Trump doesn’t like the term ‘woke’: ‘Half the people can’t even define it’

[placeholder]

Just now, BangkokReady said:

I don't need to prove anything.  I'm simply explaining how it is used.

 

Why would I need to "prove" that?

 

I didn't claim to do any "research".  I'm simply aware of how it is being used through experiencing it.

"I don't need to prove anything.  I'm simply explaining how it is used.Why would I need to "prove" that?"

No, you're explaining how you allege it's used. And you should offer some proof because this is a forum where people disagree. And alleging something is the case because you say so is obviously a case of circular reasoning and a deeply inadequate response. What's more, others have introduced actual independent evidence to support their case. 

 

"I didn't claim to do any "research".  I'm simply aware of how it is being used through experiencing it."

So you don't claim to have done research, yet you recommend the practice to others?

"Feel free to do your own research and reach your own conclusions.":

[stoner]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I'm not the fascist major presidential candidate focusing on an antisemitic conspiracy theory, eh?

it's strange how much you keep saying the word fascist in so many of your comments. 

 

america is the most free nation that has ever existed......if america was going fascist as you are always screaming.... how come so many people continue to flee to live there ? 

 

millions of people all over the world every year begging to move to the fascist america. 

 

 

[BangkokReady]

31 minutes ago, placeholder said:

"I don't need to prove anything.  I'm simply explaining how it is used.Why would I need to "prove" that?"

No, you're explaining how you allege it's used. And you should offer some proof because this is a forum where people disagree. And alleging something is the case because you say so is obviously a case of circular reasoning and a deeply inadequate response. What's more, others have introduced actual independent evidence to support their case. 

What kind of proof do you want?

 

31 minutes ago, placeholder said:

"I didn't claim to do any "research".  I'm simply aware of how it is being used through experiencing it."

So you don't claim to have done research, yet you recommend the practice to others?

"Feel free to do your own research and reach your own conclusions.":

I don't need to research it because I know how it is used as I have experienced it (as I have pointed out several times).  If you do not have this experience, you might need to do some research.  What is difficult about that for you to understand?

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

What kind of proof do you want?

 

I don't need to research it because I know how it is used as I have experienced it (as I have pointed out several times).  If you do not have this experience, you might need to do some research.  What is difficult about that for you to understand?

Anyone not living in a cave has experienced the use of "woke". Some of us believe that citing only one's experience as justification for what we assert is inadequate because we understand that claims to personal objectivity are inherently suspect.

[BangkokReady]

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Anyone not living in a cave has experienced the use of "woke". Some of us believe that citing only one's experience as justification for what we assert is inadequate because we understand that claims to personal objectivity are inherently suspect.

Why are you asking me to provide evidence of something you claim that everybody knows?

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

Not in the slightest.  I'm simply filling in the holes in your knowledge.

 

I'm glad you are smart enough to at least acknowledge this.

 

No.  Not my idea or reasoning, but it's all about "gender".  "Gender" is apparently socially constructed, so you can change gender.

 

 "Sexuality" is about sexual attraction/orientation.

 

So the issue of who uses which toilet is one of gender, not sexuality.

 

Again, I'm not inventing anything.  You just don't know these things, so I am telling you.

 

Gender = what gender you are man/woman

 

Sexuality = who you find attractive men/women

 

Possibly you mean "biological sex"?  Which is more related to gender that sexuality is.  But most people would say that the two are sperate, hence a person with the biological sex male can use a women's bathroom, as their "gender identify" is a woman.  (Not my opinion.)

Instead of you telling us what you think these terms mean and proceeding as if the issue is settled (it isn't), why don't you give definitions from a credible source?  That would be something we could all work with.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

I wouldn't know where to begin.  Perhaps it's a little too abstract or "zeitgeisty" for me to be able to produce any single source.  Such is the nature of "the internet".

In other words; you have no source.  You are stating your opinions as facts.

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, heybruce said:

In other words; you have no source.  You are stating your opinions as facts.

I'm pretty sure he does have sources. Likely embarrassing ones so we'll never know.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Jingthing

[BangkokReady]

16 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Instead of you telling us what you think these terms mean and proceeding as if the issue is settled (it isn't), why don't you give definitions from a credible source?  That would be something we could all work with.

I'm not telling anyone what I think the word means.  I'm telling you how it is being used.

 

I notice you don't even bother to thank me for correcting you about sexuality and gender.  For those ones you can just take a look in a boring old dictionary.  You were literally wrong about the basic, boring, non-controversial dictionary meaning of those words.

