Electric Vehicles in Thailand

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

WLTP seems more realistic, quite a few Atto owners posted on FB they changed from NEDC to WLTP at their respective showrooms for a small fee of course !

 

Never heard of EPA but appears to be for the owners of lead boots !!

 

Dynamic works for me, obviously there are differences in range between fast highway driving and stop start city driving but with around 75% city and 25% highway i am not far away from WLTP

 

Would EPA not be for the US? 

[Pib]

42 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So, if you charge at home (without solar) you're at about 0.66 to 0.78 per km and if you have to use a charge station, you would be at 0.93-1.11 per km for fuel. Sound about right? 

 

 

Yea....sounds right per Km based on typical electric fuel efficiency of different EVs. 

 

Thailand residential "standard" rates (I.e., non-TOU) are approx Bt5/KWH total....DC Fast Charger rates are approx Bt7.5KWH (or higher) during Peak Hours or approx 50% higher than the residential standard rates. 

 

Of course how costs would work per Km would vary from EV to EV, whether or not a person has TOU setup, when he charges, driving environment, etc.  Your estimate per Km sounds right to me. 

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yea....sounds right per Km based on typical electric fuel efficiency of different EVs. 

 

Thailand residential "standard" rates (I.e., non-TOU) are approx Bt5/KWH total....DC Fast Charger rates are approx Bt7.5KWH (or higher) during Peak Hours or approx 50% higher than the residential standard rates. 

 

Of course how costs would work per Km would vary from EV to EV, whether or not a person has TOU setup, when he charges, driving environment, etc.  Your estimate per Km sounds right to me. 

I used 5 for home and 7.5 for stations and a 10% loss. 

[Andrew Dwyer]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Would EPA not be for the US? 

Yes, apparently it’s the Environmental Protection Agency 

and probably refers to miles not kilometres, which would explain the vast difference between the other 3 range “ standards “.

 

 

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/who-is-the-epa-and-what-is-epa-rating#:~:text=The EPA%2C or Environmental Protection,go on a full charge.

Edited February 28 by Andrew Dwyer

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

WLTP seems more realistic, quite a few Atto owners posted on FB they changed from NEDC to WLTP at their respective showrooms for a small fee of course !

 

Never heard of EPA but appears to be for the owners of lead boots !!

 

Dynamic works for me, obviously there are differences in range between fast highway driving and stop start city driving but with around 75% city and 25% highway i am not far away from WLTP

 

 

EPA range fuel efficiency applies to vehicles sold in the U.S...it's a tougher range test standard compared to WLTP, CLTP, NEHC, etc., whether testing an EV or ICEV.  

 

Getting a Thailand BYD dealership to change the vehicles software to readout in WLTP vs NEDC I'm sure would be an  easy firmware/software update especially since BYD sells vehicles in many countries that use the WLTP standard.   

 

But I'm surprised they would do it since BYD vehicles sold in Thailand receive Thai govt approval for import based on NEDC standards.   See below FAQ snapshot from Rever Automotive website who is the official importer/distributor of BYD vehicles into Thailand (they are basically Headquarters BYD in Thailand).   The FAQ says "no-can-do" a NEDC to WLTP change for BYD vehicles sold in Thailand...but actually they could if they wanted to...it's more like a "no-will-do."  But hey, This Is Thailand and money can change black to white, white to black, and maybe NEDC to WLTP.

 

Additionally, I would think BYD Thailand would be very reluctant to change the displayed range from NEDC to WLTP as it may make the "next" owner of that BYD vehicle wonder why he can never get the "advertised" max range reading after charting to 100%....make him think the car has a problem....maybe start bad-mouthing the BYD car on social media, etc.   Now, if/when BYD starts using the WLTP standard on the paperwork it submits to the Thai govt to get import/sale approval then I could see BYD willing to do a firmware update to have the display show WLTP vs NEDC. 

 

Heck, maybe someday an OTA will arrive that will allow a person to change an infotainment system setting to display in NEDC or WLTP.  Kinda like how you can currently change in the Atto from Standard to Dynamic range mode, Standard to High regen braking, ECO-Normal-Sport power mode, etc.  Seems this would still allow BYD to comply with the govt paperwork it got approved and also satisfy those vehicle owners that want to use a WLTP range estimation....but I expect there are probably legal landmines and additional costs that might not make that appealing to BYD.

