Florida’s ‘Don’t Say Gay’ law takes effect today. Its impact is already being felt

[PETERTHEEATER]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

There is a lot more to LGBT subject matter than just relationships.

I agree. Laser Guided Bomb technology is complicated.......

[Emdog]

8 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I believe schools are for teaching what is needed to become productive in the work place.  Should concentrate on; language, science, math.

 

Social & sexual education should be learned at home, as one size doesn't fit all, an may go against the families' beliefs.

 

All people will find their 'identity' without government interference.  Certainly doesn't need to be taught in school.  Media bombards them already with their options.

 

Don't need the distractions in their learning environment.  Matter fact, y'all can stop teaching religion & history also.  As useless, and nothing but divisive, and as pointed out elsewhere, nobody actually learns from it.

"I believe schools are for teaching what is needed to become productive in the work place." Which would include working with gay etc people? I've had gay supervisor before: no problem for me, because I am not a bigot.... more people are gay than you would guess.

"Social & sexual education should be learned at home, as one size doesn't fit all, an may go against the families' beliefs." What do you do when families are unwilling or just plain ignorant/willfully stupid on a subject? Like some say, hatred and bigotry are learned attitudes, and families often are where that takes place.

" Matter fact, y'all can stop teaching religion & history also.  As useless, and nothing but divisive, and as pointed out elsewhere, nobody actually learns from it." Probably you learned nothing from it, but beyond yourself that is projection. You seem to be proud of your ignorance.

 

[SunnyinBangrak]

Would it be fair and accurate to call this the "don't say straight" bill? I am confused by the framing of this in the media. Is the gay community more fecund than the straight community and so have more kids in school? I doubt that. 

 This is certainly a feather in DeSantis's cap. Keeping young kids safe from predators will earn him a lot of votes from Floridians. I note DJT did not dismis the idea of a Trump/DeSantis ticket in 2024, looks like a winning combo to me.

[placeholder]

28 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Would it be fair and accurate to call this the "don't say straight" bill? I am confused by the framing of this in the media. Is the gay community more fecund than the straight community and so have more kids in school? I doubt that. 

 This is certainly a feather in DeSantis's cap. Keeping young kids safe from predators will earn him a lot of votes from Floridians. I note DJT did not dismis the idea of a Trump/DeSantis ticket in 2024, looks like a winning combo to me.

Who exactly are these predators? Is there evidence of a sexual predator problem in primary schools?

[jak2002003]

This is very sad news.  Also very backwards.  

 

What if the teacher is gay, how are they going to feel if they are told they can't have a photo of themselve and their partner in the school?

 

What if a child has same sex parents or a gay family member ..and they are banned from mentioning it or drawing them in a picture of their family?

 

My personal story is an example of why this kind of law is wrong and damaging for gay people.

 

When I was in school, one class was called social education.  One topic was 'marriage and the family'.  We all studied our books and discussed what mates a family....

 

Then one kid raised his hand and asked the teacher about one of the photos, saying that the 2 adults shown looked like 2 women.  

 

All the class burst out laughing.  But then since serious questions from other kids asking if 2 women could be a family.

 

Now, in the UK back then we had a similar law, and the teacher (who was gay) said they he was not allowed to discuss that. 

 

Some kids started asking more serious questions and were astonished that they could not talk about it. It was not issue to them.  

 

If course the bullies took this opportunity to ridicule gay people and the teacher was not able to tell them they were being wrong while all the class was making gay jokes and degrading them.

 

At that time I was struggling with my sexuality....as a Christian I thought homosexually was a sin and I would go to hell.  I tried praying and tried to be attracted to girls.  I was very depressed then.  

 

This incident in the class was the final straw.  I felt I was so wrong and disgusting because it was even illegal to talk about it in school.  

 

Later that week I attempted suicide and was hospitalised.  After I recovered I was given counseling with someone at the hospital and I just made up lies about the reason I did it....still too ashamed to discuss being gay as I thought it was still so disgusting and that people would hate me.  I did not even tell my parents 

 

It is not 'grooming' or 'pushing agendas' on kids to have a rainbow flag or a photo of a same sex couple in the classroom.  It is just showing gat people are part of life and society. 

 

If it can help some kids not to feel alone or not being accepted, and gives someone sone comfort, then I am all for it. 

