We are finding it hard to retain staff. Many resign and dont give notice.

[BusyB]

@ OneMoreFarang 'I know a women who own several bars. She hired many people from her "village" since maybe 20 years.'

 

Seems to be doing OK no? 

Edited July 29, 2022 by BusyB

[Mac Mickmanus]

14 hours ago, Inala said:

Now you can see why so many girls take the laying on their back boom boom route in bars & massage etc. A nice easy life compared to their counterparts slaving away under the hot sun in the rice fields. Sleep all day, party at night, time off when you feel like it. And if the girl is reasonably attractive, she'll make much more money than in the rice fields, with the added bonus of being in a better position to one day snag a (hopefully well off) farang boyfriend/husband...   

Some people seem think that there only two kinds of jobs in Thailand ; Either prostitution or planting rice in a field . 

   Don't these ignorant people not realise that there are jobs in 7/11 ?

[cdemundo]

I had a Thai acquaintance who had a job at a european embassy in Bangkok for several years.

He told me he had great pay and benefits and that it was the best job he had ever had.

Then he quit without having another job or a plan.

His next job was in a restaurant.

 

Just quit out of boredom? 

Not sure but no conflict or anything that he mentioned.

He just seemed to quit for no real reason that he spoke of; he just thought it was time to quit.

 

[ericthai]

10 hours ago, Jimjim1 said:

Did you ACTUALLY read his post especially about what he pays them and provides for them daily??

 

This to the poster,

Sir you can not buy loyalty as you have found,  so really in my estimation you are paying too much and the provisions you make for them will not make them show respect for you in the slightest, the Thai’s have no understanding of all that you do, and that is why the hi so’s and super rich only pay what is the going rate.

Your generosity to your staff will not be considered by them and you will not gain any empathy with them, the thoughts in the back of their heads is that you are a buffalo and that is why they walk away from the employment you provide.

My advice is to rewrite your contract of employment with clear and concise details in Thai pointing out that if they remove themselves from your employ without giving adequate reason and or notice they will not be paid any outstanding salary.

From the moment they sign the agreement they are responsible for their actions and if they do not show up or simply leave, you send a copy of that agreement with the particular paragraph hi lighted to their telephone so there is no way back for them.

You may still experience a high staff turn over but at least you may retain them for a notice period, however you must watch the closely should they be predisposed to cause damage or insult your customers during the notice period

 

In the interim pay close attention to your current staff and if you notice a slowing down of the efficiency of any one of them that is when you sit them down with a friendly Thai person NOT yourself or any one related to you who you can trust and let him/her find out what is going on in their psyche causing them to leave, you can then take steps to correct the issues.

 

Trusting that you read this, I hope it is helpful to you 

 

Doesn't matter what a contract says if it goes against thai labor laws you will lose. The labor department is very strong.  

[huyuli]

Glad to see so many taking the side of the worker, although there are also good employers like those I have been lucky to have. 

[Bobbie Davies]

Thai time is not Western time. Always remember this Thai word “beua”, bored. Work too hard, beua. Work too long hours, beua. Tight work schedule beua. Not enough money for living expenses, clothes, a couple of beers every night, and to party with friends, beua. Relationship problems in their non work life beua. You hear this word there is trouble and guaranteed your gonna have a runner. Hire 7 employees to cut workload. Don’t work them overtime unless true emergency and ask them for it don’t demand. If overtime, beer. Chang speaks louder than anything else. Hire women only for the easiest of jobs. Don’t pay them lunch money, have one of them run to local carts to get everyone lunch you pay. Different ones every week. Don’t demand change back. Have once or twice monthly parties, beer and hotpot. Always use a Thai middleman or woman. Listen to what that middleman tells you. Have middleman be part of hiring process and ask their opinion of any future employees. Never, never, never directly supervise your workers, but do work with them if necessary and I mean the down and dirty work. If unable to do that, make yourself scarce unless you are bringing them something nice, see above Chang beer. There will still be turnover but it will be a lot less. Another good idea is to show respect to their family, they say they are going home to visit, never hurts to supply a gift for their mother and always take it in stride if they are late returning (Thai time), and why a couple extra employees.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Bobbie Davies
Clarity

