Trump Booed at Arizona Rally Over His New Endorsement

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

In 2014 I was described as leftist for opposing the military coup that toppled the elected government in Thailand.  Now I'm described as a left winger for objecting to the assault on the US Capitol in a attempt to prevent the certification of the 2020 election result.

 

It seems anyone who supports and defends democracy is a leftist to some people.

 

BTW, I'm a retired USAF officer.  I have always taken my oath to defend the Constitution seriously, unlike Trump.  And I consider myself a centrist.

 

 

Although your Political leanings isn't too relevant to my point .

My point being that it wasn't me who was using a tactic to try to deflect and change the narrative by comparing the two  , I was just replying to you who compared the two

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

There was mass civil disturbances in over 40 cities in USA over a week long period and the National Guard were called to get the 40 cities back under control in the Floyd riots and looting and arson attacks 

   The Capitol hill protests was in one location for one day and everyone went home the next day , so there was no need for the National guard to get involved 

So there were 40 police departments to deal with the Floyd protests, and still 62,000 National Guard soldiers were needed.

 

There were an estimated 120,000 protesters in Washington D.C. on January 6, with 1200 entering the Capitol.  https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-classified-documents-reveal-number-january-6-protestors-1661296

 

There are a total of 1827 Capitol Police, the ones who have jurisdiction over the Capitol complex of buildings, 1214 were on duty at the time of the riot, and only 200 in the Capitol itself.  https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2021/12/16/where-were-the-us-capitol-police-when-protestors-stormed-the-capitol-on-january-6th/?sh=2303d070294e

 

It seems to me the greatly outnumbered Capitol police needed help, specifically the National Guard, which Trump refused to call.

 

 

[heybruce]

10 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Although your Political leanings isn't too relevant to my point .

My point being that it wasn't me who was using a tactic to try to deflect and change the narrative by comparing the two  , I was just replying to you who compared the two

If my political leanings are unimportant to me, then why did you refer to me as a "Left winger"?

 

I brought up the George Floyd protests because it is very common for the Trump defenders to bring it up as a false equivalence.  Are you sure you never did that?

 

However comparing the need for the National Guard at both the Floyd protests and the Capitol riot is legitimate.  62,000 National Guard deployed to deal with 40 protests equates to an average 1550 Guard soldiers per protest.  Since none of the George Floyd protests were as large as the Capitol protest, don't you think the calling the National Guard to the Capitol was advisable?  Everyone trapped inside the Capitol seems to have thought so.

 

 

[Credo]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, restrictions were for people who had been in China in the previous 14 days , restrictions weren't for Chinese people , just those who had been in China

This is what you posted:  

 

Trump didnt allow anyone who had been in China (in the last 14 days ) to travel to the USA and USA citizens needed to be tested and possibly quarantined on entry to the USA . 

   So, it wasn't just Chinese who were barred from entering the USA , it was anyone who had been in China (apart from USA citizens who needed negative test)

 

Nobody arriving was tested and nobody had a test before boarding the plane.  There were no health checks at all.  I highly doubt that immigration was looking to see where people had been because that would have taken a great deal of time.  If you have dual citizenship of any kind, you would enter the US on your US passport, not your foreign passport and that could have any travel to/from China.  

 

It's interesting that all the flights were routed to different cities due to Covid, but there were no health checks.  I knew people who flew in to Atlanta from Italy on one of the last flights out and they had no health checks either, they just caught a connecting flight to their destination.  No doubt, more than a few people flying in from Italy at the height of their pandemic wave would have been infectious.   

 

Like so many things with Trump, there was a big disconnect between what he said and what he did.

 

[nauseus]

19 hours ago, placeholder said:

Was it really that unclear? Yes he said that. Now tell me, what did he do to have the rioters evicted from the Capitol? Did he just watch the mayhem and do nothing?

Yes. It was just another question. You should be a politician on telly.

[Mac Mickmanus]

9 hours ago, Credo said:

 

Nobody arriving was tested and nobody had a test before boarding the plane.  There were no health checks at all.  I highly doubt that immigration was looking to see where people had been because that would have taken a great deal of time.  If you have dual citizenship of any kind, you would enter the US on your US passport, not your foreign passport and that could have any travel to/from China. 

 

 

 

That was because no one had been in China in the previous 14 days .

Only people who had been to China in the previous 14 days faced restrictions 

[Mac Mickmanus]

9 hours ago, heybruce said:

I brought up the George Floyd protests because it is very common for the Trump defenders to bring it up as a false equivalence.  Are you sure you never did that?