[herfiehandbag]

Righty ho! Does this mean that we can go back to using the word "gay" in it's original meaning, bright, cheerful, happy disposition, colourfully dressed?

[JonnyF]

22 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

If course the bullies took this opportunity to ridicule gay people and the teacher was not able to tell them they were being wrong while all the class was making gay jokes and degrading them.

I'm sorry for your experience.

 

This is an excellent example of why schools should stick to teaching Maths and English and not try to 'educate' kids about matters relating to sexuality. It's too open to be influenced by the personal beliefs of the teacher for one thing. Whether it's a left wing loon telling the kids how great/cool it is to be gay and that there's no such thing as a woman, or whether it's some hardcore Christian fundamentalist telling the kids it is evil and they'll go to hell, both are potentially damaging to kids and opens up the environment for bullying and ridiculing of the minority by the majority.

 

Had the class you describe not taken place, you could have avoided the painful experience altogether. I support keeping these discussions out of the classroom.

[VocalNeal]

Isaac Newton discovers Gayness?

 

 

I can mention as I don't teach in Florida

[placeholder]

39 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I'm sorry for your experience.

 

This is an excellent example of why schools should stick to teaching Maths and English and not try to 'educate' kids about matters relating to sexuality. It's too open to be influenced by the personal beliefs of the teacher for one thing. Whether it's a left wing loon telling the kids how great/cool it is to be gay and that there's no such thing as a woman, or whether it's some hardcore Christian fundamentalist telling the kids it is evil and they'll go to hell, both are potentially damaging to kids and opens up the environment for bullying and ridiculing of the minority by the majority.

 

Had the class you describe not taken place, you could have avoided the painful experience altogether. I support keeping these discussions out of the classroom.

Because there is no history of bullying kids because they were considered to be gay? And schools should just shut their eyes to it?

[JonnyF]

22 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Because there is no history of bullying kids because they were considered to be gay? And schools should just shut their eyes to it?

I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion from my post? Maybe you should read it again ????.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion from my post? Maybe you should read it again ????.

Because if the issue is bullying a kid because they are gay or perceived to be so, you don't think the Florida law is going to have a chilling effect on discussing this kind of bullying?

[JonnyF]

Just now, placeholder said:

Because if the issue is bullying a kid because they are gay or perceived to be so, you don't think the Florida law is going to have a chilling effect on discussing this kind of bullying?

No, I don't.

 

Like in the terrible experience of the poster I was responding to, the bullying started because the issue of homosexuality was raised in the classroom. Had they been teaching Maths, the issue would never have even been raised. 

 

If you think the best way to stop bullying of gay kids is to keep raising the subject of homosexuality in the classroom then I would strongly disagree. It's like the proponents of critical race theory who think the best way to tackle racism is to keep reminding people of the fact they are inherently different because they belong to a certain racial group and assuming (often negative) things about them based on that race.

 

It's nonsense, it doesn't belong in the classroom, certainly as a compulsory element. At a push I guess extra curricular, optional modules for this could be offered (subject to parental consent) but even that is not necessary IMO. 

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

No, I don't.

 

Like in the terrible experience of the poster I was responding to, the bullying started because the issue of homosexuality was raised in the classroom. Had they been teaching Maths, the issue would never have even been raised. 

 

If you think the best way to stop bullying of gay kids is to keep raising the subject of homosexuality in the classroom then I would strongly disagree. It's like the proponents of critical race theory who think the best way to tackle racism is to keep reminding people of the fact they are inherently different because they belong to a certain racial group and assuming (often negative) things about them based on that race.

 

It's nonsense, it doesn't belong in the classroom, certainly as a compulsory element. At a push I guess extra curricular, optional modules for this could be offered (subject to parental consent) but even that is not necessary IMO. 

Sure. Bullying of gay kids wasn't a serious problem until info about gay people was mentioned in classrooms. Seriously?

[BritManToo]

On 7/4/2022 at 11:03 AM, jak2002003 said:

What if the teacher is gay, how are they going to feel if they are told they can't have a photo of themselve and their partner in the school?

I've never encountered one teacher who mentioned their sexuality or partner in a school (to the kids). In the UK it would have been considered gross misconduct, and probably grounds for dismissal. Teachers should keep their private life completely out of the school.

