Troubling looking electrical wires, how bad really is it?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, blackshadow said:

get the owner to have a GOOD SPARKIE to come and re wire 

YOU should know that water and elecctric do NOT like each other !!!!

Without a safety cut off it's not going to be much safer if just rewired IMO.

[NorthernRyland]

2 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

I'll go outside a little later and track down the wires. This is a crappy little wooden cabin (weekend getaway) which is built to the bare minimum of standards in all regards so you can expect anything.

Well all the wiring from the house is run underground and under cement even so I can't see where they're going from there. All the wires are technically underground but I can't see if the ground itself is attached to a rod or anything.

 

Is it really possible Joven 500 doesn't have this safety feature you guys are referring to? Looking at https://www.joventhailand.com/en/product/water-heater-joven-500/ I don't see it in their current 500 model either.

 

In the mean time I'm going to at least make some seal around the wires so water can't slash in. I doubt the landlord will know anything about the wires but she's extremely cheap so I can expect she's cutting corners anyway possible.

[xtrnuno41]

Ever heard of Murphy's law?

You think it cant happen, but it does.

They used flat cable, though happily (if seen right) it is a 3x 4mm2.

Of course finding a seal for that on the instrument is hard, even maybe impossible to find. So they should have used a round cable for which you can have proper sealing.

Stripping of the cable should occur and be in the instrument.

But they did wrong. Mai pen rai way

Simplest way now is as Crossy said put flexible hose over the cable and seal that properly on instrument, with some silicon paste shutting of tiny holes.

 

Doing so, switch of the power with the fuse in the fusebox and MEASURE if power is really off. You have to open the heater box, disconnect wiring, pull it out the wiring and put the flexhose over the cable on the outside of the instrument. Then return all again.

However, I dont kow how handy you are. As you claim not having any tools, 555. Then have silicon kit and put it on, Thai way.

 

Murphy's law again. They put water inlet of instrument up over the wall with a bend right at the power cable inlet. Why it wouldnt break there in time? Murphy's law.

Turn the valve and put water supply down, NOT on te wall towards power cable inlet.

 

Yeah, nice to see a ground cable, is it connected inside and on your ground rod? Is the resistance of the ground rod low enough, did they measured it for good working ground?

Otherwise, it is all fake safety.

Electricity takes the lowest resistance all the time and that could be you.

 

There for replace the fuse on which is the heater with a RCBO.

No matter if it is or not is in your heater.

That is a fuse combined with a differential amp switch between live and neutral. It should have a value of 30mA tops.

I enlarged the photo of the fuse box and im almost sure there is not any of them in the box.

Normally after fuse value, you could read additional text of "earth leakage value". It is not to be seen on it. ▲I=30mA

 

Or switch all off and have a nice cold shower.

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, Phnom Penh Trader said:

I would suggest wearing rubber shoes in the shower and possibly even a rubber wetsuit?

Let the missus go first, if she comes out then okay.

[DJ54]

https://joven-electric.com/my/support/faq/technical
 

[curtklay]

A clear example of why permits and inspections are required in the civilized world.

 

[NorthernRyland]

3 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

However, I dont kow how handy you are. As you claim not having any tools, 555. Then have silicon kit and put it on, Thai way.

 

Well I could manage to seal the hole up with silicon or tape around it but that's about it. If I need to be messing with the wires I should probably have the land lord get someone to do it lest I make it even worse. ????

[Jai Dee]

A flame post has been removed.

[The Theory]

20 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

How bad is this? Does it require immediate attention? 

Cheap water heater. Replace it with a good one and fix the wiring, if you are planing to stay there for a while. 

[Sparkling]

This is serious and could go fatally wrong any time. Despite it might be ok for a long time, or even never fail, that is a "lucky" draw.

 

Heater with safety cut is mandatory.

We f.e. got a great Panasonic for (i think i remember) 2800 Baht (there are cheaper ones that will do).

 

You need proper installation. Check the ground wiring.

 

Fix it today. As from the start: These things (and worse) have been very common for decades without trouble but the only statistical figures, of which you can become a part tomorrow.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Sparkling

[Tropposurfer]

On 11/28/2022 at 12:28 PM, NorthernRyland said:

You mean remove the metal cover? I don't think I even have a screwdriver here so I'll need to track one down.

Unless you are a licensed electrician do not EVER remove the facier cover in the mains box. You as a complete layman going anywhere near it with a metal tool is insanity! That is a sure fire way to kill yourself!

[NorthernRyland]

31 minutes ago, Tropposurfer said:

Unless you are a licensed electrician do not EVER remove the facier cover in the mains box. You as a complete layman going anywhere near it with a metal tool is insanity! That is a sure fire way to kill yourself!

damn, good thing I didn't! 

