Some Imm Offices refusing to do the 'change of Visa process' (applying for 90-day Non Imm O Visa from a VisaExempt entry)

[gearbox]

1 hour ago, aluc said:

Two weeks is nothing. Tomorrow will be 6 weeks since I applied for Non-O at Phuket immigration and when I checked online my visa application status its still under processing.

Actually today is the last day of my permission to stay in Thailand, but IO said there is nothing I or they can do, just have to wait when application will be processed at Hat Yai.

 

Not sure if they will fine me for overstay if visa will not be ready on Tuesday.

No they won't fine you as you submitted documents and you are "under consideration". I was in the same boat a few years ago. Came with 2 months tourist visa after my O-A visa expired and proceeded to do visa change from tourist visa to Non-O retirement. "No possible mister!" It took me quite a few trips to the immigration office, the last with my gf "to convey the message" as I wasn't sure they understand me completely. In the end after a bit of "tea money" I was OKed, then it took them probably 6-7 weeks, I probably called them more than 10 times as it seemed I overstayed quite a bit my 2 months tourist visa.

 

Since then extended 3 times for 1 year, no problems with the extensions.

 

Needless to say my paperwork was meticulous and everything was done on time, probably the only mistake was that I had twice the required retirement extension amount in the bank book, around 1.6m, and it was early covid times, the hunger times at the Immigration..????

[chalawaan]

6 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

That was for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of RETIREMENT. 

A friend of mine after having 'killed' his Non Imm O-A Visa based Permit to stay by doing a border-run and returning VisaExempt < just like the 2 members quoted higher > did apply last week for his 90-day Non Imm O Visa (retirement) at the SriRacha (Chonburi) Imm Office and was successful in doing so.

But interestingly, the SriRacha Imm Officer also wanted pictures of him at the house of his girlfriend where he is staying, and pictures of him in the living room and bed-room. 

And on top of that the SriRacha kept his Passport, which he would only be able to get hold of again after the Divisional approval of his application.  So he will be 2-4 weeks without his Passport!  Is this even legal for Imm Offices to keep your Passport?

 

Of course they can keep your passport. It's an acceptable standard when applying for any visas with consideration or extensive background checks worldwide. 

The US Embassy do it in Australia. 

[chalawaan]

3 hours ago, Felton Jarvis said:

I had a similar problem at Jomtien Immigration. I came in on a tourist visa and had about two weeks left on it when I applied. The woman who is in charge of. the procedure threw a fit and told me two weeks was “not enough time”.  I had to go to Laos and get my “O Visa” there. Totally unnecessary because they can’t even pick their noses in a two week period. Unbelievable incompetence. 

Any Embassy would have something to say about that timeframe. I'm not defending the RTP here, it's just how Government types roll worldwide. 

Go and look at your home country requirements for residential visas, regardless of which nation, you hail from, the fees and timeframes will make your nose bleed. Six months wait is a great result in most cases. 

[DrJack54]

18 minutes ago, chalawaan said:

Of course they can keep your passport.

Thai immigration do not "keep your passport" during under consideration period. 

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

You seem to be missing the point,

You are missing the point. International convention is you enter a country with an appropriate visa, or are you trying to dispute that fact.

If people try and bypass the recognised procedures in place at Thai embassies and consulates and run into problems, for whatever reason, they have no grounds for complaint.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, proton said:

It's their OWN rules we want them to conforms to, not international convention

Make your mind up.   Everyday this forum is full of complaints about Thailands lack of international convention.

Only hypocrites want it both ways.

[Red Phoenix]

14 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You are missing the point. International convention is you enter a country with an appropriate visa, or are you trying to dispute that fact.

If people try and bypass the recognised procedures in place at Thai embassies and consulates and run into problems, for whatever reason, they have no grounds for complaint.

We are not talking about illegal immigrants.  Thailand allows many nationalities to enter the country VisaExempt.  And when you are granted your VisaExempt entry, the Permit to stay stamped in your passport is proof that you did meet the requirements.

Or are you trying to dispute that fact...

[Andrew Dwyer]

29 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You are missing the point. International convention is you enter a country with an appropriate visa, or are you trying to dispute that fact.

