Uvalde shooting: Texas shooting response was 'wrong', says official

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Copied from Twitter so must be accurate.

Yes correct, try following the link a little, it was tweeted onto to twitter by New York Times correspondent Mike Baker. The reason I didn't add the NYT link is because its got a paywall but you can access it here if you are really interested:

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20220528193227/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/27/us/texas-shooting-911-call-press-conference.html

 

 

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Really?  The statistics indicate that handguns, not "military-style guns" are the main weapon of choice, in general, in killings.   No, I don't have a dog in this fight.

But not in mass shootings where the target is normally fairly random and born of hate. Handgun murders are usually crimes involving drugs or money. The mission is to prevent the killing of dozens of kids in a school by a person so heavily armed that the police are essentially powerless in the short term.

[Excel]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Really?  The statistics indicate that handguns, not "military-style guns" are the main weapon of choice, in general, in killings.   No, I don't have a dog in this fight.

Provide a link to the statistics for your statement

[EVENKEEL]

58 minutes ago, Excel said:

Provide a link to the statistics for your statement

Wow, that took almost 10 seconds. Also note out of the 400 million guns only 20 million are those scary looking assault rifles.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/type-gun-us-homicides-ar-15/story?id=78689504

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Without going back and pulling up the details of each past case, I would certainly bet that handguns are NOT the weapon of choice in most mass shootings... a la Texas.

 

But I would certainly believe that they are the most common weapon in day to day individual homicides....

 

Hopefully, the feds will pass expanded background checks and waiting periods laws applying to ALL weapon purchases.

 

But with Republicans invariably opposed and the Senate evenly divided, I'm not holding my breathe. And the future of gun control legislation is only going to get worse if the Republicans end up regaining a majority in the House of Reps in this year's mid-term elections.

 

Citizens can complain all they want about the tragedy of senseless gun violence and mass shootings.  But in the end, what they get is who they vote for at each election. Votes matter!

 

 

Edited May 29, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Excel]

4 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Wow, that took almost 10 seconds. Also note out of the 400 million guns only 20 million are those scary looking assault rifles.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/type-gun-us-homicides-ar-15/story?id=78689504

That's a ABC news article to suit the politics of it's owners  not a validated independent statistic so guess you better do a lot more research rather than posting propaganda. And to prove the point even from that article if you had read it, it states; "Of the 10,258 gun murders in the U.S. in 2019, handguns were used in 6,368 of them, according to FBI data. But these numbers may not be exact due to a lack of gun violence research," 

 

 So clearly there is no adequate statistics currently to prove the drivel what you and others on here attempt to preach in order to promote your sick campaigning of individual arms ownership and that semi automatic weapons of war are not the real issue. 

[vandeventer]

On 5/28/2022 at 11:35 AM, KhunLA said:

40 minutes transpired ... that's one embarrassing police department.  Hard to believe not 1 officer didn't enter the building.  "Protect & Serve" ????

 

Hope those reports aren't accurate.

 

The truth will all come out in the end! As no one likes to see the death of kids by a madman that  could have been prevented if only  a few cops had balls. enough to go in early. But we must also  open are eyes to the deaths of hundreds of kids in the Ukraine by another madman who is  still killing them.

[EVENKEEL]

4 hours ago, Excel said:

That's a ABC news article to suit the politics of it's owners  not a validated independent statistic so guess you better do a lot more research rather than posting propaganda. And to prove the point even from that article if you had read it, it states; "Of the 10,258 gun murders in the U.S. in 2019, handguns were used in 6,368 of them, according to FBI data. But these numbers may not be exact due to a lack of gun violence research," 

 

 So clearly there is no adequate statistics currently to prove the drivel what you and others on here attempt to preach in order to promote your sick campaigning of individual arms ownership and that semi automatic weapons of war are not the real issue. 

You clearly don't want the truth if it doesn't fit into your narrative.

