Do we all have to be activists these days or at least do we have to support those activists?

[OneMoreFarang]

I read a few articles about the word cup and about labor rights in Qatar, LBGTQ+/- whatever rights, black and white or more colorful sleeves and all that.

And I have to admit I find the reactions all over the world strange.

Some teams want to wear sleeves, others don't. Sponsors complain about teams which wear sleeves or don't wear them, some people say they will boycott everything, and and and.

 

Why?

Not that I care about football, but just in case I would be a football fan. Does this also mean I have to be an activist who insists on gay rights? Why?

Do I have to care about how many people had accidents on construction sites?

Should the world only watch the world cup if it would be in a wonderful land with no accidents, 100% perfect human rights record, etc.?

 

Let's say this event would be in the UK. Should people boycott it because the UK exports weapons to the bad guys?

Or maybe people should boycott is because some people still use oil even with this climate catastrophe where some people think we will all die sometime soon?

As far as I see there are always things which can be criticized about the host country.

 

It seems now it is not possible anymore that football fans only care about football. They all must be activist. Or not?

 

Obviously it's not only football. There are those oil activists who glue themselves to anything. And people who predict the end of the world, gender equality ideologues, and and and. 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by OneMoreFarang

[Woof999]

I'll support activists to a greater or lesser extent depending on whether their views fit with mine and my own sense of morality. I'll listen to the views of most activists because only then will my views be "up to date" and my morals adjusted where necessary. I might then think:

 

1.) You're a nutter

 

2.) You have a point but it's not something I want to be involved in

 

3.) You have a great point but I'm too happy in my comfort zone to give a monkey's enough to do anything

 

4.) Off to the art shop to buy a white board and some paint - which I've never ever done.

 

Should also mention that how activists try and put their point across also makes a difference. Have a peaceful protest, lobby the government and wave some banners and that's great. Glue yourself to the road and I'll run you over.

 

Having said all that, if people don't like my morals then I have others.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Woof999

[seedy]

Can't see why anyone would even ask this question.

Pick and Choose - support what you want, ignore what you want.

Worry about others think of you ? - 555

Good luck with that - or changing their minds about anything.

 

Go placidly amidst the noise and haste, ...

[DaLa]

9 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

I'll support activists to a greater or lesser extent depending on whether their views fit with mine and my own sense of morality. I'll listen to the views of most activists because only then will my views be "up to date" and my morals adjusted where necessary. I might then think:

 

1.) You're a nutter

 

2.) You have a point but it's not something I want to be involved in

 

3.) You have a great point but I'm too happy in my comfort zone to give a monkey's enough to do anything

 

4.) Off to the art shop to buy a white board and some paint - which I've never ever done.

 

Should also mention that how activists try and put their point across also makes a difference. Have a peaceful protest, lobby the government and wave some banners and that's great. Glue yourself to the road and I'll run you over.

 

Having said all that, if people don't like my morals then I have others.

100% agree. Especially with the 'can't be ar**d' part. Whenever I've been confronted with a situation that isn't personal to me I give it a wide berth. That include anything to do with politics , picket lines, protecting the continued existence of the 3 legged octopus..  Simpler to just work around the problem, move on and not get heated about the subject. Life's too short.

[KhunLA]

I'll listen to any activist that isn't a hypocrite. 

 

Still waiting ...  all quiet here & everywhere ????

[BritManToo]

I don't care about football or woke activists.

So no problem for me.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

If you look at the particulars of this situation it is a bit dire. I don't mind others enjoying their favourite sport. But it's a bit hard to ignore that almost certainly FIFA picked Qatar due to bribes, that people were treated abominably when building the infrastructure, and that the human rights in general in Qatar is extremely poor.

 

Look at the workers from south Asia as one example. If you see the video of workers living in terrible conditions in 50 degree heat, stuck like sardines in a room, no showers so they bathe with a bucket and water from the one or two toilets available for many men, it makes it all a bit real. That doesn't include the actual work where many have perished in the heat and unsafe work conditions. This is a rich country that could have and should have done so much better.

 

 

The way to see if something is too politically correct or woke, or that activists are overdoing it, is to put yourself in the shoes of the people concerned and see if it is a triviality or an indulgence to feel you are being treated badly. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Fat is a type of crazy

[Stocky]

Life isn't fair - once you accept that as a fact, then everything else falls into place.

