Trump has pleaded not guilty to 34 counts of falsifying business records

[ThailandRyan]

3 hours ago, Tug said:

This is the least serious of the cases he’s facing (because of his actions) does anyone think it’s penetrating his brain that he in deep trouble or does he think he’s truly untouchable?

I do not believe that anything can penetrate the mans Thick skull.  He believes that he can do what he wishes and when the house of cards falls because of him he blames everyone else.  What happened to the days where when the head of a company, a CEO, or even the President accepted the blame for what occurred under their watch.  Now its everyone throwing all others under the bus. Trump does this especially well, and to use his own Mantra when things go wrong, he points at others and yells "Your Fired"

[LosLobo]

15 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

There is no 'hard' evidence against Trump.

 

Print out 'hard' copies of the attached cheques and loan account.

 

How do you like them apples?

 

President Trump’s checks reimbursing Michael Cohen’s Stormy Daniels payments, explained - Vox

[ThailandRyan]

2 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I am not saying it is not a crime or that in an ideal world charges are not appropriate. But would have they put the resources into this over something that happened some years ago if it wasn't Trump. Not sure. It certainly gives the right ammunition to suggest he is getting special treatment. That is if my interpretation of what has come out is correct. 

My answer to your question "But would have they put the resources into this over something that happened some years ago if it wasn't Trump.", is yes they would, and white collar crime for the most part is never printed in papers, but prosecutions do occur and unfortunately those with less money than Mr. Trump do jail time.  My Daughter as a Honors Business major and MBA student did her thesis on white collar crime. It was recommended by the University she graduated from that she send it out to be published as a small book which they could use for classes in the future for Students studying on business crimes as part of the syllabus. 

[2baht]

2 hours ago, vandeventer said:

Again, a big nothing burger! So what is the crime of intent behind the 34 counts?

Falsifying documents in regard to payments made through Cohen to Stormy Daniels. Please do some research!

[Bkk Brian]

25 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

These 34 counts are basically about 9 payments - but have been made to look worse by the DA. They are like knowingly receiving an invoice, writing a cheque, having a cheque stub and entering the payment in a ledger - so 4 counts for 1 event. No sane DA would be listing charges like this - basically its like prosecuting someone for drink driving on 4 counts - 1, getting into the car drunk, starting the car up drunk, pulling away from the curb drunk and then driving drunk ! Totally insane.

 

There is no 'hard' evidence against Trump.

 

The payments were made by Trumps accountant (main witness) who said 1. Trump knew nothing about the payments and 2. said Trump paid him back in payments that he knowingly received as 'retainer' fees !

 

I support (sort of) Trump, but would support any prosecution that had a chance of being actually being won against him. 

 

The indictments continue to say he did all this to hide another criminal offense - but the DA will not say what it is or put it in evidence/charges.

 

This is a total joke of a prosecution, that statutes of limitations has expired - or the DA ran away before he would explain how it was still live.

 

I fully expect this DA to end up in a homeless shelter one day.

 

 

 

 

 

There is no 'hard' evidence against Trump.

 

You should read the statement of facts already posted in this thread, they also have audio evidence.

[Dan O]

33 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's not for me to spend my time researching other posters claims.

 

Try reading this at the top of the World subforum before making silly comments.

 

"Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source".

Plenty of reports available to you but it appears you can't be bothered. If you can't be bothered then apply your same comments to your own posts

[Fat is a type of crazy]

4 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

My answer to your question "But would have they put the resources into this over something that happened some years ago if it wasn't Trump.", is yes they would, and white collar crime for the most part is never printed in papers, but prosecutions do occur and unfortunately those with less money than Mr. Trump do jail time.  My Daughter as a Honors Business major and MBA student did her thesis on white collar crime. It was recommended by the University she graduated from that she send it out to be published as a small book which they could use for classes in the future for Students studying on business crimes as part of the syllabus. 

That's reassuring and hopefully they can communicate that message a bit more to the people. It still could be there's a bit more to come out too and I am being unduly pessimistic. 

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

Isn't it a bit funny that after years of trying to put Mr Trump behind bars they come up with money paid to a porn star. So now the media can concentrate on this instead of the other more important issues plaguing the country like immigration, homelessness and drugs. 

Cases do take time to be built, and iron clad ones to prove a case is solid before being prosecuted take time.  Add in the fact that nothing could be done to him while he was a sitting president, and that's why the time has finally come.  The media can do what they like, no one is telling them to hone in on the Trump issues, he is easy money from a viewership point of view to the media companies.  All the other stories are now back page news, but they are still there.

[Dan O]

36 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What is illegal is that it is alleged that Trump falsified cheque records and ledger entries over the course of 11 months to make it appear that those payments were for "legal fees" and not reimbursements. 

 

Fixed it for you.