[ozimoron]

5 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Wow, that took almost 10 seconds. Also note out of the 400 million guns only 20 million are those scary looking assault rifles.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/type-gun-us-homicides-ar-15/story?id=78689504

and what percentage of gun massacres does the AR 15 feature in? Isn't that the really relevant statistic here?

 

Of the last 80 mass shootings in the United States, more than a quarter, including Monday's shooting in Boulder, Colorado, involved the use of AR-15 rifles.

 

Among those incidents are some of the deadliest mass shootings in the nation's history, including the Las Vegas shooting, which left 59 people dead; the Orlando, Florida, nightclub shooting, which killed 50; and the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in Connecticut, which killed 28.

 

AR-15-style assault rifles have been a common trend in some of the deadliest mass shootings

 

https://www.newsweek.com/ar-15-rifles-were-used-26-percent-last-80-mass-shootings-america-1578107

Edited May 29, 2022 by ozimoron

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, vandeventer said:

The truth will all come out in the end! As no one likes to see the death of kids by a madman that  could have been prevented if only  a few cops had balls. enough to go in early. But we must also  open are eyes to the deaths of hundreds of kids in the Ukraine by another madman who is  still killing them.

It is trickling out, as now seeing news-blips w/photos of student being assisted out window, along with reports the classroom doors were quite secure, and opened out, so breaching would have been an issue possibly unsuccessful, along with not having the means / tools to breach.

 

Lots of speculation, with no facts.  Big surprise.

 

 

[ozimoron]

13 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

It is trickling out, as now seeing news-blips w/photos of student being assisted out window, along with reports the classroom doors were quite secure, and opened out, so breaching would have been an issue possibly unsuccessful, along with not having the means / tools to breach.

 

Lots of speculation, with no facts.  Big surprise.

other than these facts.

 

Security failures allowed the shooter to massacre 19 students and two teachers, school safety experts say.

 

Yet when the gunman arrived at the school, he hopped its fence and easily entered through a back door that had been propped open, officials said

 

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-shootings-texas-education-violence-3d2859f9f97aec3459008b0ea8c51b65

Edited May 29, 2022 by ozimoron

[Liverpool Lou]

19 hours ago, Excel said:

21 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Really?  The statistics indicate that handguns, not "military-style guns" are the main weapon of choice, in general, in killings.   No, I don't have a dog in this fight.

Provide a link to the statistics for your statement

As you asked so nicely...

 

Almost 60% involves handguns, 3% involve "military-style/assault weapons".

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

 

Provide a link justifying your reason for, clearly, suggesting that my comment was inaccurate.

[KhunLA]

10 hours ago, ozimoron said:

other than these facts.

 

Security failures allowed the shooter to massacre 19 students and two teachers, school safety experts say.

 

Yet when the gunman arrived at the school, he hopped its fence and easily entered through a back door that had been propped open, officials said

How much man/women power along with billions of dollars would it take to secure all school to prevent the occasional nutter from a mass shooting at a school.  Could they not simply wait until the end of class, when 100s are simply leaving the building and vulnerable. 

 

Not to trivialize the loss of school children during these shooting, but we are only talking < 50 deaths a year.  Since it has not been done, after so many shootings, then it would appear, securing the schools doesn't seem to be a priority to most.

 

I wonder if the subject is brought up at school board & parent meetings, with a proposal to properly secure the school, and the yearly cost / tax increase it would incur.  WHY it hasn't be done ?

 

Lot of folks screaming it needs to be done, but apparently few willing to pay for it.  Seems to be at least one real at / in school shooting every year.  And yet ... not much to prevent them successfully.

[animalmagic]

We are often told 'Guns are not the problem, people are the problem'.

So why do they let problems buy guns?

"A WELL REGULATED militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

Kids cannot vote, buy alcohol, cigarettes, pornography or gamble, but they can buy a gun.  Doesn't seem very well regulated to me.  Background checks, cooling off periods and restrictions on types of weapons are necessary to regulate keeping and bearing arms.  Or they can join the National Guard.

