General Questions Related To Condo Purchase

[Laphroaig27]

Hello and thanks to anyone that wants to take a stab at some of these.

 

How do I check if the title is clear? Visit land and juristic offices. Will both offices give me letters? Is there anything else I can or should do to guarantee a clear title?

 

If I am doing a cash deal do I need a lawyer? Seems all property sold as is bc good luck getting old owner to pay for faulty xyz later.

 

I will not do a contract as I may wish to back out any time depending on what's learned / currency. I like the place a lot but another will come along. I will though still need some form of sales reciept or does the chanote serve as such?

 

*If the owner wants to put a lower price for tax purposes is there any issue legal or financial that weakens me (or later sale)? I'd like to pay some of the price in cash as well so this could help me I presume?

 

As I understand it if the sales price is too low then the land office will simply use their own tax table.

 

The deal will include a realtor. What sort of assistance at the land office might I expect if any?

 

It's underhanded perhaps but I want to make an offer to the owner. I'm ok with going thru the realtor but I want to be certain the owner gets the offer. What about communication to sideline the realtor removing $$ and lowering price?

 

The front door is quite scratched up. Who's responsible for doing ?? to it (refinishing, painting, anodized plate perhaps) ? Condo, owner, me.

 

Can I add deadbolt, change lock? Condo office question.

 

Can I add some sort of extension safety bar to the balcony railing? How about in the bedroom which would require drilling into the wall? I understand you don't know about the particular condo but in general.

 

Is there usually renovation rules like each project must be completed in XX days?

 

How difficult is it to add electrical sockets?

 

How to hang large, small pictures on cement walls?

 

Drilling in walls? Pictures, TV, speaker, entertainment center. Adding in shower a 'senior/handi bar' (drilling into tile and screwing in the bar which must withstand weight/pulling).

 

How much should it cost to paint 45-47sqm?

 

How much labor, materials for contemporary molding for living and bed rooms.

 

Is there any way to check the window sealing?

 

My guess is parking spaces are not assigned in most condos. Is it possible to sell my parking sticker/s or whatever assuming they are annual?

 

If some of the deal is in cash I'd expect buyer seller go to bank where 300k+ can be counted by machine? Land office prolly has one but if this is money not going toward official sale price maybe not.

 

Expect any crazy add on fees, costs? It's at worst 1% for transfer for me correct? NO sinking fund on 2nd hand. I will ask about any large assessments coming.

 

Refinishing the standard flooring. Apply (dark) stain to match door jams.

 

Is it possible to apply wood or another laminate on top of kitchen cabinetry and closet doors which appear to be Formica like

 

Anyone care to guestimate cam fee on Rhythm condos 10-12yo? Seems well maintained. Might I be looking at 40? Fair?

 

Lots of random stuff here. Thanks.

[OneMoreFarang]

I will try to answer some of your questions:

 

About the lower price: The land office will set a higher price if they think it is too low.

 

About the assistance from the property agent: Some know exactly what they do and are helpful, others know nothing. Personally I hired someone experienced who I trust to make sure things are fine.

 

About your door and other repairs. If you buy it you own it. You can change it and pay for it.

There are often condominium rules about certain, from outside visible, things. I.e. if you want to change the windows the condominium management has to agree. Probably similar to the front door, etc.

 

About holes in the walls: There is no easy answer. If a wall is part of the structure and reinforced concrete you need a hammer (i.e. Bosch, Hilti) - a normal drill won't do the job. But some walls are (hollow) bricks or light bricks and the drilling might be a lot easier.

 

About electrical work: Some units are horrible, with cables in cement in the walls, and crazy colors which don't make any sense. If you are lucky there are pipes and it is possible to change/add cables.

IMHO the most important rule is: Don't make any assumption. If there are i.e. green and blue and red cables maybe they are used for this, and maybe 1/2m away they are used for something else. Don't expect any logic!

 

Codos have rules when people can work (which days, time), when it's allowed to make noise, which lift(s) can be used at what time, etc.

 

Drilling in tiles can be done, with special drills.

