Non-O Runaround

[payanak]

I have lived in Thailand for over 10 years with a Non-O retirement extension.  Due to covid I had to spend two years in US and my extension expired.  Arrived in Bangkok last week and received a permission to stay for 1 month at he airport.  Went to Chaeng Wattana with all the usual documents as in the past including an updated bank letter.  The front desk tells me I must fill out a TM 87 form as the TM 7 is out of date.  They are 100% identical in the information asked.  I expected to receive a que for the L section as in past years but am then told I must go to the "K" section first.

 

This turns out to be a completely different building several miles away.  I taxi there and go through the steps shown, not really knowing what I am doing.   Thai gf gets directions.  I think I received a new stamp in my passport giving me an actual visa for 60 days.  I pay 1900 baht for this and return to CW.

 

Now I am sent to a C1 counter.  Still can't get the one year retirement extension.   The IO girl could not explain why.  An older agent came over and tried to explain in English.  Her English was incomprehensible.  She then went off on my gf in Thai for 10 minutes.  My gf later tells me she didn't make much sense to her either.  The best the two of us could figure out later was that I could return in 15 days and then I would be given a 90 day visa.  Shortly before this was up I could return again and then get the one year Non-O extension.  Was told all my documents were good.  Additionally I was told I need to bring a copy of the lease for my gf's apartment as that is where I am currently staying.

 

The above is the best of my understanding.  If someone could explain as best they can what happened I would greatly appreciate it.  The 90 day wait is not an option for me as I will need to make a trip back to US in September and that visa will expire.  My only options seem to be to try and find an agent and pay him to get around this nonsense or wait until I go back to the US and try the original process through the consulate in Los Angeles.  Thanks so much for any help.

 

 

[lopburi3]

You did not arrive on a non immigrant O visa.  So you have to obtain that entry before extending with TM7.  The Tm87 should have cost 2,000 baht and that will provide a 90 day non immigrant O visa entry.  Once that is received and you meet the 2 months in bank for 800k requirement you can extend in a normal TM7 manner at cost of 1,900 baht.  You will do that at counter L and you can make online reservation if you want.

 

Oops - missed the 60 day visa bit so that would be an extension at 1900,   Sorry for misreading.

Edited June 19, 2022 by lopburi3

[ubonjoe]

Apparently you did not have at least 15 days remaining on your 30 day visa exempt entry that is required to apply for a non-o visa using a TM87 form.

Perhaps this list of required documents and etc will help you. https://bangkok.immigration.go.th/wp-content/uploads/2022C1_09.pdf

 

[bbko]

TM 7, Application for extension of temporary stay in the Kingdom

 

TM 87, Application for Visa

 

 

[OJAS]

Bit surprised that you were only told at the C1 counter to bring a copy of the lease for your girlfriend's apartment with you, as distinct from a freshly-completed TM30 form which I thought would have been required in your case since your latest retirement extension had lapsed and you were in effect seeking a fresh non-O visa upon which future retirement extensions would be based.

 

 

 

[biervoormij]

I think you should avoid the option of the consulate in Los Angeles. I don't think you will be able to get a Non-Imm O in the US and only a Non-Imm O-A.  The O-A would require a medical, background check and $100,000 health insurance coverage.

 

Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong but better to check than get surprised.

 

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, biervoormij said:

Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong but better to check than get surprised.

You are wrong but not important in this topic since he is already here in Thailand.

See: https://thaiembdc.org/2020/11/17/nonoretirement/

[biervoormij]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You are wrong but not important in this topic since he is already here in Thailand.

See: https://thaiembdc.org/2020/11/17/nonoretirement/

Thanks ubonejoe for the correction.

 

The OP said the following in his original post.  Would you recommend trying to start over again in the US?

 

"The 90 day wait is not an option for me as I will need to make a trip back to US in September and that visa will expire.  My only options seem to be to try and find an agent and pay him to get around this nonsense or wait until I go back to the US and try the original process through the consulate in Los Angeles.  Thanks so much for any help. "

[Mitkof Island]

I signed my name ninety six times (I lost count after that) the same mountain of documents, pictures, new passport pictures, map to house all the exact same stuff (this time even more papers) After over two hours could not get out of there fast enough. Now I return again in another twenty days for another pile of papers, the same old <deleted>, after a house visit and of course under the table money for no good reason. Where does this nightmare end and when does the office in Savannaket Laos finally open so I don,t have to deal with this any more and just cross a land border every 90 days?

