THE WEEK THAT WAS Lest we forget: Post-Covid there are still other serious viruses - like HIV - in Thailand

[webfact]

 

OPINION | by Rooster

 

Firstly, on behalf of ASEAN NOW Rooster would like to thank the many posters who dug deep in their pockets after we published a story about a 17 year old girl in Chainat who is living with HIV. 

 

Nong Jaa lives with her 79 year old granddad, her mum is dead and her dad in prison. She was infected with Human Immunodeficiency Virus in her mother’s womb. 

 

 

Most seriously, she has suffered stigma and bullying from her so-called friends and peers. Despite being dirt-poor she still has a dream to go to university and make a success of her life. 

 

Thank you to those who posted about their donations and I’m sure many who hid their light under a bushel. It’s heartwarming that we have a forum that cares not just about foreigners but Thai people.

 

Strangely, as far as HIV goes, Jaa is actually one of the lucky ones. She is clearly on ART(antiretroviral therapy that is widely available for free to Thai nationals in Thailand) which means she can look forward to a normal lifespan so long as she takes care of her health and persists with daily meds. HIV is a chronic but highly treatable condition these days.

 

Her case is a timely reminder that despite daily cases of Covid still being 30,000 or so it is not very serious for the vast majority of people, and even less so for those who have been jabbed and received boosters. On the other hand, viruses like HIV, if left untreated, can in time be fatal for the majority.

 

Latest UNAIDS figures in 2021 suggest that 520,000 people aged 15 and over have HIV in Thailand made up of 220,000 women and 300,000 men and just a couple of thousand children. 

 

The prevalence among the general population is about 1.2%, slightly lower in women and slightly higher in men. This means that at least one in a hundred people you see - next to you on the BTS, on the next table at the restaurant - are infected. 

 

 

The reality as NGOs point out is that many people do not know their HIV status. These, unlike Jaa, are the ones most at risk. They can lose their health and develop AIDS all because they are in denial or haven’t taken a test for free or 200 baht. 

 

People with HIV are everywhere, they are not only bar girls and gays, though their behavior if not protected can make them more vulnerable. Equally vulnerable are wives and girlfriends of men who frequent sex workers without condoms.

 

However, it’s important to note that anyone who is sexually active can become infected with HIV. 

 

In the mid 1980s fear about AIDS was rife in Thailand and many believed that the country with its huge sex industry both for tourists but especially for Thai men, was a ticking time bomb. In those days there was no treatment and getting HIV was seen as a death sentence. 

 

Rooster’s doctor at the time - a famous guy affectionately called Dr Dick who had a clinic on Sukhumvit - was puzzled as to why he’d had no HIV cases. Bangkok Post columnist Bernard Trink even called it a hoax, something that was disgraceful and ultimately ended with him being sidelined at the paper.

 

Anecdotal evidence suggested that bargirls who catered to foreigners were more likely to insist on condom wear, more likely to have customers who were better educated and who would comply with bargirl requests for safe sex. Indeed, many NGOs centered their campaigns on Patpong, Nana and Soi Cowboy handing out free condoms and believing they could make a difference there. 

 

As life saving drugs came in in the 1990s and were further developed after the turn of the century fears about the decimation of the sex industry subsided. Thailand’s health authorities also embarked on a public health plan that reached many with plenty of drugs produced locally by the GPO (Government Pharmaceutical Organisation). 

 

A key family planning and safe-sex advising minister even had his name associated with a Thai slang term for condom - the “Mechai”. 

 

Rooster, like many, was ignorant about HIV/AIDS. Young and carefree, I preferred not to think about it. What an idiot. 

 

Back in 2004 my international school was contacted by a lady who was just an ordinary middle class Thai woman. She wanted to talk to our older pupils in the sixth form to warn them about unprotected sex. She had HIV.

 

Because she couldn't speak English I was chosen to talk to her and translate when she appeared in a theater for what was an unforgettable afternoon. 

