Putin's NUCLEAR threat to the West: Vladimir warns Ukraine's allies he will use 'weapons of destruction',

[kwonitoy]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Unknown but based on war games such a scenario will lead to full blown nuclear warwith Russia, Europe, and North America destroyed plus nuclear winter.

 

But if lucky some heroes in the Kremlin will take care of Putin.

It's hard to predict, but the same folks that do these war game scenarios also predicted that Ukraine would fall in the first week of invasion.

Nobody knows untill it happens.

That said the west and the rest of the world has seen first hand evidence this last six months of the utter ineptitude of the russian military. It is unbelievable to think that the great russian bear that terrorized the world during the cold war can't supply it soldiers in a battle zone that is about as far from moscow to Karkov as Bangkok is to Vientiane.

The russian bear has been shown to be made of paper.

Their army is substandard in terms of weapons, soldiers training, supplies, maintenance and command structure.

Their artillery, which is the mainstay of their ground strategy has been seen to be up to WW2 standards

They are sourcing drones from Iran because they have no ability to build their own

In a war with a supposedly inferior opponent they cannot establish air superiority. Their airforce is a  paper one only

They cannot establish a naval blockade, their ships are antiquated and ill maintained due to the massive corruption.

 

So In light of what has happened why would anyone think that russia has maintained their nuclear force?

The USA spends 60 Billion dollars per year on upkeep just for nuclear missiles.

A warhead that has sat for 20 years is useless due to degradation of the fissible material.

 

putins threats are for russian public consumption, to show he's a hard man.

 

I'm sure the US has every launch site targeted for many months if not years

[BarraMarra]

I have stated this many times it's just a threat of a bully if Putin decides to use Nuclear Moscow will be reduced to cinders from a retaliatory strike from 1 of the UK's Trident Submarines that as we discuss this issue will be sat on a seabed in the North Atlantic ready to launch. Putin will not know where it is no one knows except our defense minister and the Captain of the Submarine.

[Myran]

Do it, and he'll be forever remembered as the guy who turned Russia into a pile of rubble.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Target the Kremlin while it is in full session, with Putin in attendance. Wipe out the entire support base for this insane war, in one fell swoop. 

 

This could be accomplished at any time. Now or later. Clean up the place. 

Followed shortly by the elimination of London and Washington. How is what you said going to "solve" anything?

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Myran said:

Do it, and he'll be forever remembered as the guy who turned Russia into a pile of rubble.

also Europe and the USA.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, kwonitoy said:

It's hard to predict, but the same folks that do these war game scenarios also predicted that Ukraine would fall in the first week of invasion.

Nobody knows untill it happens.

That said the west and the rest of the world has seen first hand evidence this last six months of the utter ineptitude of the russian military. It is unbelievable to think that the great russian bear that terrorized the world during the cold war can't supply it soldiers in a battle zone that is about as far from moscow to Karkov as Bangkok is to Vientiane.

The russian bear has been shown to be made of paper.

Their army is substandard in terms of weapons, soldiers training, supplies, maintenance and command structure.

Their artillery, which is the mainstay of their ground strategy has been seen to be up to WW2 standards

They are sourcing drones from Iran because they have no ability to build their own

In a war with a supposedly inferior opponent they cannot establish air superiority. Their airforce is a  paper one only

They cannot establish a naval blockade, their ships are antiquated and ill maintained due to the massive corruption.

 

So In light of what has happened why would anyone think that russia has maintained their nuclear force?

The USA spends 60 Billion dollars per year on upkeep just for nuclear missiles.

A warhead that has sat for 20 years is useless due to degradation of the fissible material.

 

putins threats are for russian public consumption, to show he's a hard man.

 

I'm sure the US has every launch site targeted for many months if not years

Russia hasn't, far as I know, been in a major conflict since they pulled out of Afghanistan. Any military degrades if not used as I can say from experience after western involvement in Vietnam war ended. The US on the other hand has been involved in almost continuous conflict since they went into Afghanistan.

 

You reckon they are not maintaining their nuclear capability?

 

 

[kwonitoy]

33 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Russia hasn't, far as I know, been in a major conflict since they pulled out of Afghanistan. Any military degrades if not used as I can say from experience after western involvement in Vietnam war ended. The US on the other hand has been involved in almost continuous conflict since they went into Afghanistan.

 

You reckon they are not maintaining their nuclear capability?

 

 

Judging by everything else, I'm sure the money was allocated to weapons maintenance, but where it went is anyone's guess.