[JonnyF]

Just now, placeholder said:

Sure. Bullying of gay kids wasn't a serious problem until info about gay people was mentioned in classrooms. Seriously?

Not in my experience. We suspected a few kids at school were gay but the conversation never arose in a public setting and they weren't bullied. Unfortunately, ginger kids were, fat kids were, unattractive kids were, but thankfully I never remember gay kids being bullied.

 

Now, had it been raised in class every 5 minutes, gay pride marches, photos of homsexual couples on the walls, LGBT flags everywhere then maybe it would have been different...

 

Like I said, keep it out of the classroom and teach Maths, English etc. There's no need for compulsory lessons on the myriad of options of sexual orientation for kids. A child doesn't go to school to learn about Pansexuality, non binary, trans sexuality etc.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I've never encountered one teacher who mentioned their sexuality or partner in a school (to the kids). In the UK it would have been considered gross misconduct, and probably grounds for dismissal. Teachers should keep their private life completely out of the school.

Well fortunately in the UK its mandatory now with teaching in an age-appropriate way about lesbian, gay and bisexual sexuality. That also transfers to the International Schools in Thailand that teach the British curriculum. My daughter here was taught it and her remarks were that the only people who had issues were the Russian parents as the Russian students mentioned it to them.

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Well fortunately in the UK its mandatory now with teaching in an age-appropriate way about lesbian, gay and bisexual sexuality. That also transfers to the International Schools in Thailand that teach the British curriculum. My daughter here was taught it and her remarks were that the only people who had issues were the Russian parents as the Russian students mentioned it to them.

It's mandatory for a teacher to reveal their sexuality to their pupils in the UK?

That sounds unlikely to me.

 

More likely is you have reading comprehension issues.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

Not in my experience. We suspected a few kids at school were gay but the conversation never arose in a public setting and they weren't bullied. Unfortunately, ginger kids were, fat kids were, unattractive kids were, but thankfully I never remember gay kids being bullied.

 

Now, had it been raised in class every 5 minutes, gay pride marches, photos of homsexual couples on the walls, LGBT flags everywhere then maybe it would have been different...

 

Like I said, keep it out of the classroom and teach Maths, English etc. There's no need for compulsory lessons on the myriad of options of sexual orientation for kids. A child doesn't go to school to learn about Pansexuality, non binary, trans sexuality etc.

Really? Boys who were perceived to be gay, because they exhibited behaviors that were considered effeminate, didn't get bullied? Not believable.

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

I'm sorry for your experience.

 

This is an excellent example of why schools should stick to teaching Maths and English and not try to 'educate' kids about matters relating to sexuality. It's too open to be influenced by the personal beliefs of the teacher for one thing. Whether it's a left wing loon telling the kids how great/cool it is to be gay and that there's no such thing as a woman, or whether it's some hardcore Christian fundamentalist telling the kids it is evil and they'll go to hell, both are potentially damaging to kids and opens up the environment for bullying and ridiculing of the minority by the majority.

 

Had the class you describe not taken place, you could have avoided the painful experience altogether. I support keeping these discussions out of the classroom.

I don’t know where you get your view of teachers from but as a teacher I can tell you it is a false one. 
 

And as to sticking to maths and English you again have a misunderstanding of the vast range of skills and concepts that need to be taught, developed and encouraged if children are to emerge from schools able to cope in a society that is rapidly evolving and where much more is required from the workforce than being literate and numerate.
 

That is not to downplay the importance of these skills but there are are many more skills that are equally important. 

[Jingthing]

My personal experience in a decent well funded US school district in the 60's and 70's. 

 

LGBTQ stuff non existent in classes.

 

LGBTQ kids and those suspect for any reason bullied relentlessly often violently.

 

The schools offered no support.

 

MOST but not all teachers made their relationship status public to the students. No openly LGBT teachers.  I had a drama teacher who was gay but he needed to be aggressively in the closet if for no other reason than he could have been legally fired just for being gay.

 

I did have a chance to talk to him after I graduated. He was badly damaged by the closet and had severe internalized homophobia. 

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I don’t know where you get your view of teachers from but as a teacher I can tell you it is a false one. 

How so? You don't think a 20 something, far left, Pansexual teacher would have a different stance on teaching homosexuality to children than a 60 year old, ultra conservative fundamentalist Christian?

