Pelosi’s disastrous legacy

[Srikcir]

Oh boo hoo 2020 MAGATEERS. Pelosi is still in Congress as majority leader of the House and second in line to succeed POTUS. 

Great is the political envy.

[charmonman]

14 minutes ago, blazes said:

I absolutely agree that sleazebags of both parties (with all too few honorable exceptions) are interested only in lining their own nests, but other than Trump I am not aware of American politicians (surely there ARE some) who have actually done something to resist Chinese domination of Western economies.

Well, there’s the recently passed Chips and Science Act signed by Biden which is targeted at bringing silicon chip manufacturing back to the US and is largely targeted at Chinese chip manufacturers.

[The Hammer2021]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Politicians like Pelosi, Biden, McConnell are perfect poster children for the need for two things;

 

a/ Mandatory retirement ages

b/ Mandatory term limits

 

in the US goernment.    There is no reason on God's green earth why dinosaurs like this need to linger in Washington for decades.  They need to find gainful employment that doesn't involve sticking their collective snouts into the huge slopping trough of money known as Washington.

 

I propose: retirement at 70, or at the end of your current term of office if already 70. Max service of one re-election at each level. This would give a max possible time in Washington of 24 years.  Surely that is enough.

Why 70? 65 is a common  age for  retirement.  Pelosi sums up so much that is wrong  and  corrupt about America. She's  worse than Trump whom everyone  knew  to be rogue but she epitomises the root and branch corruption and privelege that is permanent in American society

[Hanaguma]

12 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Why 70? 65 is a common  age for  retirement.  Pelosi sums up so much that is wrong  and  corrupt about America. She's  worse than Trump whom everyone  knew  to be rogue but she epitomises the root and branch corruption and privelege that is permanent in American society

I was being nice. Plus a lot of politics is the "sitting on your <deleted>" kind of work.  And it is at least a starting point. 

 

Another thing I would be in favour of if it were workable is some sort of anti-nepotism law.  No political dynasties allowed.  Gotta skip a generation before going into politics again. So no Bush senior-junior.  No wife taking over a congressional district for her husband. No Bill-Hillary connection. No Trudeau Sr-Jr in Canada. It is too close to what dictatorships do to keep power in their own select families, like the Kims in North Korea. 

 

And no Pelosi in Congress, with her father being in congress and then Baltimore mayor, followed by her brother being mayor.  

 

Get some new blood in there!  I don't think the Founding Fathers ever envisioned a professional political class taking over the country.

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I was being nice. Plus a lot of politics is the "sitting on your <deleted>" kind of work.  And it is at least a starting point. 

 

Another thing I would be in favour of if it were workable is some sort of anti-nepotism law.  No political dynasties allowed.  Gotta skip a generation before going into politics again. So no Bush senior-junior.  No wife taking over a congressional district for her husband. No Bill-Hillary connection. No Trudeau Sr-Jr in Canada. It is too close to what dictatorships do to keep power in their own select families, like the Kims in North Korea. 

 

And no Pelosi in Congress, with her father being in congress and then Baltimore mayor, followed by her brother being mayor.  

 

Get some new blood in there!  I don't think the Founding Fathers ever envisioned a professional political class taking over the country.

I agree with the new blood comment. There should definitely be term limits for all elected positions. Only that will prevent the sense of entitlement which afflicts all those who hold political office too long.

 

Meantime, even in Trump's time there was no indictment of Pelosi for anything.

Edited August 4, 2022 by ozimoron

[Eric Loh]

41 minutes ago, blazes said:

I absolutely agree that sleazebags of both parties (with all too few honorable exceptions) are interested only in lining their own nests, but other than Trump I am not aware of American politicians (surely there ARE some) who have actually done something to resist Chinese domination of Western economies.

Think again. Trump pulled out of the TransPacific Partnership Agreement formed to resist the domination of China; left a void for China to form the RCEP. Trump will not stand up to authoritarian leaders like Xi, Kim and Putin. Will known fact. 

 

[candide]

19 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Trump seemed to be doing something, but he caved into Xi because he didn't want "his" stock market to go down. I supported Trump's early China stances and actions (btw, remember the export agreements that China signed and never delivered on?), including sanctions and tariffs. But it was all empty air when it came time to act and Trump ended up almost begging Xi to buy American soybeans. That said, Biden's failure to delist Chinese PLA stocks from American exchanges, ban things like Tik Tok, and let Meng Wanzhou go free from extradition show weakness. Biden is a weak and corrupt man. Trump is a corrupt bully with a huge yellow streak. Members of congress are on the PRC payroll too. There simply needs to be an accounting. As far as Pelosi, she did the right thing and has showed up China for what it is, a country going into hysterics over a 24 hour visit by an 83 year old woman. Pelosi comes out strong and Xi looks weak. Frankly, she boxed him in. Had xi done nothing, he loses. But doing what he has done with a blockade of Taiwan makes him look like an impulsive nutcase. I don't side much with Pelosi on domestic matters, but she was masterful in this case.