If people try and bypass the recognised procedures in place at Thai embassies and consulates and run into problems, for whatever reason, they have no grounds for complaint.

What on earth are you talking about  ?, you brought up international convention!!

If a process is in place to enter Thailand and apply for a non immigrant O visa and subsequent extensions based on marriage or retirement legally how is that contravening international convention ??

 

As usual you have learnt a new phrase and are going to use it at every opportunity despite it not being applicable to this thread .

[DrJack54]

34 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You are missing the point. International convention is you enter a country with an appropriate visa, or are you trying to dispute that fact

I would.

I guess due to the fact that citizens from 64+ countries can enter Thailand without a visa.

 

 

Edited June 4, 2023 by DrJack54

[flexomike]

4 hours ago, Felton Jarvis said:

I had a similar problem at Jomtien Immigration. I came in on a tourist visa and had about two weeks left on it when I applied. The woman who is in charge of. the procedure threw a fit and told me two weeks was “not enough time”.  I had to go to Laos and get my “O Visa” there. Totally unnecessary because they can’t even pick their noses in a two week period. Unbelievable incompetence. 

The rule is that you have to have at least fifteen days left at the time of application

[DrJack54]

3 minutes ago, flexomike said:

The rule is that you have to have at least fifteen days left at the time of application

True.... and at some immigration offices longer.

Example CM 21 days minimum

Edited June 4, 2023 by DrJack54

[Red Phoenix]

20 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

True.... and at some immigration offices longer.

Example CM 21 days minimum

And in Phuket 15 working days. 

[Dan O]

9 hours ago, Caldera said:

Because it's nonsense and you have presented nothing to back up your claim.

 

Official forms, official procedures. Some offices deviate, same as with extensions. 

Actually the IO have a lot of discretion available to accept or deny applications based on the info they are looking at and\or request additional documents or information. It's in the regs if you want to read thru them. I'm not saying they are correct in the manner they handle or communicate but they have discretion. In my opinion this is more fallout from the Chinese visa scandal and some offices not wanting to get questions and open a can of worms for themselves so easier to pass the problem off to another province or embassy. 

[swerve]

1 hour ago, flexomike said:

The rule is that you have to have at least fifteen days left at the time of application

Phuket wants 21 days minimum for a visa exempt to non-o conversion.  Not sure why they want this number.

[sirineou]

9 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

The member did a border-run and was refused a a 90-day Non Imm O Visa (retirement) after his VisaExempt return,

That makes no sense . Someone did a border run and returned visa exempt? then when he went to the immigration office they refused to give him a  90-day Non Imm O ? 

I often travel out of Thailand for lengths of time and being in a third country not wanting to bother getting a Non O visa at an unfamiliar place , I come back visa exempt and get it here. In the past three years two times. I never had a problem at the Khon Kaen office. 

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

That makes no sense . Someone did a border run and returned visa exempt? then when he went to the immigration office they refused to give him a  90-day Non Imm O ? 

You have not read the thread.

 

The thread is about a visa exempt entry at border and then attending immigration office to apply for non O retirement and being told "Not Possible" 

 

Point being is that it is possible but not at that particular immigration office. 

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

You have not read the thread.

 

The thread is about a visa exempt entry at border and then attending immigration office to apply for non O retirement and being told "Not Possible" 

 

Point being is that it is possible but not at that particular immigration office. 

You are right, I did not read the whole thread, I just read the op on which I assume the whole thread is based. In it it said and I quote. 

" And yesterday another AN member encountered same at ROI-ET Imm office.  The member did a border-run and was refused a a 90-day Non Imm O Visa (retirement) after his VisaExempt return, and also was told to apply at the Thai Embassy in Vientiane, Laos."

 

It was difficult to understand , but I think it said that a member in Roi Et "encountered same " and that he did "a border-run " as far as know a border run is when you cross the border to get a visa on your return. But he returned "after his VisaExempt return " . Why would someone do a visa run and return visa exempt?  Something does not end up , unless the Op is not a native english speaker and has trouble expressing his situation. 

To which I added that even though I am a long term resident , I come back often visa exempt and never had a problem .  Unless the case is not stated correctly in the OP , I think there must be some confusion here. 

Or perhaps I am confused , and if I am it will not be the first time. 

