Donald Trump says he expects to be arrested on Tuesday

[Yellowtail]

22 hours ago, heybruce said:

Ok, I know this is futile, but provide evidence of your claim "other officers that were openly disparaging their Commander in Chief speaks to where your allegiance really lies."  What officers in addition to General Mark Milley, and most important, what did they say and when?

 

However I can answer the question--The allegiance of all officers in the US Military is to the US Constitution.

Is it your position that that General Milley and others did not your contemptuous words against the President? 

 

[Yellowtail]

On 4/2/2023 at 12:33 PM, 2baht said:

Your argument is so weak! Is this a protest???

 

I think those are the gun control activists that stormed Tennessee State Capitol in Nashville. Had they been right-wingers protesting child mutilation, it would have been an insurrection, but because they were leftists it was called a protest.  

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I think those are the gun control activists that stormed Tennessee State Capitol in Nashville. Had they been right-wingers protesting child mutilation, it would have been an insurrection, but because they were leftists it was called a protest.  

What do the court rulings and convictions call it?

[Yellowtail]

22 hours ago, heybruce said:

I agree.  The "problem" could be alleviated by acknowledging the obvious:  The best, brightest, most hard-working and ambitious all over the world want to live and work in America.  It is idiotic that they are not welcomed in large numbers.  Not open borders, but much easier long-term work visas and immigration rules in general for such people.

You are conflating legal immigration with illegal immigration. Is it your position that it's the "...best, brightest, most hard-working and ambitious..." people from all over the world flooding across the border? 

 

Virtually all illegal aliens enjoy at least some level of public assistance.  

 

22 hours ago, heybruce said:

 

There is a self-serving strategic logic to this.  Great power contests are won often by economic power more than diplomatic policy or military strength.  Economic power greatly enhances diplomatic and military effectiveness.  Being more open to the world's "best and brightest" would be great for the economy.

I think over half of STEM related master's degrees are issued to foreign students. We already get the best and brightest. 

 

Allowing people to flood across the border hurts everyone but the rich, it hurts everyone else, and disproportionally hurts the poor (working or otherwise) in the United States.

 

If Hispanics did not support the left by a wide margin, the borders would be closed. 

 

[Yellowtail]

18 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What do the court rulings and convictions call it?

Seriously? The court has not ruled yet, as it just happened a few days ago, but the media is calling a protest.

 

[Yellowtail]

22 hours ago, placeholder said:

And if they were legal, then they would be working for at least minimum wage with overtime rules in effect.

To be clear, you want to criminally punish the citizens that hire them, but at the same time you want to make it legal for illegal immigrants to work, is that correct? 

 

22 hours ago, placeholder said:

So less grounds for alleged displacement of workers. Although it's dubious that many native-born Americans would want to do the backbreaking work that constitutes so much a part of agriculture. And in slaughterhouses, too.

Flooding the market with low and no skilled labor drives wages down for low and no skilled workers. 

 

I worked as farm labor in California, Montana and Florida. If people need money, they'll work.

[2baht]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

If Hispanics did not support the left by a wide margin, the borders would be closed. 

Were'nt they paying for the wall? What happened there???

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

To be clear, you want to criminally punish the citizens that hire them, but at the same time you want to make it legal for illegal immigrants to work, is that correct? 

 

Flooding the market with low and no skilled labor drives wages down for low and no skilled workers. 

 

I worked as farm labor in California, Montana and Florida. If people need money, they'll work.

No. What i said was, if you want to stop the flow of undocumented aliens into the country, the best way to do it would be to impose severe penalties on employers who hire them. A lot less disruptive than trying to control the border.

And I specifically wrote "if they were legal". In other words set up a system where aliens can legally meet the demands of various industries. And, as I wrote, this would make enforcement of minimum wage and overtime rules possible. Also health and safety rules.  Because these aliens legally in the U.S. wouldn't have to accept illegal treatment at the hands of employers. Of course, a decent minimum wage is necessary to make this work and not crowd out citizens and green card holders.

[ozimoron]

On 4/2/2023 at 12:05 PM, Yellowtail said:

Are you claiming he did not? 

Are you claiming he did not? 

Show where Trump ever indicted a company for hiring illegal workers.

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

No. What i said was, if you want to stop the flow of undocumented aliens into the country, the best way to do it would be to impose severe penalties on employers who hire them. A lot less disruptive than trying to control the border.

