legal to sell land in this way?

[flipper2222222]

 

Here is the scenario

 

Using a Bricks and motor Real Estate agent is 15 years in business in the same location

 

Both seller and buyer using registered Thai lawyers

 

Buyer’s lawyer and buyer has seen copies all relevant documents, chanote, Tabian Bahn, and owner’s Thai ID, power of attorney documents, land office and treasury documents.

 

Seller is Australian

 

Buyer is Australian, partner is a Thai national (legally married in Thailand)

 

Owner on Chanote is Seller’s daughter , Thai National

 

Seller has power of attorney granted to by the daughter

 

Thai ID of land owner expires 19^th September 2022

 

Sale date is 12^th September 2022

 

buyer will purchase property using 

 

80% AUD$

20% THB

 

Seller, buyer, both lawyers and agent will be at the land office on the day of transfer of chanote, owner of land will not be there and is currently not contactable. Whereabouts unknown.

 

If anyone has any relevant experience in this area would be much appreciated if they can answer  the below questions. Would save me double guessing our lawyer. Just in case.

 

My questions are

1                  is the seller legally allowed to sell the property to us?

2                  Is it possible for the daughter to try and challenge in court the sale after the chanote has been signed over to my partner who is a Thai national?

 

Thanks in advance, and please not trolls…….only helpful advice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CharlieH]

Dont see how seller and buyer are Australian ? (Condo ?)

 

Property(land etc) needs to be owned by a THAI ! ?

(unless companies involved).

[AhFarangJa]

7 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Dont see how seller and buyer are Australian ?

 

Property needs to be owned by a THAI ! ?

(unless companies involved).

 

18 minutes ago, flipper2222222 said:

Buyer is Australian, partner is a Thai national (legally married in Thailand)

 

Owner on Chanote is Seller’s daughter , Thai National

It looks to me that both parties are Thai national Charlie.

 

[peterfranks]

12 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Dont see how seller and buyer are Australian ? (Condo ?)

 

Property(land etc) needs to be owned by a THAI ! ?

(unless companies involved).

Seller is actually the Thai daughter of the Australian, but since her whereabouts are not known, I doubt there is a power of attorney signed by her.

 

So how they gonna transfer the chanote?

[CharlieH]

3 minutes ago, AhFarangJa said:

 

It looks to me that both parties are Thai national Charlie.

 

As stated in OP..........

 

[Excel]

1 minute ago, peterfranks said:

Seller is actually the Thai daughter of the Australian, but since her whereabouts are no know, I doubt there is a power of attorney signed by her.

 

So how they gonna transfer the chanote?

Wouldn't trust any dodgy Thai lawyer either

[Liverpool Lou]

20 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Dont see how seller and buyer are Australian ? (Condo ?)

 

Property(land etc) needs to be owned by a THAI ! ?

(unless companies involved).

As stated in the OP, Charlie,

"Owner on Chanote is Seller’s daughter , Thai National".

 

Why are some quotes, such as that above, automatically bolded by the forum when copy and pasted?  The bolding isn't mine! 

[sungod]

5 minutes ago, Excel said:

Wouldn't trust any dodgy Thai lawyer either

Why not, how do you know the lawyer is dodgy? Do you consider all Thai lawyers dodgy?

 

Had a couple of great lawyers act for me over the years on land purchase/sales.

[flipper2222222]

9 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

Seller is actually the Thai daughter of the Australian, but since her whereabouts are not known, I doubt there is a power of attorney signed by her.

 

So how they gonna transfer the chanote?

we have seen the signed copies of the power of attorney.

 

that is the question does the power of attorney grant the power to sell the land and transfer the chanote  from Thai national to Thai national

[AhFarangJa]

3 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

As stated in OP..........

 

Agreed it does say that, (though not in such large font). However, it does also say that the seller is a Thai national, i.e. the daughter of the seller. However, we could banter the symantics around all day, but it does nothing to answer the question. As someone else has pointed out, a Thai lawyer is involved which would put doubt in my mind. My Wife and I recently sold one of our houses and land. Even though I signed a power of attorney I still had to go to the land office because there was a userfruct on the land in my name, which was not covered by power of attorney. I guess at the end of the day if they come out with a new name on the Chanote, and a receipt for transfer tax etc, that would hold up in a court. on the other hand, this being Thailand and the propensity for reams, and reams of paper for the slightest transaction anything could happen.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 minutes ago, flipper2222222 said:

that is the question does the power of attorney grant the power to sell the land and transfer the chanote  from Thai national to Thai national

Sort of depends on what the PoA states!

[AhFarangJa]

5 minutes ago, flipper2222222 said:

we have seen the signed copies of the power of attorney.

 

that is the question does the power of attorney grant the power to sell the land and transfer the chanote  from Thai national to Thai national

I would imagine if the wording on the power of attorney is for the land transfer / sale, then it should be legal.

[Excel]

Just now, AhFarangJa said:

Agreed it does say that, (though not in such large font). However, it does also say that the seller is a Thai national, i.e. the daughter of the seller. However, we could banter the symantics around all day, but it does nothing to answer the question. As someone else has pointed out, a Thai lawyer is involved which would put doubt in my mind. My Wife and I recently sold one of our houses and land. Even though I signed a power of attorney I still had to go to the land office because there was a userfruct on the land in my name, which was not covered by power of attorney. I guess at the end of the day if they come out with a new name on the Chanote, and a receipt for transfer tax etc, that would hold up in a court. on the other hand, this being Thailand and the propensity for reams, and reams of paper for the slightest transaction anything could happen.