 

About cost, let's say for paint: If you buy the paint and hire a guy who does the work by himself then that should be the cheapest option. If you hire a contractor then he will hire a painter and you pay more.

Material and quality of work is always an issue. If you hire Somchai and he did a bad job don't expect from him that he does it again. And don't expect from him to buy new paint for you, etc. If you have a good constructor then he is responsible for the job. If a painter does a bad job the contractor should/will hire another person to do it again without any extra cost for you.

 

About all your questions about your building: I suggest ask the management or maybe a foreigner who is part of the committee.

 

I think most important for you: Only because others did ABC in building D all this might be different in your building. And for buying property and extra costs there are, as far as I know, no fixed rules. It's up to you what you agree with the seller. Don't assume to do it the "usual way". There is no such thing.

 

 

 

[scubascuba3]

No problem with having an agreement in writing to purchase the condo just don't pay a deposit, as if info comes to light later you might want to pull out

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, Laphroaig27 said:

How do I check if the title is clear? Visit land and juristic offices. Will both offices give me letters? Is there anything else I can or should do to guarantee a clear title?

A sale will not go through if there is something wrong with the title. If there is a mortgage, a dispute, a divorce etc, then the sale wont happen at the land office. You get your name on an unencumbered title deed, Or there is no sale.

 

1 hour ago, Laphroaig27 said:

If some of the deal is in cash I'd expect buyer seller go to bank where 300k+ can be counted by machine? Land office prolly has one but if this is money not going toward official sale price maybe not.

Cash etc doesnt need to be actual bank notes, you can do an online transfer, cashiers check etc. 

 

1 hour ago, Laphroaig27 said:

Expect any crazy add on fees, costs? It's at worst 1% for transfer for me correct? NO sinking fund on 2nd hand. I will ask about any large assessments coming.

At its best its a 1% transfer fee (1% of what the land office says its worth). There are 3-4 taxes and fees, and who pays what is completely up for negotiation. Lots of sellers will want 50/50 on all fees and taxes, and that can run 5% and over

 

As for renovations, prices etc, you can do whatever you want to the inside of the condo and prices can be anything from cheap to expensive, depending on finish, personal choice etc.

Anything on the outside of the condo, balcony rail, outside of door, visual etc, usually falls under the condo blocks responsibility and rules.

[Laphroaig27]

42 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

At its best its a 1% transfer fee (1% of what the land office says its worth)

So, the sale price is irrelevant in tax? 1% that's total? I'd thought I'd read it was two?

 

So, with my Thai wife and visit to land office and juristic condo office before sale I should have a clean title in hand or none at all?

 

Need their be a letter from the condo association about the foreign quota? This begs another question - what documents do I need present to land office? Passport, FET, ?

[Laphroaig27]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

No problem with having an agreement in writing to purchase the condo just don't pay a deposit, as if info comes to light later you might want to pull out

Thank you. I assume it will be in Thai and I also don't want it translated. I need the THB to go back plus 2b to 38 so I'm waiting.

[Laphroaig27]

Apologies,

 

Anyone?

 

The chances of getting 1-10% off asking price? 7.5% would make me really pleased to purchase the unit.

 

Agent involved

[scubascuba3]

43 minutes ago, Laphroaig27 said:

Apologies,

 

Anyone?

 

The chances of getting 1-10% off asking price? 7.5% would make me really pleased to purchase the unit.

 

Agent involved

If the condo is worth less offer less, seller can accept or not

[scubascuba3]

47 minutes ago, Laphroaig27 said:

Thank you. I assume it will be in Thai and I also don't want it translated. I need the THB to go back plus 2b to 38 so I'm waiting.

Can be Thai or English, mine was English. You easily translate if in Thai using Google lens app.

 

You also need your name in Thai so get that finialised before you go to land office

[Laphroaig27]

2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

If the condo is worth less offer less, seller can accept or not

Well, that's rather subjective isn't it? I think it's full valued 375k less than asking and yes I'll try and knock it down but I doubt the owner will sell especially with agent commission and taxes.

 

Curious. People that have negotiated a number of condos might have a feeling.