 

 

You need to post a source for your claims according the standard you reply to me 

[Skeptic7]

2 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

Even a possible guilty verdict does not mean necessarily any jail time as ex-President Trump's Secret Service protection-for-life will have a lot to say about it.

Fine. Then they can serve his time with him. Outside his cell in round-the-clock shifts. Problem solved. The noose is tightening. If/when he's convicted, it will get sorted. 

[ThailandRyan]

5 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

That's reassuring and hopefully they can communicate that message a bit more to the people. It still could be there's a bit more to come out too and I am being unduly pessimistic. 

The issue at hand is that Trump has managed to make his followers believe he is the only one ever to be taken to task and is being persecuted.  He uses the term witch hunt so much that folks believe his drivel, without looking further to enlighten themselves. Trump is not the first and will not be the last: Below is a article regarding White Collar Crime. Read the first sentence under the Link, and this is exactly what Trump has done and has been indicted for.

 

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/white-collar-crime.asp

 

White-collar crime is a nonviolent crime often characterized by deceit or concealment to obtain or avoid losing money or property, or to gain a personal or business advantage.

 

High-profile individuals convicted of white-collar crimes include Ivan Boesky, Bernard Ebbers, Michael Milken, and Bernie Madoff. Their crimes have included insider trading, accounting scandals, securities fraud, and Ponzi schemes.

[LosLobo]

57 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's not for me to spend my time researching other posters claims.

 

Try reading this at the top of the World subforum before making silly comments.

 

"Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source".

What on earth is "World subforum"?

 

Without a link I have no way of finding out!

 

"It's not for me to spend my time researching other posters claims!"

 

 

[Eric Loh]

38 minutes ago, Credo said:

New York law requires that each step in the charge be separate.  He is following the law as written, not making up new ones.

The New York Times on Tuesday published eight of the 11 checks and a timeline of when they were sent to Cohen — all during Trump’s presidency.

 

If I am correct, each check will be treated as a separate indictment of falsifying internal business records. That will probably explain the unusually large number of indictments. Stand corrected. 

 

 

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, vandeventer said:

Again, a big nothing burger! So what is the crime of intent behind the 34 counts?

A civilized society should allow the highest elected officials to commit fraud in order to enhance their chances of getting elected? What bout the rest of us? Trump reasonably believed that he had little chance of being elected without hiding those hush money payments and you think he should walk?

[Tug]

Now the question is how long can old Donnie hold himself in check before he starts the usual spiel I’m sure somebody is taking bets on it!

[johnnybangkok]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What is illegal is that it is alleged that Trump falsified cheque records and ledger entries over the course of 11 months to make it appear that those payments were for "legal fees" and not reimbursements. 

 

Fixed it for you.

 

 

Ok, alleged (although I doubt if any person, even a MAGA enthusiast really thinks he didn't do this). But yeah, if it makes you happy 'alleged'.

 

 

 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

30 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

The issue at hand is that Trump has managed to make his followers believe he is the only one ever to be taken to task and is being persecuted.  He uses the term witch hunt so much that folks believe his drivel, without looking further to enlighten themselves. Trump is not the first and will not be the last: Below is a article regarding White Collar Crime. Read the first sentence under the Link, and this is exactly what Trump has done and has been indicted for.

 

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/white-collar-crime.asp

 

White-collar crime is a nonviolent crime often characterized by deceit or concealment to obtain or avoid losing money or property, or to gain a personal or business advantage.

 

High-profile individuals convicted of white-collar crimes include Ivan Boesky, Bernard Ebbers, Michael Milken, and Bernie Madoff. Their crimes have included insider trading, accounting scandals, securities fraud, and Ponzi schemes.

The point I guess opponents will make is what Trump did is infinitesimal compared to those noted above, particularly Madoff, and though he has done something wrong, it would not normally warrant this response, given limited DA resources. Could be that Bragg is holding further key tidbits to release later beefing up the finding.

[snowgard]

4 hours ago, Tug said:

he think he’s truly untouchable

Sure he thinks so. And he'll try anything to piss off the Maga Gaga crackheads, to demonstrate and take over the country.

One can only hope that many more Republicans realize what a nasty man Trump is.

[Dan O]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL.

Do you understand that when I say IMO it's an opinion, not a fact? Do you understand what an opinion is?

You dont seem to follow your own advice. Just like all the trumpettes, IMO 

[ozimoron]

A CNN poll shows 60% of Americans approve of Trump's indictment. I smell toast.

[johnnybangkok]

2 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

The point I guess opponents will make is what Trump did is infinitesimal compared to those noted above, particularly Madoff, and though he has done something wrong, it would not normally warrant this response, given limited DA resources. Could be that Bragg is holding further key tidbits to release later beefing up the finding.