[BangkokReady]

20 minutes ago, heybruce said:

In other words; you have no source.  You are stating your opinions as facts.

How is "I saw X" an opinion?

[onthedarkside]

Final reminder. If you make a claim on matters then, when asked for a link to provide evidence to that then please do so.

 

Troll post removed. Please be civil, a warning will be issued if this continues

 

Topic is:

Trump doesn’t like the term ‘woke’: ‘Half the people can’t even define it’

 

 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, BangkokReady said:

I'm not telling anyone what I think the word means.  I'm telling you how it is being used.

 

I notice you don't even bother to thank me for correcting you about sexuality and gender.  For those ones you can just take a look in a boring old dictionary.  You were literally wrong about the basic, boring, non-controversial dictionary meaning of those words.

This is truly laughable. As though how a word is being used differs from what it means. So a word can mean something  or somethings but is commonly used in a different way? Really?

[BangkokReady]

There is evidence galore, of course.  ????

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke (second meaning)

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/6/24/what-is-woke-culture-and-why-has-it-become-so-toxic

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/03/wokeness-definition-social-justice-racism/673416/

https://www.hollywoodintoto.com/ny-thollywood-going-woke-regrets/

https://www.outkick.com/hollywoods-woke-wall-starting-to-show-cracks/

 

Here are multiple links that support my definition of "woke" given above.  You can find many more by simply searching for: "woke meaning", "woke as a negative", "go woke; go broke", "woke Hollywood", and so on.

 

Sadly there are some users here who appear to really embody the line: "Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas."

[BangkokReady]

29 minutes ago, placeholder said:

This is truly laughable. As though how a word is being used differs from what it means. So a word can mean something  or somethings but is commonly used in a different way? Really?

Words can have different meanings and meanings can change over time.  ????‍♂️

 

How can you not know that?

[ozimoron]

4 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

I'm not sure I can give one single source, I'm afraid.

 

What a silly thing to say.  As I said, I'm merely reporting how it is being used.

So, most MAGA Republicans are illiterate?

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

There is evidence galore, of course.  ????

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke (second meaning)

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/6/24/what-is-woke-culture-and-why-has-it-become-so-toxic

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/03/wokeness-definition-social-justice-racism/673416/

https://www.hollywoodintoto.com/ny-thollywood-going-woke-regrets/

https://www.outkick.com/hollywoods-woke-wall-starting-to-show-cracks/

 

Here are multiple links that support my definition of "woke" given above.  You can find many more by simply searching for: "woke meaning", "woke as a negative", "go woke; go broke", "woke Hollywood", and so on.

 

Sadly there are some users here who appear to really embody the line: "Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas."

Here are your definitions of woke from your post yesterday:

 

Old definition (positive): Being aware of certain social/political/economic issues affecting certain marginalised and disadvantaged groups.  (E.g. "He's cool, he's woke to the things that affect us.")

 

New definition (negative): Trying to pander and virtue signal, making it appear that someone is trying to help the groups from the old definition but are actually doing so purely for personal gain.  (E.g. "Go woke, go broke.")

 

The only dictionary definition in your sources approximately agrees with your "Old definition".  However the dictionary's attempt to offer a negative definition of "woke" suffers from the same problem as before; the word is used as a pejorative with no clear meaning. 

 

You claim the new definition of woke is "Trying to pander and virtue signal..."  However you provide no evidence that your definition is the generally accepted definition.  I can assure you that people who consider themselves woke don't agree with it.  People who like to use woke as a pejorative might go along with it, but that does not make it the generally accepted definition.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

I'm not telling anyone what I think the word means.  I'm telling you how it is being used.

 

I notice you don't even bother to thank me for correcting you about sexuality and gender.  For those ones you can just take a look in a boring old dictionary.  You were literally wrong about the basic, boring, non-controversial dictionary meaning of those words.

Why would I thank you for obfuscating?

 

Here are accepted definitions:

 

sexuality

 

sĕk″shoo͞-ăl′ĭ-tē

noun

1. The quality of being sexual, especially sexual orientation and behavior.
2. A manner of being sexual or engaging in sexual activity.
3. Sexual activity.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.

 

 

gender

 

jĕn′dər

noun

1. A grammatical category, often designated as male, female, or neuter, used in the classification of nouns, pronouns, adjectives, and, in some languages, verbs that may be arbitrary or based on characteristics such as sex or animacy and that determines agreement with or selection of modifiers, referents, or grammatical forms.
2. The fact of being classified as belonging to such a category.
3. Either of the two divisions, designated female and male, by which most organisms are classified on the basis of their reproductive organs and functions; sex.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.