[Laphroaig27]

3 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

your name in Thai so get that finialised before you go to land office

I'll just bring my marriage certificate.

[scubascuba3]

4 minutes ago, Laphroaig27 said:

Well, that's rather subjective isn't it? I think it's full valued 375k less than asking and yes I'll try and knock it down but I doubt the owner will sell especially with agent commission and taxes.

 

Curious. People that have negotiated a number of condos might have a feeling.

how can people have a feeling if they don't know the exact condo you're talking about, no one knows if its under or over valued

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, Laphroaig27 said:

So, the sale price is irrelevant in tax? 1% that's total? I'd thought I'd read it was two?

 

So, with my Thai wife and visit to land office and juristic condo office before sale I should have a clean title in hand or none at all?

 

Need their be a letter from the condo association about the foreign quota? This begs another question - what documents do I need present to land office? Passport, FET, ?

Yes, transfer fee is 2%, but usually its 50/50 buyer/seller so you would be paying 1%. As I said above, there are other taxes and often the seller will want you to pay 50% of those other taxes. (all negotiated prior to going to land office, and usually written into some sort of purchase agreement/sales contract).

You wouldn't be visiting the condo office for anything to do with the title, the seller has to get a document from the condo office (showing condo is part of foreign quota and fees are up to date) to bring to the land office.

Documents you need would be passport and FET, and of course a cashiers check. Documents the seller needs is the letter from condo office, chanote.

[Laphroaig27]

10 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes, transfer fee is 2%, but usually its 50/50 buyer/seller so you would be paying 1%. As I said above, there are other taxes and often the seller will want you to pay 50% of those other taxes. (all negotiated prior to going to land office, and usually written into some sort of purchase agreement/sales contract).

You wouldn't be visiting the condo office for anything to do with the title, the seller has to get a document from the condo office (showing condo is part of foreign quota and fees are up to date) to bring to the land office.

Documents you need would be passport and FET, and of course a cashiers check. Documents the seller needs is the letter from condo office, chanote.

Thank you for that. I've no interest in paying the owners taxes lol. Non starter. Appreciate the heads up. Most condos I see it's just transfer 50/50 but I'm sure there will be plenty of miscommunication and drama.

 

It's the obligation on condo office to issue the letter. Do those take a day, week, month?

 

With a copy of chanote can we search at land office? Will they give us a letter the title is clear?

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, Laphroaig27 said:

Apologies,

 

Anyone?

 

The chances of getting 1-10% off asking price? 7.5% would make me really pleased to purchase the unit.

 

Agent involved

You can get any amount off the price, it comes down to what you offer and what the seller accepts. Asking price means nothing properties can, and do, sell for way below stupid asking prices. I bought a house earlier this year, it was advertised for2.8m and I offered 2.2m and seller said yes.

Agents don't say yes or no to an offer, the seller does. Agents would probably rather see a property sell for any amount rather than no sale. 

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, Laphroaig27 said:

Thank you for that. I've no interest in paying the owners taxes lol. Non starter. Appreciate the heads up. Most condos I see it's just transfer 50/50 but I'm sure there will be plenty of miscommunication and drama.

 

It's the obligation on condo office to issue the letter. Do those take a day, week, month?

 

With a copy of chanote can we search at land office? Will they give us a letter the title is clear?

Depends on the block, some do the letter immediately, others could take weeks.

If you have a copy of the chanote, then you can check the title is clear yourself, its written on the back of the chamotte. The past owners, dates it changed hands, any mortgages etc are written there.. 

[OneMoreFarang]

50 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

how can people have a feeling if they don't know the exact condo you're talking about, no one knows if its under or over valued

And even if they know exactly the unit and the building and lots of other details, I don't think there ever is something like a clear value. What is the value based on?

As far as I see the current value is what people are willing to pay for it now. If your neighbor sold exactly the same unit for price X that doesn't mean the price of your unit is price X - especially if nobody is interested to pay that price.

[OneMoreFarang]

18 minutes ago, Laphroaig27 said:

I've no interest in paying the owners taxes lol. Non starter.