Those yacht's in nice places are expensive to keep up

[heybruce]

10 hours ago, superal said:

Their is a strong probability that the Ukrainian forces are being led by Nato generals who will have formidable war tactics . This is evident at the moment with Ukraine forces making many gains . The assassination of Putin is most likely high on the list of targets and Putin will know that and he will be under top security and almost untouchable . Having said that there have been a few Arab leaders who were either captured or shot .

The support for Putin is falling within Russia and 1000s of protesters have been jailed . The protests have come from the fact that Putin is trying to recruit 300,00 reserves and families do not want their sons to die . Many Russians have fled the country to escape joining the war . We only know events that have happened . You can rest assured that there will be some big moves to come in the near future . Putin is aware of this and he must be stopped before he is in a corner . 

I think it's certain that Ukrainian commanders are asking for advice from NATO on how to proceed with the NATO weapons they have received.  This would go beyond basic instructions on use and maintenance and extend into how to adjust tactics to take full advantage of these weapons.  NATO has been practicing and planning with these weapons for years while they're completely new to Ukraine.  It would be foolish not to ask for recommendations.

 

I don't believe Nato generals are actually in command of Ukrainian forces.

[steven100]

9 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

How many civilians would be killed

You don't read posts very good do you .... where did I mention anything about civilians being removed?  You obviously don't understand what I meant when I said annihilate those murderers.  Specific targeted hit ... which the US is highly capable of. 

[Bkk Brian]

Some interesting scenarios and analysis here.

 

What would happen if Putin unleashed a nuclear strike on Ukraine?

 

Andrey Baklitskiy, an expert at the UN institute for disarmament research, noted that Putin threatened nuclear war "if the territorial integrity of our country is threatened", he added: "those statements go beyond the Russian nuclear doctrine, which only suggests Russian first use in conventional war when the very existence of the state is threatened."

"Putin adds 'territorial integrity' and [the] very abstract protection of people, independence and freedom ... coming from the person who has sole-decision making power regarding nuclear weapons, this will have to be taken seriously."

In other words, Putin could be laying a trap - if Ukraine continues its counter-offensive on occupied territory that Moscow declares "Russian" after sham referendums, then it could grant him a pretext for a nuclear strike.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/300695173/what-would-happen-if-putin-unleashed-a-nuclear-strike-on-ukraine?cid=app-iPad

[superal]

8 hours ago, kwonitoy said:

It's hard to predict, but the same folks that do these war game scenarios also predicted that Ukraine would fall in the first week of invasion.

Nobody knows untill it happens.

That said the west and the rest of the world has seen first hand evidence this last six months of the utter ineptitude of the russian military. It is unbelievable to think that the great russian bear that terrorized the world during the cold war can't supply it soldiers in a battle zone that is about as far from moscow to Karkov as Bangkok is to Vientiane.

The russian bear has been shown to be made of paper.

Their army is substandard in terms of weapons, soldiers training, supplies, maintenance and command structure.

Their artillery, which is the mainstay of their ground strategy has been seen to be up to WW2 standards

They are sourcing drones from Iran because they have no ability to build their own

In a war with a supposedly inferior opponent they cannot establish air superiority. Their airforce is a  paper one only

They cannot establish a naval blockade, their ships are antiquated and ill maintained due to the massive corruption.

 

So In light of what has happened why would anyone think that russia has maintained their nuclear force?

The USA spends 60 Billion dollars per year on upkeep just for nuclear missiles.

A warhead that has sat for 20 years is useless due to degradation of the fissible material.

 

putins threats are for russian public consumption, to show he's a hard man.

 

I'm sure the US has every launch site targeted for many months if not years

Your assumption that the Russians are not maintaining its nuclear weapons has no foundation and is based on the poor maintenance of its standard armaments . Nuclear weapons need attention and other countries intelligence would be monitoring that for both the weapons condition of  safety and the weapons potency and ability to perform its task . 

At the start of the war Ukraine were heavily outnumbered by both infantry and weapons and were being pushed back on all flanks until the NATO war Generals got involved .That has made a huge difference to the war . 

  

[connda]

Ex-President Dmitry Medvedev further clarifies with the following quotes yesterday:

"The Donbas (Donetsk and Luhansk) republics and other territories will be accepted into Russia."
"Russia has announced that not only mobilisation capabilities, but also any Russian weapons, including strategic nuclear weapons and weapons based on new principles, could be used for such protection."
Source: Rueters Sep 22

By weapons based on new principles my guess is he is referring to hypersonic missiles and hyersonic intercontinental ballistic technology.  Just a guess.
Scary stuff imho. This reinforces Putin's statement, "If the territorial integrity of our country is threatened, we will certainly use all the means at our disposal to protect Russia and our people," and it reinforces Russia's stated nuclear doctrine which asserts that attacks on Russian territories can be met with a nuclear response.  The only problem being is that once the nuclear genie is let out of the bottle, the Earth as we knew it ceases to exist for all of us except for the 0.01% of the elite population which will head underground to their respective national bunkers.   
 

