2 minutes ago, itsari said:

Have you any knowledge of a person having had there visa declared invalid because of using a agent and a immigration officer using his discretion ?

I do not believe you will find one case as you described . 

Since you do not believe it, that will spare me the effort of looking for the specifics.

Also, the 'discretion' of the Imm Officer you are mentioning, has to be bought by the Agent or the applicant for a hefty fee, and corruption is the term to be used for such practice.

15 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Tell me how folks come in on a 30 day exempt and then go to immigration and get a 90 day Non Imm-O Visa.  Your saying you can't....555+

"Your saying you can't....555+"

I am saying nothing of the sort!????

Folks can come in on a 30/45 day exempt and convert to a Non imm-0, quite legally, but it can only be done in Bangkok, so lets say you are in Pattaya, your passport is sent to Bangkok, takes a few weeks, however there are conditions?

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I was in the Visa agents office waiting my turn and in front of me an Australian couple were being told how they were going to get the 15 month conversion/extension retirement plan. No mention whatsoever of it being a bypass of regulations.... you are huffing and puffing but this is a common situation and I have yet to hear of it causing problems. I think it is absolutely credible that people applying may not know fully the requirements... that is perhaps why they are in an agent's office. 

The conversion from lets say a 30/45 visa exempt to a 15 month retirement extension,for the first year,  is quite legal, but first you need to obtain a non Imm-0 visa, which only be done in Bangkok and it takes a few weeks.

30 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Since you do not believe it, that will spare me the effort of looking for the specifics.

Also, the 'discretion' of the Imm Officer you are mentioning, has to be bought by the Agent or the applicant for a hefty fee, and corruption is the term to be used for such practice.

I spare you the effort as you will not find a case and you know that.

Discretion is available to the officers .

 

 

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Why ? Getting everyone legal would mean that it is easier for those law-abiding persons. 

Thailand is one of the easiest countries in the world to get a long term visa legally, those who cheat the system are not good for the image of farnag here. 

Why? Because it is not easy to navigate the Thai visa-jungle. An anecdote: I personally know two farang that were so gullible as to believe the Visa Agent they turned to, that he (the Agent) could secure a 'legit' Visa and subsequent extensions for them without having to park the required funds on a personal Thai bank-account.

Worse: one of those farangs was married to a Thai national and had dependant children.  So instead that the Agent advised and helped him with applying for a Non Imm O for that reason (which only requires +400K on a personal Thai bank-account at the moment of application, after which you are free to use the funds as you please), the Agent got him a Non-Imm O Visa and subsequent extensions for reason of retirement (as that was easier and more profitable for the Agent, than doing it the 'legit' way and applying for reason of dependant children). 

My friend is 'hooked now' and has to rely on that Agent for servicing him each year for the Non Imm O retirement application, since he cannot show that he met the financial conditions for the extension that was issued to him, and thus cannot apply for a new extension without Agent help to bypass the financial conditions. He obviously wasn't pleased when I explained it to him as he was under the conviction that he had a fully valid extension.  And it would have been easy for him to get the required + 400K for a couple of days to meet the 'dependant children' financial requirement.  Note: In order to legalize his situation he would have to do a border-run to kill his present Non Imm O retirement Permit to stay, and on return then apply for the Non Imm O Visa for reason of dependant children.

The above goes to show that the farang that made use of the Agent service to bypass the financial requirements, were/are often not fully aware of the consequences of doing so. And even if they were, the 'totally legal' claims by Agents and some posters on this Forum, might have pushed them to take the risk.

And then of course there are those that simply did not have the required funds, and were desperate to stay in the Land of Smiles. If I were as good as broke and the only way of staying in Thailand with my lovely Thai lady would be to 'cheat' by using a fixer Agent to secure my Visa/extension, I would probably go that route too.

So I feel for the farangs that might be sacrificed as collateral damage in this internal IO corruption clamp-down saga. And I would advise all those that are living here in Thailand on a non-valid extension stamp, to carefully consider whether it is worth the risk if they have the financial means to do it the 'legit' way.

 

1 hour ago, Red Phoenix said:

You are mistaken.

There IS a requirement to maintain the required bank-balance during the validity of your Non Imm O permission to stay. 

And it is being checked (not 'waived') by the Imm Officer when you apply for your next extension whether you met those conditions.

Incorrect.. its waived so the extension is granted for the year ahead. So your talk  of illegal is dead  wrong. Next year is not here yet., so according to you its illegal to intend to extend your stay????Never heard so much ill informed comment on this topic from anti agent posters.If you want some facts go speak with a good visa professional who can explain it for you. Or maybe your not that into facts.? 

 

 

36 minutes ago, mikeymike100 said:

"Your saying you can't....555+"

I am saying nothing of the sort!????