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Mitkof Island said:

Where does this nightmare end and when does the office in Savannaket Laos finally open so I don,t have to deal with this any more and just cross a land border every 90 days?

It is already open and their have been reports of getting a non-o visa there.

[asiaexpat]

Surprised the OP, having lived in Thailand for over 10 years, did not realize once his Permit to stay and reentry permit expired he had no Non-O any more and would need to follow the process to get a new Non-O. I suspect he has been enlighten as to the process. Good luck at the LA Consulate.

[Onerak]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Apparently you did not have at least 15 days remaining on your 30 day visa exempt entry that is required

That is the exact reason I advice people to get a TV when they intend to convert to a Non-O. A tourist visa is superb easy to get and now with e-visa it is can be done from home. No more running around for documents, MO, PO etc. And one can charge their C for the fees. Once you have a TV, the 60-day gives you more breathing room after you land in Thailand. There is no rush to get things done. But many people try to avoid giving the $40 visa fee. These are the same people bashing Indian and Chinese every time their VOA fee is waived to attract more tourists.  THese are also the same people who say it is superb easy  to get a Non-O and retirement extension when I promote and describe the benefits of hiring an agent. In contrast, this forum is full of horror stories about not able to get their Non-O and extension even after spending days. 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Onerak

[buick]

OP - immigration can be difficult at times.  frustrating, etc...  i've arrived in thailand from the US on a visa exempt entry (allowed 30 days, although one was 45 days as they gave that amount when quarantine was in place).  i already had a bank account with the 800,000thb on deposit.  it is fairly easy to go to desk C-1 and change/convert your visa exempt entry to a 90 day NON O (i've done it twice).  there is rarely any wait time, desk C-1 is not busy,  you are at the desk with the IO in minutes.  so not a long day at immigration.  i also had the challenge of being in/out of the country so often that i had to time it with one of the rare times that i was actually in thailand for more than 90 days so i would be able to do the one year extension.  

 

it might be easier to get the NON O from the LA consulate.  but once you are aware of the process to do it here in thailand, it is fairly simple - assuming you've already got the bank account and the money on deposit.  you get a bank letter, your lease, make some copies of passport pages and you are all set.  as noted by another, you've got to do it with at least 15 days left on your permission to stay via a visa exempt entry or tourist visa entry. 

[Mitkof Island]

17 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It is already open and their have been reports of getting a non-o visa there.

If that is the case. Has anything changed with the Type O Marriage requirements at that office. And , Is it possible to stop my current visa out of the Petchabun office cancel it early and reapply for Laos and get a multiple entry visa there? I much prefer traveling to a border every 90 days then deal with that office any longer.

[ubonjoe]

54 minutes ago, Mitkof Island said:

If that is the case. Has anything changed with the Type O Marriage requirements at that office. And , Is it possible to stop my current visa out of the Petchabun office cancel it early and reapply for Laos and get a multiple entry visa there? I much prefer traveling to a border every 90 days then deal with that office any longer.

No changes I am aware of. There is a current ongoing topic about them.

If you do not have a re-entry permit your extension of stay would no longer be valid as soon as your leave the country.

[Mitkof Island]

13 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

No changes I am aware of. There is a current ongoing topic at them.

If you do not have a re-entry permit your extension of stay would no longer be valid as soon as your leave the country.

I will make sure I have a multiple entry stamp from the Petchabun office before traveling to Laos. Would love to change this visa as soon as possible going to the office has been a complicated pain every time I go.

[lopburi3]

1 minute ago, Mitkof Island said:

I will make sure I have a multiple entry stamp from the Petchabun office before traveling to Laos.

That is what you do not want - you want to leave without a re-entry to end your current permitted to stay and apply for a new multi entry O visa from what you posted. 

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Mitkof Island said:

I will make sure I have a multiple entry stamp from the Petchabun office before traveling to Laos. Would love to change this visa as soon as possible going to the office has been a complicated pain every time I go.

They would not issue you a non-o visa if you have a valid a re-entry permit since they consider it equal to have a valid visa. You apparently misread my post.

[Mitkof Island]

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

They would not issue you a non-o visa if you have a valid a re-entry permit since they consider it equal to have a valid visa. You apparently misread my post.