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, connda said:

Ex-President Dmitry Medvedev further clarifies with the following quotes yesterday:

"The Donbas (Donetsk and Luhansk) republics and other territories will be accepted into Russia."
"Russia has announced that not only mobilisation capabilities, but also any Russian weapons, including strategic nuclear weapons and weapons based on new principles, could be used for such protection."
Source: Rueters Sep 22

By weapons based on new principles my guess is he is referring to hypersonic missiles and hyersonic intercontinental ballistic technology.  Just a guess.
Scary stuff imho. This reinforces Putin's statement, "If the territorial integrity of our country is threatened, we will certainly use all the means at our disposal to protect Russia and our people," and it reinforces Russia's stated nuclear doctrine which asserts that attacks on Russian territories can be met with a nuclear response.  The only problem being is that once the nuclear genie is let out of the bottle, the Earth as we knew it ceases to exist for all of us except for the 0.01% of the elite population which will head underground to their respective national bunkers.   
 

Ah just the narrative the Kremlin wants, losing on the battlefield so they have nothing else. Quick lets get the west and Ukraine to negotiate immediately by giving Putin what he wants. Jeez

[Bkk Brian]

+1 ????

 

"I notice that Russian diplomats flee almost as quickly as Russian soldiers."

 

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba delivers a memorable one-liner in response to Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov's hasty exit during a UN discussion on the Russian invasion of Ukraine

 

https://twitter.com/Biz_Ukraine_Mag/status/1573020668874182658

 

 

[farmerjo]

Which direction is the wind blowing today.

[connda]

It's ideologues who can only envision one side of a global crisis who become an existential threat to humanity. They take a side, dehumanize their 'enemies', and wail for blood.
At the risk of sounding like a globalist, its best to align to this side if you must choose a side: The brotherhood of mankind. 
It's when people grasp their nationalism and reject other races, ethnicity, and the domestic interests of other countries that the world goes completely off-balance and teeters on the edge of chaos.  This goes for the East, West, South, and places in-between.  Personally I watch this Geo-political dance and just shake my head.  Man has the capacity for infinite wells of compassion as well as well as bottomless pits of hatred and greed.  The latter are willing to genocide a few billion souls if it supports their interests and agenda.  Ideologues encourage their leaders to embrace the "Samson Option" and to pull the world down on their own heads to project and protect their own interests and hatreds.
It's simply sad and unnecessary.

[Phulublub]

9 hours ago, BarraMarra said:

I have stated this many times it's just a threat of a bully if Putin decides to use Nuclear Moscow will be reduced to cinders from a retaliatory strike from 1 of the UK's Trident Submarines that as we discuss this issue will be sat on a seabed in the North Atlantic ready to launch. Putin will not know where it is no one knows except our defense minister and the Captain of the Submarine.

Wrong.  On several levels. 

Nuclear submarines do not sit on the bottom

The seabed of the North Atlantic is, in any case, way way way below crush depth

In addition to the Captain, the XO, Navigator and OOWs all know where they are.

The Defence Minister most assuredly does NOT know where the submarine is.

 

That's enough debunking of an illediated keyboard wrrior for one day I think

 

PH (ex nuclear submariner)

[Bkk Brian]

Here is the reality:

 

Countries that refuse to take a side in Russia’s war in Ukraine are “complicit” with Moscow’s “new imperialism,” French President Emmanuel Macron told the U.N. General Assembly Tuesday in an impassioned speech.

“Those who are silent today are serving — whether against their will or secretly with a certain complicity — the cause of a new imperialism,” Macron said.

In some of his strongest comments since the beginning of the war, Macron said Russia’s aggression against Ukraine marked a “return to the age of imperialism and colonies” and said the world faced a choice between “war and peace.”

 

Perhaps a reminder also from Zelensky at his UN speech:

 

 

[Myran]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

also Europe and the USA.

If Russia's nuclear capabilities have been maintained in line with the rest of their forces, they'd be lucky to get a couple of hits in. Devastating, for sure, but not on the same scale as what would happen to Russia.

