Death of a Friend

[brianthainess]

My friend passed away yesterday, I am the only one in Thailand left to organize everything but my Thai wife is helping me immensely, He is on an OZ PP, his sister is in New Zealand whom I'm in contact with and is in the process of obtaining a letter of Attorney for me to release his body for cremation, she will not be coming  . As with the Law in Thailand the Police are taking his remains to BKK at a very reasonable 4,500 b from Koh Chang same for return, My big Question does anyone know if there are fee's on top of this for the Autopsy ?? and according to the cops I will need to go to the OZ embassy to collect the letter of Attorney?? so if anyone has real info please let me know. Thanks in advance.

[ThailandRyan]

Sorry for the loss of your friend.  Do you know if he did a will while he was here?  Was there anyone who he might have been close with that can pop out of the woodwork and try and lay claim to anything he owned or possessed?  Just questions to ponder, and I am sure you already have. HAs anyone been in contact with his Embassy to also let them know.  They would be a good source of information as well.  Why an autopsy if he was elderly, did his death appear suspicious in nature?.  Please check through any records he may have kept once you are named the executor of his estate and ensure if he had a life insurance policy that it is conveyed to the next of kin.

Edited August 7, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[lopburi3]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Why an autopsy if he was elderly, did his death appear suspicious in nature?.

Believe any death outside of hospital requires (but no first hand experience).

[ThailandRyan]

13 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Believe any death outside of hospital requires (but no first hand experience).

You are possibly correct as it is a foreigner.  I have had Thai family members pass on and no autopsy was done, just a police report and that was all.

[brianthainess]

57 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Believe any death outside of hospital requires (but no first hand experience).

 This is my first hand experience. his sister is next of kin so it is up to her to get the Letter of Attorney First; he died of natural causes after being taken to hospital he has suffered from Motor Neuron Disease MND for 5yrs and lost all use of any muscles, it was the lungs and heart that eventually failed he lost the ability to write or use his hands years ago. I had to use his ATM every month for him, No known will.

Second; The Doctor HAS to report any death of a "falang'' to Police, who then came to the hospital, I then had to go to the cops also and report it where they took copies of his passport and no doubt report his death to his embassy. They gave me his PP back. 

They told me as I said in my OP I and my wife were his ONLY friends here,

It is THAI LAW that ALL Falang who die in Thailand are sent to BKK wherever or how ever they die. From my understanding it is the embassies that insist on this that is why it IS the LAW in Thailand anybody disputing this law is wrong. 

There is no way he could have insurance with MND. Hopefully when all is done and dusted I can write a full report to help others in the same position as me.

 R.I.P. Jeff 

[ThailandRyan]

37 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

 This is my first hand experience. his sister is next of kin so it is up to her to get the Letter of Attorney First; he died of natural causes after being taken to hospital he has suffered from Motor Neuron Disease MND for 5yrs and lost all use of any muscles, it was the lungs and heart that eventually failed he lost the ability to write or use his hands years ago. I had to use his ATM every month for him, No known will.

Second; The Doctor HAS to report any death of a "falang'' to Police, who then came to the hospital, I then had to go to the cops also and report it where they took copies of his passport and no doubt report his death to his embassy. They gave me his PP back. 

They told me as I said in my OP I and my wife were his ONLY friends here,

It is THAI LAW that ALL Falang who die in Thailand are sent to BKK wherever or how ever they die. From my understanding it is the embassies that insist on this that is why it IS the LAW in Thailand anybody disputing this law is wrong. 

There is no way he could have insurance with MND. Hopefully when all is done and dusted I can write a full report to help others in the same position as me.

 R.I.P. Jeff 

A life insurance policy could have been taken out years ago, be it term life or a Whole life policy which I have and is good until I am 92 at which time, if I am still alive, and die after that age the only amount that is available is what is called a Cash surrender value, which is very little compared to what the actual policy would pay out if death occurred during the period of coverage, much like a Term life policy would.  Most Term life policies are only good for a 10 year period.  Not sure what Policies folks can get here or from in Oz.

 

I wish you the best and again my condolences to you for the loss of a friend.

[CharlieH]

1 hour ago, brianthainess said:

 This is my first hand experience. his sister is next of kin so it is up to her to get the Letter of Attorney First; he died of natural causes after being taken to hospital he has suffered from Motor Neuron Disease MND for 5yrs and lost all use of any muscles, it was the lungs and heart that eventually failed he lost the ability to write or use his hands years ago. I had to use his ATM every month for him, No known will.

