LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[Pib]

3 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

I agree with you -you must have been one of the first to get the visa - good work.

 

Why don't you do the annual report online?

I want to get some facetime to ask some curiosity questions...plus Chamchuri Sq is pretty easy for me to drive to in about 30 minutes. Also as a retire I got time to kill.  😎

[TravelerEastWest]

8 minutes ago, Pib said:

I want to get some facetime to ask some curiosity questions...plus Chamchuri Sq is pretty easy for me to drive to in about 30 minutes. Also as a retire I got time to kill.  😎

 

I understand completely I find the staff very friendly and helpful.  Easy to ask them questions not like immigration...

[Pib]

To any LTR visa holders listening in who got their visa say in the Sep-Nov 2022 time frame have any of you attempted/successfully accomplished an online 365 day address report?

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

Why don't you do the annual report online?

 

I must of missed that bulletin. Originally, only in person or via an agent was acceptable. Then, I believe, by mail was allowed. So, now, online?

[mudcat]

The TM95 form for annual LTR visa holders who have been resident for 1-year (i.e. have not left the Kingdom) is attached

TM.95 blank.pdf

[Startmeup]

Whats the Thai immigrations obsession with being 50 years old to get a visa

[Pib]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

 

I must of missed that bulletin. Originally, only in person or via an agent was acceptable. Then, I believe, by mail was allowed. So, now, online?

 

Below is my 26 Sep 2023 bulletin (a.k.a., 26 Sep AseanNow post) based on my facetime with BoI and Chamchuri Sq Immigration regarding the annual address reporting. 

 

Bottomline: in-person (or your authorized agent) or by mail to Chamchuri Sq Immigration....no online capability yet for 1 year reporting.  A person can try their local/nearby immigration office which may or may do it....must use the TM95 form which is for 1 year reporting. 

 

Was hoping that by now some folks you got their LTR visa in the Sep-Nov 2022 and hadn't left the country since getting the visa would have reported whether they was able to accomplish the report online or at their nearby immigration office, but I haven't seen anything.

 

 

[TravelerEastWest]

3 hours ago, JimGant said:

 

I must of missed that bulletin. Originally, only in person or via an agent was acceptable. Then, I believe, by mail was allowed. So, now, online?

No bulletin just what I was told third hand... could easily be wrong

[oldcpu]

3 hours ago, mudcat said:

The TM95 form for annual LTR visa holders who have been resident for 1-year (i.e. have not left the Kingdom) is attached

TM.95 blank.pdf 179.09 kB · 3 downloads

Thankyou for that document.  I'll make a note to save it. .... I guess in case needed, I will have to dig around to get the exact Chamchuri Sq Immigration office address.

 

I suspect I won't need such thou for some years.  I'm age-69 but I hope to keep traveling out of the country for short visits once or twice a year for the next 5 years and possibly longer.  Fortunately in setting up the LTR visa, BoI had the foresight to allow "the counter" for one's one-year report to be 'reset' each time one left Thailand and returned.  I obtained my LTR in June-2023, but left the country in August-2023 and did not return to Thailand until the last day in September-2023.  Hence my 'report' is not due until end-September-2024, and I am likely to exit/return to Thailand long before then.  

 

Given the 90-day on-line reporting rarely worked for myself, I find this 1-year reporting (and it being reset after each journey out/into Thailand) a bigger psychological benefit than I anticipated.

Edited November 12, 2023 by oldcpu

[mudcat]

Here is a sheet of mailing labels to Immigration you can print on label stock.  Do one for home and you are set for the decade 

Immigration - LTR Unit.docx

[stat]

On 11/12/2023 at 7:30 AM, Startmeup said:

Whats the Thai immigrations obsession with being 50 years old to get a visa

No one knows maybe they thought it to be imossible to be 48 and have a pension or sufficient money to not bother to work...

 

I also wonder why they are fixated on pension income instead of wealth being sufficient. Why do I need to show income if I show already 1 M in assets, no one knows. I know a lot of guys that invest for decades without touching their money apart from 40K USD per year. Alas they are ineligble for LTR wealthy pensioner because they cannot show 80K USD income.

Edited November 13, 2023 by stat

[TravelerEastWest]

What is the LTR email address for questions?

 

I want to confirm that the annual report is not possible via the internet.

[aublumberg]

54 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

What is the LTR email address for questions?