 

Nope, It was definitely YOU who bought the subject  up and I replied to you 

[Credo]

7 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That was because no one had been in China in the previous 14 days .

Only people who had been to China in the previous 14 days faced restrictions 

Well, that's not exactly true because we had people who had been in China.  They did not have a Covid test prior to boarding, they weren't asked for one at immigration.   

 

That is the problem with 'banning' people from China or having been in China.  It is people who had a likely exposure to Covid, not a country and not the people.  Italy was a total mess and had given the final date for flights out of the country.  Like my flight, they just waltzed into the country with no restrictions, no health check, nothing.  We got re-routed to different airports under the guise of health checks.  It didn't happen.

 

The young man sitting next to me was a Chinese-born American citizen.  He had been to China visiting family, then to Thailand and then back to the US.  He was fully expecting problems at immigration, but had no problem.  Again, he presented no Covid test, had no health check.   

 

[Scott]

If you wish to discuss the January 6 situation, please post in this topic. 

 

 

[nauseus]

23 hours ago, heybruce said:

Right.  "peacefully and patriotically" and "fight like hell".

 

However in the post you replied to I explained how Trump could have called off his mob with a single tweet, but chose not to.  Instead he enjoyed watching the storming of the Capitol on television, and took no action until after it was clear the coup attempt had failed.

 

I also pointed out that people who support Trump and his dereliction of duty are not patriots but the opposite.  I can understand why you don't want to address that.

You divert immediately. Tell someone else.  

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

You divert immediately. Tell someone else.  

I pointed out that you replied to my post without commenting on what i posted, and you reply with "I didn't divert, you diverted".  You are a true disciple of Trump.

[sawadee1947]

On 7/24/2022 at 11:11 AM, Scott said:

“But you like me?”

Definetely NO, Donald☹️

[placeholder]

 

 Do you understand that you complained about me not answering a question of yours but then you failed to answer a question of mine? Thanks for the moment of irony, I will treasure it always.

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

I pointed out that you replied to my post without commenting on what i posted, and you reply with "I didn't divert, you diverted".  You are a true disciple of Trump.

Why would I comment on a diversionary reply? As soon as Trump's word "peacefully" is mentioned then that is smothered in your hope that this quote will go away as fast as possible. This been similarly omitted/edited out and ignored by this hearing and you want to do the same.

 

I'm no disciple of Trump but I would like to see balance instead of this charade of a hearing and hope that anything in Georgia is handled much better.  

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

 

 Do you understand that you complained about me not answering a question of yours but then you failed to answer a question of mine? Thanks for the moment of irony, I will treasure it always.

Look at this - your first reply was in italics:

  On 7/30/2022 at 4:52 PM, nauseus said:

Do that mean you concede that he used the peaceful word?

Trump said a lot of things. But when the rioters invaded the Capitol he did nothing. To your way of thinking what speaks louder action (or in this case inaction) or words?

 

The only clear thing I saw in that was that you wanted to evade answering my question and change the question to yours. Now if you can't answer, why should I?

 

Irony my boot.

[placeholder]

14 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Look at this - your first reply was in italics:

  On 7/30/2022 at 4:52 PM, nauseus said:

Do that mean you concede that he used the peaceful word?

Trump said a lot of things. But when the rioters invaded the Capitol he did nothing. To your way of thinking what speaks louder action (or in this case inaction) or words?

 

The only clear thing I saw in that was that you wanted to evade answering my question and change the question to yours. Now if you can't answer, why should I?

 

Irony my boot.

First of all, it's true that Trump said a lot contradictory things. But in the next round I answered your question. You still haven't answered mine. An actual answer beats no answer. Or are you claiming some kind of exemption on the grounds of Trump adoration?

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Why would I comment on a diversionary reply? As soon as Trump's word "peacefully" is mentioned then that is smothered in your hope that this quote will go away as fast as possible. This been similarly omitted/edited out and ignored by this hearing and you want to do the same.

 

I'm no disciple of Trump but I would like to see balance instead of this charade of a hearing and hope that anything in Georgia is handled much better.  

You continue to divert while claiming "I'm not diverting, you're diverting."  Trump would be proud of you.

 

Below is my post that started this back and forth.  Note that I didn't post anything about Trump's speech the day of the Capitol attack.

