PayPal no longer available to foreigners in Thailand

[OneMoreFarang]

10 minutes ago, MikeN said:

Did you get a COVID vaccination here ? If you did then try the 13 digit number on your certificate, it has worked for a few other cases that needed a 13 digit Thai ID. I am sure PayPal doesn’t have access to the Interior Ministry’s computer to check if the number is legit, it just needs 13 digits.

Thanks, I entered that number and didn't get an error.

But then come more steps with identifying myself with my bank app which (it seems to be) has to be confirmed with a Thai ID card and picture in the bank app. Strange.

My Thai bank app works fine. But obviously the bank has my passport number and no Thai ID number.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, happy me said:

7 hours ago, Celsius said:

 

You do realize this has absolutely nothing to do with PayPal.

But it does, because PayPal chose not to allow other proof of ID recognition. 

It does not.  Thai ID was the only ID considered as acceptable by the government regulations, PPT had no alternative.

[trevoromgh]

Many years ago I setup my own Kasikorn Bank account because they have a good online system and are English language friendly (in most cases).  One of the options available to KBank account holders is a facility known as a 'K Online Debit Card' which gives you a card number which you can use to pay for online purchases from Lazada etc.  You get no physical card for your wallet just the number to use.  I seldom use it as I prefer to pay 'cash on delivery' usually but it can be useful if the supplier does not do COD.  I presume most of the other Thai banks offer a similar facility so may be worth investigating as an alternative to Paypal perhaps?

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, IamNoone88 said:

It is impossible to reach them [PP].

Easy if you try.  02 787 3409

[kimamey]

4 hours ago, Na Fan said:

This is the exact same thing that has happened with Uber.

 

Ban foreign companies and then create a local one to take its place and make billions.

 

Guarantee you that that will happen.

That's what I thought but if you can still use Payonner (USA) and Skrill (UK) then I'm not so sure. Only saw the name Payoneer afew days ago but I used Skrill a few times some years ago when it was Moneybookers.

 

It looks more plausible with Uber though. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by kimamey

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, Thungrat said:

Anyone still using paypal is a fool. Bitcoin is the only solution.

Brilliant sarcasm.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, samtam said:

My ID number (Pink, I'm not Thai), was accepted, but there are other hurdles

Your "pink" ID was accepted on the form but unfortunately your registration wasn't so it's sort of irrelevant to the application.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, monkfish said:

They could manually verify accounts if they wanted.

How do you know that they could do that?

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, monkfish said:

They could manually verify accounts if they wanted to but they don't.

How do you know that is the case?

[aussienam]

Perhaps this would also affect digital nomads and expats here running online businesses whilst in Thailand and having their payments for transactions sent to a Thai account. A way to avoid tax as most probably don't declare their income sources here as not registered Thai businesses.

 

That's the risk those run and Thai government knows there's tax evasion. Like so many other governments around the world doing the same with reigning in tax evasion.

 

For those affected, it may mean opening a bank account in another country PayPal accepts, with lax tax laws and law enforcement, then using WISE or similar FOREX to shift funds.

PayPal is a huge drawcard for online businesses. 

 

Others of course use crypto exchanges if clients agree to pay this way. 

 

Money laundering into Thailand is massive.  Those crooks using PayPal as an option will just change tactics.  

Edited November 11, 2022 by aussienam

[Liverpool Lou]

28 minutes ago, MikeN said:

Did you get a COVID vaccination here ? If you did then try the 13 digit number on your certificate, it has worked for a few other cases that needed a 13 digit Thai ID. I am sure PayPal doesn’t have access to the Interior Ministry’s computer to check if the number is legit, it just needs 13 digits.

Then the next step requires NDID authorisation that requires a Thai national ID number.

[GroveHillWanderer]

28 minutes ago, MikeN said:

Did you get a COVID vaccination here ? If you did then try the 13 digit number on your certificate, it has worked for a few other cases that needed a 13 digit Thai ID. I am sure PayPal doesn’t have access to the Interior Ministry’s computer to check if the number is legit, it just needs 13 digits.

Full verification to use Paypal Thailand going forward certainly does need more than just a 13 digit number. As several people have already pointed out, it requires you to be registered with the NDID system.

 

You can do this with your online banking app or by going to your bank branch but in either case, to be accepted into the NDID system it requires a Thai national ID issued to a Thai citizen only.