[scorecard]

16 hours ago, batata said:

it sounds too much like 7Eleven, the girls there change on  weekly basis as the pay must be on the very low side, if you think you are paying them well, maybe it's just you thinking it and it's worth checking with other employees that still there... there is always a cause and an effect

Keep in mind that the 7/11 operator will be focused strongly on cost of operation and wages/benefits will be in their spotlight.

 

Also, there's likely to be policies of:

- 'How difficult are they to replace? Tangled with 'What hard to find skills are needed?

 

For an operation like 7/11 the answer to both points tangles together 'not difficult to replace'

 

Plus if an avaerage size store is short 1, even 2 staff for a few days just expect the remaining staff to work harder to process the customers (take the money) whilst ensuring there's zero/very little effect on total revenues per day/month. 

 

[brianthainess]

Yeh a falang I know runs a business, he is always on the staffs back expecting them to do it his/falang way. after a few weeks they leave.

[steven100]

6 hours ago, Bobbie Davies said:

Thai time is not Western time. Always remember this Thai word “beua”, bored. Work too hard, beua. Work too long hours, beua. Tight work schedule beua. Not enough money for living expenses, clothes, a couple of beers every night, and to party with friends, beua. Relationship problems in their non work life beua. You hear this word there is trouble and guaranteed your gonna have a runner. Hire 7 employees to cut workload. Don’t work them overtime unless true emergency and ask them for it don’t demand. If overtime, beer. Chang speaks louder than anything else. Hire women only for the easiest of jobs. Don’t pay them lunch money, have one of them run to local carts to get everyone lunch you pay. Different ones every week. Don’t demand change back. Have once or twice monthly parties, beer and hotpot. Always use a Thai middleman or woman. Listen to what that middleman tells you. Have middleman be part of hiring process and ask their opinion of any future employees. Never, never, never directly supervise your workers, but do work with them if necessary and I mean the down and dirty work. If unable to do that, make yourself scarce unless you are bringing them something nice, see above Chang beer. There will still be turnover but it will be a lot less. Another good idea is to show respect to their family, they say they are going home to visit, never hurts to supply a gift for their mother and always take it in stride if they are late returning (Thai time), and why a couple extra employees.

disagree .....  if they don't want to work .... there's the door    !

[Bobbie Davies]

Steven100, Are you serious? Perhaps by Western standards. But the complaint was that he couldn’t keep workers and how he could cut down on his attrition, not how he could totally disrespect them and treat them like sweat shop workers. Your attitude would send them right out the door, ALL of them. Their brand of Buddhism, face, importance of family, and a cultural desire to have fun and not beua are overriding factors. At any time, and I mean at any time a Thai man can and will become a monk and leave work in the dust. They are taught impermanence through Theravada Buddhism, and they believe it. If they can and do very often leave their romantic relationships because of beua, which can mean they are just stressed, what chance would a Farang who offers nothing to them have? Unless it is an opportunity to increase their status they are simply not going to stick around. We are not talking about University educated, or “professionals” who might be willing to work through inconveniences for the benefit of a Farang and not their own or their families’. I told my fiancé your answer and his response? Stupid Farang, beua.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Bobbie Davies
Clarity

[Hummin]

On 7/28/2022 at 9:42 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Wow, your friend must have a very good heart.

I am sure treating employees like family helps to keep them. But there are also downsides.

