6 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

So can I get it clear - the end of civilisation will make the cashless society irrelevant?
Do you have any advice for the interim, before the end of civilisation?

Yes. Stop making it easy for big business to rule us.

 

I hope all you that want the end of cash realise you want mass unemployment.

No cash

don't need cash registers- don't need people making/ fixing them

don't need accountants- AI can do all that

don't need bank employees- AI can do all their jobs

don't need anyone working in a mint

don't need security services transporting money

don't need piggy banks- no need for employees to make them

don't need wallets or purses

etc

etc.

 

So all you that want cashless want to ruin people's lives.

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Oh taking other people's money is just so inconvenient, so let's get rid of money, let the buyer take the risk of it going wrong, and make lots more profit.

No one is considering getting rid of money , there is just an easier way of using money that using cash . 

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

No one is considering getting rid of money , there is just an easier way of using money that using cash . 

If it's not something you can hold it's just data.

It's only easy till it's not. Welcome to the hacker's world- crime pays better than honest work.

On 11/30/2022 at 8:56 PM, hotandsticky said:

 

 

....and the costs for handling cash are.......?

The cost of cash is inflation, but that is just an an annual cost, not a per transaction cost.

No-one ever says it out loud, but inflation is a tax on everyone,  that nobody has to vote on. Within reason and as long as there is financial stability, politicians love inflation. 

I bet the guy who just got 44M from the lottery IN CASH will not be for going cashless.

48 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The cost of cash is inflation, but that is just an an annual cost, not a per transaction cost.

No-one ever says it out loud, but inflation is a tax on everyone,  that nobody has to vote on. Within reason and as long as there is financial stability, politicians love inflation. 

Inflation affects the money in your bank account or your ewallet same as it affects the cash under your mattress.

I was always sceptical that this could ever happen in Thailand as so many people/business's don't declare their total income and/or their income (on paper) is below the tax threshold.  An ex was even paid her overtime in cash by a large Japanese company.

 

In the UK and I presume, most other western countries, undeclared income (grey money) must remain as cash or be 'washed'. However, I've had several conversations with Thai's as to what they do with 'grey money' and was amazed to find that paying it into a personal bank account is not a problem.

 

Having had a tax investigation in the UK, I'm aware that its not possible to do that in the UK.  The tax people go through all your bank accounts - back 7 years.  Any cash paid in that you can't explain is treated as income and you are taxed on it - none of those I spoke to had ever heard of that happening in Thailand.

 

So, if cash doesn't have to stay cash in Thailand, there's not going to be too much resistance to becoming cashless.

 

That said, I'm against it - as other's have said, I don't want records of my entire financial life to be available to all and sundry - I'm sick of being a constant marketing target already. A person also has the right to privacy.

40 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

 

 

That said, I'm against it - as other's have said, I don't want records of my entire financial life to be available to all and sundry - I'm sick of being a constant marketing target already. A person also has the right to privacy.

In what way do you get targeted and by whom ?

Just asking because I haven't been targeted by anyone 

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

47 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

That said, I'm against it - as other's have said, I don't want records of my entire financial life to be available to all and sundry - I'm sick of being a constant marketing target already. A person also has the right to privacy.

In what way do you get targeted and by whom ?

Just asking because I haven't been targeted by anyone 

Who out of ‘all and sundry’ is going to be able to get hold of his financial records.... 

 

I can imagine those who make such statements thinking.... “There is no way I want Bob to get my financial records, he will target me to buy those windows he sells, he’ll never leave me alone knowing I bought windows 10 years ago” !!!!! ????

 

 

Or... he’s worried that just like 'Peter the perv'....  who purchased a five-knuckle-shuffle device from knockoneout.com and they have pestered him ever since.... He can’t open his e-mails in-front of his Wife !!!  ????

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Who out of ‘all and sundry’ is going to be able to get hold of his financial records.... 

 

I can imagine those who make such statements thinking.... “There is no way I want Bob to get my financial records, he will target me to buy those windows he sells, he’ll never leave me alone knowing I bought windows 10 years ago” !!!!! ????

 

 

Or... he’s worried that just like 'Peter the perv'....  who purchased a five-knuckle-shuffle device from knockoneout.com and they have pestered him ever since.... He can’t open his e-mails in-front of his Wife !!!  ????

