Work Permit expired and I didn't know I had to leave the country

[tomazbodner]

6 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Fines for what? She was in breach of immigration law. Nothing to do with the police.

She was in breach of labour laws for not cancelling work permit after leaving previous employer and stayed on.

 

It states at the back of work permit when it needs to be returned, and from what I remember it said on the form for extension of stay in what amount of time the extension needs to be cancelled after work permit cancellation.

 

If WP has been cancelled (actually when still having booklet, I would get it returned with punch holes at the back) then OP should not be in breach of labour laws (except if he kept working after cancellation), but in breach of immigration laws.

 

It is however possible his WP never got cancelled. And that could bite him later. Either way, I'd get out of the country soon, and that should not be a problem for OP.

[Xanthe]

12 hours ago, BritTim said:

One option is a one-way ticket to Vientiane, returning by land via the Friendship Bridge to Nong Khai.

Airlines and Laos immigration don't have any issues with one-way tickets to Laos?

[Mike Teavee]

30 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Right ok.

 

If the permission to stay is still "valid" why would they be asking for  work termination letter ?

 

Because the permission to stay granted by your Non-IMM B Visa + Work Permit is dependant on being employed by that company so when you leave without a re-entry permit they’re going to ask Why & if you no longer work for the company they’re going to ask to see a termination letter

 

I have no idea if it’s the same but when (twice) I finished working for companies in Singapore I needed a signed letter from IRAS (Singapore Tax Authority) + confirmation of my termination from the company to prove that I’d completed my employment, had paid all necessary taxes & was free to leave the country…

 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[Gottfrid]

12 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

I seem to recall reading some time ago that one of the Airlines (Laos Air?) won’t let you fly if you’re leaving Thailand with an Overstay.

 

Could be completely mistaken, again one of those things to check if it might impact you. 

The biggest problem, would be that he will not even reach the possibility to fly, if he not pass immigration and pay the fine. Which means, you can not come to the point of leaving the decision to the airline.

[Gottfrid]

To OP: I would say you are screwed! It your obligation to know how your visa works.

After that you say no money for pay overstay nor flight home. Only money for mini weekend with GF?????

Now it sounds like you do anything to get screwed ???? 

[Ralf001]

1 minute ago, Mike Teavee said:

Because the permission to stay granted by your Non-IMM B Visa + Work Permit is dependant on being employed by that company so when you leave without a re-entry permit they’re going to ask Why & if you no longer work for the company they’re going to ask to see a termination letter

 

I have no idea if it’s the same but when (twice) I finished working for companies in Singapore I needed a signed letter from IRAS (Singapore Tax Authority) to say that I’d completed my employment, had paid all necessary taxes & was free to leave the country…

 

 

Yes, I understand how it works when cancelled but OP has gone back to employer (if you read the thread) and it appears the permission to stay was never cancelled.

Which the begs my previous question, why would they ask for work cancellation letter if permission to stay in passport appears to be "valid"?

[Mike Teavee]

4 minutes ago, Xanthe said:

Airlines and Laos immigration don't have any issues with one-way tickets to Laos?

This is my question as I’m sure I’ve read that Laos Airlines will not let you fly if you are leaving Thailand on an overstay. 
 

I believe there are no problem entering Laos with a 1-way ticket, well I hope there aren’t as I’ll be going over on Friday 1-way, planning to do 3 nights in Vientiane then play it by ear as to whether to move on to somewhere else in Laos or come back to Thailand (I do have a re-entry permit good till 26th September so nothing to do with border runs or visa hops just a pucker holiday to see a country I’ve never visited before).

 

[Mike Teavee]

16 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Yes, I understand how it works when cancelled but OP has gone back to employer (if you read the thread) and it appears the permission to stay was never cancelled.

Which the begs my previous question, why would they ask for work cancellation letter if permission to stay in passport appears to be "valid"?

The Employer doesn’t cancel the permission to stay, they cancel the work permit which technically means the employee has 1 week to exit Thailand or find  another way to extend their permission to stay.

 

The “challenge” the OP will have is leaving the country on a non-IMM B normally means you’re going on holiday in which case (BOI type visas aside) you should have a re-entry permit or you’re leaving because your employment has come to an end in which case you should have a termination letter from your employer

& it’s here where Immigration will check whether you’ve outstayed your permission to stay (they don’t need to cancel it),

 

If the OP can get a termination letter from his last employer stating that his work finished within 1 week of him leaving (or 15th Feb, which ever comes soonest) then he should be ok, if he can’t then he’s at the mercy of the IO not checking but risks being sent  back to get the Termination letter the date of which will determine the extent of his overstay. 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[Mike Teavee]

27 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

The biggest problem, would be that he will not even reach the possibility to fly, if he not pass immigration and pay the fine. Which means, you can not come to the point of leaving the decision to the airline.