Biden did nothing? 

He's trying to revive the TPP, scratched by Trump, has created a military alliance against China, and also revived the Quad.

As mentioned by another poster, he also launched a plan to secure strategic supply chains, I.e. in semi-conductors.

 

Biden is acting at the strategic level, not just on short-term like Trump! Trumps tariffs have been predicted to be useless and have been useless. They had no impact on trade deficit with China. He did a few good things, though, such as banning Huawei from infrastructure deals.

[kingstonkid]

3 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Politicians like Pelosi, Biden, McConnell are perfect poster children for the need for two things;

 

a/ Mandatory retirement ages

b/ Mandatory term limits

 

in the US goernment.    There is no reason on God's green earth why dinosaurs like this need to linger in Washington for decades.  They need to find gainful employment that doesn't involve sticking their collective snouts into the huge slopping trough of money known as Washington.

 

I propose: retirement at 70, or at the end of your current term of office if already 70. Max service of one re-election at each level. This would give a max possible time in Washington of 24 years.  Surely that is enough.

The funny thing to term limit arguments is that there is already a system to set term limits in the U.S. as in most countries.  It is called elections.

If people feel tIme is up simply vote for someone else.

Nancy, Maxine and such get in because of the money they spread in the communities that they live.

People have to wake up to the world around them and take an interest.  It isno differnet in the U.S. Canada UK Aus or Thailand until people asy enough and take action at the polls nothing is going to change.

 

Nancy in this case is onthe right side considering that issues that the Biden family have with all the money they have made from China.

 

Joe has to kiss Xi ring everytime they talk.

 

Imagine Xi threatening Trump or bush with assasination.  

The U.S. used to be a power house in the world because it was self sufficient.  It inovated, it manufactured it grew enough food and had enough energy that it was not reliant on anyone else.

 

Taxation, rampant union rules, high costs and lack of incentives and now the U.S. is no better than the U.K. and  Thailand in it's dependence on other countries.

 

The U.S. has the energy resources internally to supply more people than any other country but the Greenies do not want to use it they would rather ther countries polute the air so that they can be on thehigh horse.

 

[candide]

9 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I was being nice. Plus a lot of politics is the "sitting on your <deleted>" kind of work.  And it is at least a starting point. 

 

Another thing I would be in favour of if it were workable is some sort of anti-nepotism law.  No political dynasties allowed.  Gotta skip a generation before going into politics again. So no Bush senior-junior.  No wife taking over a congressional district for her husband. No Bill-Hillary connection. No Trudeau Sr-Jr in Canada. It is too close to what dictatorships do to keep power in their own select families, like the Kims in North Korea. 

 

And no Pelosi in Congress, with her father being in congress and then Baltimore mayor, followed by her brother being mayor.  

 

Get some new blood in there!  I don't think the Founding Fathers ever envisioned a professional political class taking over the country.

So Trump employing his family, without any particular qualification, was bad. Good to know! ????

[wombat]

Taiwan is the American stick to prod the Panda.
Now the penis measuring is over and Pelosi has left, 
Taiwan citizens will be made to suffer for it.

[John Drake]

7 minutes ago, candide said:

Biden did nothing? 

He's trying to revive the TPP, scratched by Trump, has created a military alliance against China, and also revived the Quad.

As mentioned by another poster, he also launched a plan to secure strategic supply chains, I.e. in semi-conductors.

 

Biden is acting at the strategic level, not just on short-term like Trump! Trumps tariffs have been predicted to be useless and have been useless. They had no impact on trade deficit with China. He did a few good things, though, such as banning Huawei from infrastructure deals.

My guy good! Other guy bad!

[Hanaguma]

2 minutes ago, candide said:

So Trump employing his family, without any particular qualification, was bad. Good to know! ????

Yes, I agree completely.   Luckily they were at least halfways competent, but no reason for family to be in politics.  Would I be right in assuming you also agree about Pelosi then? Or the Clintons? The Bushes?

[swm59nj]

I’m not going to play politics. But since there are tensions with China.  There was no reason to personally go there at this time. She knew it would escalate things. Taiwan already knows the USA supports them. It might have been a gesture or spotlight move. 
But now she is gone.  And Taiwan is holding the bag. .  I don’t think what she did was fair to Taiwan.  