 

On 7/30/2022 at 4:50 AM, heybruce said:

The next day, after the protesters had failed to prevent the certification of the election.

 

All Trump had to do was send out a tweet calling off the attack on the Capitol.  All he had to do was tell his supporters that he hadn't meant for them to actually fight their way into the Capitol and prevent Congress and Make Pence from doing their jobs.  But he didn't.  He waited until he was sure the coup attempt had failed before doing anything that would discourage the insurrectionists.

 

Trump attempted to prevent the certification of the election.  He attempted to prevent the peaceful transition of power for the first time in US history.  He attempted to overthrow our Constitutional democracy.  And you support him.

 

As I've stated before, Trump supporters are not patriots.

You immediately diverted with the old "peacefully and patriotically" part of an otherwise incendiary speech about stolen election BS.

 

On 7/30/2022 at 5:32 AM, nauseus said:

And as several here have stated before, Trump asked the crowd at the rally to go to the Capitol to protest "peacefully and patriotically". These words are well known by everyone who has followed this event at all closely but they are repeatedly ignored or blatantly omitted by this most recent kangaroo court, casting doubt on any shred of credibility of this hearing, that might gave existed otherwise.   

I pointed out that your reply did not address anything I posted.

 

On 7/30/2022 at 2:03 PM, heybruce said:

Right.  "peacefully and patriotically" and "fight like hell".

 

However in the post you replied to I explained how Trump could have called off his mob with a single tweet, but chose not to.  Instead he enjoyed watching the storming of the Capitol on television, and took no action until after it was clear the coup attempt had failed.

 

I also pointed out that people who support Trump and his dereliction of duty are not patriots but the opposite.  I can understand why you don't want to address that.

So you started with the "I'm not diverting, you're diverting" nonsense.

 

11 hours ago, nauseus said:

You divert immediately. Tell someone else.  

I can understand why you don't want to reply to what I actually posted.  Trump's inaction during the riot is indefensible.  However your attempted diversion is ridiculous, made more ridiculous by your attempts to stand by it. 

 

So, in conclusion, I'm not diverting, you're diverting.

[nauseus]

25 minutes ago, placeholder said:

First of all, it's true that Trump said a lot contradictory things. But in the next round I answered your question. You still haven't answered mine. An actual answer beats no answer. Or are you claiming some kind of exemption on the grounds of Trump adoration?

Why couldn't you give me a straight answer the first time? It saves angst.

 

To answer your question, I don't know what Trump did once he got to the WH but whatever it was he took far too long to appeal for the mob element to stop. I've already said that by not conceding the election much earlier and just handing over, I think that Trump has damaged himself so much that I don't think he'll run again. But it looks like my post has been removed.

 

The National Guard/security question is a mystery still, as everything I read seems to conflict or lacks detail on who did what and when. What is evident is that the police were undermanned and unprepared on the day, despite warnings of possible trouble days beforehand. It seems that Pence requested the NG after the fact but I cant find the truth about any action by Trump, before or on Jan 6th, Capitol security arrangements are not normally the president's responsibility, so others need to step up and explain this poor planning.  

[scorecard]

I'm sure he was just itching to ask for and to hopefully get personal approval, regardless of the real agenda of the gathering.

 

I wonder how many million dollars his lemmings donated?

[Mac Mickmanus]

22 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

 

The National Guard/security question is a mystery still, as everything I read seems to conflict or lacks detail on who did what and when. What is evident is that the police were undermanned and unprepared on the day, despite warnings of possible trouble days beforehand. It seems that Pence requested the NG after the fact but I cant find the truth about any action by Trump, before or on Jan 6th, Capitol security arrangements are not normally the president's responsibility, so others need to step up and explain this poor planning.  

Other people are also involved in saying where an when the N.G are deployed .

   Could have been that the other people were concerned about deploying the N.G to Capitol hill , because they were concerned that the N.G might side with the protestors . 

   Trump supporters protesting may have joined forces with the N.G and that would have caused even more problems 

[nauseus]

39 minutes ago, heybruce said:

You continue to divert while claiming "I'm not diverting, you're diverting."  Trump would be proud of you.

 

Below is my post that started this back and forth.  Note that I didn't post anything about Trump's speech the day of the Capitol attack.

 

You immediately diverted with the old "peacefully and patriotically" part of an otherwise incendiary speech about stolen election BS.

 

I pointed out that your reply did not address anything I posted.

 

So you started with the "I'm not diverting, you're diverting" nonsense.

