Jan. 6 committee says probe shows Trump led and directed effort to overturn 2020 election

[ozimoron]

The State Department is offering up to $10 million to those who provide information on foreign interference in U.S. elections, officials announced on Thursday.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/30/state-department-reward-election-interference-00043680

[Scott]

A post from an unapproved source has been removed along with replies.  

 

[bendejo]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

The State Department is offering up to $10 million to those who provide information on foreign interference in U.S. elections, officials announced on Thursday.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/30/state-department-reward-election-interference-00043680

The Federal gov't should make it a felony to make accusations of any sort of voter monkey business without viable standing.  If that person themselves ever ran in an election, even for something like the dogcatcher for Cowsass, Wisconsin, their own electoral history will be opened up for investigation.  Sorry folks, "I just know!" doesn't make it.

Quote

“I have huge concerns with these voting machines,” Otero County Commissioner Vickie Marquardt said Monday. “When I certify stuff that I don’t know is right, I feel like I’m being dishonest because in my heart I don’t know if it is right.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/15/gop-commission-refuses-to-certify-new-mexico-primary-vote-00039771

Miss Vickie's quote sounds a lot like the demands people were making to see Obama's birth certificate because they "don't know who he is."  I don't recall hearing similar for DT, W, et al.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by bendejo

[Jingthing]

On 6/29/2022 at 2:00 PM, Jingthing said:

I'm calling it.

Trump's political career is now officially over.

The republicans won't nominate him now because he's too much damaged goods with no chance of winning solidly with independent voters and more right wing democrats 

Why?

The hearing yesterday.

He's toast.

Mark my words.

Doesn't matter now whether or not he's convicted of a crime.

Of course nothing matters to Trump's cult of personality people. But they're only 30 percent.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/28/politics/donald-trump-january-6/index.html

Why today's 1/6 hearing was utterly devastating for Donald Trump

Hey, I beat the professional pundits to the punch.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/put-a-fork-in-donald-trump-the-ex-president-is-done

 

Quote

 

Mark it on your calendars. This was the week the meteoric political career of Donald Trump did what meteors often do and collided with planet Earth, leaving a large, ugly mark on the landscape.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Jingthing

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Hey, I beat the professional pundits to the punch.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/put-a-fork-in-donald-trump-the-ex-president-is-done

 

I'm not so optimistic.  We've already seen one poster who stated that he thinks Biden is worse than Trump.  The post has since been deleted, but it's worth noting that on a topic about the former President doing everything in his power, including provoking a violent attack on the Capitol, to subvert the legitimate outcome of an election and end democracy in America, he still preferred Trump.

 

That kind of mentality is widespread in America.  It's very scary.

Edited July 2, 2022 by heybruce

[ballpoint]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Mark it on your calendars. This was the week the meteoric political career of Donald Trump did what meteors often do and collided with planet Earth, leaving a large, ugly mark on the landscape.

Trump was a large, ugly mark on the landscape long before his downfall.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

I'm not so optimistic.  We've already seen one poster who stated that he thinks Biden is worse than Trump.  The post has since been deleted, but it's worth noting that on a topic about the former President doing everything in his power, including provoking a violent attack on the Capitol, to subvert the legitimate outcome of an election and end democracy in America, he still preferred Trump.

 

That kind of mentality is widespread in America.  It's very scary.

I guess you mean my ex-post. Well just to clarify, my comment about Biden being worse than Trump was on their relative performances during their times in office (as presidents/leaders).

 

I think that once it was plain that there was going to be no legal way to contest the election result, probably once Barr had said his piece, then Trump should have conceded - whether he still believed it was stolen or not - and just got on with getting ready to handover to Biden. The final two months of the Trump presidency were his worst by far and they will probably mean that he won't ever get the four more years he obviously wanted. 

 

 

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I guess you mean my ex-post. Well just to clarify, my comment about Biden being worse than Trump was on their relative performances during their times in office (as presidents/leaders).

 

I think that once it was plain that there was going to be no legal way to contest the election result, probably once Barr had said his piece, then Trump should have conceded - whether he still believed it was stolen or not - and just got on with getting ready to handover to Biden. The final two months of the Trump presidency were his worst by far and they will probably mean that he won't ever get the four more years he obviously wanted.

