plated by 31st January 2024 if vehicles aren't registered by that date the subsidy is reduced and you may find that your dealer will contact you to pay the extra amount between EV 3,0 subsidy and EV3.5 subsidy

[sirineou]

Got up this morning , made my coffee and settled down to scan the news headlines on Google News as I do every morning.

Noo, sadly trump is still alive!! I will check again tomorrow .

But as a consolation price I came across this article on MG EV's  that I thought you would all find interesting.

Quote

MG Updating ICE And EV Model Families Next Year, Including MG 4 Facelift

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/12/mg-updating-ice-and-ev-model-families-next-year-including-mg-4-facelift/

 

" During a recent interview with Autocar, MG’s business unit general manager Lu Jiajun revealed that in the first half of the year, the company will update its ICE models while its EVs will receive updates in the second half of the year. Among MG’s most important new ICE vehicles launched next year will include successors to both the 3 supermini and the ZS. The same report adds that MG is readying facelifts for both the MG5 estate and the MG7 sedans."

[GroveHillWanderer]

It seems that the number of EV charging stations is multiplying rapidly these days.

 

Not that I check very often, but I just noticed on Google Maps that there are a whole bunch of new ones in Hua Hin, including new names (to me at least) like Sharge, Virta and HAUP. 

 

There are also two new "Porsche Destination Charging Stations" and apparently a new Altervim* charger at (or planned for) Market Village.

 

This brings the total in Hua Hin (at a rough count) to about 20 by including Google Maps and PlugShare lists, which I reckon is as many, if not more than, the number of petrol/diesel service stations in town.

 

*Altervim and Lotus have formed a partnership that will see 400 new charging stations installed at Lotus supermarkets throughout the country by next year, with 100 already operating.

[mistral53]

11 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

It seems that the number of EV charging stations is multiplying rapidly these days.

 

Not that I check very often, but I just noticed on Google Maps that there are a whole bunch of new ones in Hua Hin, including new names (to me at least) like Sharge, Virta and HAUP. 

 

There are also two new "Porsche Destination Charging Stations" and apparently a new Altervim* charger at (or planned for) Market Village.

 

This brings the total in Hua Hin (at a rough count) to about 20 by including Google Maps and PlugShare lists, which I reckon is as many, if not more than, the number of petrol/diesel service stations in town.

 

*Altervim and Lotus have formed a partnership that will see 400 new charging stations installed at Lotus supermarkets throughout the country by next year, with 100 already operating.

How many of these are active and of the DC genre?

 

There are several places listed on different apps, but the chargers are actually inoperative, others have only AC chargers, which are next to useless except for hotel guests that stay over night and leave their cars hooked up. All in all, H-H is still stone age when it comes to real DC charger infrastructure, but it could change quickly.

[Pib]

 Motor Expo tally/bookings thru 9 Dec.  The Expo has two more days of bookings to tally-up....today/10 Dec and tomorrow/11 Dec.   Appears Toyota with its myriad of ICE models will come out on top and I'm thinking Honda with its myriad of ICE models may take over 2nd place in the final two days...time will tell.  BYD with its BEV's (Dolphin,  Atto, and Seal) will surely take 2nd or 3rd place....as of now they are in 2nd place.    And look how well the other Chinese manufacturers are doing.  

 

 

https://www.motorexpo.co.th/exhibitors/profile/2355

[Pib]

 

Motor Expo tally/bookings "thru 10 Dec."  The Expo only has one more day of bookings to tally-up which is today/11 Dec as the Expo ends tonight at 10pm. 

 

Appears Toyota with its myriad of ICE models will definitely come out on top and I'm still thinking Honda with its myriad of ICE models may take over 2nd place from BYD in the final day...time will tell.  

 

 

Tally Thru 10 Dec (Final Expo Day 11 Dec)

 

[BenStark]

On 12/8/2023 at 8:30 PM, JBChiangRai said:

I think it’s when the white plate is issued.

 

I ran on Red plate for 9 months because I wanted the car registered the following year.

Why you didn't run it on red plates till 2025, then sell it as new?

 

And then those foreigners dare to say that the second hand car tents are cheating

[vinny41]

14 minutes ago, BenStark said:

Why you didn't run it on red plates till 2025, then sell it as new?

 

And then those foreigners dare to say that the second hand car tents are cheating

Doesn't make any difference any buyer private or tent will look at the registration document at look at the build date the date determines the price

Some Brands do a minor change mid year so you can have

2023 build date 2023 model year

2023 build date 2024 model year

Now if you use a online insurance quote and check the capital insured amount for the same vehicle you will find the higher capital insured amount for the newer vehicle

example 2024 model build date December 2023 will have a lower capital insured amount with the same insurance company as a 2024 model build date January 2024

I think anyone trying to sell a 2024 Chevrolet in Thailand will have a hard job convincing people that its a 2024 model

[BenStark]

10 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Doesn't make any difference any buyer private or tent will look at the registration document at look at the build date the date determines the price

 

 

I don't know about that, because in my blue book I only see a registration date, not a build date.

 

And why would anyone want to register their car 9 months after they took ownership, if they didn't plan to profit from it?