[OneMoreFarang]

41 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

If you look at the particulars of this situation it is a bit dire. I don't mind others enjoying their favourite sport. But it's a bit hard to ignore that almost certainly FIFA picked Qatar due to bribes, that people were treated abominably when building the infrastructure, and that the human rights in general in Qatar is extremely poor.

 

Look at the workers from south Asia as one example. If you see the video of workers living in terrible conditions in 50 degree heat, stuck like sardines in a room, no showers so they bathe with a bucket and water from the one or two toilets available for many men, it makes it all a bit real. That doesn't include the actual work where many have perished in the heat and unsafe work conditions. This is a rich country that could have and should have done so much better.

 

 

The way to see if something is too politically correct or woke, or that activists are overdoing it, is to put yourself in the shoes of the people concerned and see if it is a triviality or an indulgence to feel you are being treated badly. 

Thanks

 

Obviously it is sad if people are treated badly - not just related to football.

But I wonder if Qatar is so much worse than others?

I.e. with the 2008 Olympics in China, did they treat everybody nicely? No accidents? No bad working conditions?

I don't know if all was just fine, but somehow I would be surprised.

And how many countries protested against China? And how many participants showed their support for human rights or something like that?

I didn't pay much attention but I don't think much like that happened.

Now it seems we have all the time some radical activists. At least for me most of them are annoying. 

[Hummin]

Freedom for everybody to speak and do what they want within the societies limits, and sometimes the limits have to be pushed a bit. 
 

Imagine you One More Farang was going to be hanged because you admitted adultery with a young legal lady everywhere else in the world. That would be something to protest against and fight for your rights to do so without being prosecuted and executed? 
 

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Hummin

[johnnybangkok]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks

 

Obviously it is sad if people are treated badly - not just related to football.

But I wonder if Qatar is so much worse than others?

I.e. with the 2008 Olympics in China, did they treat everybody nicely? No accidents? No bad working conditions?

I don't know if all was just fine, but somehow I would be surprised.

And how many countries protested against China? And how many participants showed their support for human rights or something like that?

I didn't pay much attention but I don't think much like that happened.

Now it seems we have all the time some radical activists. At least for me most of them are annoying. 

As you have readily admitted, you're no fan of football, but if you were (like me) you would see how much of a travesty awarding Qatar the World Cup was in the first place. As Fat (above) pointed out, this selection was mired in controversy from the beginning (with most believing it was all done with bribes) as Qatar should NEVER have been awarded this prestigous event as it had no stadiums (it had to build 7 from scratch), did not have the infrastructure (it had to build whole cities and 100's of hotels) has summer temperaturs in excess of 50 degrees (125 degrees F) and is known for it's abysmal human rights record and jailing and killing of the LGBTQ community. 

It's estimated that 6,500 foreign workers (mostly from India, Nepal and Bangladesh) died in the construction of the facilities and stories run rife about appalling living conditions, people not allowed to leave the country and people not being paid. It was basically modern slavery on a huge scale.

The 'activist' element of all this is not just about LBTQ rights but human rights in general and much of it is aimed at FIFA as much as Qatar and all of it, in my opinion, is entirely justified.

By the way, if you want to know more about it, John Oliver did an excellent expose about it all which can be viewed at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMqLDhl8PXw  

 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks

 

Obviously it is sad if people are treated badly - not just related to football.

But I wonder if Qatar is so much worse than others?

I.e. with the 2008 Olympics in China, did they treat everybody nicely? No accidents? No bad working conditions?

I don't know if all was just fine, but somehow I would be surprised.

And how many countries protested against China? And how many participants showed their support for human rights or something like that?

I didn't pay much attention but I don't think much like that happened.

Now it seems we have all the time some radical activists. At least for me most of them are annoying. 

Could be an upside of communication in social media, higher levels of education and awareness, and wealth and free time. Sounds a bit silly but I did some quizzes where you learn the countries of the world, capital cities, etc. It's amazing how that alone made me listen more closely when there's trouble in Burkina Faso or climate change is affecting Kiribati.

To the point, 50 years ago women in Qatar or in Thailand or a Sri Lankan worker seemed exotic to some - like a different type of person. Seemed like their poverty or subjugation was part of the natural order of things. Now people can see humans a bit more clearly and bit by bit know it's all a scam to keep the rich and powerful rich and powerful. 