 

I hope it changed lives because for me it did. I needed to do research because the things she told me meant little - like CD4 or t-cells that fight infection. A site called thebody.com in the US was fascinating. Her overriding message was that while HIV was becoming treatable it was far better to avoid it in the first place. Our students' lives and attitudes were enhanced, it was a moving and worthwhile experience though I never kept in touch with the lady.

 

These days ART treatment with frontline drug cocktails means that most people who take the daily meds - on the hour once or twice a day - have what is called an undetectable viral load. This means that though it is known the person has the virus it is in such low quantities that their prognosis is, to quote a pun, very positive!

 

 

Indeed in 2012 something called the “Swiss Declaration” by a group of doctors declared that people with an undetectable viral load were not even infectious. This is now completely accepted - you can’t get HIV from an infected person on successful treatment. 

 

Numbers infected in Thailand continue to drop but NGOs warn of dangerous behavior particularly among youth who were not around in the 1980s.

 

The problem - and why Jaa who knows her status is luckier than many - is UNAIDS figures that suggest only 80% of HIV-ers in Thailand are on ART therapy despite it being free and available everywhere. The 20% that aren’t are in grave danger, not to mention the many more people in denial who have not even been tested. In my view everyone who is sexually active should get a test in Thailand. It is far better to know than remain in ignorance.

 

One of my best friends I shall call Dr D. He has specialized in HIV treatment at top Bangkok hospitals for 30 years. He has 400 regular patients, many of them foreigners. He’s proud to say that most of his patients look after their health with regular checks and adhere to drug regimens. His message is to know your status, if testing positive do something about it immediately, if not look after your health and protect yourself against HIV anyway. 

 

He told me that foreigners who must pay for their treatment in Thailand could get drugs for as little as $400  a year at a place called the Anonymous Clinic run by the Red Cross near Chulalongkorn Hospital. 

 

Thailand has no restrictions on entry to HIV-ers, unlike several countries around the world. The US effectively barred entry until the enlightened Barack Obama struck down some Bush era nonsense.

 

In Thailand there are laws in place to protect people’s anonymity and it is illegal to ask anyone to take a test for a job placement. Firms still do and should be reported. 

 

But while Thailand’s medical community and those aware of their HIV status can consider themselves enlightened, the kind of stigma, bullying and rejection felt not just by vulnerable children like Jaa but by many adults in Thailand, is deplorable. Although perhaps more prevalent in the villages than in a place like Bangkok, prejudice exists to this day and is often cited by NGOs in Thailand for stopping people getting tested or revealing their status if they actually catch HIV. 

 

My advice to my many readers whether you are sexually active or have seen better days, is to know your HIV status. It could be the best thing you’ve ever done. 

 

And also to spare a thought for people like Jaa who have been dealt a rough hand in Thailand for something that is far from their fault as is humanly possible. 

 

HIV-ers don’t need sympathy though Jaa’s poverty and struggles do. What HIV-ers need is understanding and acceptance.

 

And a complete end to pathetic stigma and ignorance. 

 

 

Update: Thai Rath reported late Thursday after just a day of the appeal that 948,000 baht had been donated. What a great result for a hard working and deserving young lady. Also issues of how the donations would be managed (by a committee of trustees) and the question of bullying at the school were addressed by teachers and the school director. 

 

 

There was no doubt about the biggest story in the Thai news this week. After Rooster’s plea last week to removal firms, Thailand’s Constitutional Court stepped up to the plate and temporarily suspended Prayut Chan-ocha as PM.

 

The court is still to decide later whether he has exceeded his eight year terms. Deputy PM Prawit Wongsuwan became caretaker. 

 

He took no time in settling in, mainly thanks to having accurate watches. 

 

Whether Prayut can continue will depend on the court ruling if his tenure started when he seized power in the 2014 coup or in 2017 when a new constitution came into force or even in 2019 after the general election.

 

Whatever - Thailand has had enough of this belligerent bully though replacing him with Prawit is a bit like preferring Satan over Jack the Ripper. 

 

 

The constitutional court has been much criticized for ruling against opposition parties but at least it’s a start and Thailand may yet get back on some semblance of a track towards real democracy. 