 

ltr [at] boi.go.th

[TravelerEastWest]

17 minutes ago, aublumberg said:

ltr [at] boi.go.th

Thank you

[oldcpu]

On 11/12/2023 at 1:30 PM, Startmeup said:

Whats the Thai immigrations obsession with being 50 years old to get a visa

My speculation is they figure anyone over age-50 won't live as long as someone under age-50.  Hence (if there is inflation) it is 'safer' for BoI to set a specific income/wealth that is lower for those age 50 and older than it is for such a limit for those who are younger.   They likely believed, once they set a 'lower wealth' criteria for "Wealthy Pensioners", as opposed to a higher 'wealth criteria' for Wealthy Global Citizens, they then needed to select an age limit to assign as a demarcation.   Since age-50 is used for other immigration visas, they possibly that that was a good age to select.

 

Again that is just my speculation as to what they may have been considering.

.

[Thailand J]

5 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

What is the LTR email address for questions?

goto https://ltr.boi.go.th

click on "CONTACT"

Very quick replies to my questions.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Thailand J

[Ben Zioner]

14 hours ago, stat said:

No one knows maybe they thought it to be imossible to be 48 and have a pension or sufficient money to not bother to work...

 

I also wonder why they are fixated on pension income instead of wealth being sufficient. Why do I need to show income if I show already 1 M in assets, no one knows. I know a lot of guys that invest for decades without touching their money apart from 40K USD per year. Alas they are ineligble for LTR wealthy pensioner because they cannot show 80K USD income.

AS it's name, LTR/WP  (Wealthy Pensioners) indicates, they want pensioners.  Now, from what I read here, some people think they should launch an LTR/YWP (Younger Wealthy Parasites), for  those educated  young ones who  contributed to society exclusively through gambling.

[oldcpu]

17 hours ago, stat said:

No one knows maybe they thought it to be imossible to be 48 and have a pension or sufficient money to not bother to work...

 

I also wonder why they are fixated on pension income instead of wealth being sufficient. Why do I need to show income if I show already 1 M in assets, no one knows. I know a lot of guys that invest for decades without touching their money apart from 40K USD per year. Alas they are ineligble for LTR wealthy pensioner because they cannot show 80K USD income.

 

Its a good point - and my assumption is that they want proof of more than just wealth. They also want proof of cash flow.  Its possible to be very wealthy but with cash flow so low (due to the type of investment/wealth that one has) that one has very little money to spend.  So I speculate (and speculate is the 'operative word' ) that proof of one's cash flow is also very important in their criteria.  They want the foreigner to spend money in Thailand, and if a foreigner can't access their wealth easily while at the same time the foreigner has small cash flow, it means that the foreigner will not be spending  very much of their money in Thailand.

 

For the Wealthy Pensioner LTR category, $80K US$ equivalent annual income, that full amount is not necessary if one has $250K US$ equivalent investment in Thailand (such as ownership in a foreign freehold condominium that is worth that amount), in which case $40K US$ equivalent annual income will suffice. 

 

But again, I suspect its not just proof of one's total wealth that they want - they also want proof of one's cash flow .... At least that is my speculation - and it being speculation means I could be wrong.

[stat]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

 

Its a good point - and my assumption is that they want proof of more than just wealth. They also want proof of cash flow.  Its possible to be very wealthy but with cash flow so low (due to the type of investment/wealth that one has) that one has very little money to spend.  So I speculate (and speculate is the 'operative word' ) that proof of one's cash flow is also very important in their criteria.  They want the foreigner to spend money in Thailand, and if a foreigner can't access their wealth easily while at the same time the foreigner has small cash flow, it means that the foreigner will not be spending  very much of their money in Thailand.

 

For the Wealthy Pensioner LTR category, $80K US$ equivalent annual income, that full amount is not necessary if one has $250K US$ equivalent investment in Thailand (such as ownership in a foreign freehold condominium that is worth that amount), in which case $40K US$ equivalent annual income will suffice. 

 

But again, I suspect its not just proof of one's total wealth that they want - they also want proof of one's cash flow .... At least that is my speculation - and it being speculation means I could be wrong.

Thanks for yor post! The problem with the cash flow line of reasoning is that cash flow does not equal the willingnes to spend it. It is not even about cash flow as I explicitly asked BOI do equity sales count towards to 80K goal and they said no, only gains count as income. So far only about 1000 application for wealthy pensioners ltr visa, the reason is obvious.