Doesn't mean there's no hypocrisy and false motives in all of us, or that we have to pretend that people aren't annoying and we all love each other, but it could be a step in the right direction. 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, Hummin said:

Freedom for everybody to speak and do what they want within the societies limits, and sometimes the limits have to be pushed a bit. 
 

Imagine you One More Farang was going to be hanged because you admitted adultery with a young legal lady everywhere else in the world. That would be something to protest against and fight for your rights to do so without being prosecuted and executed? 

Thanks

 

I think we should accept that many people/communities/religions/countries have different ideas about what is wrong and what is right.

In Thailand I might ask a cute girl on the street if she likes to have a coffee with me.

In some other countries I would certainly not do that.

And most likely I wouldn't do it because I wouldn't visit those countries.

In Thailand lots of laws are ignored by many people. But we know there are a few laws which are absolutely not ignored and mostly not discussed. Everybody knows them and it's best to shut up.

 

So, when people visit other peoples' countries, should the visitors insist that certain things should be allowed? Should they protest? Or is it sometimes a good idea to just accept that in real life it is better to just shut up or not visit those places with laws and/or customs which we don't like?

[Doctor Tom]

4 hours ago, Woof999 said:

I'll support activists to a greater or lesser extent depending on whether their views fit with mine and my own sense of morality. I'll listen to the views of most activists because only then will my views be "up to date" and my morals adjusted where necessary. I might then think:

 

1.) You're a nutter

 

2.) You have a point but it's not something I want to be involved in

 

3.) You have a great point but I'm too happy in my comfort zone to give a monkey's enough to do anything

 

4.) Off to the art shop to buy a white board and some paint - which I've never ever done.

 

Should also mention that how activists try and put their point across also makes a difference. Have a peaceful protest, lobby the government and wave some banners and that's great. Glue yourself to the road and I'll run you over.

 

Having said all that, if people don't like my morals then I have others.

My views exactly.   To just add, The 'No More Oil', or whatever they call themselves, fanatic idiots, definitely not.  

[KhunLA]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 it is better to just shut up or not visit those places with laws and/or customs which we don't like...

Gets my vote ... ????

 

Self rule ... not my place to tell others how to live.

Edited November 23, 2022 by KhunLA

[Lacessit]

I support activists who are campaigning on the basis of facts and sound science. I don't support activists who are vocal with a belief.

[Hummin]

36 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks

 

I think we should accept that many people/communities/religions/countries have different ideas about what is wrong and what is right.

In Thailand I might ask a cute girl on the street if she likes to have a coffee with me.

In some other countries I would certainly not do that.

And most likely I wouldn't do it because I wouldn't visit those countries.

In Thailand lots of laws are ignored by many people. But we know there are a few laws which are absolutely not ignored and mostly not discussed. Everybody knows them and it's best to shut up.

 

So, when people visit other peoples' countries, should the visitors insist that certain things should be allowed? Should they protest? Or is it sometimes a good idea to just accept that in real life it is better to just shut up or not visit those places with laws and/or customs which we don't like?

We should trust the ethical bord on Fifa and Olympic committee to not give them the the prestige to arrange such events when they do not manage to open their country up and follow simple human rights. However I agree with you, just <deleted> because of corrupt ignorant presidents in such organisations who should have been prosecuted. It is tragic! 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Hummin

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

50 years ago women in Qatar or in Thailand or a Sri Lankan worker seemed exotic to some - like a different type of person.

I would even say that 50 years ago, they WERE a different kind of person , different in many aspects . 

   These days though, we are all pretty much the same . 

[1FinickyOne]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I read a few articles about the word cup

oh, at first I thought you were talking about a scrabble tournament - - thai excel.

 

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Should the world only watch the world cup if it would be in a wonderful land with no accidents, 100% perfect human rights record, etc.?

Yeah, I don't think it is not being 100% righteous that causes an outrage... I think it is more because they are too close to zero...

 

they accepted a sponsorship from Budweiser and then 2 days before the tourney, they cancelled letting them sell beer... 

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

oh, at first I thought you were talking about a scrabble tournament - - thai excel.

 

Yeah, I don't think it is not being 100% righteous that causes an outrage... I think it is more because they are too close to zero...

 

they accepted a sponsorship from Budweiser and then 2 days before the tourney, they cancelled letting them sell beer... 