Our disagreements on relative performance would be off-topic.

 

On the subject of fitness for office, Trump made it clear he should never have been trusted with any office in US government when he publicly called the press "The enemy of the people".  Shortly after that the Saudi government murdered the journalist Jamal Khashoggi, probably assuming it had Trump's blessing. 

 

Anyone who undermines the free press in a democracy is undermining the democracy.  Trump's continued attempts at undermining democracy shows that he is a menace and should never again hold any position of trust, other than possibly prison snitch.

[Phoenix Rising]

42 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Our disagreements on relative performance would be off-topic.

 

On the subject of fitness for office, Trump made it clear he should never have been trusted with any office in US government when he publicly called the press "The enemy of the people".  Shortly after that the Saudi government murdered the journalist Jamal Khashoggi, probably assuming it had Trump's blessing. 

 

Anyone who undermines the free press in a democracy is undermining the democracy.  Trump's continued attempts at undermining democracy shows that he is a menace and should never again hold any position of trust, other than possibly prison snitch.

"......prison snitch."

 

Substitute those letters with one of the first letters in the alphabet and we're in agreement.

[Jingthing]

I would like to refer people to Jon Stewarts The Problem with Jon Stewart on youtube for a brilliant analysis of the downfall of trump and how the Hutchinson testimony fits into that.

He doesn't need to be prosecuted. That would be nice and well deserved but he's OVER regardless.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Our disagreements on relative performance would be off-topic.

 

On the subject of fitness for office, Trump made it clear he should never have been trusted with any office in US government when he publicly called the press "The enemy of the people".  Shortly after that the Saudi government murdered the journalist Jamal Khashoggi, probably assuming it had Trump's blessing. 

 

Anyone who undermines the free press in a democracy is undermining the democracy.  Trump's continued attempts at undermining democracy shows that he is a menace and should never again hold any position of trust, other than possibly prison snitch.

You've shifted now to your own opinion of what constitutes fitness for office and how "free" the press is. Both debatable but also off topic.   

[heybruce]

31 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You've shifted now to your own opinion of what constitutes fitness for office and how "free" the press is. Both debatable but also off topic.   

I've brought the topic to the fact that Trump is a threat to democracy in the US, which is very much on topic. 

 

Trump never refuted the stories about him and his performance that he didn't like, he simply called it fake news and his sheeple believed him.  That is another aspect of his threat to democracy.

[Yellowtail]

20 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I've brought the topic to the fact that Trump is a threat to democracy in the US, which is very much on topic. 

You are are stating your opinion as fact. 

 

20 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Trump never refuted the stories about him and his performance that he didn't like, he simply called it fake news and his sheeple believed him.  That is another aspect of his threat to democracy.

 

That the press did not "print" Trump's refutations does not mean they were never there. 

 

I think the press in general  is an enemy of the people as well, and I felt that way long before Trump. 

[ozimoron]

26 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

You are are stating your opinion as fact. 

 

 

That the press did not "print" Trump's refutations does not mean they were never there. 

 

I think the press in general  is an enemy of the people as well, and I felt that way long before Trump. 

What part of attempting to interfere with a legitimate vote isn't a threat to democracy? It's not opinion at all.

 

The Murdoch press is definitely the enemy of the people as are several other truth challenged clickbait publications.

Edited July 2, 2022 by ozimoron

[heybruce]

22 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

You are are stating your opinion as fact. 

 

 

That the press did not "print" Trump's refutations does not mean they were never there. 

 

I think the press in general  is an enemy of the people as well, and I felt that way long before Trump. 

I see.  You're sure the refutations are out there even though you don't know where.  Do you feel the same way about voter fraud?

 

The press (excluding the BS pundit shows) is a competitive business marketing facts of interest to the public.  News organizations that don't publish the truth are exposed by their competitors.  Every example you can give of a news organization publishing something false was exposed by the same or another news organization.

 

This free press is essential for preventing corrupt, self-serving politicians from using their positions of power to loot a country (as is being done in Russia and many other places).  Believing the press is the enemy of the people makes you and Trump enemies of democracy.