Edited November 29, 2022 by NorthernRyland

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Tropposurfer said:

Unless you are a licensed electrician do not EVER remove the facier cover in the mains box. You as a complete layman going anywhere near it with a metal tool is insanity! That is a sure fire way to kill yourself!

That is a ridiculously alarmist statement. There is little, if any, danger in taking the cover off unless it has been wired by a complete numpty and the cover itself is live. 
 

Who is ever going to have anything other than a metal screwdriver?

 

Once the cover is off, then you have to be careful where you use uninsulated metal tools and if you don’t know what you are doing then don’t use tools inside, true statement.

 

”a sure fire way to kill yourself”? Not hardly. Can you kill yourself? Yes but you have to be unlucky to manage that. 
 

@NorthernRyland please ignore @Tropposurfers comments.

a moderate amount of caution is warranted but the OTT warning is not.

Edited November 29, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/28/2022 at 4:48 PM, xtrnuno41 said:

Doing so, switch of the power with the fuse in the fusebox and MEASURE if power is really off. You have to open the heater box, disconnect wiring, pull it out the wiring and put the flexhose over the cable on the outside of the instrument. Then return all again.

Actually no need to disconnect any wires. Cut flex covering to length required, cut lengthways along flex covering on one side only, put over wiring. If wanting to be extra secure, wrap with insulating tape.

I'd turn power off at main breaker while doing it just in case.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/28/2022 at 4:47 PM, NorthernRyland said:

Well all the wiring from the house is run underground and under cement even so I can't see where they're going from there. All the wires are technically underground but I can't see if the ground itself is attached to a rod or anything.

 

Is it really possible Joven 500 doesn't have this safety feature you guys are referring to? Looking at https://www.joventhailand.com/en/product/water-heater-joven-500/ I don't see it in their current 500 model either.

 

In the mean time I'm going to at least make some seal around the wires so water can't slash in. I doubt the landlord will know anything about the wires but she's extremely cheap so I can expect she's cutting corners anyway possible.

Heaters with included safety cut off have a test button. If no test button it probably doesn't have a safety cut off.

You can have an earth added just for that, as long as your landlord doesn't mind you drilling a hole in the wall for the wire ( unless you want to crawl around in the roof space ).

Just make sure the earth rod is correct length.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/30/2022 at 4:16 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

That is a ridiculously alarmist statement. There is little, if any, danger in taking the cover off unless it has been wired by a complete numpty and the cover itself is live. 
 

Who is ever going to have anything other than a metal screwdriver?

 

Once the cover is off, then you have to be careful where you use uninsulated metal tools and if you don’t know what you are doing then don’t use tools inside, true statement.

 

”a sure fire way to kill yourself”? Not hardly. Can you kill yourself? Yes but you have to be unlucky to manage that. 
 

@NorthernRyland please ignore @Tropposurfers comments.

a moderate amount of caution is warranted but the OTT warning is not.

Agree, but unless the OP knows what to look for there is little point in doing so.

Main thing when looking in electrical devices is to make sure the power is actually off to the device. I love my test screwdriver.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/28/2022 at 7:53 PM, NorthernRyland said:

Well I could manage to seal the hole up with silicon or tape around it but that's about it. If I need to be messing with the wires I should probably have the land lord get someone to do it lest I make it even worse. ????

Get your own electrician. The landlord may use their friendly and cheap one that doesn't know much more than you.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/28/2022 at 6:15 PM, DJ54 said:

https://joven-electric.com/my/support/faq/technical
 

No safety cut off there. Only a cut off if the temperature goes over 55 C. That's not what kills you.

[xtrnuno41]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Actually no need to disconnect any wires. Cut flex covering to length required, cut lengthways along flex covering on one side only, put over wiring. If wanting to be extra secure, wrap with insulating tape.

I'd turn power off at main breaker while doing it just in case.

 

 

Yes in the mai pen rai system all is possible.

Fact is, if they did it right first time, then this issue wouldnt be here.

Electricity works fast, just one tiny error and you could end up dead in a jiffy time. It is your live. People often think to simple about electricity.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/2/2022 at 5:10 PM, xtrnuno41 said:

Yes in the mai pen rai system all is possible.

Fact is, if they did it right first time, then this issue wouldnt be here.

Electricity works fast, just one tiny error and you could end up dead in a jiffy time. It is your live. People often think to simple about electricity.

Nothing Mai Pen Rai about what I said. The flex covering closes up, and it's actually quite hard to open it enough to put the wire inside. If one is cautious one can use insulating tape around it as well. Safer IMO than an amateur unscrewing electrical wiring to put it through the flex cover and perhaps not putting it back properly.

 

Do it right first time? LOL. We are talking about Thailand, are we not?