[DJ54]

Border Patrol until was BORTAC similar to SWAT… AR type weapons need to immediately require at least two background checks, 25 year old age requirement and documented purpose for these type 

of weapons. Biden or someone with a magic wand needs to make it happen immediately 

[khaowong1]

6 hours ago, animalmagic said:

We are often told 'Guns are not the problem, people are the problem'.

So why do they let problems buy guns?

"A WELL REGULATED militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

Kids cannot vote, buy alcohol, cigarettes, pornography or gamble, but they can buy a gun.  Doesn't seem very well regulated to me.  Background checks, cooling off periods and restrictions on types of weapons are necessary to regulate keeping and bearing arms.  Or they can join the National Guard.

I have several guns in my home, and each and every one I bought, I had a background check done and had to wait at least 2 weeks to get it.  And I live in Texas.  And I'm 79 years old.  How this 18 year old kid bought 2 AR-15 types of weapons and got them has still not been addressed.  I'm a big proponent of the 2nd amendment and I want to know how that happened.  

[Slip]

6 minutes ago, khaowong1 said:

I have several guns in my home, and each and every one I bought, I had a background check done and had to wait at least 2 weeks to get it.  And I live in Texas.  And I'm 79 years old.  How this 18 year old kid bought 2 AR-15 types of weapons and got them has still not been addressed.  I'm a big proponent of the 2nd amendment and I want to know how that happened.  

Thank the NRA and their Republican shills.

[TropicalGuy]

On 5/28/2022 at 1:27 PM, billsmart said:

Just recently, there's been much too much emphasis put on the mistakes of law enforcement and how those contributed to the RESULTS of the horrible outcome . Right now, we (US citizens) need to stay focused on the CAUSE of the problem - the alarming proliferation of military-style guns among the general public. We've got to do something to return our laws to support the intent of the 2nd Amendment, the enabling of a people's militia, which in these days and times I interpret to be our National Guard, not a weapons locker in everyone's home. ????

US Supreme Court Disagrees.

They ruled (5-4) that individual citizens can constitute the  “armed militia” referenced in 2nd amendment… and rightly so . ????????

Witnessed US National Guard in “action” in Iraq. Basic poorly trained ( 6 wks !) infantry were used to “ guard” KBR Supply Convoys…… when attacked broke & ran away leaving the unarmed US Civilian Truckers to be Murdered by Insurgents….. ????certainly can’t be trusted. ????

[TropicalGuy]

That entire pathetic little local police dept. (like SO many in US) were the most disgraceful possible:  cowards, traitors, liars & incompetents.????????

These bloody bastards must all be FIRED and barred from service for life.Those Poor KIDS. 
 

Better still go Gun Suicide Yourselves from Unbearable Shame of This Disgraceful Failure ????????

[TropicalGuy]

Just now, TropicalGuy said:

That entire pathetic little local police dept. (like SO many in US) were the most disgraceful possible:  cowards, traitors, liars & incompetents.????????

These bloody bastards must all be FIRED and barred from service for life.Those Poor KIDS. 
 

Better still go Gun Suicide Yourselves from Unbearable Shame of This Disgraceful Failure ????????

Missed JAILED after FIRED .. 

[TropicalGuy]

5 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

That entire pathetic little local police dept. (like SO many in US) were the most disgraceful possible:  cowards, traitors, liars & incompetents.????????

These bloody bastards must all be FIRED and barred from service for life.Those Poor KIDS. 
 

Better still go Gun Suicide Yourselves from Unbearable Shame of This Disgraceful Failure ????????

Missed JAILED after FIRED .. 

[TropicalGuy]

Immediately Upgrade ALL School Security to SAME Enjoyed by Washington Offices of Politicians who have been blocking this precise measure now for over 40 years since first school mass shooting 1979????????????