 

https://www.reverautomotive.com/en/faq

[Bandersnatch]

The BYD Seal was one of the finalists of the car of the year award held at the Geneva Motor Show. 

 

I am sure the many Seal owners in this forum believed that the Seal deserved to win.

 

The winner has just been announced…

 

It’s a Renault mini van 🤔

[vinny41]

The Renault Scenic E-Tech has achieved first place thanks to 329 votes obtained. For 22 Jurors, this SUV has been chosen as the best of the seven finalists.

The BMW 5-Series, second, has been close to Renault Scenic, with a total of 308 votes and 19 best votes, followed by the new Peugeot 3008, third, with 197 and 3 best votes. The rest of the finalist for the award were Kia EV9 (190 points), Volvo EX30 (168), BYD Seal (131) and Toyota C-HR (127).

https://www.caroftheyear.org/index.php

Looks similar to any of the other Compact crossover SUV on the market

[Andrew Dwyer]

Those waiting for the 2024 Atto 3 extended version will have to wait for a while . Right hand version released in Hong Kong today, due in Thailand second half of 2024.

 

 

BYD ATTO 3 MY2024 Cosmos Black Changesas follows

• Extended Range 480 Performance models are expected to follow in H2 2024.
• Change tires to Continental brand.
• Changed the exterior material around the C-Pillar from silver to black.
• Change the C-Pillar ear mirror to clear glass.
• Change the trunk logo from Build Your Dreams to BYD
• Changed the center Rotating Display from 12.8 inches to 15.6 inches.
• Add Karaoke application to sing karaoke on the car.
• Added Daytime Running Light off function when starting P gearing
• Added Cosmos Black exterior body color.
• Added new interior color, Dark Blue, blue with black trim.
   
•  

https://autolifethailand.tv/byd-atto-3-my2024-cosmos-black-dark-blue-hong-kong/

Edited February 29 by Andrew Dwyer

[KhunLA]

7 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

The BYD Seal was one of the finalists of the car of the year award held at the Geneva Motor Show. 

 

I am sure the many Seal owners in this forum believed that the Seal deserved to win.

 

The winner has just been announced…

 

It’s a Renault mini van 🤔

The MG MAXUS 9 (van) is pretty awesome and very plush inside, with nice specs.   Actually  negative for me, as my purpose for a van would be to convert to a RV.   So wasted money to buy plush, to then take out.

 

So no Renault dealers in Th 

 

MG MAXUS 9 Specs (drivetrain):

Edited February 29 by KhunLA

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 2/24/2024 at 8:12 PM, Pib said:

My BYD Atto 3 has a NEDC range rating of 480Km and a WLTP rating of 420Km.

Pib,

What kind of range do you think your Atto 3 will have if you hit the highway to Hua Hin an early morning and kept the speed at a constant 120 km/h?

Looks like the comfort zone for EVs are urban city speed of 20-60 km/h.

The Fortuner will of course be right at home at 120 km/h.

[Pib]

10 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Pib,

What kind of range do you think your Atto 3 will have if you hit the highway to Hua Hin an early morning and kept the speed at a constant 120 km/h?

Looks like the comfort zone for EVs are urban city speed of 20-60 km/h.

The Fortuner will of course be right at home at 120 km/h.

 

Don't really know...somewhere south of 400km I'm sure.

 

Couldn't maintain 120kmh from Bangkok to HuaHin due to road conditions, speed limits, etc., at any time during the day or night.   Plus I wouldn't enjoy the speeding tickets via mail about a month later.

 

The Atto cruises at 120km smoother and quieter than the Fortuner.

 

The chart is skimpy on background info...got a web link that provide such?

[KhunLA]

47 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Pib,

What kind of range do you think your Atto 3 will have if you hit the highway to Hua Hin an early morning and kept the speed at a constant 120 km/h?

Looks like the comfort zone for EVs are urban city speed of 20-60 km/h.

The Fortuner will of course be right at home at 120 km/h.

silly post, again, as pointed out, congestion, construction & speed limits wouldn't allow 120 kph, along with traffic signals & intersection.

 

I do wonder sometimes if you've ever been to TH.

 

I can tell you I drive from PKK, 100 kms south of HH, to Bangkok with no problems, with our 50kWh (46.3 usable) battery pack.   I do stop & top up, unnecessarily before getting to my destination, as prefer to not need to top up again, until out of the metro area, whether further beyond, or returning home.