Edited November 14, 2023 by stat

[oldcpu]

50 minutes ago, stat said:

Thanks for your post! The problem with the cash flow line of reasoning is that cash flow does not equal the willingnes to spend it. It is not even about cash flow as I explicitly asked BOI do equity sales count towards to 80K goal and they said no, only gains count as income. So far only about 1000 application for wealthy pensioners ltr visa, the reason is obvious.

 

Good point - I believe thou (as you found out) is that they won't accept an equity sale as the type of regular/consistent cash flow they are looking for.  I speculate they have specific criteria for consistent/regular cash flow (ie income), and equity sales do not nominally satisfy them as being consistent enough - which is not to say its not cash flow - rather its just to say they won't accept such.

 

Reference the 'willingness to spend' that applies to all the LTR visas even if one meets the requirements to their 100% satisfaction. One can be a billionaire, get the LTR visa, be able to prove an income of millions every month, and yet never spend a cent in Thailand.  So they can only do their best and try to ensure one has the consistent incoming cash (and also other wealth) such that they are happy (based on their requirements) that one has the means to spend.  They can not force one to spend one's money.   When it comes to equities, it reads to me that they are very reluctant to accept very much associated with equities.  Possibly dividends / interest may be an exception to their reluctance.

 

It reminds me of my efforts to prove self insurance.  One has to prove > $100K US$ equivalent in a bank account for self health insurance.  I provided proof of an equity trading account that had such amount in cash and they refused to accept it, because it was an equity trading account.   I then provided proof of a self directed (by me) registered government retirement savings plan, that also exceeded the >$100K US$ equivalent in cash, but because I was allowed to purchase equities within that registered retirement savings account, they would not accept that as meeting their >$100K US$ cash amount for self health insurance. 

 

They appear very reluctant to accept equity accounts for some of their self insurance and also reluctant to accept equity sales as income (ie as a consistent  'cash flow' ) for their requirements. 

 

They appear to me to be very cautious in their approval when it comes equities (or equity accounts) meeting some of their requirements.  When one holds equities (as a stock) there can be good times and bad times to sell, and  I guess they struggle to believe one will regularly sell equities to meet what they wish to see as a consistent income.  

Edited November 14, 2023 by oldcpu

[ThailandRyan]

On 11/13/2023 at 5:46 AM, stat said:

No one knows maybe they thought it to be imossible to be 48 and have a pension or sufficient money to not bother to work...

 

I also wonder why they are fixated on pension income instead of wealth being sufficient. Why do I need to show income if I show already 1 M in assets, no one knows. I know a lot of guys that invest for decades without touching their money apart from 40K USD per year. Alas they are ineligble for LTR wealthy pensioner because they cannot show 80K USD income.

If they have that kind of assets then they can apply for the LTR-WGC visa, but then the assets, a certain amount must be in Thailand.

[Misty]

10 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

If they have that kind of assets then they can apply for the LTR-WGC visa, but then the assets, a certain amount must be in Thailand.

 

Yes, although for LTR-WGC they'd still need to show income of at least $80k/year for two years and invest $500k in Thai government bonds, foreign direct investment, or Thai property.  https://ltr.boi.go.th/#what

 

If they can wait until they're over 50 years old and can show between $40-$80k in income, they could then apply for the LTR-WP and only invest $250k in Thai government bonds, foreign direct investment, or Thai property.

 

 

 

 

 

[stat]

Embassy in germany even did not accept a brokerage account for an Oa visa back in the day. The fixation on income ist ridicoulous but nothing we can do about as tit. We are forced to pay taxes in a high tax country just to proof income. Some countries, germany included only have a witholding tax and no formal federal tax proof so again no formal proof of income in the case of cap gains. Boi said maybe they accept it. 

[oldcpu]

7 hours ago, stat said:

Some countries, germany included only have a witholding tax and no formal federal tax proof so again no formal proof of income in the case of cap gains. Boi said maybe they accept it. 

 

For the LTR visa, I think the reason why the BoI like to see a tax return, is because it provides a proof of income.  I receive a German pension and Germany (Deutsche Rentenversicherung) does provide me a letter every year stating how much pension they provided for that year.   I believe that official Deutsche Rentenversicherung letter to be pretty reasonable proof.  Deutsche Rentenversicherung specifically provides this for taxation paperwork purposes.