I know a women who own several bars. She hired many people from her "village" since maybe 20 years. And she is successful. But I also see that now a substantial part of the people who work for her, in her bars, since maybe 20 years, are just too old for that job. But she keep these people "working". Or more correct I should say she continues to pay them and she deliberately overlooks the fact that they basically don't work. I guess in part it is her good heart that she keeps these older people employed and paid. But in part it will also be the fact that if she would fire, even in a very nice way, the old and useless people from her business, that would be a problem. Because some of the young people who work for her are the children of those old people. So if she would fire the mothers that would influence the daughters to leave.

My point is that at some point then this is a family or a community but not much of a business anymore.

For someone who wants a business and not adopt a family this concept won't work.

He is social smart, and treats his staff fear, and also a bit psychological as well and listen to them when they need a word or two. He speaks thai as well enough to communicate with his staff. 
 

Another friend of mine had problems to keep his staff, and did not understand why, until someone had the nerve to tell him, his wife was the problem with her hi so attitude and treated the staff like her personal servants. 
 

If you run a business In Thailand you need to be able to pick up the small things on whats going on, and that involves speaking Thai. Im not talking about running a bar where your job most likely is to keep your customers happy, listening to them and socialize with them to create the bond that make them come back, who again happy to spend money in your bar to keep the girls happy. Most foreigner run bars is successful because of the owners effort, unless you have a good concept in a busy district and the owner do not need to expose him self to attract customers in the same way. 
 

I believe Thais and especially Isan people is not used to work full time, they are used to work seasons, and work little bit here and little bit there, like stray workers ???? A cultural thing

[thailand49]

Just my opinion from my own experience with my Thai son and his wife who both live with me. 

Although both started work two years ago both are responsible rain or shine go to work each day. I think LOL they realize easier to go to work than take care of our granddaughter which I and wife enjoying doing each day. 

They work Minimum wages,  in the S.S. system,  get medical but personally from what I have seen with them and majority of Thais in general the hours are too long 10-12 hours with one day off which need to be changed? 

This hurts the poor and the family unit I find it amusing that government seem find with 5 work days 8-9 hours day weekend off but do nothing for everyone else. 

If I was incline to open a business would do outside of the Thai box and provide incentive like a 401k only after they complete 1-2 years of service, flexible work hours,  being able to trade with other employees doing the same job,  flexible days off, depending on the type of job? Floating holidays which can be use before and after certain long holidays allowing them to stretch the time off. 

Be creative might be the key here. 

Good luck

 

[Artisi]

On 7/29/2022 at 10:05 AM, malt25 said:

"we pay the well above the norm compared to our competitors. We pay double time if they work on public holidays. "

You, like myself and a few others actually read the OP, many haven't and are just like the drovers dog - full of pizz and wind.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

Im not talking about running a bar where your job most likely is to keep your customers happy, listening to them and socialize with them to create the bond that make them come back, who again happy to spend money in your bar to keep the girls happy.

It helps a lot if the owner and/or mamasan knows how to handle the girls. It's also not just about money.

 

[n00dle]

On 7/28/2022 at 10:40 PM, mommysboy said:

Scant details about the nature of the job and working conditions makes it difficult to form an opinion.  I would say people are generally reluctant to quit well paid jobs unless there is something that really pushes them over the edge. 

I would say you haven't spent much time as an employer in Thailand

[Hummin]

41 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It helps a lot if the owner and/or mamasan knows how to handle the girls. It's also not just about money.

 

I guess the mamasan for these bars who still have mamasan, is important to make the girls feel  taken cared off and safe as well. I never understood the mindset of the girls, mamasan or the bar owners who is able to live and run business like that, but I guess the girls find some kind of freedom in thecwork if they are able to have free choices to choose their own customers. Be in control, but also have the safety a bar can give. 

Edited July 30, 2022 by Hummin

[Khyron]

I really liked the comment about how the work up north was seasonal, so the workers are as well. That kind of made sense, then I thought about the people in the village over the years.