Second; The Doctor HAS to report any death of a "falang'' to Police, who then came to the hospital, I then had to go to the cops also and report it where they took copies of his passport and no doubt report his death to his embassy. They gave me his PP back. 

They told me as I said in my OP I and my wife were his ONLY friends here,

It is THAI LAW that ALL Falang who die in Thailand are sent to BKK wherever or how ever they die. From my understanding it is the embassies that insist on this that is why it IS the LAW in Thailand anybody disputing this law is wrong. 

There is no way he could have insurance with MND. Hopefully when all is done and dusted I can write a full report to help others in the same position as me.

 R.I.P. Jeff 

Well, in my personal experience, my UK ffiend was not taken to BKK he went to neighboring Phitsanoluk.

Thats my experience, however this was not recent so perhaps things have changed.

[hotandsticky]

3 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

You are possibly correct as it is a foreigner.  I have had Thai family members pass on and no autopsy was done, just a police report and that was all.

 

I was advised that it was not an automatic thing  -  if there were no suspicious/unusual circumstances then an autopsy was not required.

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, brianthainess said:

 This is my first hand experience. his sister is next of kin so it is up to her to get the Letter of Attorney First; he died of natural causes after being taken to hospital he has suffered from Motor Neuron Disease MND for 5yrs and lost all use of any muscles, it was the lungs and heart that eventually failed he lost the ability to write or use his hands years ago. I had to use his ATM every month for him, No known will.

Second; The Doctor HAS to report any death of a "falang'' to Police, who then came to the hospital, I then had to go to the cops also and report it where they took copies of his passport and no doubt report his death to his embassy. They gave me his PP back. 

They told me as I said in my OP I and my wife were his ONLY friends here,

It is THAI LAW that ALL Falang who die in Thailand are sent to BKK wherever or how ever they die. From my understanding it is the embassies that insist on this that is why it IS the LAW in Thailand anybody disputing this law is wrong. 

There is no way he could have insurance with MND. Hopefully when all is done and dusted I can write a full report to help others in the same position as me.

 R.I.P. Jeff 

 

 

Sorry to hear about the death of your friend.

 

It is not true that Farangs are 'sent to Bangkok'. In most cases (where a death has occurred in a hospital) the embassy's approval is required for release of the body for local cremation.

[brianthainess]

1 hour ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Sorry to hear about the death of your friend.

 

It is not true that Farangs are 'sent to Bangkok'. In most cases (where a death has occurred in a hospital) the embassy's approval is required for release of the body for local cremation.

So the doctor and police lied to me, I'll pass that on to them.

[hotandsticky]

26 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

So the doctor and police lied to me, I'll pass that on to them.

Just telling you the facts 

[Speedo1968]

1 hour ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Sorry to hear about the death of your friend.

 

It is not true that Farangs are 'sent to Bangkok'. In most cases (where a death has occurred in a hospital) the embassy's approval is required for release of the body for local cremation.

I understand that if a British person dies here who is not married to a Thai then a next of kin must authorize whoever is arranging the funeral and notify the embassy.   I am currently having to arrange this with my daughter in the UK and am using a separate Will for this.

[hotandsticky]

20 minutes ago, Speedo1968 said:

I understand that if a British person dies here who is not married to a Thai then a next of kin must authorize whoever is arranging the funeral and notify the embassy.   I am currently having to arrange this with my daughter in the UK and am using a separate Will for this.

Without that next of kin (to rely on) the Will is important if you want to have your wishes carried out. 

 

Mine just says that I wish to be cremated in the country in which I die. I had already discussed that with my daughters who had no desire for ashes etc to be repatriated.

[billd766]

I lost a good friend 10 days ago who lived near Udon Thani. Though he was not married to the lady who has lived with him for the last 15 or 20 years, he had made provision for her.

 

He had a lot of Facebook friends but a lot of Thai and farang friends too. My neighbour and my wife went and they have been there over a week. I stayed so that my wife could take the truck (he lived over 800km from us) plus our son is still at school (He was 18 on 1st August) so I am chief cook, bottle washer etc and I make sure that my younger neighbour gets him to school 15km away.

