Cremation of expat in Thailand

[Speedo1968]

Could someone please clarify what documents are required if I wish to be cremated in Thailand ?
What signatures are required ?
I have already made my Will for "goods and chattels" etc.

[taotoo]

You'll need a death certificate, countersigned by the deceased.

[proton]

Do they double charge for it?

[HarrySeaman]

If you live in Thailand and don't have a Thai will and an executor then read below carefully!

First:  Someone needs to contact the deceased's embassy for instructions.

 

Is there a will, and if so, are you the executor?  If so go to the attorney who executed the will and they will guide you through everything.  The embassy will quickly issue the necessary paperwork to pick up the body from the hospital and cremate the deceased.  This will take only days, or perhaps a week.

 

Here is some of what I went through becoming the executor for a friend who died intestate.

 

If there isn't a will and you want to be the executor then get a good lawyer because you will need to fill in lots of legal papers to be appointed executor by the Thai courts, which takes weeks or even months since the family of the deceased needs to agree to you being the executor and paperwork needs to go back and forth between the deceased's family and the Thai lawyer.  After that I waited for the papers to get to the court, waited for a two separate court dates for two internet video sessions with the lawyer and the judge, then finally the lawyer could pick up the paperwork from the court for me.  It took four-five weeks total just for the courts.  Expect the cost to be at least 20,000 Bt.

 

Once you obtain the death certificate you will need and official Thai government translation for the embassy so they can issue the papers needed for the hospital to release the body.  The lawyer can guide you through this or even get it done for you.  The cremation is then arranged at a temple.  Note that in Thailand this is done with a wood fire, leaving lots of wood ashes and the bones, many of which will be intact or in large pieces.  Usually the bones are then broken up and the ashes and bone fragments collected. 

 

In my case, Thai friends of mine and of my deceased friend helped collect the body and take it to Wat Nop Thong Di Si Puet Ta Ram here in Pattaya for cremation.  The next morning they collected the remains of the deceased and arranged for the remains to be given up to the the Chittaphawan College of Phrakhru Winaithornthanakorn Attasaro (Luang Por Poonsub) temple for blessings.  These friends gave me some of the remains to send to my friends family then we took the rest to the Forbidden Floating Temple to dispose of in the ocean.

 

If you wish to dispose of the ashes and bones it is generally done into water.  The Thai guiding you can help with this.

 

If you wish to ship any of the deceased remains to your home country then you have a whole new world of problems.  To ship some of my friends remains to his family in the USA I had to find a funeral home in Bangkok that could arrange this (not strictly legal and not cheap).  They could only ship to an international airport directly - no forwarding flights once in the USA.  The remains had to be picked up by a funeral home that then shipped them to the family.  The cost for the USA funeral home made the cost in Thailand look minuscule.

Edited July 18, 2022 by HarrySeaman

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, HarrySeaman said:

If you live in Thailand and don't have a Thai will and an executor then read below carefully!

First:  Someone needs to contact the deceased's embassy for instructions.

 

Is there a will, and if so, are you the executor?  If so go to the attorney who executed the will and they will guide you through everything.  The embassy will quickly issue the necessary paperwork to pick up the body from the hospital and cremate the deceased.  This will take only days, or perhaps a week.

 

Here is some of what I went through becoming the executor for a friend who died intestate.

 

If there isn't a will and you want to be the executor then get a good lawyer because you will need to fill in lots of legal papers to be appointed executor by the Thai courts, which takes weeks or even months since the family of the deceased needs to agree to you being the executor and paperwork needs to go back and forth between the deceased's family and the Thai lawyer.  After that I waited for the papers to get to the court, waited for a two separate court dates for two internet video sessions with the lawyer and the judge, then finally the lawyer could pick up the paperwork from the court for me.  It took four-five weeks total just for the courts.  Expect the cost to be at least 20,000 Bt.

 

Once you obtain the death certificate you will need and official Thai government translation for the embassy so they can issue the papers needed for the hospital to release the body.  The lawyer can guide you through this or even get it done for you.  The cremation is then arranged at a temple.  Note that in Thailand this is done with a wood fire, leaving lots of wood ashes and the bones, many of which will be intact or in large pieces.  Usually the bones are then broken up and the ashes and bone fragments collected. 

 

In my case, Thai friends of mine and of my deceased friend helped collect the body and take it to Wat Nop Thong Di Si Puet Ta Ram here in Pattaya for cremation.  The next morning they collected the remains of the deceased and arranged for the remains to be given up to the the Chittaphawan College of Phrakhru Winaithornthanakorn Attasaro (Luang Por Poonsub) temple for blessings.  These friends gave me some of the remains to send to my friends family then we took the rest to the Forbidden Floating Temple to dispose of in the ocean.