And I specifically wrote "if they were legal". In other words set up a system where aliens can legally meet the demands of various industries. And, as I wrote, this would make enforcement of minimum wage and overtime rules possible. Also health and safety rules.  Because these aliens legally in the U.S. wouldn't have to accept illegal treatment at the hands of employers. Of course, a decent minimum wage is necessary to make this work and not crowd out citizens and green card holders.

Too late then. Another non-solution, particularly wrt deaths from imported drugs. Bravo.

Edited April 3, 2023 by nauseus

[transam]

Trump should have been arrested for being an embarrassment to the USA....

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Too late then. Another non-solution, particularly wrt deaths from imported drugs. Bravo.

Are you under the misapprehension that the imported drugs mainly come across the border, smuggled in by illegal immigrants?

[transam]

Has anyone mentioned Don's dodgy stuff that is waiting to be sorted....

 

https://www.justsecurity.org/75032/litigation-tracker-pending-criminal-and-civil-cases-against-donald-trump/

[placeholder]

24 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Too late then. Another non-solution, particularly wrt deaths from imported drugs. Bravo.

Why too late? Why couldn't it be started later?

As for imported drugs. as has been noted in this forum many times, imported drugs mostly cross the border at government controlled crossings. The fact is that there is a huge amount of manufactured goods crossing daily from Mexico. The drugs are packes in with them. Not feasible to subject most of them to thorough inspections. And little to do with human trafficking.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

No. What i said was, if you want to stop the flow of undocumented aliens into the country, the best way to do it would be to impose severe penalties on employers who hire them. A lot less disruptive than trying to control the border.

And I specifically wrote "if they were legal". In other words set up a system where aliens can legally meet the demands of various industries. And, as I wrote, this would make enforcement of minimum wage and overtime rules possible. Also health and safety rules.  Because these aliens legally in the U.S. wouldn't have to accept illegal treatment at the hands of employers. Of course, a decent minimum wage is necessary to make this work and not crowd out citizens and green card holders.

I am all for penalizing all employers that knowingly hire illegal aliens, and I support mandating every employee be E-Verified regardless of position or years of service, do you? 

 

I think every employee found to be working illegally should be terminated and deported, and every employer should be required to pay reasonable relocation and severance packages based on the individual's term of service. 

 

I worked in a number of places that employed illegals, including a union sheet metal facility in California, and the illegals all enjoyed the same pay and benefits (except SS) as everyone else. 

 

Neither OSHA nor the labor department differentiate between places that hire illegals and those that do not. 

 

The people illegally flooding across the border put significant additional strain on all the public services offered to everyone else. While this means nothing to the rich, it hurts the non-rich and is terrible for the poor. 

 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

34 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Show where Trump ever indicted a company for hiring illegal workers.

Texas company to pay $3 million after investigation reveals hiring illegal aliens | ICE

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Why too late? Why couldn't it be started later?

As for imported drugs. as has been noted in this forum many times, imported drugs mostly cross the border at government controlled crossings. The fact is that there is a huge amount of manufactured goods crossing daily from Mexico. The drugs are packes in with them. Not feasible to subject most of them to thorough inspections. And little to do with human trafficking.

And "...as has been noted in this forum many times,..." completing the wall would free up thousands of border patrol officers to focus on the government controlled crossings.  

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

13 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Texas company to pay $3 million after investigation reveals hiring illegal aliens | ICE

Although that company was never actually  indicted which is what the poster was asking for.

 

"In a non-prosecution agreement with the U.S. Attorney’s Office, Speed Fab Crete, a Texas-based builder, admitted it illegally employed individuals not authorized to work in the United States, and agreed to forfeit $3 million to the U.S. Treasury for use in promoting law enforcement activities related to immigration enforcement."

 

Trump, trumps it all......................

 

For years — including during Trump’s presidency — the Trump Organization employed undocumented workers as housekeepers, waiters, groundskeepers and stonemasons. Using them brought a double advantage: Trump could reap the financial benefit of undocumented labor — the ability to pay his employees lower wages and fewer benefits — and the political benefit of attacking it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/5-questions-about-president-trumps-use-of-undocumented-workers/2019/12/04/29439928-16a2-11ea-a659-7d69641c6ff7_story.html

[placeholder]

29 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I am all for penalizing all employers that knowingly hire illegal aliens, and I support mandating every employee be E-Verified regardless of position or years of service, do you? 

 

I think every employee found to be working illegally should be terminated and deported, and every employer should be required to pay reasonable relocation and severance packages based on the individual's term of service. 

 

I worked in a number of places that employed illegals, including a union sheet metal facility in California, and the illegals all enjoyed the same pay and benefits (except SS) as everyone else. 