 

Though “soi3eddie”’s comment that “This could be truly as bad as a Thai soap opera” appealed to many especially with the prospect of Prawit or DPM Anutin “waiting in the wings to take control”.

 

 

Earlier there had been a protest at Government House - despite Prayuth believing in his own popularity I wonder why they needed to install huge containers and razor wire!

 

Fortunately Thailand was still keeping its sense of humor amid the political shenanigans. The RTP reminded the public not to get children to stand by the side of the road asking for “three beeps” from truckers. 

 

 

This is clearly a reference to the three fingers gesture from the Hunger Games trilogy that has been adopted by the democracy protesters. 

 

It had Rooster wondering if other things that come in threes like interesting sexual encounters or darts that come three in a bed, buses, or even misfortune might be banned. 

 

 

 

In Buriram the monks were behaving badly in threes - one set had 129 Ya Ba pills they claimed they needed to help them cut the grass because all the monks at the temple were past it. One older monk in Udon Thani came up with an even better excuse for getting plastered on Lao Khao (white spirit). He was not having one for the road but one for the hermit.

 

 

Apparent dead bodies caused huge stirs. One at a shrine that freaked the locals turned out to be a mannikin. But the best one washed up on Bang Saen beach according to The Daily Mail. It was a very realistic 20,000 baht sex doll that had the AN faithful go on an amusing “forum frolic” about blow up friends having gone AWOL on the eastern seaboard!

 

 

In international news former Malaysian PM Najib Razak is now enjoying congee in clink after his final corruption appeal was rejected. He was sentenced to 12 years for his role in the 1MBD scandal and this could become many more years when other cases are considered. His wife too faces jail.

 

 

In Texas a police chief accused of botching the response to the fatal shooting of 19 children in Uvalde was sacked. His lawyers called it an “unconstitutional public lynching” but parents begged to differ with some shouting “Coward!” in court.

 

In sports news Manchester United sensationally beat Liverpool to go above their great rivals and Rangers qualified for the group stages of the Champions League (along with Celtic!). 

 

In golf the PGA tour upped prize money at a dozen events to help fight the threat from the Saudi backed LIV Golf. 

 

Back in Thailand print media reported that the so called Gen Y - 22 to 41 year olds - spend most time on the Internet and do most selling and buying on the web. I know the feeling, I sometimes feel as though I am surgically joined to WWW. 

 

Most grisly crime of the week concerned an appalling double stabbing murder of a couple in front of their young child outside a hairdresser’s at a Pathum Thani Lotus. It was over a woman getting a too short cut. Incredibly - though perhaps not for Thailand - the salon owner was granted 500K bail. 

 

 

This man went equipped with a knife and while Rooster is always opposed to the death penalty I would not be surprised if that is what he got.

 

Rather alarmingly, the grown up daughter of one of his victims said she had faith in the Thai courts and the justice system.

 

In Nakhon Pathom a man who had an argument with his wife said he felt safe at the police station and asked if he could hunker down for the night.

 

He made the mistake of grabbing an officer’s gun and started shooting indiscriminately so it was no surprise that he became the latest in a  line of “judicial killings”.

 

 

Meanwhile a huge manhunt was underway in Khon Kaen for a drug dealer who shot a policeman from the ATPD. He’d better give himself up, I thought, or he’ll be the next.

 

 

Finally, it was announced that Bill and Melinda Gates’ foundation would be holding an International Family Planning Conference in Pattaya. 

 

This may be an opportunity for Bill to move on from his “hanging wires” holiday snaps of 2016 that prompted Prayut to start burying the cables. 

 

Just so long as he doesn’t go after other things hanging in Pattaya. Such as stomachs or heaven forbid…

 

Trouser snakes. 