Wasn't if FIFA that accepted the Budweiser deal and Qatar that disallowed alcohol from being drank  ?

   

[Mac Mickmanus]

 

Germany players today covering their mouths because their Captain wasn't allowed to wear a rainbow coloured arm band.

   Just get on with playing football  lads and leave the political statements for others 

 

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63729563

[Mac Mickmanus]

Denmark are now considering leaving FIFA because they weren't allowed to wear rainbow colours !!!!!!!!!

 

Denmark ready to leave FIFA after ’emergency meeting’ with England in OneLove call to arms

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/fifa-world-cup/denmark-ready-to-leave-fifa-after-emergency-meeting-with-england-in-onelove-call-to-arms/ar-AA14sDU3?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=a93ff97f7e9949f19bfb33fe57471cfa

 

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, Hummin said:

Freedom for everybody to speak and do what they want within the societies limits, and sometimes the limits have to be pushed a bit. 
 

Imagine you One More Farang was going to be hanged because you admitted adultery with a young legal lady everywhere else in the world. That would be something to protest against and fight for your rights to do so without being prosecuted and executed? 
 

 

World has never corresponded with what some consider the "right" viewpoint on life, and IMO never will.

We may have been around for 50,000 years but mentally we are still cavemen, and act like it- to the victor the spoils, and the losers can go jump.

 

Don't like the laws, either don't live in that country or change them, by whatever means possible ( how is it working out for demonstrators in Iran? ).

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Denmark are now considering leaving FIFA because they weren't allowed to wear rainbow colours !!!!!!!!!

 

Denmark ready to leave FIFA after ’emergency meeting’ with England in OneLove call to arms

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/fifa-world-cup/denmark-ready-to-leave-fifa-after-emergency-meeting-with-england-in-onelove-call-to-arms/ar-AA14sDU3?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=a93ff97f7e9949f19bfb33fe57471cfa

 

55555555555555

What a rainbow bunch they are!

Can they really be descended from Vikings, LOL?

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Wasn't if FIFA that accepted the Budweiser deal and Qatar that disallowed alcohol from being drank  ?

   

That's only in the stadiums. Probably for good reasons. Alcohol is available elsewhere, but one wonders if the football world is populated by alcoholics that it's such a big deal? Can't get by without booze, LOL.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Gets my vote ... ????

 

Self rule ... not my place to tell others how to live.

Well said. I worked in Saudi for years but only as long as I could tolerate it. Eventually I had enough of it and was angry all the time, so I left. I never had any illusions I could change it.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, Woof999 said:

I'll support activists to a greater or lesser extent depending on whether their views fit with mine and my own sense of morality. I'll listen to the views of most activists because only then will my views be "up to date" and my morals adjusted where necessary. I might then think:

 

1.) You're a nutter

 

2.) You have a point but it's not something I want to be involved in

 

3.) You have a great point but I'm too happy in my comfort zone to give a monkey's enough to do anything

 

4.) Off to the art shop to buy a white board and some paint - which I've never ever done.

 

Should also mention that how activists try and put their point across also makes a difference. Have a peaceful protest, lobby the government and wave some banners and that's great. Glue yourself to the road and I'll run you over.

 

Having said all that, if people don't like my morals then I have others.

I'm too cynical to think that we can change anything unless the powers behind the curtain agree, so I tend to ignore any and all activists, and consider them more as looking to live off the gullible than actually change anything.

However, I scorn woke activists.

[ozimoron]

14 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I don't care about football or woke activists.

So no problem for me.

Do you care if children pick your chocolate or make your clothes? Do you care that slave labour made many of the things you buy? You can slur activists all day long but it says more about you than them.

[Purdey]

Throughout history a mass of people have been pushed to give rights to others by activists. 

"End slavery? Nonsense. That William Wilberforce is just an activist."

"Votes  for women? Blooming suffragette activists."

We are too lazy or feel unable to be activists because of jobs, family etc. Giving at least moral support to activists is all we can do. When someone takes a knee or wears a rainbow armband, that is not an activist but a strong supporter. Showing support for activists is necessary. Throwing yourself in front of the king's horse is activism. 

[Srikcir]

Nelson Mandela:

"Sport has the power to change the world." 

Sports convey lessons about values and culturally appropriate behavior.

Example: National Germany hosting the Olympic Games. Nothing but a propogandi message.