 

 

 

Everybody right to privacy. If you don't know how your data is used - I suggest you find out.

43 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

In what way do you get targeted and by whom ?

Just asking because I haven't been targeted by anyone 

You are targeted every day.  What you read on this forum will form part of the data that is collected. Some of the very companies that harvest your data have recently been the subject of hacking.  Hundreds of thousands of Facebook users had all their details posted online by hackers recently.

 

Why should the fact that I visited Starbucks recently be anyone else's business?

 

Yesterday I bought a pair of boots online - as I type this I'm seeing an advert containing 'Stylish Leather Boots' on the right of my screen....................do you not know how this works?

31 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Or... he’s worried that just like 'Peter the perv'....  who purchased a five-knuckle-shuffle device from knockoneout.com and they have pestered him ever since.... He can’t open his e-mails in-front of his Wife !!!

Don't be so bloody riduculous.

 

And by the way, I don't have a wife.

1 minute ago, KhaoYai said:

Why should the fact that I visited Starbucks recently be anyone else's business?

 

Yesterday I bought a pair of boots online - as I type this I'm seeing an advert containing 'Stylish Leather Boots' on the right of my screen....................do you not know how this works?

Of course we know how this works....   but is it really such a significant impact on your life to face targeted adds you can ignore if you want ?

 

You are bothered about it because you want to be bothered about it. 

 

Everything around us is marketing and we face it all the time, but ultimately, If you don’t want to buy something don’t buy it.

 

 

Other than seeing adds you don’t like because you feel invited that the artificial intelligence of marketing algorithms knows something about you and you don’t like it...  

 

What is really harmful about any of this to you ???

 

 

The only things I can imagine would be harmful is ’targeted pricing’... i.e. when looking to buy a plane ticket etc - its more expensive because ’the system’ knows we want to fly from xxx to xxx in that month every year....  Of course, were not at that stage and not sure we will get to that stage.

 

So I wonder if all this paranoia is not just getting worried about something for no logical reason, we just don’t like it and thus look for justification. 

 

Personally, if I have to face adds at all, I'd rather have targeted adds than random rubbish I’m not interested in..... Fortunately, we’re not quite there yet as I’m not getting a load of Ads for ’things 16 year old girls like’ after searching for an ideal Christmas present for my niece !!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

40 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Or... he’s worried that just like 'Peter the perv'....  who purchased a five-knuckle-shuffle device from knockoneout.com and they have pestered him ever since.... He can’t open his e-mails in-front of his Wife !!!

Don't be so bloody riduculous.

 

And by the way, I don't have a wife.

relax... that comment wasn’t targeted at you....  just a generalisation, with a little humour, about how some may be paranoid about ‘targeted advertisement’.... 

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Yesterday I bought a pair of boots online - as I type this I'm seeing an advert containing 'Stylish Leather Boots' on the right of my screen....................do you not know how this works?

You mean you bought some boots online and now the AI thinks you should upgrade to some stylish ones ????  ????

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

In what way do you get targeted and by whom ?

Just asking because I haven't been targeted by anyone 

That is depressing.  Ne’er mind, there is peace and tranquility in wanting for ought, and it is often said that the poorest people are the happiest - though rarely by the poorest people, and you will rarely see the affluent actively pursue that goal.   But to be someone upon whom the advertisers have given up - that must surely be a relief.

3 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The cost of cash is inflation, but that is just an an annual cost, not a per transaction cost.

No-one ever says it out loud, but inflation is a tax on everyone,  that nobody has to vote on. Within reason and as long as there is financial stability, politicians love inflation. 

 

I heard brilliant economist in the late 90's saying that what we needed was a little bit of inflation (the economy was flat at the time).

 

But, he said, a little bit of inflation is like getting a little bit pregnant - before you know it, it has run away from you.

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

So I wonder if all this paranoia is not just getting worried about something for no logical reason, we just don’t like it and thus look for justification. 

The point is, marketing data has been misused and will continue to do so. Those holding such data are also regularly hacked. Now we are talking about the harvesting of finacial data and the likelihood is that that will also be misused, hacked, whatever.

 

I believe I have a right to privacy but when you buy or receive anything electronically - what are your rights? In the West there is regulation but there is still abuse........ imagine Asia? Account and PIN numbers hacked wholesale?