 

If you wish to dispose of the ashes and bones it is generally done into water.  The Thai guiding you can help with this.

 

If you wish to ship any of the deceased remains to your home country then you have a whole new world of problems.  To ship some of my friends remains to his family in the USA I had to find a funeral home in Bangkok that could arrange this (not strictly legal and not cheap).  They could only ship to an international airport directly - no forwarding flights once in the USA.  The remains had to be picked up by a funeral home that then shipped them to the family.  The cost for the USA funeral home made the cost in Thailand look minuscule.

He wants to be cremated, so he won't be doing any of these actions.

[placnx]

2 hours ago, taotoo said:

You'll need a death certificate, countersigned by the deceased.

Will thumbprint do?

[blackshadow]

2 hours ago, proton said:

Do they double charge for it?

of course what do you think???

[Excel]

I presume you are living on your own  ? You say you have made a will, has it been lodged with a lawyer acting as your executer in Thailand ?

One point worth considering is that should you unfortunately pass away on your own that means your body may lay undisturbed for a while until perhaps someone detects bad odours and then calls the police. Given the nature of the RTP any valuables you may have ( and listed as goods and chattels in your will) may well  "disappear" shortly after the discovery of your body and most certainly before the reading of any will.

Just food for thought as perhaps you should consider giving them away whilst you are still living, at least that way you will have peace of mind in knowing that people have benefitted whom you wanted to benefit.

Of course if you do not live on your own then it will be up to your partner/friend to obtain the appropriate documents for your cremation.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Excel

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, blackshadow said:

of course what do you think???

 

1 hour ago, blackshadow said:

of course what do you think???

 

4 hours ago, proton said:

Do they double charge for it?

Yes they cremate the body twice, to be doubly sure the person is totally dead!

 

That means of course double charges for coffins, firewood and for fire starters.

[cjinchiangrai]

The whole village will be there to ensure that there are no incriminating intoxicants left behind. The temple will be happy the handle the barbeque part, I just hope they do not charge by the kilo.

 

Repatriating a body just to waste real estate is really dumb. I would be more interested in paperwork to be an organ donor.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Excel said:

I presume you are living on your own  ? You say you have made a will, has it been lodged with a lawyer acting as your executer in Thailand ?

One point worth considering is that should you unfortunately pass away on your own that means your body may lay undisturbed for a while until perhaps someone detects bad odours and then calls the police. Given the nature of the RTP any valuables you may have ( and listed as goods and chattels in your will) may well  "disappear" shortly after the discovery of your body and most certainly before the reading of any will.

Just food for thought as perhaps you should consider giving them away whilst you are still living, at least that way you will have peace of mind in knowing that people have benefitted whom you wanted to benefit.

Of course if you do not live on your own then it will be up to your partner/friend to obtain the appropriate documents for your cremation.

A long-term Nth. American expat died a month back in a hospital in Pattaya.

 

Police called, police given a copy of the will by a close Thai friend, (no assets whatever to be distributed), police them infomed the embassy and gave them the will, hospital sent an original copy of the death certificate to the embassy.

 

No surviving family in Nth America, all this explained in the will of the deceased. Embassy contacted a temple in Pattaya which has cremation services. Temple needed 4 items:

 

1. Original copy of death certificate issued by the hospital

2. Original copy of an instruction from the embassy to go ahead and conduct the cremation.

3. Original copy of a statement from the embassy stating who the ashes should be given to.  In this case a Thai friend of the deased who ultimately spread the ashes on the sea. 

4. Pre-payment for the cemation, about 50,000Baht, paid by donations from friends.

 

All done. 

[TigerandDog]

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

He wants to be cremated, so he won't be doing any of these actions.

The format of a Thai will makes provision for you to dictate how your remains are disposed of .e.g. cremation, burial or repatriation to home country.

 

How many more threads on this topic have to appear before people realise how easy it is to sort these things out, AND you do not need a lawyer if you have nominated an executor in your Thai will.

[blackshadow]

3 hours ago, Excel said:

I presume you are living on your own  ? You say you have made a will, has it been lodged with a lawyer acting as your executer in Thailand ?

One point worth considering is that should you unfortunately pass away on your own that means your body may lay undisturbed for a while until perhaps someone detects bad odours and then calls the police. Given the nature of the RTP any valuables you may have ( and listed as goods and chattels in your will) may well  "disappear" shortly after the discovery of your body and most certainly before the reading of any will.

Just food for thought as perhaps you should consider giving them away whilst you are still living, at least that way you will have peace of mind in knowing that people have benefitted whom you wanted to benefit.

Of course if you do not live on your own then it will be up to your partner/friend to obtain the appropriate documents for your cremation.

my ozzie mate died aug 2016.....his son and daughter came from ozz a week later......9k baht,..rings and watches had gone missing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Excel]

Just now, blackshadow said:

my ozzie mate died aug 2016.....his son and daughter came from ozz a week later......9k baht,..rings and watches had gone missing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately a common tale, whilst in your case it may have been anybody the RTP are the most likely culprits usually.