Folks can come in on a 30/45 day exempt and convert to a Non imm-0, quite legally, but it can only be done in Bangkok, so lets say you are in Pattaya, your passport is sent to Bangkok, takes a few weeks, however there are conditions?

So you were wrong then when you stated that you can not get a Visa in Thailand and it must be done from outside......

10 minutes ago, itsari said:

I spare you the effort as you will not find a case and you know that.

Discretion is available to the officers .

 

 

Discretion is not up to the IO themselves, but the IO in charge of the immigration unit and why sometimes they take your paperwork to that desk to have it reviewed.

5 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Why? Because it is not easy to navigate the Thai visa-jungle. An anecdote: I personally know two farang that were so gullible as to believe the Visa Agent they turned to, that he (the Agent) could secure a 'legit' Visa and subsequent extensions for them without having to park the required funds on a personal Thai bank-account.

Worse: one of those farangs was married to a Thai national and had dependant children.  So instead that the Agent advised and helped him with applying for a Non Imm O for that reason (which only requires +400K on a personal Thai bank-account at the moment of application, after which you are free to use the funds as you please), the Agent got him a Non-Imm O Visa and subsequent extensions for reason of retirement (as that was easier and more profitable for the Agent, than doing it the 'legit' way and applying for reason of dependant children). 

My friend is 'hooked now' and has to rely on that Agent for servicing him each year for the Non Imm O retirement application, since he cannot show that he met the financial conditions for the extension that was issued to him, and thus cannot apply for a new extension without Agent help to bypass the financial conditions. He obviously wasn't pleased when I explained it to him as he was under the conviction that he had a fully valid extension.  And it would have been easy for him to get the required + 400K for a couple of days to meet the 'dependant children' financial requirement.  Note: In order to legalize his situation he would have to do a border-run to kill his present Non Imm O retirement Permit to stay, and on return then apply for the Non Imm O Visa for reason of dependant children.

The above goes to show that the farang that made use of the Agent service to bypass the financial requirements, were/are often not fully aware of the consequences of doing so. And even if they were, the 'totally legal' claims by Agents and some posters on this Forum, might have pushed them to take the risk.

And then of course there are those that simply did not have the required funds, and were desperate to stay in the Land of Smiles. If I were as good as broke and the only way of staying in Thailand with my lovely Thai lady would be to 'cheat' by using a fixer Agent to secure my Visa/extension, I would probably go that route too.

So I feel for the farangs that might be sacrificed as collateral damage in this internal IO corruption clamp-down saga. And I would advise all those that are living here in Thailand on a non-valid extension stamp, to carefully consider whether it is worth the risk if they have the financial means to do it the 'legit' way.

 

Indeed, the wise are doing whatever it takes to become legal and escape the agents. 

Personally, I think we should name and shame agents here. 

Using agents when you have Thai spouse/kids is crazy! 

4 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Discretion is not up to the IO themselves, but the IO in charge of the immigration unit and why sometimes they take your paperwork to that desk to have it reviewed.

Ok, thank you , but discretion is available can you say.

3 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Incorrect.. its waived so the extension is granted for the year ahead. So your talk  of illegal is dead  wrong. Next year is not here yet., so according to you its illegal to intend to extend your stay????Never heard so much ill informed comment on this topic from anti agent posters.If you want some facts go speak with a good visa professional who can explain it for you. Or maybe your not that into facts.? 

 

 

I am not anti-Agent. They can provide a useful service if you are unsure or not knowledgeable on how to navigate the Thai visa-jungle. And I have no objections to them 'fixing' the financial requirements for your Visa/extension application, as long as they are honest about it and don't tell you that it is fully legal and with no consequences when being caught.

Re my 'ill informed' content: You should try next time when you apply for your 1-year extension (without using an agent) to see how the Imm Officer would react when you cannot show evidence of having kept the funds for the required period on your personal bank-account.

11 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

So you were wrong then when you stated that you can not get a Visa in Thailand and it must be done from outside......

I didn't state anything, what I 'said' was

"Visas I believe can only be obtained outside of Thailand,  at an Embassy or Consul? "

The Non Imm 0 visa , which is what I was referring to, would be a 'conversion' from the 30/45 visa exempt, so not a 'new' visa,

10 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

I am not anti-Agent. They can provide a useful service if you are unsure or not knowledgeable on how to navigate the Thai visa-jungle. And I have no objections to them 'fixing' the financial requirements for your Visa/extension application, as long as they are honest about it and don't tell you that it is fully legal and with no consequences when being caught.

Re my 'ill informed' content: You should try next time when you apply for your 1-year extension (without using an agent) to see how the Imm Officer would react when you cannot show evidence of having kept the funds for the required period on your personal bank-account.