Ok Thanks so much for the info this is all new to me since my last visas were either issued in the states or at the Laos office. This is my first getting a visa at an immigration office within Thailand and hopefully my last not worth the hassle and prefer traveling to another country every 90 days.

[flexomike]

14 minutes ago, Mitkof Island said:

Ok Thanks so much for the info this is all new to me since my last visas were either issued in the states or at the Laos office. This is my first getting a visa at an immigration office within Thailand and hopefully my last not worth the hassle and prefer traveling to another country every 90 days.

you can only do two land border crossings per year, unlimited by air, 

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, flexomike said:

you can only do two land border crossings per year, unlimited by air, 

Yes 

Be aware that is 2 per calendar year 

[Soondae]

19 hours ago, biervoormij said:

I think you should avoid the option of the consulate in Los Angeles. I don't think you will be able to get a Non-Imm O in the US and only a Non-Imm O-A.  The O-A would require a medical, background check and $100,000 health insurance coverage.

 

Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong but better to check than get surprised.

 

You are absolutely correct, better to get the non-O issued in Thailand 

[superal]

19 hours ago, Mitkof Island said:

I signed my name ninety six times (I lost count after that) the same mountain of documents, pictures, new passport pictures, map to house all the exact same stuff (this time even more papers) After over two hours could not get out of there fast enough. Now I return again in another twenty days for another pile of papers, the same old <deleted>, after a house visit and of course under the table money for no good reason. Where does this nightmare end and when does the office in Savannaket Laos finally open so I don,t have to deal with this any more and just cross a land border every 90 days?

What a palava , could and should be simplified . Enough to test the patience of a saint . There are of course alternative options to secure an extension or visa .

In the ops case I would have thought that there could have been some sort of concession due to the covid travel problems plus there should be some consideration and common sense  given the fact that he had lived in Thailand  for 10 years and so had a record of many successful extension applications . 

[ericthai]

 

12 hours ago, flexomike said:

you can only do two land border crossings per year, unlimited by air, 

That is only for visa exempt entries.

[payanak]

UbonJoe - thanks for your response but I had 21 days left on my one month permission to stay received at the airport.  Additionally, as I commented, the senior IO we talked to told us all my documents were good.

 

Lopburi3 - thanks for your response.  What you say makes sense.  I have had a million baht in Bangkok Bank for over 6 years so that is not an issue. 

 

I find it appalling that not a single person, not even a supervisor, could explain the procedure to me in understandable English or in Thai to my gf.  Every single person they deal with every day is a non Thai speaker yet they have no ability to communicate even the basics.  This is inexcusable and no amount of "TIT" can justify this. 

 

I have located an agent in Bangkok I have hopes for.  I have chosen this route as I do not suffer fools lightly and probably would not be able to keep my smart mouth shut during a second experience and risk getting thrown out of the country for good and blacklisted.  My appreciation to all who took the time to respond.

[Mitkof Island]

I have to agree with you 100% and after paying an extra 5000 baht to (make things more easy) I was not pleased just a total custerfrack from the moment I first walked into the office. Who is your agent and how much? So I can end this misery.

Edited June 20, 2022 by Mitkof Island

[Mitkof Island]

5 hours ago, ericthai said:

 

That is only for visa exempt entries.

That is what the word multiple entry means.

[Andycoops]

On 6/19/2022 at 4:31 PM, Mitkof Island said:

I signed my name ninety six times (I lost count after that) the same mountain of documents, pictures, new passport pictures, map to house all the exact same stuff (this time even more papers) After over two hours could not get out of there fast enough. Now I return again in another twenty days for another pile of papers, the same old <deleted>, after a house visit and of course under the table money for no good reason. Where does this nightmare end and when does the office in Savannaket Laos finally open so I don,t have to deal with this any more and just cross a land border every 90 days?

The consulate in Savannakhet is open and there are new reports on this forum of people obtaining Non O visas.

[lopburi3]

2 hours ago, Mitkof Island said:

That is what the word multiple entry means.

Multiple entry visa entry is not visa exempt entry.  Totally different.

[Searat7]

After reading these stories I think I will need an agent too. I used O-A visas from USA for 14 years but I followed advice here and am coming on tourist visa July 4 with intent to get Non-O in Bangkok- money is already there.

I am flying over from USA on SWISS for 7 months and I know they will want to see onward travel so I booked trip to Phnom Penh in late August but now I am wondering if I am allowed to travel outside Thailand during the 90 days before I get the extension.