[Liverpool Lou]

30 minutes ago, JayClay said:

("In order to comply with the regulations, only those with a registered business account would be able to use PayPal to send and receive money")

 

Not only is this information apparently incorrect, it also gives no indication of why a business account opened by a foreigner can't be used.

"it also gives no indication of why a business account opened by a foreigner can't be used".

It does.  The reason is that government regulations require the business account registrant to have a Thai national ID card.

[monkfish]

3 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

How do you know that is the case?

Because the Law would never require or force a Financial company to use a private company in this case National Digital Co., Ltd for account verification I mean what if that company were to close down?

[Liverpool Lou]

Just now, monkfish said:

10 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

How do you know that is the case?

Because the Law would never require or force a Financial company to use a private company in this case National Digital Co., Ltd for account verification I mean what if that company were to close down?

"Because the Law would never require or force a Financial company to use a private company in this case National Digital Co., Ltd for account verification..."

Really?  How come it did, then?

[samtam]

11 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Your "pink" ID was accepted on the form but unfortunately your registration wasn't so it's sort of irrelevant to the application.

Yeah. I didn't bother to pursue the NDID registration, because I assumed it would preclude non Thai ID cards. And I barely use Paypal, so it's not a big deal to me. I can't even remember why I opened a Paypal account, or when I last used it. Having Thai debit cards for Thai online transactions, and international cards for anywhere else, plus online bank transfer facilities covers all that I require now. Besides, if I recall correctly Paypal's transaction fees are high.

[Bangkok Barry]

51 minutes ago, monkfish said:

Yes I have received Emails from Paypal no problem there

But what I mean is I have never received Emails from Paypal "stated very clearly" why they have chosen to only use the NDID system for account verification.

Have you asked them?

[monkfish]

5 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"Because the Law would never require or force a Financial company to use a private company in this case National Digital Co., Ltd for account verification..."

Really?  How come it did, then?

It didn't! Paypal is just using the services of the private company National Digital Co., Ltd for account verification.

[Caldera]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

Regulatory changes aimed at combating money laundering mean that the services offered by PayPal are no longer available to foreigners in Thailand and may even be out of reach for many Thais.

"Regulatory changes" is just PayPal's excuse. They've simply been inept at working out a feasible procedure with the regulator.

 

TrueMoney and DeeMoney, on the other hand, also had to revise their KYC process due to those very changes. They did that in a way that still allows foreigners to use their services (!) - you just need to supply additional documents to satisfy the new requirements.

 

It's shameful that a well-established global player such as PayPal failed to find competent staff in Thailand that is able to cut through those minor bureaucratic challenges. What else will they screw up post transition?

[pepi2005]

Bitcoin fixes this.

 

Permissionless, direct p2p transactions. No need for banks or anyone else. An increasing number of vendors already accept Bitcoin - and one can take them anywhere in the world, without needing to exchange anything. If anyone wants to rant about 'volatility': Bitcoin has been less volatile than the stock market this year (!). Things are changing. If one's smart enough to buy a stash now, during a low, the 'volatility' will most likely just move one up in stored value. But yeah, feel free to continue to feed centralized and authoritarian institutions like banks or remittance systems are.

 

[monkfish]

2 minutes ago, Caldera said:

"Regulatory changes" is just PayPal's excuse. They've simply been inept at working out a feasible procedure with the regulator.

 

TrueMoney and DeeMoney, on the other hand, also had to revise their KYC process due to those very changes. They did that in a way that still allows foreigners to use their services (!) - you just need to supply additional documents to satisfy the new requirements.

 

It's shameful that a well-established global player such as PayPal failed to find competent staff in Thailand that is able to cut through those minor bureaucratic challenges. What else will they screw up post transition?

Exactly Paypal Thailand would have you believe they have no choice but to close down foreigners accounts but there are other options to verify accounts as with TrueMoney and DeeMoney but they just can't be bothereed,

[Liverpool Lou]

7 minutes ago, monkfish said:

14 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"Because the Law would never require or force a Financial company to use a private company in this case National Digital Co., Ltd for account verification..."

Really?  How come it did, then?

It didn't! Paypal is just using the services of the private company National Digital Co., Ltd for account verification.

As required by the government according to all reports and explanations provide by PPT reps.   Where are you getting your information that the information provided by PPT is wrong?

[malibukid]

9 hours ago, ukrules said:

I can quite literally feel the hate.