 

Foreigners dying in Thailand also have problems with their pension rights being passed on, joint bank accounts frozen etc. I used to have a list of people to contact, banks, pensions, immigration, families in the home country etc. The school boy excuse that the dog ate my homework is now replaced by the computer at my documents.

 

Does anyone have a list, preferably in .XLS as a starter to build on? Perhaps a topic or a forum could be created?

[CharlieH]

9 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I lost a good friend 10 days ago who lived near Udon Thani. Though he was not married to the lady who has lived with him for the last 15 or 20 years, he had made provision for her.

 

He had a lot of Facebook friends but a lot of Thai and farang friends too. My neighbour and my wife went and they have been there over a week. I stayed so that my wife could take the truck (he lived over 800km from us) plus our son is still at school (He was 18 on 1st August) so I am chief cook, bottle washer etc and I make sure that my younger neighbour gets him to school 15km away.

 

Foreigners dying in Thailand also have problems with their pension rights being passed on, joint bank accounts frozen etc. I used to have a list of people to contact, banks, pensions, immigration, families in the home country etc. The school boy excuse that the dog ate my homework is now replaced by the computer at my documents.

 

Does anyone have a list, preferably in .XLS as a starter to build on? Perhaps a topic or a forum could be created?

If someone collates the info, pm me and I will be happy to "pin it" in the appropriate forum for others to refer to.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Sorry to hear about the death of your friend.

 

It is not true that Farangs are 'sent to Bangkok'. In most cases (where a death has occurred in a hospital) the embassy's approval is required for release of the body for local cremation.

I find it peculiar that the embassy's approval is needed for the release of the body for local cremation. The do little or nothing for us while we are alive, so why would they care when we are dead? It just makes more paperwork for them and for our Thai families.

[billd766]

18 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

If someone collates the info, pm me and I will be happy to "pin it" in the appropriate forum for others to refer to.

Thank you.

 

I will dig a bit deeper into the bowels of my pc and hard drives to see what I can turn up with.

[lopburi3]

23 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I find it peculiar that the embassy's approval is needed for the release of the body for local cremation. The do little or nothing for us while we are alive, so why would they care when we are dead? It just makes more paperwork for them and for our Thai families.

Because they are charged with contact with next of kin (which often is in home country) and providing assistance to them regards remains.

[lungbing]

And cancelling the passport and probably informing the pension people to cancel that.

 

As regards joint bank accounts, according to my branch of Kasikorn, if my wife gives them a copy of my death certificate then the account will be changed to her name only.  We specifically asked this a year ago when I was there getting my bank statements and letter for my visa extension.

[Sheryl]

If an autopsy is done there will be a fee for that. But unless cause of death is unclear/suspicious an autopsy is not required and you should tell the police family goes not want and will not pay for one.

 

And unless there is a legal reason for autopsy (i.e. suspicious  death)  there is no reason to bring the body to Bangkok. It is NOT the law that this has to be done.  They do have to hold the body until Embassy authorizes release but that can be done at a lical government hospital morgue.

 

It is common for police to try to exploit these situations and to want to bring body for autopsy as they receive a kickback for this.  

 

I suggest you contact Dao Metcalf at Amar for asdustancr. She can handle everything including paperwork with Embasy and dealings with police at a very reasonable fee as well as arrange cremation/burial or whatever is desired. https://www.amarinternational.com/index.html

[billd766]

2 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Because they are charged with contact with next of kin (which often is in home country) and providing assistance to them regards remains.

Thank you.

 

Do you think that they will provide UK government assistancw to my Thai wife who is my Next of Kin?

[billd766]

2 hours ago, lungbing said:

And cancelling the passport and probably informing the pension people to cancel that.

 

As regards joint bank accounts, according to my branch of Kasikorn, if my wife gives them a copy of my death certificate then the account will be changed to her name only.  We specifically asked this a year ago when I was there getting my bank statements and letter for my visa extension.

 Thank you.

 

Is there much of a delay do you think?

 

[billd766]

18 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

If an autopsy is done there will be a fee for that. But unless cause of death is unclear/suspicious an autopsy is not required and you should tell the police family goes not want and will not pay for one.

 

And unless there is a legal reason for autopsy (i.e. suspicious  death)  there is no reason to bring the body to Bangkok. It is NOT the law that this has to be done.  They do have to hold the body until Embassy authorizes release but that can be done at a lical government hospital morgue.