Let's say you buy a unit for 5 million and you have to pay all fees, let's say (to make it easy) 500k.

Or you buy the same unit for 5.5 million and the seller pays all the fees.

What's the difference? In both cases you pay in total 5.5 million.

 

I recently bought a unit and the seller suggested he pays all the fees. I liked that idea because it gave me a clear fixed price.

But at the end of the day, it's obvious that my money was used to pay for all those fees.

[scubascuba3]

29 minutes ago, Laphroaig27 said:

Thank you for that. I've no interest in paying the owners taxes lol. Non starter. Appreciate the heads up. Most condos I see it's just transfer 50/50 but I'm sure there will be plenty of miscommunication and drama.

 

It's the obligation on condo office to issue the letter. Do those take a day, week, month?

 

With a copy of chanote can we search at land office? Will they give us a letter the title is clear?

If the seller is Thai it's quite possible there is no foreign quota left, the juristic office can tell you if any foreign quota left and how much % is your one

[scubascuba3]

14 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And even if they know exactly the unit and the building and lots of other details, I don't think there ever is something like a clear value. What is the value based on?

As far as I see the current value is what people are willing to pay for it now. If your neighbor sold exactly the same unit for price X that doesn't mean the price of your unit is price X - especially if nobody is interested to pay that price.

Yes hard to know, hopefully someone has an idea based on others sold and ball park value, i kinda know the value of condos where i live, i know if they're asking too much

[Laphroaig27]

14 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

If the seller is Thai it's quite possible there is no foreign quota left, the juristic office can tell you if any foreign quota left and how much % is your one

We're going tomorrow to have a look. The one we are after and apparently a few more available for about the same price. One realtor had said foreign quota no problem but we will find out tomorrow. It's not on the BTS line so that pretty much limits to Chinese. I don't see many farang above Asoke/ Sukhumvit period but especially one's I'd believe might own condos (when riding blue line).

[smutcakes]

4 minutes ago, Laphroaig27 said:

We're going tomorrow to have a look. The one we are after and apparently a few more available for about the same price. One realtor had stayed foreign quota no problem but we will find out tomorrow. It's not on the BTS line so that pretty much limits to Chinese. I don't see many farang above Asoke/ Sukhumvit period but especially one's I'd believe might own condos (when riding blue line).

Very unusual for any condo in BKK to reach foreign owned quota.

[Laphroaig27]

As I have so many of your attention.

 

The house book would be yellow correct? My wife can be added. Can the both of us be added when the book is created? Is this done at the amphoe or land office? Presume the former.

 

Can I also request the elusive and coveted pink card or is that even more paperwork lol.

[Peterw42]

17 minutes ago, Laphroaig27 said:

As I have so many of your attention.

 

The house book would be yellow correct? My wife can be added. Can the both of us be added when the book is created? Is this done at the amphoe or land office? Presume the former.

 

Can I also request the elusive and coveted pink card or is that even more paperwork lol.

No, getting and going in a yellow book is a separate process, done at the local ampher, nothing to do with the land office. The seller would usually hand over the exsisting blue book for the property at the sale.

 

Getting a YB is widely discussed in other threads. And once you are in a yellow book then a pink ID is forthcoming

[Pmbkk]

15 minutes ago, Laphroaig27 said:

Can I also request the elusive and coveted pink card or is that even more paperwork lol.

 

I got that the same time as my yellow book - took an additional 10 mins ( for the photo and print it )

[Pmbkk]

 

Re bargaining - Thais would always go in much lower so that is what I'd do.

 

If it's up for 10, I'd start at 8 to 8.5.

 

Someone offered me 17 for one of mine a couple of weeks ago, but I think it's worth 19 so I said, no. Tenants in there already.

 

My advice would be to rent though if you're in Bangkok/larger Town at the moment.

Make sure you know the cost of the community fees and if they'e any extraordinary fees at present e.g. for new lifts/painting etc  

 

Make sure you search condo name to get baseline figures for that condo/size/beds - unless it's small you'll see others for sale & go look at them e.g. hipflat, ddproperty.