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I am 50 50. Stand up to China but the position is well known and no need to rattle the cage just for the sake of it. 

I am agreed. There are better ways for the US to confirm it’s’ support of Taiwan without stirring up more problems.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, swm59nj said:

I’m not going to play politics. But since there are tensions with China.  There was no reason to personally go there at this time. She knew it would escalate things. Taiwan already knows the USA supports them. It might have been a gesture or spotlight move. 
But now she is gone.  And Taiwan is holding the bag. .  I don’t think what she did was fair to Taiwan.  

The Taiwanese don't agree.

[placeholder]

37 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Why 70? 65 is a common  age for  retirement.  Pelosi sums up so much that is wrong  and  corrupt about America. She's  worse than Trump whom everyone  knew  to be rogue but she epitomises the root and branch corruption and privelege that is permanent in American society

For instance?

[candide]

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Yes, I agree completely.   Luckily they were at least halfways competent, but no reason for family to be in politics.  Would I be right in assuming you also agree about Pelosi then? Or the Clintons? The Bushes?

Well, at least, Pelosi, etc... got elected (ok, It's not necessary a proof of being competent). I don't think having dynasties dominating politics is a good thing, whoever is concerned. The problem is more how to legally do it, I.e. I am not sure it would be allowed by the U.S. constitution.

[ozimoron]

15 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Yes, I agree completely.   Luckily they were at least halfways competent, but no reason for family to be in politics.  Would I be right in assuming you also agree about Pelosi then? Or the Clintons? The Bushes?

How is coke head halfway competent?

[TKDfella]

Read this from the Gov. UK site; (headline) The UK and G7 partners have issued a statement on preserving peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait

I didn't think that the PLA would shoot the US Speaker Pelosi's plane down because they would have faced some pretty heavy stuff from US military already in the region. Also any action by the Chinese will only make Taiwan support more entrenched. We have all be given to understand that Pres. Xi intends to 'unify' during his office so I didn't really think that a visit by any western diplomat would make a lot of difference.

I did wonder where Thailand would stand (as well as other countries having close ties with China) and what would happen to the western residents should the worst happen.

[candide]

30 minutes ago, John Drake said:

My guy good! Other guy bad!

Well, you yourself admitted than Trump didn't achieve much.

It's not just my guy/other guy, It's a true issue.

China is playing the long-term strategic card. They have been slowly and consistently acting in the same directions years after years, 5-year plan after 5-year plan... Only a response at the same strategic horizon can be effective against them. Short-term and highly visible decisions such as tariffs are useless. Pelosi's initiative is highly visible and may have a short-term impact, but is also useless on long-term.

 

It's too early to assess whether Biden's initiatives will be successful or not, but he surely addresses the right strategic issues: trade and development, military, and industrial.

Edited August 4, 2022 by candide

[placeholder]

25 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

Nancy in this case is onthe right side considering that issues that the Biden family have with all the money they have made from China.

 

Joe has to kiss Xi ring everytime they talk.

Please share with us how much money Joe Biden has made in China.

 

And Joe has an interesting way of ingratiating himself with Xi:

 

Biden vows to defend Taiwan with US military if China invades

US president warns Beijing during first trip to Asia.

'When asked by a reporter if the U.S. would defend Taiwan if it were attacked by China, Biden responded: “Yes … That’s the commitment we made.'

https://www.politico.eu/article/us-would-intervene-militarily-if-china-invaded-taiwan-biden/

 

 

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, TKDfella said:

I did wonder where Thailand would stand (as well as other countries having close ties with China) and what would happen to the western residents should the worst happen.

This is the most important question for those of us living here. For years now, things have been on a slow boil making life increasingly more dangerous for Americans and Europeans in SE Asia. Had Xi managed to cancel Pelosi's trip indirectly through appealing to the Pentagon generals or Biden or directly through threats, our position would have been degraded. It may not have been a tipping point, but it would have been a landmark leading to one. I just hope that Pelosi has in fact united a bipartisan position against Xi in the US. BTW, let me hasten to add, that I like China and the Chinese. You could even say I'm smitten with their history. But their leader is a totalitarian dictator who wants to turn the world into a mirror image of his surveillance state. I don't want that.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, John Drake said:

This is the most important question for those of us living here. For years now, things have been on a slow boil making life increasingly more dangerous for Americans and Europeans in SE Asia. Had Xi managed to cancel Pelosi's trip indirectly through appealing to the Pentagon generals or Biden or directly through threats, our position would have been degraded. It may not have been a tipping point, but it would have been a landmark leading to one. I just hope that Pelosi has in fact united a bipartisan position against Xi in the US. BTW, let me hasten to add, that I like China and the Chinese. You could even say I'm smitten with their history. But their leader is a totalitarian dictator who wants to turn the world into a mirror image of his surveillance state. I don't want that.