[blackshadow]

Just now, Excel said:

Unfortunately a common tale, whilst in your case it may have been anybody the RTP are the most likely culprits usually.

yeah i saw medics and police in his room while he was laying dead in room........

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

A long-term Nth. American expat died a month back in a hospital in Pattaya.

 

Police called, police given a copy of the will by a close Thai friend, (no assets whatever to be distributed), police them infomed the embassy and gave them the will, hospital sent an original copy of the death certificate to the embassy.

 

No surviving family in Nth America, all this explained in the will of the deceased. Embassy contacted a temple in Pattaya which has cremation services. Temple needed 4 items:

 

1. Original copy of death certificate issued by the hospital

2. Original copy of an instruction from the embassy to go ahead and conduct the cremation.

3. Original copy of a statement from the embassy stating who the ashes should be given to.  In this case a Thai friend of the deased who ultimately spread the ashes on the sea. 

4. Pre-payment for the cemation, about 50,000Baht, paid by donations from friends.

 

All done. 

Further to the above, i've been reminded that 50,000Baht is NOT a standard fee, and there is no standard fee 

 

I'm told that Some very small out of the way temples will do the burning with basically an elementary chanting etc., for 20,000Baht for a poor family (again not a standaard fee), and some very flash famous temples might well chrage a couple of hundred thousand Baht (not a standard fee) but the total cost depends on how many monks do the chanting, how many uniformed lay folks are engaged, the type and quantity of food provided (where there is also a wake) etc.

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, cjinchiangrai said:

The whole village will be there to ensure that there are no incriminating intoxicants left behind. The temple will be happy the handle the barbeque part, I just hope they do not charge by the kilo.

 

Repatriating a body just to waste real estate is really dumb. I would be more interested in paperwork to be an organ donor.

Organ donor;  that's if the deceased is fairly young and the donated organs are in very healthy condition. Not much point in putting a 90 year old working heart in a 10 year old.

 

However some univerities etc., will accept the whole part or specifuc areas of the decesed body for students to do reserch. Acceptance by the university medical research unit may depend on what age group / pre-condiions their current research is focusing on. 

[hotandsticky]

7 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Further to the above, i've been reminded that 50,000Baht is NOT a standard fee, and there is no standard fee 

 

I'm told that Some very small out of the way temples will do the burning with basically an elementary chanting etc., for 20,000Baht for a poor family (again not a standaard fee), and some very flash famous temples might well chrage a couple of hundred thousand Baht (not a standard fee) but the total cost depends on how many monks do the chanting, how many uniformed lay folks are engaged, the type and quantity of food provided (where there is also a wake) etc.

 

That sounds spot on from the experiences I have had.

[brianthainess]

I'm very surprised that some wats still use wood for cremations, My local wats use electric or gas.

Edited July 19, 2022 by brianthainess

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, brianthainess said:

I'm very surprised that some wats still use wood for cremations, My local wats use electric or gas.

The older, wood-fired cremation kilns are cheaper. Some temples are richer than others (they usually still have wood-fired kilns).

[HarrySeaman]

23 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

He wants to be cremated, so he won't be doing any of these actions.

To be cremated you need the death certificate, and at least for USA citizens you need a body release form from the US Government.  You NEED an attorney to guide you through this if there is no will appointing you as executor, and even the I would recommend having a lawyer to help you.

 

"so he won't be doing any of the actions"  If the body is cremated what do you expect to do with the ashes?  Just leave them there?

 

Dying is easy.  What comes after that is a cluster "sexual act" of government regulations.

[HarrySeaman]

23 hours ago, Excel said:

I presume you are living on your own  ? You say you have made a will, has it been lodged with a lawyer acting as your executer in Thailand ?

One point worth considering is that should you unfortunately pass away on your own that means your body may lay undisturbed for a while until perhaps someone detects bad odours and then calls the police. Given the nature of the RTP any valuables you may have ( and listed as goods and chattels in your will) may well  "disappear" shortly after the discovery of your body and most certainly before the reading of any will.

Just food for thought as perhaps you should consider giving them away whilst you are still living, at least that way you will have peace of mind in knowing that people have benefitted whom you wanted to benefit.

Of course if you do not live on your own then it will be up to your partner/friend to obtain the appropriate documents for your cremation.

Excellent point.

 

When a Canadian neighbor of mine passed away his significant other from the USA was visiting.  The partner was emotionally torn apart and didn't know what to do.  When I asked if the deceased had a will the answer was yes, and his partner was the executor.  My advice was to immediately call the attorney who made out the will and make sure he came to the house before calling the police.  Because of the attorney being present nothing went missing and because of the attorney and Thai friends the cremation, etc. went smoothly.