 

Also makes it easier to calculate, if returning home, to arrive @ 20%, and recharge at home with solar.  Which has worked consistently of late.

 

So the first 250-275 kms to BKK is on solar, and the last top up, back to 100% is also done with solar.   So 500-550 of those kms are on solar, for additional savings.

[Klonko]

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Pib,

What kind of range do you think your Atto 3 will have if you hit the highway to Hua Hin an early morning and kept the speed at a constant 120 km/h?

Looks like the comfort zone for EVs are urban city speed of 20-60 km/h.

The Fortuner will of course be right at home at 120 km/h.

 

For comparison

Our OraGoodCat Ultra 500 has 500 km NDEC.

Real range A/C 26° @ ≤ 90 km/h on main roads 400 km.

Real range A/C 26° @ 120 km/h on motorway 280 km.

Real range A/C 26° @ ≈40 km/h in the mountains 500 km

The aerodynamics of the Ora GoodCat are not very good.

[Bandersnatch]

6 hours ago, KhunLA said:

The MG MAXUS 9 (van) is pretty awesome and very plush inside, with nice specs. 

 

The MG Maxus 9 stand was swamped at the motor show. Nobody at Kia ICE Mini Van display, so I couldn't resist asking "Rot Fai Far Mai Kap?" (Electric?) Then looking disappointed and walking away.

 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

5 hours ago, Pib said:

 

Don't really know...somewhere south of 400km I'm sure.

 

Couldn't maintain 120kmh from Bangkok to HuaHin due to road conditions, speed limits, etc., at any time during the day or night.   Plus I wouldn't enjoy the speeding tickets via mail about a month later.

 

The Atto cruises at 120km smoother and quieter than the Fortuner.

 

The chart is skimpy on background info...got a web link that provide such?

The full report, just for you.

 

matecconf_bultrans2017_06002.pdf

[JBChiangRai]

7 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The full report, just for you.

 

matecconf_bultrans2017_06002.pdf 462.01 kB · 2 downloads

EV’s are no different to ICE vehicles, wind resistance and aerodynamically take their toll.

 

The major difference is at very low speed or stationary, the IVE vehicle is burning a lot of fuel at (typically) 25% efficiency to keep the air conditioning, power steering and brakes operating,

 

Wind the speed up and they both use incremental energy identically.

[ExpatOilWorker]

4 hours ago, Klonko said:

For comparison

Our OraGoodCat Ultra 500 has 500 km NDEC.

Real range A/C 26° @ ≤ 90 km/h on main roads 400 km.

Real range A/C 26° @ 120 km/h on motorway 280 km.

Real range A/C 26° @ ≈40 km/h in the mountains 500 km

The aerodynamics of the Ora GoodCat are not very good.

Very good and honest answer. Speed really is a range killer for EVs.

[HighPriority]

6 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Pib,

What kind of range do you think your Atto 3 will have if you hit the highway to Hua Hin an early morning and kept the speed at a constant 120 km/h?

Looks like the comfort zone for EVs are urban city speed of 20-60 km/h.

The Fortuner will of course be right at home at 120 km/h.

lol.

The fortuna will be drinking like a camel @120kmh.

[ExpatOilWorker]

7 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

EV’s are no different to ICE vehicles, wind resistance and aerodynamically take their toll.

 

The major difference is at very low speed or stationary, the IVE vehicle is burning a lot of fuel at (typically) 25% efficiency to keep the air conditioning, power steering and brakes operating,

 

Wind the speed up and they both use incremental energy identically.

The big difference is that the optimum speed is way higher for an ICE.

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

10 minutes ago, HighPriority said:

lol.

The fortuna will be drinking like a camel @120kmh.

Have you ever owned a Fortuner or are you just making fact up as we go along?

 

13.6 km/l is pretty Impressive. 

 

Driving at an indicated 120 - 130 km/h and not using cruise control we achieved 7.3l/100km measured at the pumps on the down trip....trip computer also indicated the same.

 

https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/showthread.php/328637-Fortuner-with-very-impressive-fuel-consumption

 

[Pib]

@ExpatOilWorker

  Thanks for the report.  But all the fancy charts in the report don't look nearly as good as my personal spreadsheet where I compare my Atto and Fortuner in terms of fuel efficiency/cost to drive per Km....partial snapshot below.