 

I can understand why you don't want to reply to what I actually posted.  Trump's inaction during the riot is indefensible.  However your attempted diversion is ridiculous, made more ridiculous by your attempts to stand by it. 

 

So, in conclusion, I'm not diverting, you're diverting.

I've just said what I think to Placeholder but hear this:

 

Trump should have tried to call the mob out of the Capitol as soon as he was back at the WH. He was way too late - I don't know if he was waiting to see any outcome. 

 

If this was a planned violent attempt to prevent the certification of the election and an attempt to prevent the peaceful transition of power then I do not support that. However, I think that this whole day was an out of control sequence of events and that the opportunist rioters (not that many of of such a big crowd overall and not patriots) took advantage of the poor Capitol security staffing to break in and rampage. There were warnings, that even Cheyney was clear in describing, but no one wants to say why they were seemingly ignored.   

 

.   

Edited August 1, 2022 by nauseus

[candide]

24 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The National Guard/security question is a mystery still, as everything I read seems to conflict or lacks detail on who did what and when. What is evident is that the police were undermanned and unprepared on the day, despite warnings of possible trouble days beforehand. It seems that Pence requested the NG after the fact but I cant find the truth about any action by Trump, before or on Jan 6th, Capitol security arrangements are not normally the president's responsibility, so others need to step up and explain this poor planning.  

The security at the Capitol has been poorly planned.. However, it doesn't exempt anyone for the assault, just like the fact that a bank may not be well guarded doesn't excuse gangsters of robbing it.

 

According to several converging testimonies under oath, there is no doubt that Trump did nothing during the protest, they can be easily found.. Before January 6, he only apparent contradiction is between Milley's statement on Fox News and his testimony under oath (but a testimony under oath is more relable).

[placeholder]

33 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Why couldn't you give me a straight answer the first time? It saves angst.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for another moment of irony.

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Other people are also involved in saying where an when the N.G are deployed .

   Could have been that the other people were concerned about deploying the N.G to Capitol hill , because they were concerned that the N.G might side with the protestors . 

   Trump supporters protesting may have joined forces with the N.G and that would have caused even more problems 

I don't think so Mac. The only excuse I've seen so far is "optics" (in that it wouldn't look good for the vote counting ceremonials),

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, candide said:

there is no doubt that Trump did nothing during the protest, they can be easily found..

Trump did ask his protesting supporters to remain within the law and to stay peaceful and not to cause any violence 

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I don't think so Mac. The only excuse I've seen so far is "optics" (in that it wouldn't look good for the vote counting ceremonials),

I have a feeling that some Democrats saw an opportunity here .

Let the Trump supporters into the C.H  Building to protest and publicise that as being a revolution , to stop Trump running in four years time .

   Its quite simple when you think about it 

[SunnyinBangrak]

8 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Trump did ask his protesting supporters to remain within the law and to stay peaceful and not to cause any violence 

Correct. He made the now legendary make your voices heard "peacefully and patriotically" Tweet. 

 

He then made 2 other Tweets which were deleted and Trump's Twitter account was suspended so he could not assist any further in keeping the protest safe and getting the crowds to disperse and go home.

 These deleted Tweets are a matter of public record, and show Trump was trying to persuade the crowd to go home. Having deleted allows bad faith characters - politicians and media - to claim he was trying to incite violence. But alas, as I said the tweets are public record.

 

"“These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long,” he tweeted. “Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!”

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/06/us/politics/twitter-deletes-trump-tweet.html

 

I am hoping one of the the Aseannow Trump haters can explain exactly how "“Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!” means to riot, fight and violently overthrow the government in an act of insurrection?? Not holding my breath.

[candide]

10 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Trump did ask his protesting supporters to remain within the law and to stay peaceful and not to cause any violence 

While at the same time inflaming them....

Anyway, you are deflecting this was not what I was discussing, which were security issues, such as calling the National Guard

 

Trump did nothing during 3 hours while he was watching the mob assault the Capitol (which is exactly the topic of this thread.)

 

[Sparktrader]

On 7/31/2022 at 7:37 AM, heybruce said:

And I consider myself a centrist.

Most people who say that are lefties

[Sparktrader]

17 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I have a feeling that some Democrats saw an opportunity here .

Let the Trump supporters into the C.H  Building to protest and publicise that as being a revolution , to stop Trump running in four years time .

   Its quite simple when you think about it 

Yep, ring ins too