[Bluespunk]

4 hours ago, steven100 said:

You don't read posts very good do you .... where did I mention anything about civilians being removed?  You obviously don't understand what I meant when I said annihilate those murderers.  Specific targeted hit ... which the US is highly capable of. 

You don’t read posts too well do you.
 

I didn’t say you said anything about civilians. I asked how many you thought would be killed in an attack on Moscow.

 

Such attacks have a way of going wrong when a large group is targeted as you advocated from the safety of your keyboard. 
 

You said

 

”Even just last week when several high ranking generals sat with Putin in Moscow which was an opportunity missed. They could have destroyed that building in one hit with many targets inside.”

 

That would most likely involve killing many civilians and causing life altering injuries for many others. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Bluespunk

[Walker88]

The US has the capability for a targeted attack, but only in failed states like Afghanistan, Somalia, the tribal regions of Pakistan, or perhaps in areas quite close to borders of friendly nations.

 

There is zero chance the US could target putin while he is in russia. The russian people are going to have to do the wet work to take him out, and even that is difficult, because putin is paranoid and a coward, so few---other than his most trusted advisers---can get near him. It would take a highly coordinated effort by numerous folks who probably don't even trust each other.

 

It's possible someone close to him could turn, especially if that person tends to gain either substantial power or wealth. Frankly, that's all the world can hope for right now. Ideally it is someone like Naryshkin, who might have enough allies to pull it off. Absent toppling putin, I suspect we're in for a nuclear winter, at least in Ukraine. Folks in all major military nations are going to be on edge, which increases the possibility of a mistake that escalates into Armageddon.

 

If I was to make a guess, I would say putin is going to nuke Kyiv with a low yield nuke, which would eliminate the Zelenskyy govt and make Ukraine headless. The West will consider some sort of military retaliation, but will rationalize inaction by saying 'it's not worth ending life as we know just over Ukraine. We feel bad, but there's another 8 billion humans to consider. Instead, much harsher sanctions will be put into effect, and Europe is going to have a severe gas problem this winter.

 

russian people around the world will be attacked and slaughtered, even if they are anti-putin.

 

putin is crazy, but probably still rational enough to understand what the world's response would be, which is non-military. Evil tends to win, especially if the evil have nukes.

[spidermike007]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Followed shortly by the elimination of London and Washington. How is what you said going to "solve" anything?

I seriously doubt there would be much support for the Ukraine "special operation" without Putin or the Kremlin. Be gone with them all. 

[spidermike007]

13 hours ago, jvs said:

I can totally agree with your thinking but there is always a but,

The little Kremlin troll needs to be stopped but i a way that is acceptable for the rest of the world.Emotion should not be part of this,it is ok if a fellow comrad does him in but Nato or the US can not operate on the same level he does.We are not talking some little country far away where the CIA can do some covert operation.

Whatever happens it will not be forgotten for a very long time.

Lets just hope some one close to him will decide to become famous and kill him.

 

 

Where is a Lee Harvey Oswald when you really need him? Few would miss Putin. 

[Berkshire]

8 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

The US has the capability for a targeted attack, but only in failed states like Afghanistan, Somalia, the tribal regions of Pakistan, or perhaps in areas quite close to borders of friendly nations.

 

There is zero chance the US could target putin while he is in russia. The russian people are going to have to do the wet work to take him out, and even that is difficult, because putin is paranoid and a coward, so few---other than his most trusted advisers---can get near him. It would take a highly coordinated effort by numerous folks who probably don't even trust each other.

 

It's possible someone close to him could turn, especially if that person tends to gain either substantial power or wealth. Frankly, that's all the world can hope for right now. Ideally it is someone like Naryshkin, who might have enough allies to pull it off. Absent toppling putin, I suspect we're in for a nuclear winter, at least in Ukraine. Folks in all major military nations are going to be on edge, which increases the possibility of a mistake that escalates into Armageddon.

 

If I was to make a guess, I would say putin is going to nuke Kyiv with a low yield nuke, which would eliminate the Zelenskyy govt and make Ukraine headless. The West will consider some sort of military retaliation, but will rationalize inaction by saying 'it's not worth ending life as we know just over Ukraine. We feel bad, but there's another 8 billion humans to consider. Instead, much harsher sanctions will be put into effect, and Europe is going to have a severe gas problem this winter.

 

russian people around the world will be attacked and slaughtered, even if they are anti-putin.

 

putin is crazy, but probably still rational enough to understand what the world's response would be, which is non-military. Evil tends to win, especially if the evil have nukes.