While I agree with you about Xi's desires, where has Chinese influence in SE Asia made life more dangerous for Americans and Europeans in SE Asia? What evidence is there that they are being targeted? 

[howlee101]

12 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

I did wonder where Thailand would stand

like they do with any situation....sit on the fence and remain on the sidelines to see which side will benefit them.

[John Drake]

4 minutes ago, candide said:

Well, you yourself admitted than Trump didn't achieve much.

It's not just my guy/other guy, It's a true issue.

China is playing the long-term strategic card. They have been slowly and consistently acting in the same directions years after years, 5-year plan after 5-year plan... Only a response at the same strategic horizon can be effective against them. Short-term and highly visible decisions such as tariffs are useless. Pelosi's initiative is highly visible and may have a short-term impact, but is also useless on long-term.

 

It's too early to assess wether Biden's initiatives will be successful, but he surely addresses the right strategic issues: trade and development, military, and industrial.

Not only did Trump not achieve much, he essentially was counterproductive when everything was said and done. Whatever you think about "strategy," to me the most fundamental part of any US strategy should be to stop PLA linked Chinese state owned enterprises from raising capital in the US. And as for the Quad you allude to, I believe that began under Trump. Unfortunately. Because I have misgivings about India's role in it. I think India is as much or more of a threat to the US over the long term than China. I know I'd much rather live with Chinese than Indians any time. So I don't trust the Quad at all. Yes, Trump's discarding the TPP was perhaps the biggest mistake he made in foreign policy. And I hop Biden indeed is able to resurrect something through his Indo Pacific Economic Framework. I wish him success because I'm an American and it's in my personal interest that he succeed in it.

[StayinThailand2much]

3 hours ago, kokesaat said:

Nancy Pelosi is far from being the first politician to make an official visit to Taiwan (since 1976).  

Newt Gingrich, U.S. House Speaker then, visited Taiwan in 1997. Asked what he thought of China's recent threats, he called them a 'bluff'.

Edited August 4, 2022 by StayinThailand2much

[The Hammer2021]

52 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I was being nice. Plus a lot of politics is the "sitting on your <deleted>" kind of work.  And it is at least a starting point. 

 

Another thing I would be in favour of if it were workable is some sort of anti-nepotism law.  No political dynasties allowed.  Gotta skip a generation before going into politics again. So no Bush senior-junior.  No wife taking over a congressional district for her husband. No Bill-Hillary connection. No Trudeau Sr-Jr in Canada. It is too close to what dictatorships do to keep power in their own select families, like the Kims in North Korea. 

 

And no Pelosi in Congress, with her father being in congress and then Baltimore mayor, followed by her brother being mayor.  

 

Get some new blood in there!  I don't think the Founding Fathers ever envisioned a professional political class taking over the country.

No Kennedy dynasty

No mayor Daley in Chicago

[Luuk Chaai]

 

"Pelosi will go down in history as one of the greatest statesmen the US has even had. She has the guts to make to clear to China that Taiwan is and always will be a sovereign nation. That she does this at her age speaks volumes and condemns those weak politicians who don't have what it takes."

 

OR............ maybe she was   "sent" to create a diversion from the  Blundering Biden Buffoon show..  heck we all know the dems like to wage conflict

[earlinclaifornia]

Nancy for President

[John Drake]

12 minutes ago, placeholder said:

While I agree with you about Xi's desires, where has Chinese influence in SE Asia made life more dangerous for Americans and Europeans in SE Asia? What evidence is there that they are being targeted? 

Sometimes you have to look for subtle shifts in things. Other times, statements about racial solidarity (such as a certain government minister saying Asians are cleaner and Westerners are infection sources) make things more explicit. And the willingness and eagerness to jump on that bandwagon by certain segments, such as Thai conservatives siding with Russia and blaming the US for Ukraine, is something that would not have happened here 15 years ago--although it would have happened right after Vietnam 47 years ago.

 

More fundamentally, look at what is going on in education. "International schools" in Thailand used to mean instruction in English. Increasingly, it's Chinese now (or at least it was in 2020 when I last taught and gave talks at Thai universities, before the Chinese exodus). Entire departments of Chinese have been imported in the space of a few years. Funding and exchange programs had altered their targets to China as well. I could go on about this for pages. But unless you've been a teacher as well as an administrator in a Thai university, you would not be aware of the drastic changes that have occurred.