[candide]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Hey, I beat the professional pundits to the punch.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/put-a-fork-in-donald-trump-the-ex-president-is-done

 

 

Actually, he may well announce a presidential run for 2024. It would allow him to claim he has been unfairly targeted (and possibly indicted) because because liberals and RINOs are afraid he may win.. Of course, MAGA fans would believe him.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, candide said:

Actually, he may well announce a presidential run for 2024. It would allow him to claim he has been unfairly targeted (and possibly indicted) because because liberals and RINOs are afraid he may win.. Of course, MAGA fans would believe him.

Maga die hards aren't enough.

I didn't day he won't run.

He might.

But he won't be nominated.

[ozimoron]

23 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Maga die hards aren't enough.

I didn't day he won't run.

He might.

But he won't be nominated.

"Republicans are bracing for Donald J. Trump to announce an unusually early bid for the White House, a move designed in part to shield the former president from a stream of damaging revelations emerging from investigations into his attempts to cling to power after losing the 2020 election," The New York Times reported. "While many Republicans would welcome Mr. Trump’s entry into the race, his move would also exacerbate persistent divisions over whether the former president is the party’s best hope to win back the White House. The party is also divided over whether his candidacy would be an unnecessary distraction from midterm elections or even a direct threat to democracy."

 

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-2024-announcement/

[Yellowtail]

39 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I see.  You're sure the refutations are out there even though you don't know where.  Do you feel the same way about voter fraud?

I know many of the stories presented as "fact" the media were refuted, but a large percentage of the citizenry still believe.  

 

39 minutes ago, heybruce said:

The press (excluding the BS pundit shows) is a competitive business marketing facts of interest to the public.  News organizations that don't publish the truth are exposed by their competitors.  Every example you can give of a news organization publishing something false was exposed by the same or another news organization.

Yes, but when 90% present something as true, and 10% show it to be false, and half the county never sees the 10%, it's not as "competitive" as it might be. 

 

39 minutes ago, heybruce said:

This free press is essential for preventing corrupt, self-serving politicians from using their positions of power to loot a country (as is being done in Russia and many other places).

Indeed

 

39 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Believing the press is the enemy of the people makes you and Trump enemies of democracy.

Again, you state your opinion as fact.

 

I think the January 5 "hearings" are a farce and that the people running it are an enemy of the people. 

 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

I know many of the stories presented as "fact" the media were refuted, but a large percentage of the citizenry still believe.  

 

Yes, but when 90% present something as true, and 10% show it to be false, and half the county never sees the 10%, it's not as "competitive" as it might be. 

 

Indeed

 

Again, you state your opinion as fact.

 

I think the January 5 "hearings" are a farce and that the people running it are an enemy of the people. 

 

People died and you think the investigations and presentations of findings are a farce?

[heybruce]

17 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I know many of the stories presented as "fact" the media were refuted, but a large percentage of the citizenry still believe.  

 

Yes, but when 90% present something as true, and 10% show it to be false, and half the county never sees the 10%, it's not as "competitive" as it might be. 

 

Indeed

 

Again, you state your opinion as fact.

 

I think the January 5 "hearings" are a farce and that the people running it are an enemy of the people. 

 

I state my opinion as fact?  Why don't you provide some facts to support your claims above?

 

It is my opinion, supported by historical evidence, that democracy will degenerate into kleptocracy and autocracy without a free press.  The government calling the press "the enemy of the people" without evidence, which is what Trump and now you are doing, undermines that press and so undermines democracy.

 

Can you give an example of a successful democracy that was openly hostile to the free press? 

 

Regarding the January 6 hearings; a mob provoked by then President Trump violently stormed the Capitol and attempted to prevent the legal certification of a legitimate election.  If you don't think that warrants public examination (a lot more than it has been receiving) you are not only an enemy of democracy but also an outright anarchist.

 

However I'll give you an opportunity to defend your opinion "the January 5 "hearings" are a farce and that the people running it are an enemy of the people."  How is examining an insurrection and the events leading up to it detrimental the citizens of a democracy?

Edited July 2, 2022 by heybruce

[Yellowtail]

19 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

People died and you think the investigations and presentations of findings are a farce?