The situation you describe is, unfortunately, probably more likely than not.  If Putin keeps his nukes within the confines of Ukraine, it would be difficult for NATO to retaliate in kind without provoking World War III.  BUT, it would be possible for Ukraine itself to retaliate within Russia with artillery of its own.  So perhaps it would be in the interest of both Ukraine and the west to arm the Ukrainians with long range missiles capable of significant damage within Russia.  No one would dispute Ukraine's right to retaliate if Putin employed nukes, even low yield, in Ukraine.   

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, connda said:

Personally I watch this Geo-political dance and just shake my head.  Man has the capacity for infinite wells of compassion as well as well as bottomless pits of hatred and greed. 

Seems to me the latter is winning for a few decades. Has there ever been a year without war somewhere on the planet since the 60's?

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Berkshire said:

The situation you describe is, unfortunately, probably more likely than not.  If Putin keeps his nukes within the confines of Ukraine, it would be difficult for NATO to retaliate in kind without provoking World War III.  BUT, it would be possible for Ukraine itself to retaliate within Russia with artillery of its own.  So perhaps it would be in the interest of both Ukraine and the west to arm the Ukrainians with long range missiles capable of significant damage within Russia.  No one would dispute Ukraine's right to retaliate if Putin employed nukes, even low yield, in Ukraine.   

You miss the ( IMO ) weak point in that argument, which is if Ukraine attacks Russia directly, it's likely to receive more than low yield nukes in return.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Walker88 said:

The US has the capability for a targeted attack, but only in failed states like Afghanistan, Somalia, the tribal regions of Pakistan, or perhaps in areas quite close to borders of friendly nations.

 

There is zero chance the US could target putin while he is in russia. The russian people are going to have to do the wet work to take him out, and even that is difficult, because putin is paranoid and a coward, so few---other than his most trusted advisers---can get near him. It would take a highly coordinated effort by numerous folks who probably don't even trust each other.

 

It's possible someone close to him could turn, especially if that person tends to gain either substantial power or wealth. Frankly, that's all the world can hope for right now. Ideally it is someone like Naryshkin, who might have enough allies to pull it off. Absent toppling putin, I suspect we're in for a nuclear winter, at least in Ukraine. Folks in all major military nations are going to be on edge, which increases the possibility of a mistake that escalates into Armageddon.

 

If I was to make a guess, I would say putin is going to nuke Kyiv with a low yield nuke, which would eliminate the Zelenskyy govt and make Ukraine headless. The West will consider some sort of military retaliation, but will rationalize inaction by saying 'it's not worth ending life as we know just over Ukraine. We feel bad, but there's another 8 billion humans to consider. Instead, much harsher sanctions will be put into effect, and Europe is going to have a severe gas problem this winter.

 

russian people around the world will be attacked and slaughtered, even if they are anti-putin.

 

putin is crazy, but probably still rational enough to understand what the world's response would be, which is non-military. Evil tends to win, especially if the evil have nukes.

I'm glad you included "If I was to make a guess" in that.

[ballpoint]

Looking at reports coming out of Moscow, and the Russian embassy in London, it seems that Putin was genuinely upset not to receive an invitation to the Queen's funeral, and I believe that it wasn't just purely coincidental that he made this statement following it.  To me, this sums up not just his whole state of mind (or lack of it), but the almost surreal approach to the war - whereby Russia is "allowed" to mindlessly bomb and terrorise any civilian target it wants to in Ukraine, yet nobody is allowed to touch a piece of Russian soil for fear of upsetting this deranged despot, who also happens to have a few thousand nuclear warheads at his control.  He thinks the world should go on, and Russia and he should be treated, just like normal.  The man truly has serious mental issues.  While it would never have done for the UK to invite him - which would legitimise his terrorist, atrocious regime while providing a huge bit of PR for him, (rather akin to inviting a sworn enemy of ones country for a shared holiday, and mutual love-in, in Singapore), in the back of my mind I can't help but wonder what would have happened had they done so?  Would he have been mad enough to accept?  And if so, would someone have nabbed him following the funeral?  

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You miss the ( IMO ) weak point in that argument, which is if Ukraine attacks Russia directly, it's likely to receive more than low yield nukes in return.

Its already attacked Russia directly, Belgorod: First Ukrainian airstrike on Russian territory.

 

It has of course also carried out some very successful attacks in Crimea, which Russia also claims is its territory

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Its already attacked Russia directly, Belgorod: First Ukrainian airstrike on Russian territory.

 

It has of course also carried out some very successful attacks in Crimea, which Russia also claims is its territory

Would those attacks not have occurred before Putin threatened the nuclear option?

Game has changed, and for all we know, Putin is looking for an excuse to use nukes.