If Laos Airlines really do have this policy (& I’m not saying they do, am relying on something I think I might have read 3-4 years back) then I would guess that they would check your passport on check-in & refuse you if you were over your permission to stay date so you wouldn’t make it near immigration unless you purchased a  ticket with a different airline.

 

@ubonjoeCan you please confirm if I’ve just imagined this or if Laos Airlines doesn’t accept guys on overstay. 

[wallywest]

39 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

After that you say no money for pay overstay nor flight home. Only money for mini weekend with GF?????

Now it sounds like you do anything to get screwed ???? 

My family member a couple of weeks ago had a serious medical emergency and I had to send them thousands of dollars and they won't be able to pay me back for a few weeks. 

 

So yes, I do have the money to take a cheap trip to Laos with my girlfriend for 3 days that would only cost a few thousand baht, but didn't have the money for 20k overstay plus 50k flight to USA.

 

Making fun of someones financial situation when you have no idea what they're going through is pretty tacky. 

[Gottfrid]

1 minute ago, wallywest said:

My family member a couple of weeks ago had a serious medical emergency and I had to send them thousands of dollars and they won't be able to pay me back for a few weeks. 

 

So yes, I do have the money to take a cheap trip to Laos with my girlfriend for 3 days that would only cost a few thousand baht, but didn't have the money for 20k overstay plus 50k flight to USA.

 

Making fun of someones financial situation when you have no idea what they're going through is pretty tacky. 

Yes, and sending away all your money when in a foreign country is pretty stupid.

[Neeranam]

6 hours ago, wallywest said:

"Yes I checked with my colleague. Don't show your work permit to the immigration in the airport if you leave outside of Thailand before Feb 15th. Your visa still in the system of immigration."

Why would you show immigration your WP?

 

I got a WP once, left the job immediately and kept the visa for a year. Then when I applied for a WP, I paid 1500 baht at Din Daeng police station. Hovever this was many years ago, it might have changed. 

 

You should be OK to exit, only an Immigration officer can change your visa, your former work cannot, the DoL cannot. 

[n00dle]

8 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Yes, and sending away all your money when in a foreign country is pretty stupid.

so is every comment you have made in this thread.

[josephbloggs]

I would wait for someone like Ubonjoe who knows his stuff to give you proper advice and not listen to any forum conjecture.

Having said that here is my forum conjecture. I have worked here for 20+ years. At one of the companies I worked for a friend got laid off, his visa extension had 10 months to run. I advised him against it but he stayed in Thailand until the date his extension ended, even making overseas trips and coming back in to the country. Don't take my word for it as things could well have changed, but it didn't seem like immigration and the department of employment were connected, and when I fly out of the country they just thumb to my last entry stamp and then stamp me out - I never see them looking for my re-entry permit as why would they care?

 

If your employer took you to immigration to cancel your extension of stay you have a problem, if they didn't then I don't think you do as immigration look at the stamp in your passport.

 

Then again with biometrics maybe it is linked now, that might make sense.

 

Like I said I am guessing, as are most other people here, wait for one of the experts who can give you proper advice. Ubonjoe is the absolute oracle when it comes to this kind of stuff. If you are worried PM him, otherwise I wouldn't listen to anyone here (including me).

[problemfarang]

2 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

Right ok.

 

If the permission to stay is still "valid" why would they be asking for  work termination letter ?

 

as i mentioned before. it means you are working and you have a contract. so, if you want to leave the country without any proof you are still working or not, creates some questions both legally and for immigration. why are you leaving? did you do something illegal? did you cheat your contract? did you abuse something.. are you overstay..  etc.  thats why you need to proof you didnt do anything wrong. its just not right. you just cannot leave the country knowing that it will cancel your visa which is related to a contract.

im sorry i dont know how to explain better. but i hope you get the point what im trying to explain. 

[problemfarang]

2 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Police Station? 

i dont know what you mean.. but she could ended up work ban. im pretty sure if she do taht again they will ban her from working in thailand for some time. 

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, wallywest said:

My family member a couple of weeks ago had a serious medical emergency and I had to send them thousands of dollars and they won't be able to pay me back for a few weeks. 

 

So yes, I do have the money to take a cheap trip to Laos with my girlfriend for 3 days that would only cost a few thousand baht, but didn't have the money for 20k overstay plus 50k flight to USA.