 

If you go back to the origin of this sexuality vs gender debate, you stated that this discussion is about gender, not sexuality.  However "woke" has nothing to do with biological sex or gender.  Woke people are open minded about people's sexuality and how they express it, but don't deny the biology of gender.

 

BTW:  One's choice of restrooms to use is an expression of chosen sexual preference.  Why don't you accept that and move on?

 

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by heybruce

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

There is evidence galore, of course.  ????

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke (second meaning)

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/6/24/what-is-woke-culture-and-why-has-it-become-so-toxic

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/03/wokeness-definition-social-justice-racism/673416/

https://www.hollywoodintoto.com/ny-thollywood-going-woke-regrets/

https://www.outkick.com/hollywoods-woke-wall-starting-to-show-cracks/

 

Here are multiple links that support my definition of "woke" given above.  You can find many more by simply searching for: "woke meaning", "woke as a negative", "go woke; go broke", "woke Hollywood", and so on.

 

Sadly there are some users here who appear to really embody the line: "Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas."

Everyone should read that Atlantic link.

Thank you!

 

 

"Now they can barely communicate what, precisely, they find problematic about “wokeness” and wish to correct. Hence, they end up using this word as an epithet to refer—vaguely—to seemingly anything changing in the culture that they don’t like. That is the critique they open themselves up to, in any event."

[BangkokReady]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Everyone should read that Atlantic link.

Thank you!

 

 

"Now they can barely communicate what, precisely, they find problematic about “wokeness” and wish to correct. Hence, they end up using this word as an epithet to refer—vaguely—to seemingly anything changing in the culture that they don’t like. That is the critique they open themselves up to, in any event."

"He's got the evidence we pretended he didn't have! Quick! Ignore the evidence and create a diversion!"

 

Talk about intellectual dishonesty.

 

You don't want people to be able to criticise a group that you support so you attempt to deny the existence of a term that facilitates that criticism.

[BangkokReady]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

Here are your definitions of woke from your post yesterday:

 

Old definition (positive): Being aware of certain social/political/economic issues affecting certain marginalised and disadvantaged groups.  (E.g. "He's cool, he's woke to the things that affect us.")

 

New definition (negative): Trying to pander and virtue signal, making it appear that someone is trying to help the groups from the old definition but are actually doing so purely for personal gain.  (E.g. "Go woke, go broke.")

 

The only dictionary definition in your sources approximately agrees with your "Old definition".  However the dictionary's attempt to offer a negative definition of "woke" suffers from the same problem as before; the word is used as a pejorative with no clear meaning. 

 

You claim the new definition of woke is "Trying to pander and virtue signal..."  However you provide no evidence that your definition is the generally accepted definition.  I can assure you that people who consider themselves woke don't agree with it.  People who like to use woke as a pejorative might go along with it, but that does not make it the generally accepted definition.

People said they don't know what it means. I gave an explanation. People asked for evidence of the word being used that way. I provided evidence.

 

There's not much more I can do. You obviously dislike the new use of the word so much that you're refusing to acknowledge its existence. ????‍♂️

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, BangkokReady said:

"He's got the evidence we pretended he didn't have! Quick! Ignore the evidence and create a diversion!"

 

Talk about intellectual dishonesty.

 

You don't want people to be able to criticise a group that you support so you attempt to deny the existence of a term that facilitates that criticism.

Stop lying.

I never denied the existence of the term.

I do think it's become a BS catch all term used primarily in the way described in your Atlantic quote. 

Not your previously stated explanation which you speciously and aggressively asserted as undeniable fact.

It was never that.

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

People said they don't know what it means. I gave an explanation. People asked for evidence of the word being used that way. I provided evidence.

 

There's not much more I can do. You obviously dislike the new use of the word so much that you're refusing to acknowledge its existence. ????‍♂️

The term "woke" as used by MAGA is nonsense and meaningless. NEVER do you see any explanation of what about woke is bad and why. The (slightly) more adult equivalent of nya nya nya.

Edited June 5, 2023 by ozimoron

[heybruce]

11 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

People said they don't know what it means. I gave an explanation. People asked for evidence of the word being used that way. I provided evidence.

 

There's not much more I can do. You obviously dislike the new use of the word so much that you're refusing to acknowledge its existence. ????‍♂️

I don't deny its existence, I deny that the people using it can give an accepted definition.  Your definition is not an accepted definition, regardless of how highly you regard it.