 

Neither OSHA nor the labor department differentiate between places that hire illegals and those that do not. 

 

The people illegally flooding across the border put significant additional strain on all the public services offered to everyone else. While this means nothing to the rich, it hurts the non-rich and is terrible for the poor. 

 

 

 

So you agree that hiring undocumented aliens should be made a criminal offense? And strictly enforced? If that were ever to happen, I doubt that many employers with so much to lose, would be hiring undocumented workers. And if jobs were only available through legal channels for immigrants, the immigration problem at the border would mostly go away. Undocumented immigrants overwhelmingly come here to work and send back money to their families. Without that incentive, why would they show up?

[placeholder]

26 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

And "...as has been noted in this forum many times,..." completing the wall would free up thousands of border patrol officers to focus on the government controlled crossings.  

 

 

As has also been noted hundreds of times. such a wall would be an environmental disaster. And it's dubious whether such a wall would ultimately be successful.  And what would concentrating officers at borders accomplish? Is that about illegal drugs? You seriously think that anti-drug enforcement at the borders would work?

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

So you agree that hiring undocumented aliens should be made a criminal offense? And strictly enforced? If that were ever to happen, I doubt that many employers with so much to lose, would be hiring undocumented workers. And if jobs were only available through legal channels for immigrants, the immigration problem at the border would mostly go away. Undocumented immigrants overwhelmingly come here to work and send back money to their families. Without that incentive, why would they show up?

How about you answer my questions and I'll answer yours? 

 

 

 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

How about you answer my questions and I'll answer yours? 

 

 

 

Here's your question. (not questions)

I am all for penalizing all employers that knowingly hire illegal aliens, and I support mandating every employee be E-Verified regardless of position or years of service, do you? 

Well, what do you mean by "penalizing'? Like making it a felony with mandatory prison time? Or just imposing financial penalties? Or making it a misdemeanor?

[Yellowtail]

18 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Although that company was never actually  indicted which is what the poster was asking for.

Is that all you have, really? From the link: "Five individuals have already pleaded guilty in connection with the scheme..." 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Here's your question. (not questions)

I am all for penalizing all employers that knowingly hire illegal aliens, and I support mandating every employee be E-Verified regardless of position or years of service, do you? 

Well, what do you mean by "penalizing'? Like making it a felony with mandatory prison time? Or just imposing financial penalties? Or making it a misdemeanor?

Actually, it is two easy yes or no questions: 

1. Do you support penalizing all employers that knowingly hire illegal aliens?

2. Do you support mandating every employee be E-Verified regardless of position or years of service? 

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Is it your position that that General Milley and others did not your contemptuous words against the President? 

 

What contemptuous words did Milley use against Trump while he was President?

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Is that all you have, really? From the link: "Five individuals have already pleaded guilty in connection with the scheme..." 

 

 

You're right, they probably were indicted but that does not take away the outcome which I quoted (no conviction) nor does it take away the use of undocumented workers by Trump while at the same time attacking it politically.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[placeholder]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

Actually, it is two easy yes or no questions: 

1. Do you support penalizing all employers that knowingly hire illegal aliens?

2. Do you support mandating every employee be E-Verified regardless of position or years of service? 

It's clearly you who are being evasive. I asked you to specify what "penalize" means in this context and you just ignore it. What specifically do you mean by "penalize"? Does that mean imprisonment?

[Yellowtail]

14 minutes ago, placeholder said:

As has also been noted hundreds of times. such a wall would be an environmental disaster.

In what way?

14 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And it's dubious whether such a wall would ultimately be successful.

It is only dubious to the left.

14 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And what would concentrating officers at borders accomplish?

Do you think the officers at the border do nothing? As I remember they check documents and vehicles and whatnot. More officers would allow more of this could be done. 

14 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Is that about illegal drugs?

Is what about illegal drugs? I thought were talking about illegal aliens. But yes, given they occasionally catch people at the boarder with drugs, more searches should result in more people being caught. 

14 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You seriously think that anti-drug enforcement at the borders would work?

No. How about we handle it like you suggest we handle illegal immigration? Rather than wasting time trying to stop drugs from coming into the country, we focus on punishing the users to reduce the demand?  

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Texas company to pay $3 million after investigation reveals hiring illegal aliens | ICE

Before Trump's time.

[Yellowtail]

19 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You're right, they probably were indicted but that does not take away the outcome which I quoted (no conviction)

They pleaded guilty and negotiated a fine, just like Hillary, yes?