 

Rooster

 

-- © Copyright  ASEAN NOW 2022-08-27

 

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[scubascuba3]

Not one mention of PrEP which can prevent people catching HIV, it's not publicised or sex workers encouraged to take it, a very poor response from Thailand. Girls I've talked to about it have never heard of it

[BostonRob2]

47 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Not one mention of PrEP which can prevent people catching HIV, it's not publicised or sex workers encouraged to take it, a very poor response from Thailand. Girls I've talked to about it have never heard of it

Yes, I might have mentioned this in the article but I disagree that Thailand's response in this regard is poor though it might not be as well publicized as can be. PrEP (Pre-Exposure Prophylaxis) is available for free in every government hospital nationwide. Private clinics including the one mentioned in the article also provide affordable PrEP to foreigners as well as Thais. 

 

Thanks for reading,

 

Rooster

[scubascuba3]

35 minutes ago, BostonRob2 said:

Yes, I might have mentioned this in the article but I disagree that Thailand's response in this regard is poor though it might not be as well publicized as can be. PrEP (Pre-Exposure Prophylaxis) is available for free in every government hospital nationwide. Private clinics including the one mentioned in the article also provide affordable PrEP to foreigners as well as Thais. 

 

Thanks for reading,

 

Rooster

It's not publicised in the biggest brothel in the world, Pattaya, girls know nothing about it, which hospital\s in Pattaya can give it to the girls for free? one's you are 100% sure on?

[BostonRob2]

22 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

It's not publicised in the biggest brothel in the world, Pattaya, girls know nothing about it, which hospital\s in Pattaya can give it to the girls for free? one's you are 100% sure on?

https://www.pulse-clinic.com/prep-in-pattaya

 

Pulse Clinic, South Pattaya is one. Or as I said, try govt hospitals in Pattaya.

 

Rooster

[Grusa]

????

[NightSky]

I know people who either have hiv or who know someone who does and unfortunately i believe it’s much more prevalent than publicized/estimated. The people who dont know they have it is much higher, because how can the authorities predict an accurate number. 
 

Also this hasn’t been mentioned but I know of cases being transmitted including hepatitis C via blood transfusions in Thailand government hospitals. This is either known about and ignored or poor blood testing practices are in place and not followed up on, you can research this through medical articles. (number of hep c cases in Thailand) 
 

Blood is in short supply for transfusions and online medical research papers reveal that the blood is often taken from prisoners and accident victims without being thoroughly tested before being transfused. 
 

A lot of hush hush still goes on in Thailand unfortunately. Thats just my opinion. 

 

 

[garet]

Good article, but we could do without your liberal virtue signalling as in:

 

"The US effectively barred entry until the enlightened Barack Obama struck down some Bush era nonsense."

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, NightSky said:

Blood is in short supply for transfusions and online medical research papers reveal that the blood is often taken from prisoners and accident victims without being thoroughly tested before being transfused. 

And even sold overseas, as was the case many years ago and to the detriment of UK hemophiliacs.

[BostonRob2]

8 hours ago, garet said:

Good article, but we could do without your liberal virtue signalling as in:

 

"The US effectively barred entry until the enlightened Barack Obama struck down some Bush era nonsense."

I loved Obama. Loved his speeches. He even, at his inauguration, had some positive words for us atheists.

 

The 22 year ban on people with HIV started during the fear years with Reagan and continued through Bushes and Clinton, who actually signed off on it I believe. Bush junior started the process of change, it is true, but it was ultimately struck down by Obama in 2009.

 

Thanks for reading and sorry you thought my comment was VS....

 

Rooster

 

 

 

[Peterphuket]

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't understand the medication against HIV is free for Thai.

Not for the foreigner? So the Thai Society don't care the foreigner brings the virus to their own people?

This way you give the opportunity to spread the virus further.

A bit strange thought in my opinion.

[scubascuba3]

25 minutes ago, Peterphuket said:

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't understand the medication against HIV is free for Thai.

Not for the foreigner? So the Thai Society don't care the foreigner brings the virus to their own people?

This way you give the opportunity to spread the virus further.

A bit strange thought in my opinion.

True, they don't do common sense very well, they just want to make foreigners pay, they haven't taken account that some foreigners can't or don't want to pay

[2009]

I don't think anyone has forgotten about HIV. It is likely the most feared disease that many people seem to think they are likely to get very easily.

 

STDs are likely the most blown out of proportion diseases around.