 

I did not provide that letter to BoI for proof of some of my income because (1) I did not want to bother obtaining an official translation from German into English, and (2) I had sufficient pension funds from elsewhere to meet the required > $40k US$/year for the LTR-WP ( and also used my condo in Thailand and some Thai government bonds to meet the $250K US equivalent investment).

 

Still - I believe (speculate) that BoI would accept that Deutsche Rentenversicherung letter if I had needed it to show more income to meet the $40K US equivalent criteria.

[stat]

29 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

For the LTR visa, I think the reason why the BoI like to see a tax return, is because it provides a proof of income.  I receive a German pension and Germany (Deutsche Rentenversicherung) does provide me a letter every year stating how much pension they provided for that year.   I believe that official Deutsche Rentenversicherung letter to be pretty reasonable proof.  Deutsche Rentenversicherung specifically provides this for taxation paperwork purposes.

 

I did not provide that letter to BoI for proof of some of my income because (1) I did not want to bother obtaining an official translation from German into English, and (2) I had sufficient pension funds from elsewhere to meet the required > $40k US$/year for the LTR-WP ( and also used my condo in Thailand and some Thai government bonds to meet the $250K US equivalent investment).

 

Still - I believe (speculate) that BoI would accept that Deutsche Rentenversicherung letter if I had needed it to show more income to meet the $40K US equivalent criteria.

Thanks for your post! As I do not draw a classical pension I cannot use such a letter unfortunately, neither do I have a condo. This whole nonsense about income does not make much sense but TiT and immigration. I am very interessed to hear how you invested in TH bonds (bank, broker in TH etc) and what the costs and interests is. Thanks!

[K2938]

On 11/14/2023 at 2:40 PM, oldcpu said:

Its a good point - and my assumption is that they want proof of more than just wealth. They also want proof of cash flow.  Its possible to be very wealthy but with cash flow so low (due to the type of investment/wealth that one has) that one has very little money to spend.  So I speculate (and speculate is the 'operative word' ) that proof of one's cash flow is also very important in their criteria.  They want the foreigner to spend money in Thailand, and if a foreigner can't access their wealth easily while at the same time the foreigner has small cash flow, it means that the foreigner will not be spending  very much of their money in Thailand.

 

For the Wealthy Pensioner LTR category, $80K US$ equivalent annual income, that full amount is not necessary if one has $250K US$ equivalent investment in Thailand (such as ownership in a foreign freehold condominium that is worth that amount), in which case $40K US$ equivalent annual income will suffice. 

 

But again, I suspect its not just proof of one's total wealth that they want - they also want proof of one's cash flow .... At least that is my speculation - and it being speculation means I could be wrong.

I respectfully disagree.  My hypothesis is that they just could not intellectually grasp that somebody can be very rich without having a huge taxable income and that the really rich people moreover generally have lots of opportunities to structure things such that they do not pay a lot of taxes.  These criteria were defined by some bureaucrats very remote from all this.

 

 

[K2938]

On 11/14/2023 at 4:22 PM, stat said:

BOI do equity sales count towards to 80K goal and they said no, only gains count as income.

And they also do not like gains very much if they are significant.  They will then ask to see the gains for many years and given market volatility the gains were probably not constant or at some point of time were even losses and then they will hold this against you.

[K2938]

38 minutes ago, stat said:

Thanks for your post! As I do not draw a classical pension I cannot use such a letter unfortunately, neither do I have a condo.

What you can do is use some of your funds to buy annuities of the appropriate amount.  This would then meet their criteria.  But as this is probably a really poor investment, you are likely to save money by just forgetting about the LTR visa and buy an Elite visa instead.

Edited November 15, 2023 by K2938

[TravelerEastWest]

1 minute ago, K2938 said:

What you can do is use some of your funds to buy annuities of the appropriate amount.  While probably being a pretty poor investment idea, this would then meet their criteria.

 

I bought an insurance policy for my LTR visa which I will probably never use sometimes these things are the cost of getting things done?

[K2938]

2 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

I bought an insurance policy for my LTR visa which I will probably never use sometimes these things are the cost of getting things done?

Indeed.  But it is a shame that you had to do this.  And the more unnecessary hurdles they erect thereby, the less people will apply for an LTR visa.