 

I don't know it it is currently in effect but only a couple of years ago if a USA citizen passed away outside of a hospital an autopsy was required.  This meant transporting the body to Bangkok for the autopsy.  If there was no executor the body was placed in storage until there was one to pay the transportation, autopsy fees, storage fees, and arrange for a cremation or funeral.  If a relative of the deceased was appointed the executor IN A THAI WILL and came to Thailand they could pay the fees and take care of disposing of the remains.  The worst case was if there was no executor and the family refused to pay.  At that point the US Government went after the family for the costs.

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, HarrySeaman said:

To be cremated you need the death certificate, and at least for USA citizens you need a body release form from the US Government.  You NEED an attorney to guide you through this if there is no will appointing you as executor, and even the I would recommend having a lawyer to help you.

 

"so he won't be doing any of the actions"  If the body is cremated what do you expect to do with the ashes?  Just leave them there?

 

Dying is easy.  What comes after that is a cluster "sexual act" of government regulations.

He will be dead, don't think he will be too worried.

[david555]

Do not expect the ashes to be the same as in the West  ..... like fine  white powder ......more to be quit rough here in Thailand  .????

[simon43]

Not an expat cremation.  My Thai niece died 4 weeks ago at 18 years old.  The temple wake lasted 3 days, with payment required for electricity, PA system, monks chanting, wood for cremation, food, drink etc.  (It was the main cremation temple for the amphur). About 50 Thai people attended, including both the leader (Naiyok) and deputy Naiyok of the Amphur, (because it was such an unusual/sad/unnecessary death - untreated TB), also hospital doctor and nurses.

 

The total cost was about 20,000 baht....

[connda]

It's in my will was well as my living will. 

If that doesn't cut it?  Really - why would I care.  I'm dead.  But - I expect my family to follow Thai tradition and will end up in the village's easy-bake oven. 

[connda]

13 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Not an expat cremation.  My Thai niece died 4 weeks ago at 18 years old.  The temple wake lasted 3 days, with payment required for electricity, PA system, monks chanting, wood for cremation, food, drink etc.  (It was the main cremation temple for the amphur). About 50 Thai people attended, including both the leader (Naiyok) and deputy Naiyok of the Amphur, (because it was such an unusual/sad/unnecessary death - untreated TB), also hospital doctor and nurses.

 

The total cost was about 20,000 baht....

None of that is a necessity.  It's up to the family.  My wife doesn't want that all the pomp and circumstance.  Neither do it.
Pop me in a casket, get the US paperwork cleared, then shake and bake.

[scorecard]

14 hours ago, NanLaew said:

The older, wood-fired cremation kilns are cheaper. Some temples are richer than others (they usually still have wood-fired kilns).

Case by case - might also depend on the desire of the family for more traditional activity. If it was a  very hi-so person the family might insist on sandalwood.

 

But does each attendee just put a small ribbon bound parcel of sandalwood on the shelf under the coffin (no fire) and then it's removed later to be used again.  And perhaps the actual fire is gas. 

[scorecard]

6 hours ago, connda said:

None of that is a necessity.  It's up to the family.  My wife doesn't want that all the pomp and circumstance.  Neither do it.
Pop me in a casket, get the US paperwork cleared, then shake and bake.

Me too, my Thai son and his Thai wife know well that I want the least amount possible spent on my cremation and that could well be at a temple which mainly deals with very poor people.

 

They also know that I want the money saved to be used for my grandchildrens' education. 

[scorecard]

On 7/18/2022 at 6:31 PM, Excel said:

Unfortunately a common tale, whilst in your case it may have been anybody the RTP are the most likely culprits usually.

Yeah unfortunately these things happen.

 

A different example, my mum took a pre-paid funeral plan to cover all the costs of cremation and placing the ashes alongside my dads coffin at the cemetery. 

 

She found the plan at a funeral home in Australia and I went with her to discuss the details. It wasn't cheap, which they admitted, because costs would rise over the years. At the same time they kept mentioning 'we will never ask for further payments from the surviving family'.

 

She died, funeral home called me within a couple of hours requeting $3,000- more. I hesitated because of their claims they would never ask for more money.

 

Two days later my adult son called me, the funeral home had just called him and asked him for $3,000-.

 

I found the number of a funeral directors association for Australia and I called. Their instant response was 'this is not an appropriate time for you to be quibbling about payment for your mother's funeral, and you can always pay in instalments'.

 

I quickly paid and promptly informed my son because he was quite distressed about the death and I didn't want him to have any further thoughts about paying money. I also didn't want him to be thinking I was being stingy. 

 

  

Edited July 19, 2022 by scorecard