 

Of course the teachers own viewpoint is critical to how the subject would be approached. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

[Bluespunk]

Just now, JonnyF said:

How so? You don't think a 20 something, far left, Pansexual teacher would have a different stance on teaching homosexuality to children than a 60 year old, ultra conservative fundamentalist Christian?

 

Of course the teachers own viewpoint is critical to how the subject would be approached. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

You really do need to get a better grasp on what teaching involves. We follow curriculums with set content. We don’t just show up and think, “hmm, what shall I do today?”

[ivor bigun]

My cousin is gay,i remember back in the early 70s living in London,he lived with his boyfriend ,they never flouted the fact ,neither did any of their friends ,i used to go to the bar where most were gay ,everybody just got on with their lives and that was it ,now it seems it has to be shouted from the rooftops,why?

[Bkk Brian]

17 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

It's mandatory for a teacher to reveal their sexuality to their pupils in the UK?

That sounds unlikely to me.

 

More likely is you have reading comprehension issues.

"its mandatory now with teaching in an age-appropriate way about lesbian, gay and bisexual sexuality." 

 

ie to teach S.R.E. (inclusive) Sex and relationships Education

 

Apologies if I was unclear

[JonnyF]

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Really? Boys who were perceived to be gay, because they exhibited behaviors that were considered effeminate, didn't get bullied? Not believable.

Nope.

 

The 'gay' slur was used, but it was predominantly used on boys who were not perceived to be gay and it wasn't used in a malicious way. It was a throwaway term used among friends, like 'that was a bit gay' if someone did something goofy like missed an open goal during a game of football. For example, as a teenage skateboarder there was a vert trick called the "gay twist" which was a 360 starting backwards where you grabbed the board (it was 'gay' because you couldn't do it without grabbing the board, if you didn't grab the board it was called "The Caballerial" after the inventer of the trick).

 

So the term was used, but not maliciously and not on effeminate boys. I suspect that had there been LGBT flags everywhere and gay pride marches then the issue of the various forms of sexuality would have been at the fore more than it was. After all, we were just kids and fortunately skating, football, music, video games etc were more important to us than whether someone was LGBTQIA+.

[JonnyF]

12 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

You really do need to get a better grasp on what teaching involves. We follow curriculums with set content. We don’t just show up and think, “hmm, what shall I do today?”

You've missed the point again. The curriculum/content might be LGBT issues. The teachers views on those issues might be completely different and thus the way they teach might be different. Even if they are prepared to teach it in the first place might be an issue.

 

Here is one example where a teacher was sacked for her Christian beliefs and reluctance to teach these issues. Another good reason why this should be kept out of schools. Teachers shouldn't be sacked because their Christian or Muslim beliefs are not in line with the latest Woke trend.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/07/christian-school-worker-loses-tribunal-case-against-sacking

 

A livelihood and career ruined. Totally unnecessary.

[Jingthing]

20 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

My cousin is gay,i remember back in the early 70s living in London,he lived with his boyfriend ,they never flouted the fact ,neither did any of their friends ,i used to go to the bar where most were gay ,everybody just got on with their lives and that was it ,now it seems it has to be shouted from the rooftops,why?

To annoy people like you.

[JonnyF]

23 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

My cousin is gay,i remember back in the early 70s living in London,he lived with his boyfriend ,they never flouted the fact ,neither did any of their friends ,i used to go to the bar where most were gay ,everybody just got on with their lives and that was it ,now it seems it has to be shouted from the rooftops,why?

Actually most of the gay community is happy to just get on with their lives. They do so with very few issues but you never hear from them as they are busy getting on with their lives.

 

It's only a vocal minority that wants to shout it from the rooftops. These individuals tend to be the ones who have the most problems since generally most people nowadays don't care if someone is gay or not. I think that is what this minority hates the most, they don't want to blend in - they want to stand out, to be controversial, to be 'special' and being gay isn't really that special any more, it is just another immutable characteristic.

[PJ71]

32 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

To annoy people like you.

But straight people don't shout they're straight, they just go about their business.

 

Many gay people seem to like the whole world to know.......and then they complain.....very strange.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

But straight people don't shout they're straight, they just go about their business.

 

Many gay people seem to like the whole world to know.......and then they complain.....very strange.

Everyone is assumed by default to be straight and cisgender.. You didn't know that?