 

It is common for police to try to exploit these situations and to want to bring body for autopsy as they receive a kickback for this.  

 

I suggest you contact Dao Metcalf at Amar for asdustancr. She can handle everything including paperwork with Embasy and dealings with police at a very reasonable fee as well as arrange cremation/burial or whatever is desired. https://www.amarinternational.com/index.html

Thank you for that information. When my wife and my neighbour get back from our friends cremation in Udon Thani we will sit down and have a good talk about what, when, where and how.

 

I will need to contact my UK bank, Wise, Plus Bangkok Bank and also Kasikorn Bank, and my 2 remaining pension providers about how to sort my wife's share of my pensions. 

 

I went down this road a few years ago with a friend on TVF who used to live in Jomtien. He moved to a small village outside Loei and we were to keep in touch, swapping details of what to do etc, and I have not heard from him since January this year. He was 84 or 85 and in poor health.

[hotandsticky]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

I find it peculiar that the embassy's approval is needed for the release of the body for local cremation. The do little or nothing for us while we are alive, so why would they care when we are dead? It just makes more paperwork for them and for our Thai families.

I agree 100% and they add no value whatsoever to the process 

 

Nevertheless, the 'rule' is that embassy sign off is required (at a cost) to release a body from the hospital.

 

I believe that where a death occurs at home/not in hospital then the Thai police must be advised within 24 hours.

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

I find it peculiar that the embassy's approval is needed for the release of the body for local cremation. The do little or nothing for us while we are alive, so why would they care when we are dead? It just makes more paperwork for them and for our Thai families.

A lit more to it I'm sure.

 

[lopburi3]

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

Thank you.

 

Do you think that they will provide UK government assistancw to my Thai wife who is my Next of Kin?

Not sure what service UK provides - US provides certificates of death that can be used as death proof for insurance/pension/bank matters in US to next of kin.

[hotandsticky]

10 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

 

Do you think that they will provide UK government assistance to my Thai wife who is my Next of Kin?

 

 

No.

 

 

What is that you might expect them to do?

 

If not already done, get a nomination form from occupational pension providers to set your wife up as beneficiary of any widow's pension. She is entitled anyway but it gets her 'on the books'. After your death the paperwork is a bit onerous and she will need help from a friend/executor. Individual circumstances vary but a Will covering the UK assets may be useful. Check with pension providers that they are prepared to make widows pension payments to a Thai bank account - some don't, JCB Pension Fund refused point blank and it was necessary for the widow to open a Wise account. 

[billd766]

12 hours ago, Sheryl said:

If an autopsy is done there will be a fee for that. But unless cause of death is unclear/suspicious an autopsy is not required and you should tell the police family goes not want and will not pay for one.

 

And unless there is a legal reason for autopsy (i.e. suspicious  death)  there is no reason to bring the body to Bangkok. It is NOT the law that this has to be done.  They do have to hold the body until Embassy authorizes release but that can be done at a lical government hospital morgue.

 

It is common for police to try to exploit these situations and to want to bring body for autopsy as they receive a kickback for this.  

 

I suggest you contact Dao Metcalf at Amar for asdustancr. She can handle everything including paperwork with Embasy and dealings with police at a very reasonable fee as well as arrange cremation/burial or whatever is desired. https://www.amarinternational.com/index.html

Thank you.

 

Is there a contact address on this sire for the Embassy. I have a vague memory of seeing it a while ago.

[billd766]

10 hours ago, nauseus said:

A lit more to it I'm sure.

 

But how much more and what is required is what I am looking for from the Embassy.

 

2 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Not sure what service UK provides - US provides certificates of death that can be used as death proof for insurance/pension/bank matters in US to next of kin.

 I am trying to find the embassy contact on the forum. I have a vague memory of it from a while ago.

 

I think that the last time I talked to the embassy proper was before they stopped issuing the pension letters and before they sold the place off.

 

I seriously doubt that they know how many Brits live in Thailand, their marital status, where we live or anything about us.

 

Yet they need to know when we die for paperwork purposes.

Edited August 8, 2022 by billd766
Added extra text

[pagallim]

15 hours ago, CharlieH said:

If someone collates the info, pm me and I will be happy to "pin it" in the appropriate forum for others to refer to.

I did a 'prompt' post some time ago re similar.