 

What people do forget about is the much more serious diseases, like cardiovascular diseases, cancers, organ failure, etc etc.

 

Even diabetes which is probably the most downplayed disease ever.

[Hummin]

9 minutes ago, 2009 said:

I don't think anyone has forgotten about HIV. It is likely the most feared disease that many people seem to think they are likely to get very easily.

 

STDs are likely the most blown out of proportion diseases around.

 

What people do forget about is the much more serious diseases, like cardiovascular diseases, cancers, organ failure, etc etc.

 

Even diabetes which is probably the most downplayed disease ever.

STDs is for us who is educated easy to prevent, not so easy for poorer uneducated people, or victims of sexual abuse. 

[chalawaan]

So heartwarming seeing Nong Jaa in tears of joy and gratitude!

 

No argument with the article, read the other way though, 99 of 100 people around  me don't have HIV.

On my 4th vax as of last week and I also understand most people recover from Covid too! Still not had Covid, but I did have a really bad cold last month (Southern Winter).

 

It's time to live life again, because eventually SOMETHING will get us shipped out to a big temple BBQ either way!

 

I know I have had exposure to HIV, but didnt sero convert. I also lived with a Thai woman 4 years into infection, based on her viral load, she went onto ART. To this day, and for all my sans rubber sins, I remain neg.

My "miracle" story is that about 19 years ago I presented in an Australian STI clinic with a body rash, this rash was for all intents and purposes the sign of HIV at the moment of sero convesion, the staff, who knew me and my history, went into a quiet panic, they tested me, but I was negative, they sent the bloods away, still came back neg, as did further bloods, the rash subsided that same day, I felt fine. Never had it before or since and I just was in Thailand a few days earlier being my usual rampant self. 

When my former live-in lady tested positive, from infection 4 years prior, the Thai Red Cross nurse explained that my negative status could be down to having a gene deletion, that makes just 1% northern europeans immune to the SE Asian HIV strain in particular. 

The gene deletion is thought to be an evolutionary response to the medieval plagues, think, herd immunity, but different. 

Heres the science behind the claims in this post. https://www.thebodypro.com/article/genetic-mutation-behind-hiv-cure

Edited August 28, 2022 by chalawaan

[Freed1948]

On 8/27/2022 at 6:08 PM, Grusa said:

????

Likewise.

[scubascuba3]

24 minutes ago, chalawaan said:

So heartwarming seeing Nong Jaa in tears of joy and gratitude!

 

No argument with the article, read the other way though, 99 of 100 people around  me don't have HIV.

On my 4th vax as of last week and I also understand most people recover from Covid too! Still not had Covid, but I did have a really bad cold last month (Southern Winter).

 

It's time to live life again, because eventually SOMETHING will get us shipped out to a big temple BBQ either way!

 

I know I have had the virus, but didnt sero convert. I also lived with a Thai woman 4 years into infection, based on her viral load, she went onto ART. To this day, and for all my sans rubber sins, I remain neg.

My "miracle" story is that about 19 years ago I presented in an Australian STI clinic with a body rash, this rash was for all intents and purposes the sign of HIV at the moment of sero convesion, the staff, who knew me and my history, went into a quiet panic, they tested me, but I was negative, they sent the bloods away, still came back neg, as did further bloods, the rash subsided that same day, I felt fine. Never had it before or since and I just was in Thailand a few days earlier being my usual rampant self. 

When my former live-in lady tested positive, from infection 4 years prior, the Thai Red Cross nurse explained that my negative status could be down to having a gene deletion, that makes just 1% northern europeans immune to the SE Asian HIV strain in particular. 

The gene deletion is thought to be an evolutionary response to the medieval plagues, think, herd immunity, but different. 

Heres the science behind the claims in this post. https://www.thebodypro.com/article/genetic-mutation-behind-hiv-cure

The HIV vaccine is elusive, sometimes it seems it's a year away then that sails past

[NightSky]

44 minutes ago, chalawaan said:

So heartwarming seeing Nong Jaa in tears of joy and gratitude!