 

Source: Other Prior Poster who has been completely Ignored.  

[Bkk Brian]

How the NRA Rewrote the Second Amendment

 

The Founders never intended to create an unregulated individual right to a gun. Today, millions believe they did. Here’s how it happened.

 

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/how-nra-rewrote-second-amendment

[Chomper Higgot]

On 5/28/2022 at 2:43 PM, khaowong1 said:

Heads are going to roll over this.  I have a friend who works at the Capital Building in Austin Texas and she tells me the Governor is so mad he starts spitting when he talks about it.  I think a big overhaul in local and state police departments in Texas is coming.  A little too late for these innocent children I know, but maybe it will help the next problem.  People are talking about Mental Health issues, but when you have some 18 year old, buying two AR-15 type rifles, and that much ammo, and then shoot your granny in the face, it goes beyond Mental Health, it goes straight to crazy evil.  There were a lot of red flags flying around this kid and no one seemed to be paying any attention to it.  You can go back in history and point out all kinds of red flags for a whole bunch of people, but when it comes down to where the rubber meets the road, sometimes you just can't stop evil people from being evil.  

The head that needs to roll is that if the governor himself.

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, Slip said:

Thank the NRA and their Republican shills.

Isn't Biden and the Democrat's currently in Office and POTUS ?

[Slip]

7 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Isn't Biden and the Democrat's currently in Office and POTUS ?

Irrelevant who is in power.  The NRA have it all tied up nicely for now.  They and their Republican assets are to blame for the state of gun violence in the U.S.  They block each and every effort to reign in the violence, because reasons.

[khaowong1]

8 hours ago, TropicalGuy said:

That entire pathetic little local police dept. (like SO many in US) were the most disgraceful possible:  cowards, traitors, liars & incompetents.????????

These bloody bastards must all be FIRED and barred from service for life.Those Poor KIDS. 
 

Better still go Gun Suicide Yourselves from Unbearable Shame of This Disgraceful Failure ????????

I agree with this statement.  I wouldn't even give them the courtesy of quitting.  Fire them all. 

[khaowong1]

7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The head that needs to roll is that if the governor himself.

Why?  

[billsmart]

17 hours ago, TropicalGuy said:

US Supreme Court Disagrees.

They ruled (5-4) that individual citizens can constitute the  “armed militia” referenced in 2nd amendment… and rightly so . ????????
 

The US Constitution was ratified in 1788, and the 2nd Amendment was ratified in 1791. It is short and the full text is: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." 

 

Some people, like me, believe the first two phrases were included to define and justify the last phrase, which is the right the amendment grants. This was the way the amendment had been historically interpreted and enforced, and the way the amendment was affirmed in the SCOTUS ruling of 1939.

 

Some people, like you and SCOTUS in 2008, just disregard the first two phrases and only see the last phrase as being important. I and many others disagree with the 2008 ruling.

You can read more about these differing opinions at https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/second_amendment.

Also, I wrote a op-ed on this ten years ago suggesting the "right to keep and bear arms" be changed to a "privilege to keep an bear arms," and regulated much the way we now regulate the privilege to have a drivers' license. You can read that at http://www.billsmart.com/writing/opinion/2nd_amendment/2nd_amendment.htm.

I don't have much hope that anything much will change about gun ownership as long as our (USA) government is so bitterly divided and conservatives (Republicans) have a stranglehold (filibuster and cloture rules) over the US Senate. And, of course, there is also the fact that our current SCOTUS has a conservative majority. 

I see a lot of political turmoil probably leading to violence in the US over the next six years or more. This is one of the reasons I'm happy to be living in Thailand. 

 

 

[morrobay]

Police need to have semi automatic rifles too. You don't want to bring a handgun to a rifle fight. That was first made very clear during the Miami/FBI shoot out where the agents had handguns up against a mini-14 , .223 semi auto rifle

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

Edited May 31, 2022 by morrobay