I did not speak to the investigations. I said I believe the "hearings" are a farce.

 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

I did not speak to the investigations. I said I believe the "hearings" are a farce.

 

sunlight too much for you?

[g man]

On 6/10/2022 at 11:40 PM, Lacessit said:

one of the most significant events of America's history.

Maybe you think it is so significant, and maybe many others don't but see it for what it is, complete with 3rd party he said / she said hearsay testimony with no chance to examine the witness. Why was the secret service not informed in advance of Hutchinson testimony and in addition only a moron solicits questionable hearsay testimony when the USSS Engle and Ornato could have provided first hand witness  account testimony of the events in the POTUS limo. We know the answer to that. Makes no sense and therefore anyone with a cortex can see thru the lame attempts to smear Trump. It's worse than a farce and AG Garland ain't gonna do squat. If he is, he best hurry because this committee will be escorted to the exits come January 2023. Imagine indicting a past president based on 3rd party uncorroborated testimony in a hearing that carries zero judicial authority. You are clearly not paying attention nor thinking this thru.

He best hurry, appoint a special counsel, appoint a prosecutor since AG Garland is conflicted, start the subpoena process and witness interviews and try to manage the 100's of legal challenges, but before you do that, a prima facia case of crimes needs to be articulated and so far nothing except some one sided stories produced for a television audience You better hurry and decide this real quick, before Trump declares his 2024 presidential intentions or this is all seen as another political witch hunt.

Edited July 2, 2022 by g man

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, g man said:

Maybe you think it is so significant, and maybe many others don't but see it for what it is, complete with 3rd party he said / she said hearsay testimony with no chance to examine the witness. Why was the secret service not informed in advance of Hutchinson testimony and in addition only a moron solicits questionable hearsay testimony when the USSS Engle and Ornato could have provided first hand account of the events in the POTUS limo. Makes no sense and therefore anyone with common sense can see thru the lame attempts to smear Trump. It's worse than a farce and AG Garland ain't gonna do squat. If he is he's best hurry because this committee will be escorted to the exits come January 2023. Imagine indicting a past president based on 3rd party uncorroborated testimony in a hearing that carries zero judicial authority. You are clearly not paying attention.

He best hurry, appoint a special counsel, appoint a prosecutor since AG Garland is conflicted, start the subpoena process and witness interviews and try to manage the 100's of legal challenges, but before you do that, a prima facia case of crimes needs to be articulated and so far nothing except some one sided stories produced for a television audience You better hurry and decide this real quick, before Trump declares his 2024 presidential intentions or this is all seen as another political witch hunt.

Trump needs to hurry. Republicans are already split on whether Trump should be charged, whether he should stand again and donors are already favouring the Florida dude.

[g man]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Trump needs to hurry. Republicans are already split on whether Trump should be charged, whether he should stand again and donors are already favouring the Florida dude.

Ok, excellent, thanks.

[Yellowtail]

8 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I state my opinion as fact?

Yes

 

8 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Why don't you provide some facts to support your claims above?

Why indeed. 

 

8 minutes ago, heybruce said:

It is my opinion, supported by historical evidence, that democracy will degenerate into kleptocracy and autocracy without a free press.

We agree

 

8 minutes ago, heybruce said:

The government calling the press "the enemy of the people" without evidence, which is what Trump and now you are doing, undermines that press and so undermines democracy.

Trump was not the government, nor am I. I think anyone not blinded by their ideology and  or their heat for Trump would see the context in which Trump attacked the press.  

 

8 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Can you give an example of a successful democracy that was openly hostile to the free press?

I'm not arguing against a free press, I support it wholeheartedly. 

 

[g man]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

favouring the Florida dude.

Nothing wrong with DeSantis, either he or Trump will be the boss in 2025.

[ozimoron]

Just now, g man said:

Nothing wrong with DeSantis, either he or Trump will be the boss in 2025.

You're deflecting from the point that the hearings have done tremendous damage to Trumps credibility and chances.

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Trump needs to hurry. Republicans are already split on whether Trump should be charged, whether he should stand again and donors are already favouring the Florida dude.

I think he should be charged.