So your 'non valid" "not legit" "possible deportation" disputing legat stamps etc.was in fact incorrect.!! Is that the same as ill informed!? 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, mikeymike100 said:

I didn't state anything, what I 'said' was

"Visas I believe can only be obtained outside of Thailand,  at an Embassy or Consul? "

The Non Imm 0 visa , which is what I was referring to, would be a 'conversion' from the 30/45 visa exempt, so not a 'new' visa,

On that fine post of yours we will agree to disagree, and BTW a Non-Imm O Visa granted inside Thailand is a new Visa regardless if it was from converting your exempt status.  Different class I am afraid......toodles.

24 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Indeed, the wise are doing whatever it takes to become legal and escape the agents. 

Personally, I think we should name and shame agents here. 

Using agents when you have Thai spouse/kids is crazy! 

If you named and shamed agents, wouldn't you have problems with 'defamation'?

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

On that fine post of yours we will agree to disagree, and BTW a Non-Imm O Visa granted inside Thailand is a new Visa regardless if it was from converting your exempt status.  Different class I am afraid......toodles.

I agree it was a fine post!????

A conversion from one thing to another is just that! However you believe what you want to believe!

Have a good one!

10 minutes ago, Olmate said:

So your 'non valid" "not legit" "possible deportation" disputing legat stamps etc.was in fact incorrect.!! Is that the same as ill informed!?

Nope

42 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Why? Because it is not easy to navigate the Thai visa-jungle. An anecdote: I personally know two farang that were so gullible as to believe the Visa Agent they turned to, that he (the Agent) could secure a 'legit' Visa and subsequent extensions for them without having to park the required funds on a personal Thai bank-account.

Worse: one of those farangs was married to a Thai national and had dependant children.  So instead that the Agent advised and helped him with applying for a Non Imm O for that reason (which only requires +400K on a personal Thai bank-account at the moment of application, after which you are free to use the funds as you please), the Agent got him a Non-Imm O Visa and subsequent extensions for reason of retirement (as that was easier and more profitable for the Agent, than doing it the 'legit' way and applying for reason of dependant children). 

My friend is 'hooked now' and has to rely on that Agent for servicing him each year for the Non Imm O retirement application, since he cannot show that he met the financial conditions for the extension that was issued to him, and thus cannot apply for a new extension without Agent help to bypass the financial conditions. He obviously wasn't pleased when I explained it to him as he was under the conviction that he had a fully valid extension.  And it would have been easy for him to get the required + 400K for a couple of days to meet the 'dependant children' financial requirement.  Note: In order to legalize his situation he would have to do a border-run to kill his present Non Imm O retirement Permit to stay, and on return then apply for the Non Imm O Visa for reason of dependant children.

The above goes to show that the farang that made use of the Agent service to bypass the financial requirements, were/are often not fully aware of the consequences of doing so. And even if they were, the 'totally legal' claims by Agents and some posters on this Forum, might have pushed them to take the risk.

And then of course there are those that simply did not have the required funds, and were desperate to stay in the Land of Smiles. If I were as good as broke and the only way of staying in Thailand with my lovely Thai lady would be to 'cheat' by using a fixer Agent to secure my Visa/extension, I would probably go that route too.

So I feel for the farangs that might be sacrificed as collateral damage in this internal IO corruption clamp-down saga. And I would advise all those that are living here in Thailand on a non-valid extension stamp, to carefully consider whether it is worth the risk if they have the financial means to do it the 'legit' way.

 

I have an old friend who does this. (Money's not an issue for him AFAIK). He spent 12 or 13 years doing it the legit way.

Surely if one left Thailand and re-entered on a new non-O visa to try and become totally legal again, the Immigration Dept would still have a record of your previous residency in Thailand?

3 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

I have an old friend who does this. (Money's not an issue for him AFAIK). He spent 12 or 13 years doing it the legit way.

Surely if one left Thailand and re-entered on a new non-O visa (to try and become totally legal again, the Immigration Dept would still have a record of your previous residency in Thailand?

Yes, they would still have a record of you having stayed in Thailand previously (even if you re-enter with a new passport).

But there would be no incentive at all for Immigration to lift your earlier files.

So exiting Thailand and re-entering (be it with a new Non Imm O Visa, Tourist Visa or Visa Exempt) would allow you to start anew and become totally legal again.

2 hours ago, mikeymike100 said:

"Your saying you can't....555+"

I am saying nothing of the sort!????

Folks can come in on a 30/45 day exempt and convert to a Non imm-0, quite legally, but it can only be done in Bangkok, so lets say you are in Pattaya, your passport is sent to Bangkok, takes a few weeks, however there are conditions?

Not quite.

Enter on a 30/45 day exempt, and apply for ( not convert to ) a non imm visa at your local Immigration Office.