 

"Woke" is used as a non-specific pejorative by conservatives.  It is not used that way be anyone else.  That means it does not have an accepted definition.  It's use by conservatives is as specific as "poopy-head" and equally immature.

Edited June 5, 2023 by heybruce

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I don't deny its existence, I deny that the people using it can give an accepted definition.  Your definition is not an accepted definition, regardless of how highly you regard it.

 

"Woke" is used as a non-specific pejorative by conservatives.  It is not used that way be anyone else.  That means it does not have an accepted definition.  It's use by conservatives is as specific as "poopy-head" and equally immature.

I like that. Fascist DeSantis could change his messaging to Where Poopy-heads Go To Die.

[BangkokReady]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

Why would I thank you for obfuscating?

 

Here are accepted definitions:

 

sexuality

 

sĕk″shoo͞-ăl′ĭ-tē

noun

1. The quality of being sexual, especially sexual orientation and behavior.
2. A manner of being sexual or engaging in sexual activity.
3. Sexual activity.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.

 

 

gender

 

jĕn′dər

noun

1. A grammatical category, often designated as male, female, or neuter, used in the classification of nouns, pronouns, adjectives, and, in some languages, verbs that may be arbitrary or based on characteristics such as sex or animacy and that determines agreement with or selection of modifiers, referents, or grammatical forms.
2. The fact of being classified as belonging to such a category.
3. Either of the two divisions, designated female and male, by which most organisms are classified on the basis of their reproductive organs and functions; sex.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.

What are you talking about?  The above literally supports what I told you and goes against what you said when it comes to sexuality, and the gender thing is not how it is being applied today.

 

The whole toilet thing is about what you "identify as".  Not my terminology or opinion.

 

Do some research before you embarrass yourself further.

 

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

If you go back to the origin of this sexuality vs gender debate, you stated that this discussion is about gender, not sexuality.  However "woke" has nothing to do with biological sex or gender.  Woke people are open minded about people's sexuality and how they express it, but don't deny the biology of gender.

Again, not true.  I was responding to you.

 

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

BTW:  One's choice of restrooms to use is an expression of chosen sexual preference.  Why don't you accept that and move on?

Again, you're completely wrong here.  You think that people choose their bathrooms based on whether they're gay or straight?  This is simply not true and is ridiculous.

 

You're making no sense, again.

 

Please go back and read what you have written previously.  I'd rather not waste time on you posting evidence that supports what I said thinking it supports what you said, or crazy talk about toilets being chosen based on being gay or straight.

[BangkokReady]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Stop lying.

I never denied the existence of the term.

I do think it's become a BS catch all term used primarily in the way described in your Atlantic quote. 

Not your previously stated explanation which you speciously and aggressively asserted as undeniable fact.

It was never that.

I'm not lying about anything.

 

I gave a factual explanation about how a word is used.  I then provided evidence of its use in the way I explained.

 

You don't like that, so you're trying to deny it.  ????‍♂️

[BangkokReady]

11 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I don't deny its existence, I deny that the people using it can give an accepted definition.  Your definition is not an accepted definition, regardless of how highly you regard it.

 

"Woke" is used as a non-specific pejorative by conservatives.  It is not used that way be anyone else.  That means it does not have an accepted definition.  It's use by conservatives is as specific as "poopy-head" and equally immature.

This simply isn't true.  It isn't only used that way by conservatives.  It is used by various people, as I have experienced and shown.

 

You are denying the facts because you don't like them.

[ozimoron]

Just now, BangkokReady said:

I'm not lying about anything.

 

I gave a factual explanation about how a word is used.  I then provided evidence of its use in the way I explained.

 

You don't like that, so you're trying to deny it.  ????‍♂️

The word is misused, not used. MAGA people are illiterate, simple as that. The MAGA usage is not in the dictionary. How hard can it be to use the word in accordance with the dictionary definition unless the intention is to use it as a pejorative which is absolutely the intention of MAGA.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

I'm not lying about anything.

 

I gave a factual explanation about how a word is used.  I then provided evidence of its use in the way I explained.

 

You don't like that, so you're trying to deny it.  ????‍♂️

No!

You lied!

You accused me of denying the existence of a term.

I never did.

This is the straw that broke the camel's back.

Waste of time engaging further.

GOODBYE

Edited June 5, 2023 by Jingthing

[BangkokReady]

19 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The term "woke" as used by MAGA is nonsense and meaningless. NEVER do you see any explanation of what about woke is bad and why. The (slightly) more adult equivalent of nya nya nya.

""Woke" as used by MAGA", what does that even mean?

 

What about when non-"MAGA" people use it?  Is it still meaningless?