 

No argument with the article, read the other way though, 99 of 100 people around  me don't have HIV.

On my 4th vax as of last week and I also understand most people recover from Covid too! Still not had Covid, but I did have a really bad cold last month (Southern Winter).

 

It's time to live life again, because eventually SOMETHING will get us shipped out to a big temple BBQ either way!

 

I know I have had exposure to HIV, but didnt sero convert. I also lived with a Thai woman 4 years into infection, based on her viral load, she went onto ART. To this day, and for all my sans rubber sins, I remain neg.

My "miracle" story is that about 19 years ago I presented in an Australian STI clinic with a body rash, this rash was for all intents and purposes the sign of HIV at the moment of sero convesion, the staff, who knew me and my history, went into a quiet panic, they tested me, but I was negative, they sent the bloods away, still came back neg, as did further bloods, the rash subsided that same day, I felt fine. Never had it before or since and I just was in Thailand a few days earlier being my usual rampant self. 

When my former live-in lady tested positive, from infection 4 years prior, the Thai Red Cross nurse explained that my negative status could be down to having a gene deletion, that makes just 1% northern europeans immune to the SE Asian HIV strain in particular. 

The gene deletion is thought to be an evolutionary response to the medieval plagues, think, herd immunity, but different. 

Heres the science behind the claims in this post. https://www.thebodypro.com/article/genetic-mutation-behind-hiv-cure

Thats good news for you. Just to make others aware in case they are unsure it takes time (I think it’s about 3-4 weeks correct me if wrong) after exposure to test positive so a next day test wouldn’t necessarily give a true test result. 
 

Also if others think they have been exposed, taking the meds as soon as possible, available from a sexual health clinic, for a short while can ensure the virus doesn’t establish itself.

[Boomer6969]

Don't understand the topic, we are definitely not "post covid" in Thailand. Everyone is still wearing a mask.

[scubascuba3]

9 minutes ago, NightSky said:

Thats good news for you. Just to make others aware in case they are unsure it takes time (I think it’s about 3-4 weeks correct me if wrong) after exposure to test positive so a next day test wouldn’t necessarily give a true test result. 
 

Also if others think they have been exposed, taking the meds as soon as possible, available from a sexual health clinic, for a short while can ensure the virus doesn’t establish itself.

Last time i checked there was also a 2 week test

[Purdey]

Was talking with a doctor at the Red Cross several years ago . He said it isn’t that easy to get HIV. Usually  it involved cuts where blood was intermingled. Anal sex usually causes small breaks in the membrane. Oral sex with someone who has small cuts in the mouth to pass it on (saliva won’t do it).

While free ART would be great in Thailand for foreigners as well as Thais, the cost in the USA is anywhere from 400 to 1,700 dollars a month. Better to stay here.

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

8 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

True, they don't do common sense very well, they just want to make foreigners pay, they haven't taken account that some foreigners can't or don't want to pay

If foreigners don't want to pay , they will probably die of AIDS

[scubascuba3]

5 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

If foreigners don't want to pay , they will probably die of AIDS

Yep and spread it to others

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Yep and spread it to others

If that's what they choose to do 

[geisha]

“ foreigners who can’t or don’t want to pay “. ? Anyone with an ounce of good sense and responsibility would either abstain from sex or pay the 400$ a year treatment. Cant pay, then you should not be in Thailand in the first place , and you should also abstain from sex.   400$ is the equivalent to a dollar a day, or one beer . No one should be allowed to play with other peoples lives. 

[simon43]

My 18 year old Thai niece died in my arms of untreated HIV and TB just a few months ago.  She and her family were unaware that the medication was free for Thai people.  Her local doctor who treated her (before I got involved), sold her a vitamin tonic for 1,000 baht as treatment....  The family were too ashamed because of the stigma of HIV that they didn't seek hospital treatment.  Even when I got involved, the doctors initially refused to treat her and also refused to provide me with a prescription for medication (without that prescription, the Red Cross in Bangkok would not sell me the required medication).  Finally, when I persisted, the girl was admitted to the local hospital and medication provided.  By then, it was too late... ????