 

Measure twice - cut once !

 

 

[Laphroaig27]

19 minutes ago, Pmbkk said:

 

Re bargaining - Thais would always go in much lower so that is what I'd do.

 

If it's up for 10, I'd start at 8 to 8.5.

 

Someone offered me 17 for one of mine a couple of weeks ago, but I think it's worth 19 so I said, no. Tenants in there already.

 

My advice would be to rent though if you're in Bangkok/larger Town at the moment.

Make sure you know the cost of the community fees and if they'e any extraordinary fees at present e.g. for new lifts/painting etc  

 

Make sure you search condo name to get baseline figures for that condo/size/beds - unless it's small you'll see others for sale & go look at them e.g. hipflat, ddproperty.

 

Measure twice - cut once !

 

 

Thanks+1

 

There are a few going for roundabout figures. This is the least expensive, high floor, good plan, nice building. I think it's even North facing. Imo best of the half dozen similar offer. As there are many over this price I can only assume they know the price that might sell and the price that won't. How much lower is a question. It's an ok deal on a good condo in a good building.

 

Another issue I have is having seen the USD hit 38 there's no way I'll settle for less.

 

Just have to see how it plays out.

[DrJack54]

Some fantastic advice in this thread esp @Peterw42 and others. 

My post not so specific and factual. Just some observations based on 3 purchases in last couple of years.

First observation is that the land office where you do the transfer is amazing. So simple compared to my joint Oz.

As Peterw42 pointed out earlier they very carefully make sure the sale has all the boxes ticked off.

clear title etc.

All 3 times I didn't use a lawyer.

Didn't even consult one. 

 

Recent purchase I didn't look into the common fee (yes stupid) later to discover expensive. 

 

Fortunately that condo was large and being on older side had a team of tradesmen that did most of the makeovers.

Fortunately turned out to be gems and used them on unrelated townhouse makeover.

 

OP, as for sale price....I found Thai very different ideology than western folk.

In Oz (and elsewhere) we have a saying ..."it's worth what someone is prepared to pay" 

Thai dont think that way imo.

 

OP, did you consider just putting the condo in wife's name? 

I had no qualms 

 

 

 

 

[Laphroaig27]

19 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Some fantastic advice in this thread esp @Peterw42 and others. 

My post not so specific and factual. Just some observations based on 3 purchases in last couple of years.

First observation is that the land office where you do the transfer is amazing. So simple compared to my joint Oz.

As Peterw42 pointed out earlier they very carefully make sure the sale has all the boxes ticked off.

clear title etc.

All 3 times I didn't use a lawyer.

Didn't even consult one. 

 

Recent purchase I didn't look into the common fee (yes stupid) later to discover expensive. 

 

Fortunately that condo was large and being on older side had a team of tradesmen that did most of the makeovers.

Fortunately turned out to be gems and used them on unrelated townhouse makeover.

 

OP, as for sale price....I found Thai very different ideology than western folk.

In Oz (and elsewhere) we have a saying ..."it's worth what someone is prepared to pay" 

Thai dont think that way imo.

 

OP, did you consider just putting the condo in wife's name? 

I had no qualms 

 

 

 

 

The condo will go to her, obviously. There may come a day I will transfer it. I trust her implicitly, but, it's the reverse lottery. Perhaps one in a million chance but there is always chance. Just to make it more complicated wity my purchase she already owns half. If in her name, I technically own half.

 

It's worth what people will pay. This is the ultimate determiner. Yet, it's also what the seller will accept. Therein lies the difference.

 

It's a big negotiation especially for a Thai. Money is far more tight than most farang appreciate. Doubly so outside Central Bangkok. Still, the condo market endures. Perhaps a mix of traditional Asian pay cash mentality and loans night being called on condo owners and developers. Not requiring mark to market accounting. Huge pools of black money. 

 

[Mavideol]

4 hours ago, Laphroaig27 said:

Thank you. I assume it will be in Thai and I also don't want it translated. I need the THB to go back plus 2b to 38 so I'm waiting.

do does a lot of people... better to relax,  sit down as they wait can be longer  555