Takes around 10 days, on average, and your passport goes nowhere, you return to your IO for the non imm O visa stamp to be applied.

1 hour ago, Red Phoenix said:

Nope

Your right this time. It was infact Incorrect and misleading, as no doubt you intended.

3 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

to show your Bank Pass-book to see whether you still meet the conditions under which it was issued.

Thank you but I no longer have a Thai bank account, or a Thai visa, as I now live in Cambodia. I was relating my experiences of visa extensions during my 20 years retirement in Thailand.

2 hours ago, mikeymike100 said:

The conversion from lets say a 30/45 visa exempt to a 15 month retirement extension,for the first year,  is quite legal, but first you need to obtain a non Imm-0 visa, which only be done in Bangkok and it takes a few weeks.

Andrew Dwyer already responded to your post, and he is fully correct.

#1 - When having entered Thailand VisaExempt or on a 60-day Tourist Visa, you can then apply for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa at the Imm Office of the province where you plan to reside.  

This has to be done when you still have at least 15 days left on your permit to stay as stamped in your passport by border-immigration on entry. Note that in some provinces, they require 21  or 23 days before Permit expiry.  In case you have too little time to prepare for the application, you can also apply first for a 30-day extension of your Permit to stay (costs 1.900 THB).

Those 15 (or 21/23) days are required because your Non Imm O Visa application has to be approved by Divisional Headquarters of the province where you are applying, and that process can take up to 2 weeks.  So that minimum of 15 days is meant to avoid that your Permit to stay expires before Div Headquarters has approved your application (which is just a bureaucratic thing as the provincial Imm Office does not want to 'lose face'  by submitting an application that does not meet the requirements).

Note that Immigration does not keep your Passport during the process, but you have to return on the day indicated to have the Div Headquarter approval for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa based Permit to stay, stamped in your Passport  

#2 - When having entered Thailand with a 90-day Non Imm O Visa, you will receive on entry a 90-day permit to stay stamped in your passport by border-immigration (if you used #1 the local Imm Office will have stamped the 90-day permit in your passport).

And ultimately till the day of expiry of that Permit to stay, you can apply at the local Imm Office of the province where you plan to reside for the 1-year extension based on that original Non Imm O Visa.

Such application for a 1-year extension requires seasoning of the required financial funds (+800K for 'retirement' / +400K for 'marriage') for two months before application.  Note that if you apply for reason of dependent Thai children there is NO seasoning requirement, and that if you are a woman married to a Thai man that NO financial funds are required).

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

I'm talking 2016/17.

Well Jomtien got busier in the intervening 6/7 years....seems particularly busy post covid. I think a few weeks ago, Phuket stopped some services for Chinese and it was rumoured they were coming to Jomtien. 

4 hours ago, mikeymike100 said:

The conversion from lets say a 30/45 visa exempt to a 15 month retirement extension,for the first year,  is quite legal, but first you need to obtain a non Imm-0 visa, which only be done in Bangkok and it takes a few weeks.

Yes I know about the conversion of the Permission of TR to a Non Imm-O entry. etc.. although I think you may be wrong that it can only be done in Bangkok.....That was the case a few years back, but it was only temporary.... and I believe Jomtien can issue them.. 

3 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Yes I know about the conversion of the Permission of TR to a Non Imm-O entry. etc.. although I think you may be wrong that it can only be done in Bangkok.....That was the case a few years back, but it was only temporary.... and I believe Jomtien can issue them.. 

Yes, when I did mine around 6 years ago, it went to Bangkok!

17 minutes ago, mikeymike100 said:

Yes, when I did mine around 6 years ago, it went to Bangkok!

As stated they cancelled that temporary restriction, it was brought in because of something happening but for the life of me I cannot remember now what it was.

5 hours ago, Smokey and the Bandit said:

If you named and shamed agents, wouldn't you have problems with 'defamation'?

I don't think so, not if they are breaking the law. Would they really want exposure?

The big agents don't advertise anymore, for obvious reasons, they do all their business through LINE or Messenger. 

Now I would like to know which of the remaining "clean" offices is handing the confirmation of residence for free. The going rate is somewhere by between 300 and 500 Baht for a service which is officially free. Or is it a computer crime to ask questions like this?

10 minutes ago, hkt83100 said:

Now I would like to know which of the remaining "clean" offices is handing the confirmation of residence for free. The going rate is somewhere by between 300 and 500 Baht for a service which is officially free. Or is it a computer crime to ask questions like this?

If you mean TM30 I would guess that agents are using the same address for multiple visa holders. You would be paying for address rental/facilitation of your upcountry visa when you live in BKK/Pattaya. You may have problems - this may be why the TM30 is under so much scrutiny, and proving the address exists and you really live there is required.