 

Making fun of someones financial situation when you have no idea what they're going through is pretty tacky. 

Don’t bite…  

 

Have been in a similar situation myself where I very nearly lost my house because of money my brother needed but family (before self) always comes 1st.

I think most guys on this thread are on your side & trying to chip in to offer advice where we can, a couple of us have asked @ubonjoeto comment so hopefully he’ll be along soon to offer some solid pointers.

 

Best of luck & please do keep us updated on how you’re get on.  

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, problemfarang said:

very correct. but immigration will not let him leave with a still going on non-b work visa. otherwise how can the immigration know hes overstay or not or maybe he is running away or he did something against the contract?!

At land crossings, you are correct. Without a cancelled permission to stay or a termination letter from the company, immigration will generally not allow you to leave. However, experience has shown that immigration at the airports will usually stamp you out without demanding proof of your continued employment or termination date. He must leave by air.

[DrJoy]

16 hours ago, BananaStrong said:

happened to a colleague years ago, it was HIS fault 100%.   They said it's his responsibility to understand his visa.

 

His fine was 7000 and he had to pay it.

 

It will cost you 20,000 and maybe another 2000 if you need an extra week, and I think you will not be blacklisted.

 

It’s 500 THB per day overstay but capped at 20,000 THB

[problemfarang]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

At land crossings, you are correct. Without a cancelled permission to stay or a termination letter from the company, immigration will generally not allow you to leave. However, experience has shown that immigration at the airports will usually stamp you out without demanding proof of your continued employment or termination date. He must leave by air.

probably you are right. and i think you are right.. you are one of the people who talk little but enough in this forum. 

but im so surprised that it works this way... 

so i can do whatever i want and just fly to laos and WOW all forgotten.. i dont think this is fair or ok...

 

yes he must leave by air and pay 20K.. 

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, problemfarang said:

probably you are right. and i think you are right.. you are one of the people who talk little but enough in this forum. 

but im so surprised that it works this way... 

so i can do whatever i want and just fly to laos and WOW all forgotten.. i dont think this is fair or ok...

 

yes he must leave by air and pay 20K.. 

There are three aspects to this: the legal situation, the moral considerations, and practical consequences.

 

Morally, I do not see him as being in the wrong if he can find a way to safely avoid the normal legal penalties for his overstay. He is the victim of an accident that could affect him quite seriously.

 

In practical, terms if he could at this time financially afford to leave by air with a termination letter revealing the overstay, pay the overstay fine and leave, this has the merit that it wipes the slate clean. There can be no further penalties later. (Note that trying to terminate the permission to stay at an immigration office when already on 50+ days of overstay would be inadvisable. Although unlikely, a really vindictive official could decide to have him arrested, deported and blacklisted. This would never happen at the airport.) In his current situation, trying to avoid the overstay penalties and dealing with any residual issues that may arise later at that time, seems worthwhile (probably). It is not clearcut.

[BananaStrong]

9 hours ago, wallywest said:

Making fun of someones financial situation when you have no idea what they're going through is pretty tacky. 

Please remember this is a chat forum and COMEDY is definitely a reason some of us are here.  Overstay has always been a strangely comical topic, but you WILL get some good answers when you filter out the jokers (myself included).   You gotta laugh at yourself as well.   It is FREE advice, so you get what you pay for.  It's not like we are hired lawyers laughing.

 

My advice:  Tell people you got arrested, 20,000 plus 90,000 for emergency ticket, your money got stolen, gf left you, and your school is closed for three months.   Give the trolls a day of fun posts, then come back and say, "just kidding, no problem, no fine.   lol"

 

 

[mrwebb8825]

OP - as was alluded to briefly, your biggest concern is getting another job (if that is your intent) as the labor dept won't issue you a new wp if the previous one has never been canceled regardless of expiration date.

Unless the law has changed again, the school is responsible for canceling the wp and subject to fines if they don't. This is enforced in BKK more than the provinces. They were also technically responsible for notifying the immigration office of your employment termination which would cancel your extension But NOT a visa. You COULD have gotten a new job and applied for a new wp and an extension AFTER the old wp was canceled.

IF none of this has happened then you need to leave asap (before visa/extension expires) to avoid massive fines that are easier to get from you on the spot.

[taninthai]

I have been in this situation 2 year ago company was put into standby mode work permit not cancelled and I flew out country 3 months later with no issue at all.

flew back in on tourist visa 2 year later no issue ,,,immigration turn up house 3 days later check passport see expired work permit again I tell them company closed due to Covid now I holiday no problems or issue ,immigration said thanks and left my house.