But why is it 'infinitesimal'? By bribing Stormy D and taking care of all the other stories that were being bandied around at the time through 'catch and kill', he effectively paid his way out of any negative press at a time when it could have seen him lose the White House. This is pretty significant when you consider Hilary lost because of the server stories being touted at exactly the same time. 

One could argue it was far from ' infinitesimal' when you consider what was at stake.

 

[jerrymahoney]

13 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Could be that Bragg is holding further key tidbits to release later beefing up the finding

To me (again) the only key tidbit would be if Allen Weisselberg -- who is now sitting in jail at Rikers Island -- and who is the 'TO CFO' mentioned 13 times in the indicment statement of facts, will testify at any trial.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 minute ago, johnnybangkok said:

But why is it 'infinitesimal'? By bribing Stormy D and taking care of all the other stories that were being bandied around at the time through 'catch and kill', he effectively paid his way out of any negative press at a time when it could have seen him lose the White House. This is pretty significant when you consider Hilary lost because of the server stories being touted at exactly the same time. 

One could argue it was far from ' infinitesimal' when you consider what was at stake.

 

But my understanding, and it is limited I will admit, is that this strategy was used by Trump over a period of years with other women, and other payments, and it is not so easy to link it to the election as against, say, keeping it from his family or the public in general.

 

Sure the Stormy stuff was close to the election, but it was a pattern of behaviour, and if you look at the impact Madoff had I would say a few payments to keep an ex lover quiet, and some dodgy recording of it, is infinitesimal in comparison. Having said that, the impact on the world of four Trump years was significant, but that is in a sense a separate issue if you accept that the issue is the crime itself. 

[vandeventer]

28 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

A civilized society should allow the highest elected officials to commit fraud in order to enhance their chances of getting elected? What bout the rest of us? Trump reasonably believed that he had little chance of being elected without hiding those hush money payments and you think he should walk?

Again  what  is the crime behind the 34 counts that Bragg's never said?

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

These 34 counts are basically about 9 payments - but have been made to look worse by the DA. They are like knowingly receiving an invoice, writing a cheque, having a cheque stub and entering the payment in a ledger - so 4 counts for 1 event. No sane DA would be listing charges like this - basically its like prosecuting someone for drink driving on 4 counts - 1, getting into the car drunk, starting the car up drunk, pulling away from the curb drunk and then driving drunk ! Totally insane.

 

There is no 'hard' evidence against Trump.

 

The payments were made by Trumps accountant (main witness) who said 1. Trump knew nothing about the payments and 2. said Trump paid him back in payments that he knowingly received as 'retainer' fees !

 

I support (sort of) Trump, but would support any prosecution that had a chance of being actually being won against him. 

 

The indictments continue to say he did all this to hide another criminal offense - but the DA will not say what it is or put it in evidence/charges.

 

This is a total joke of a prosecution, that statutes of limitations has expired - or the DA ran away before he would explain how it was still live.

 

I fully expect this DA to end up in a homeless shelter one day.

 

 

 

 

 

So why all the angst?

[Misty]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

But he’s now a Defendant, anything and everything he says relating to the case may be used against him at trial.

 

He needs to stay schtum.

 

Well, if he knows what’s good for him.

Quote Bill Barr:  "Trump lacks all self-control"  https://www.newsweek.com/trump-should-not-take-stand-lacks-all-self-control-bill-barr-1792061

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Again  what  is the crime behind the 34 counts that Bragg's never said?

Falsifying business records in the first degree is in and of itself a felony.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Again  what  is the crime behind the 34 counts that Bragg's never said?

I thought the damage to election credibility was plain. I haven't read what Bragg said, nor do I care. I care only about the jury verdict. If he's innocent, all well and good. All I care about is democratic integrity. Imagine if people could get elected with the help of deceit, it would be a travesty.

[Misty]

3 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

Even a possible guilty verdict does not mean necessarily any jail time as ex-President Trump's Secret Service protection-for-life will have a lot to say about it.

Indeed.   And it sounds like the Secret Service is going to have a lot to say about another case too :

 

"Secret Service agents tied to former President Donald Trump have been subpoenaed by the special counsel investigating Trump’s handling of classified documents at his Mar-a-Lago resort after leaving office. The agents are scheduled to appear before a Washington, DC, grand jury on Friday, Fox News reported Monday. It’s unclear exactly how many agents will give testimony."   https://nypost.com/2023/04/03/secret-service-agents-linked-to-trump-subpoenaed/

 

 

 

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

"The judge overseeing former President Trump’s criminal case in New York City has set the next in-person hearing for Dec. 4, roughly two months before the official start of the 2024 Republican presidential primary calendar."

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/3934216-trump-december-court-date-2024-primaries

 

Basically anything can happen betwen now-&-then including a plea to a lesser charge to the case itself being totally dismissed.