My wife would be considered a workaholic, her brother is very driven as well, having two farms, one is almost 200k away from his home. that is the way they were brought up. A significant amount of the neighbors are hardworking as well, but the kids I see, holy <deleted>, no motivation at all. Most of our nieces and nephews have this hard-working gene, but most of the other kids........

 

[robin hood]

On 7/28/2022 at 4:41 PM, nightfox said:

Like anything in life, you get what you pay for. Give them a reason to stay by paying them a bit more then the average minimum wage and you will see your revolving door be less revolving. 

He already does read the post

[Ralf001]

1 hour ago, thailand49 said:

Just my opinion from my own experience with my Thai son and his wife who both live with me. 

Although both started work two years ago both are responsible rain or shine go to work each day. I think LOL they realize easier to go to work than take care of our granddaughter which I and wife enjoying doing each day. 

They work Minimum wages,  in the S.S. system,  get medical but personally from what I have seen with them and majority of Thais in general the hours are too long 10-12 hours with one day off which need to be changed? 

This hurts the poor and the family unit I find it amusing that government seem find with 5 work days 8-9 hours day weekend off but do nothing for everyone else. 

If I was incline to open a business would do outside of the Thai box and provide incentive like a 401k only after they complete 1-2 years of service, flexible work hours,  being able to trade with other employees doing the same job,  flexible days off, depending on the type of job? Floating holidays which can be use before and after certain long holidays allowing them to stretch the time off. 

Be creative might be the key here. 

Good luck

 

Labour laws stipulate 48hr week max 8hr a day, above 8hr is paid overtime.

[OneMoreFarang]

55 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I never understood the mindset of the girls, mamasan or the bar owners who is able to live and run business like that

What's the problem?

At least in the farang run business nobody is forced to work there. They want to work there - for whatever reason. And then it's just a place to bring buyers in sellers together. And sell drinks at the same time.

Personally I don't see the problem.

I remember a long time ago in a country far away I knew a girl from that business well. I asked her why she doesn't work in another job like a cleaning lady or something like that. Her answer: Do you think I am stupid? Working all day for the money which I can make by opening my legs for 30min?

She had a point there...

[Lemsta69]

I put the OP on ignore so I can understand why his staff keep leaving.

[Hummin]

13 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What's the problem?

At least in the farang run business nobody is forced to work there. They want to work there - for whatever reason. And then it's just a place to bring buyers in sellers together. And sell drinks at the same time.

Personally I don't see the problem.

I remember a long time ago in a country far away I knew a girl from that business well. I asked her why she doesn't work in another job like a cleaning lady or something like that. Her answer: Do you think I am stupid? Working all day for the money which I can make by opening my legs for 30min?

She had a point there...

I know, but I can't wrap my head around it even I possible could done quite good as lover boy for mature women in my younger age, as I preferred older women than younger 

[OneMoreFarang]

10 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I know, but I can't wrap my head around it even I possible could done quite good as lover boy for mature women in my younger age, as I preferred older women than younger 

I guess there is a difference if you select those women or if they select you and tell you what to do...

 

[Hummin]

35 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I guess there is a difference if you select those women or if they select you and tell you what to do...

 

I'm aware of that, but I was referring to if I had two choices, cleaning or give pleasure to somone in need, but I like to believe I would always manage to have other options than doing dirty work.

[thailand49]

1 hour ago, Ralf001 said:

Labour laws stipulate 48hr week max 8hr a day, above 8hr is paid overtime.

 

1 hour ago, Ralf001 said:

Labour laws stipulate 48hr week max 8hr a day, above 8hr is paid overtime.

Thanks for the information!

 

First, the numbers don't add up for me " 48hr week max 8hrs a day "  8 hours a day adds up to 40 hours a week.

Makes me wonder because if this is the law then there are lots of major players businesses in violation but being Thailand this shouldn't be of any surprise.