 

[HighPriority]

14 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Have you ever owned a Fortuner or are you just making fact up as we go along?

 

13.6 km/l is pretty Impressive. 

 

Driving at an indicated 120 - 130 km/h and not using cruise control we achieved 7.3l/100km measured at the pumps on the down trip....trip computer also indicated the same.

 

https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/showthread.php/328637-Fortuner-with-very-impressive-fuel-consumption

 

Do you own a fortuna or are you just cherry picking to suit your agenda ?

 

I drive a 2021 Toyota HiAce.

Diesel auto.

With a mix of 80/100kmh driving I get 9-9.5l/100km.

Stop start sends it up over 10, sitting on 130kmh sends it towards 12l/100km.

Towing any type of trailer sends it towards 12.

 

Edit: And towing @ 150kmh gets it up around 15-16l/100km

 

7.3l/100km @ 120+ is laughable.

Edited February 29 by HighPriority

[Pib]

5 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Have you ever owned a Fortuner or are you just making fact up as we go along?

 

13.6 km/l is pretty Impressive. 

 

Driving at an indicated 120 - 130 km/h and not using cruise control we achieved 7.3l/100km measured at the pumps on the down trip....trip computer also indicated the same.

 

https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/showthread.php/328637-Fortuner-with-very-impressive-fuel-consumption

 

This guy must be driving downhill all the time.  My 2009 Fortuner 3.0L diesel gets 10.4Km/liter based on my combined city and highway driving....I was getting 10.4Km/L when it was new and many years later in 2024 it still gets 10.4Km.   But hey, maybe the 2.8L is a lot more fuel efficient than the older 3.0L diesel engine.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

This guy must be driving downhill all the time.  My 2009 Fortuner 3.0L diesel gets 10.4Km/liter based on my combined city and highway driving....I was getting 10.4Km/L when it was new and many years later in 2024 it still gets 10.4Km.   But hey, maybe the 2.8L is a lot more fuel efficient than the older 3.0L diesel engine.

On the highway at 100-120 I get just over 11km/L, and my long term combined is 10.46km/L with the 2.8L Fortuner. 

 

My 3L Isuzu Highlander used to get over 12 highway. The Fortuner was something of a disappointment power wise.

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, HighPriority said:

lol.

The fortuna will be drinking like a camel @120kmh.

You mean it goes a long time without a drink? I regularly go 725-750km between fill-ups with mine. 

[josephbloggs]

47 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

You mean it goes a long time without a drink? I regularly go 725-750km between fill-ups with mine. 

Of course you do. And you drive 700+ kms without a break. You are my hero.

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Of course you do.

Last ten fill-ups:

 

4 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

And you drive 700+ kms without a break.

Not so far in Thailand.

4 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

You are my hero.

Thanks, that means a lot coming from you. 

[josephbloggs]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Last ten fill-ups:

 

Not so far in Thailand.

Thanks, that means a lot coming from you. 

I don't know what those numbers mean.  5th column is how much you spent on diesel, the rest I have no idea.

Not sure what you are trying to prove really. Care to elaborate? (By the way I don't own an EV before you accuse me of something silly)

[Bandersnatch]

Just for comparison. I own 2 cars and a motorbike, they are each used just about every day 

 

Amount spent on fuel for all the vehicles over the last 4 month ฿0

 

It doesn’t matter how fast I drive the vehicles the cost per km doesn’t change

 

Do I spend hours filling in spreadsheets to record my driving efficiency   - no

[JBChiangRai]

7 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Of course you do. And you drive 700+ kms without a break. You are my hero.

We are already seeing insurance companies refuse to pay when the driver is inebriated.  ECU’s store lots of information, I can see an issue coming if you had a bad accident after traveling a long distance without a break, especially if there was a fatality involved.

 

10 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The big difference is that the optimum speed is way higher for an ICE.

 

 

The issue is the ICE is already inefficient at idle and recovering from that means a high optimum speed to counteract the inbuilt wasted energy of the engine.

 

The EV doesn’t have the same constraints.

 

Both cars have wind resistance and tyre rolling resistance as their main source of wasted energy related to speed.

 

It’s not valid to say the ICE has a higher optimum speed as if that is a good thing, the ICE is only 25% efficient typically whereas the EV is massively more efficient.