The land department in my experience will insist that the actual owner listed on the Chanote is present to sign ( unless deceased in which a case a further process is required to establish ownership). Now who knows what will happen if dodgy lawyers get involved.

[sungod]

2 minutes ago, Excel said:

The land department in my experience will insist that the actual owner listed on the Chanote is present to sign ( unless deceased in which a case a further process is required to establish ownership). Now who knows what will happen if dodgy lawyers get involved.

Rubbish, the owner on the chanote does definitely not have to be there if POA is granted and correct paperwork prepared prior.

[flipper2222222]

3 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Sort of depends on what the PoA states!

the POA states (rough translation from google translate) that the seller (Australian Father) has the same power as the  owner (Thai national -daughter) on the said chanote with the correct address and the building that occupies the land and that any act that the father performs about the land or house would be the same as if if it had been done by herself.  

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, Excel said:

The land department in my experience will insist that the actual owner listed on the Chanote is present to sign ( unless deceased in which a case a further process is required to establish ownership). Now who knows what will happen if dodgy lawyers get involved.

The owner doesnt have to be there if they have given POA to someone, that's what POA is for.

[Excel]

Just now, Peterw42 said:

The owner doesnt have to be there if they have given POA to someone, that's what POA is for.

Not in my experience at the Land Department as I stated.

[Harry Black]

7 minutes ago, Excel said:

The land department in my experience will insist that the actual owner listed on the Chanote is present to sign ( unless deceased in which a case a further process is required to establish ownership). Now who knows what will happen if dodgy lawyers get involved.

No, definitely not the case.

[Harry Black]

2 minutes ago, Excel said:

Not in my experience at the Land Department as I stated.

They are leading you up the garden path, and you are concerned about 'dodgy lawyers!'

[Liverpool Lou]

6 minutes ago, flipper2222222 said:

14 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Sort of depends on what the PoA states!

the POA states (rough translation from google translate) that the seller (Australian Father) has the same power as the  owner (Thai national -daughter) on the said chanote with the correct address and the building that occupies the land and that any act that the father performs about the land or house would be the same as if if it had been done by herself.  

So you have the answer to your question!

[Excel]

3 minutes ago, Harry Black said:

No, definitely not the case.

Tied of arguing with the know nothings. I stated correctly "not in my experience" and that was based on my experience at Don Mueng Land Department.  So you and your pals just carry on giving people misleading information rather than factual advice.

[Peterw42]

45 minutes ago, flipper2222222 said:

My questions are

1                  is the seller legally allowed to sell the property to us?

2                  Is it possible for the daughter to try and challenge in court

1) Yes, properties are sold using a POA everyday.

2) No, not if everything is in order with the POA. Why would she be challenging in court if she has signed a POA to sell it ????

[Liverpool Lou]

26 minutes ago, Excel said:

Wouldn't trust any dodgy Thai lawyer either

Perhaps they've chosen not to use a dodgy lawyer?

[sungod]

Just now, Excel said:

Tied of arguing with the know nothings. I stated correctly "not in my experience" and that was based on my experience at Don Mueng Land Department. 

Nothing to argue about, as stated by multiple posters you are incorrect. The purpose of this thread was to give the OP correct information, we are correcting you. Sorry if you dont like it.

[Excel]

Just now, Liverpool Lou said:

Perhaps they've chosen not to use a dodgy lawyer?

If the lawyer has advised them that the sellor on the Chanote need not be present as the power of attorney  for AN Other will suffice, then most certainly that is a dodgy lawyer. Unless of course officials at the land department are induced to ignore their own rules perhaps. In that case problems could well arise in the future.

[Harry Black]

2 minutes ago, Excel said:

Tied of arguing with the know nothings. I stated correctly "not in my experience" and that was based on my experience at Don Mueng Land Department.  So you and your pals just carry on giving people misleading information rather than factual advice.

The only person giving misleading information is actually you. You are completely incorrect.

 

Us 'know nothings' seem to know a lot more than you in this case.

[Excel]

1 minute ago, Harry Black said:

The only person giving misleading information is actually you. You are completely incorrect.

 

Us 'know nothings' seem to know a lot more than you in this case.

????????

[Harry Black]

1 minute ago, Excel said:

If the lawyer has advised them that the sellor on the Chanote need not be present as the power of attorney  for AN Other will suffice, then most certainly that is a dodgy lawyer. Unless of course officials at the land department are induced to ignore their own rules perhaps. In that case problems could well arise in the future.

Keep digging, you are starting to look very silly now.

[KhunLA]

33 minutes ago, flipper2222222 said:

we have seen the signed copies of the power of attorney.

 

that is the question does the power of attorney grant the power to sell the land and transfer the chanote  from Thai national to Thai national

As long as the POA states so.  

 

That mirrors the exact selling of my first house/land here. I used POA (1st wife/divorced from) to sell house to another foreigner's wife.  Coincidentally, also did the payment, most of, USD to USD in our USA banks, with a we bit of THB at settlement.

 

All went smooth, no lawyers involved, just me & POA, wife of buyer & RE agent that I listed with, at the land office.  If land office accepts POA, then would imagine it's legal to use.

 

Ex-wife was not there or needed for anything.  That was done at Udon Thani.

[Excel]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

If land office accepts POA, then would imagine it's legal to use.

And that my friend is exactly the issue.