2 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

That is depressing.  Ne’er mind, there is peace and tranquility in wanting for ought, and it is often said that the poorest people are the happiest - though rarely by the poorest people, and you will rarely see the affluent actively pursue that goal.   But to be someone upon whom the advertisers have given up - that must surely be a relief.

What advertising are you subjected to ?

    

10 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

In what way do you get targeted and by whom ?

Just asking because I haven't been targeted by anyone 

Never had an ad pop up on a forum after you had just discussed the subject? I was on a forum and was discussing travel to a certain country, then an ad for visiting that country popped up on my screen.

The only way not to be targeted is to not give them enough info to make a profile.

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Never had an ad pop up on a forum after you had just discussed the subject? I was on a forum and was discussing travel to a certain country, then an ad for visiting that country popped up on my screen.

The only way not to be targeted is to not give them enough info to make a profile.

But thats nothing to do with being cashless or being targeted through spending by card

47 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

But thats nothing to do with being cashless or being targeted through spending by card

Did you not ask

"In what way do you get targeted and by whom ?

Just asking because I haven't been targeted by anyone".

 

You didn't specify what you were referring to.

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Did you not ask

"In what way do you get targeted and by whom ?

Just asking because I haven't been targeted by anyone".

 

You didn't specify what you were referring to.

The conversation is about being targeted by advertising companies when using cashless cards and my post was about that subject , rather than my post just being a general question 

11 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

The point is, marketing data has been misused and will continue to do so. Those holding such data are also regularly hacked. Now we are talking about the harvesting of finacial data and the likelihood is that that will also be misused, hacked, whatever.

 

I believe I have a right to privacy but when you buy or receive anything electronically - what are your rights? In the West there is regulation but there is still abuse........ imagine Asia? Account and PIN numbers hacked wholesale?

You've had an account and PIN Numbers for decades, nothing new there - the same arguments were made about the risk of getting your card skimmed. 

 

I agree with the rights to privacy - but when we enter a public domain we give up some of those rights, i.e shopping on Amazon or any other online purchase - I don’t see that as a major issue. 

 

You have quite rightly pointed out the concern surrounding the harvesting of financial data, there is security in place - there is risk of that being hacked. But the ‘weak-link’ is humans who in a corrupt world can sell on our CC information etc - that has already been happening for years.

 

What is potentially far more concerning than any of the above is identity theft... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A minority seem to know how to use a cashless system, but the number of times I am in a line that has ground to a halt over someone trying to get their payment app to work is voluminous. It is especially annoying when dealing with a 45 baht cup of coffee. Just man up and carry some cash!

 

Giving people the option of going cashless is one thing. Demanding it is another. I love cash. Cash is king! 

18 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The conversation is about being targeted by advertising companies when using cashless cards and my post was about that subject , rather than my post just being a general question 

Fair enough. I missed that.

15 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

You've had an account and PIN Numbers for decades, nothing new there - the same arguments were made about the risk of getting your card skimmed. 

 

I agree with the rights to privacy - but when we enter a public domain we give up some of those rights, i.e shopping on Amazon or any other online purchase - I don’t see that as a major issue. 

 

You have quite rightly pointed out the concern surrounding the harvesting of financial data, there is security in place - there is risk of that being hacked. But the ‘weak-link’ is humans who in a corrupt world can sell on our CC information etc - that has already been happening for years.

 

What is potentially far more concerning than any of the above is identity theft... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What you say is correct as far as it goes. I doubt many have a problem with the present system, but the problem is eliminating entirely the ability to exist outside the hacker's domain.

16 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

A minority seem to know how to use a cashless system, but the number of times I am in a line that has ground to a halt over someone trying to get their payment app to work is voluminous. It is especially annoying when dealing with a 45 baht cup of coffee. Just man up and carry some cash!

 

Giving people the option of going cashless is one thing. Demanding it is another. I love cash. Cash is king! 

They need to make the apps easier to use and make them more reliable 

On 12/4/2022 at 4:19 AM, richard_smith237 said:

What is potentially far more concerning than any of the above is identity theft... 

Which I have been a victim of and is one of the main reasons I'm against data harvesting of any kind. Its just too vulnerable and criminals will always find a way to access it. Best that its not recorded in the first place.

I've gone cashless, it's easy, actually I've gone without money altogether....OK I'm broke, that's what it is, happy now.