From my experience here in Pattaya, not going to try to use any other place but!  Aside from a government office job I've not heard of one Thai who I know or associated with in over 15 years that work for major delivery companies like Kerry, Flash, etc.. stores like Makro, Lotus, Big C,  Homepro, DIY, have only 1 day off and hours are much longer than just 8, they usually have to put in their own time for the lunch and break, even a major player like 7/11, they work 6 days a week!  Normal shifts are 10 hours, delivery my sons first job in office with Flash was 7am to 7pm, with one day off. Sure it had Overtime but it was only for a day off.

This is my experience first hand vs. the Law.

[Ralf001]

1 minute ago, thailand49 said:

 

Thanks for the information!

 

First, the numbers don't add up for me " 48hr week max 8hrs a day "  8 hours a day adds up to 40 hours a week.

Makes me wonder because if this is the law then there are lots of major players businesses in violation but being Thailand this shouldn't be of any surprise.

From my experience here in Pattaya, not going to try to use any other place but!  Aside from a government office job I've not heard of one Thai who I know or associated with in over 15 years that work for major delivery companies like Kerry, Flash, etc.. stores like Makro, Lotus, Big C,  Homepro, DIY, have only 1 day off and hours are much longer than just 8, they usually have to put in their own time for the lunch and break, even a major player like 7/11, they work 6 days a week!  Normal shifts are 10 hours, delivery my sons first job in office with Flash was 7am to 7pm, with one day off. Sure it had Overtime but it was only for a day off.

This is my experience first hand vs. the Law.

48/8 = 6 day week.

 

My work has an EBA with Labour office, we work 9 x 5.

 

 

 

[thailand49]

1 hour ago, Ralf001 said:

48/8 = 6 day week.

 

My work has an EBA with Labour office, we work 9 x 5.

My mental lapse I I was counting the lunch breaks wanted to edit but ran out of time. 

You are correct still feel the law is unfair since government don't work the same standard two days off. 

As noted many of the deliveries particularly F hours are close to 12.hours daily. 

 

 

 

[jack71]

6 hours ago, thailand49 said:

They work Minimum wages,  in the S.S. system,  get medical but personally from what I have seen with them and majority of Thais in general the hours are too long 10-12 hours with one day off which need to be changed? 

This hurts the poor and the family unit I find it amusing that government seem find with 5 work days 8-9 hours day weekend off but do nothing for everyone else. 

what you say is so true. we are guilty of working our staff long hours 6 days a week. I think we work them too hard and this is the reason why we have high turnover. 

[thailand49]

10 hours ago, jack71 said:

what you say is so true. we are guilty of working our staff long hours 6 days a week. I think we work them too hard and this is the reason why we have high turnover. 

?

I don't know if it is true or not and I'm not saying I'm better although retired I'm up by 6 every morning when I have projects or repairs I go hours without a break,  no lunch,  family think I was crazy.

On their first job both work close to 12 hours a day but in a office once work was distributed they relax on the phone. 

Then they got a job with a major food chain as noted 48 hours a week one day off.  Finally I got him alone man to man ask how was the job?  He said very different from his last hours shorter but non stop work,  2 breaks and 1 hour lunch which he could not leave the property.  I told him not all jobs are the same many major companies here in Thailand around the world are like that. He and his wife realized compare to their last job so far they have taken my advice and still with it. 

Maybe it is a bit of their culture the saying " Mai pen raining , Sabai "  then it is our western upbringing gun Ho style that many of us have that never go away?

I remember him growing up I assigned him a few chores when not in school tops 30 minutes after a while it was a little here a little there having a bad morning I laid into him and regretted it but he got the point.

Living here it can get frustrating to get things people to think my way is to stay open and be creative and it if the outcome is better.  Because That's don't like serious I remember going for my foot massages a lady use to call me serious before she knew my name. lol

[Iamfalang]

10 hours ago, jack71 said:

. I think we work them too hard

This sort-of means you know you do.

 

Why?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

more information.   open your heart to these people, don't withhold earnings.   Giving all the falangs a bad name.