Well done paypal for preventing me from having a few thousand Baht available online for easy use.

 

I'm sure this change will do absolutely zero to 'save the world' from the usual excuses of money laundering and preventing terrorism and make many thousands of people hate the company even more than they already do.

I never had this kind of problem with Bitcoin. It just works and doesn't care who you are or where you are.

Their crooks in the outrageous seller commissions they charge anyway.  

[pepi2005]

7 minutes ago, Caldera said:

"Regulatory changes" is just PayPal's excuse. They've simply been inept at working out a feasible procedure with the regulator.

Good riddance there of Paypal. It's a 'woke' company, ready to freeze the accounts of people who dare to speak up against governments or who are otherwise deemed not 'wanted'. It can happen overnight, to anyone. Not reliable, and expensive. Take control over your wealth, convert it into a good store of value (gold or rather Bitcoin as it's easily transferrable over the Internet, directly p2p) and keep it in your very own wallet that you have 100% control over. Creating and holding a wallet is 100% free in Bitcoin, and transactions only cost pennies when done over its Lightning Network (and only cents to single-digit dollar amounts when done on the base layer itself, even when it's millions ???? ). Take control over your money, don't let companies treat you like a toddler.

[monkfish]

17 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

As required by the government according to all reports and explanations provide by PPT reps.   Where are you getting your information that the information provided by PPT is wrong?

It just can't be possible the Thai Government would force a Fintech company to use the services of a private company for account verification. Now if that's what PPT is telling you then I am not surprised they've botched this up. In fact it's been a mess since the beginning of the year when they 1st said only registered companies could have accounts.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by monkfish

[scorecard]

7 minutes ago, pepi2005 said:

Good riddance there of Paypal. It's a 'woke' company, ready to freeze the accounts of people who dare to speak up against governments or who are otherwise deemed not 'wanted'. It can happen overnight, to anyone. Not reliable, and expensive. Take control over your wealth, convert it into a good store of value (gold or rather Bitcoin as it's easily transferrable over the Internet, directly p2p) and keep it in your very own wallet that you have 100% control over. Creating and holding a wallet is 100% free in Bitcoin, and transactions only cost pennies when done over its Lightning Network (and only cents to single-digit dollar amounts when done on the base layer itself, even when it's millions ???? ). Take control over your money, don't let companies treat you like a toddler.

Why do you say it's a 'woke' company?

[ukrules]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

So what are the options for us? I recently logged in to my PayPal account and they tell me I have to enter my Thai ID card number. I am not Thai, so I don't have that number.

I seem to recall a similar Thai only scenario just a year or two ago, it was the same excuse back then as well - Thai ID card number only.

[gtm2k]

The real reason is the inability do KYC on foreigner owned accounts at scale. 

No one in their right mind would ever use PayPal for laundering money!

[lopburi3]

1 minute ago, ukrules said:

I seem to recall a similar Thai only scenario just a year or two ago, it was the same excuse back then as well - Thai ID card number only.

This is the same thing - it was in the future then and unknown what requirements would be but to get ready.

[Jonathan Swift]

9 hours ago, ukrules said:

I can quite literally feel the hate.

Well done paypal for preventing me from having a few thousand Baht available online for easy use.

 

I'm sure this change will do absolutely zero to 'save the world' from the usual excuses of money laundering and preventing terrorism and make many thousands of people hate the company even more than they already do.

I never had this kind of problem with Bitcoin. It just works and doesn't care who you are or where you are.

And bitcoin is the method of choice for scammers and cybercriminals worldwide. Don't blame paypal. Thailand's new regulations made it impossible for paypal to function as it should. Thailand's concerns are legitimate. There are certainly many other options if you put your mind to it. For example you can use the debit card from your home country to make withdrawals in baht from any ATM here. You can use the credit card from your home country for most purchases. I've been here 10 years, I have two banks in Thailand and I use Wise for incoming transfers. I have 2 checking accounts and 2 VISA/debit cards for them. It actually sounds like the real problem is your own money management. You are the problem. So do some homework and come up with a system that works for you. You're in Thailand, you have to be adaptable to whatever comes down the road, and it WILL. Everything changes, the world is in a state of constant flux. So quit whining about trivial things. As a matter of fact, paypal has its ways to cheat you on cash transfers, they undercut the exchange rate, hidden fees, etc. I used them maybe 3 times. And their transfer service, Xoom, are horrible. Everyone is better off here without paypal.