[DrJack54]

20 minutes ago, sirineou said:

You are right, I did not read the whole thread, I just read the op on which I assume the whole thread is based. In it it said and I quote. 

" And yesterday another AN member encountered same at ROI-ET Imm office.  The member did a border-run and was refused a a 90-day Non Imm O Visa (retirement) after his VisaExempt return, and also was told to apply at the Thai Embassy in Vientiane, Laos."

 

It was difficult to understand , but I think it said that a member in Roi Et "encountered same " and that he did "a border-run " as far as know a border run is when you cross the border to get a visa on your return. But he returned "after his VisaExempt return " . Why would someone do a visa run and return visa exempt?  Something does not end up , unless the Op is not a native english speaker and has trouble expressing his situation. 

To which I added that even though I am a long term resident , I come back often visa exempt and never had a problem .  Unless the case is not stated correctly in the OP , I think there must be some confusion here. 

Or perhaps I am confused , and if I am it will not be the first time. 

A "border run" generally refers to exit and reenter visa exempt.

Sometimes referred to as border bounce.

What makes it confusing is some folk have a ME Visa.

Often ME Non O based on marriage or retirement and need to exit Thailand every 90 days and refer to that as visa run.

 

Then of course some call a "visa run" an exit to actually apply for a Visa at a Thai consulate.

 

The examples in the OP  provided, think in one case killing off a non O-A in order to reenter visa exempt and use TM87 to apply for not O at Thai immigration office. 

That is possible however that immigration office refused to even accept application.

 

Edited June 4, 2023 by DrJack54

[sirineou]

35 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

A "border run" generally refers to exit and reenter visa exempt.

Sometimes referred to as border bounce.

What makes it confusing is some folk have a ME Visa.

Often ME Non O based on marriage or retirement and need to exit Thailand every 90 days and refer to that as visa run.

 

Then of course some call a "visa run" an exit to actually apply for a Visa at a Thai consulate.

 

The examples in the OP  provided were think in one case killing off a non O-A in order to reenter visa exempt and use TM87 to apply for not O at Thai immigration office. 

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!" LOL

Thank you for explaining that. 

After 18 years of coming to thailand  I no longer do visa runs, but when I did , I got an actual visa, (mostly from Laos)  and I would think especially now that the  frown upon visa runs

  I think the IOs think that you are trying to subvert the system, which of course you are.  Perhaps the Op had more than one previous :visa runs . In fact last year U came back from europe visa exempt twice   But as I said I came back visa exent often, but after having several extensions and perhaps it helps having gone to the immigration office . in khon Kaen enough time that they know me by my first name and while waiting on the chairs officers and the supervisor stop to say hi. 

Anyway as I said thank you for explaining this to me, 

Edited June 4, 2023 by sirineou

[BritTim]

50 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Why would someone do a visa run and return visa exempt? 

To bring you up to speed ...

 

He wanted to apply for a Non O visa at Immigration. This is possible on a visa exempt entry if you have enough time left on your current permission to stay. By doing a border run, he was able to receive the visa exempt entry that was a necessary prerequisite for the Non O visa application.

 

Clear now?

[foreverlomsak]

7 hours ago, aluc said:

Have there been any reports when Non-O visa application was accepted by local immigration but later rejected by IO from other province?

Never heard of one, either an initial (90 Day Non-O) application or a 12 month extension thereof, if it's accepted locally the divisional approval seems to be guaranteed, it just takes time.

If it's been accepted locally and then at divisional level, it cannot be rejected by another local office, unless there is something wrong, like applicant no longer meets the criteria for a further extension.

[CartagenaWarlock]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

If you had posted here beforehand you would have learned about the need to apply early.

How early? My friend got his through an agent and he said he had apply at least three weeks remaining on the permitted to stay date.

[DrJack54]

14 minutes ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

How early? My friend got his through an agent and he said he had apply at least three weeks remaining on the permitted to stay date.

The thread has ZERO to do with agents.

Did you even read and follow thread.

Yes agents some weeks to obtain non O and subsequent extension.

Nothing to do with this thread. 

[sirineou]

12 hours ago, BritTim said:

To bring you up to speed ...

 

He wanted to apply for a Non O visa at Immigration. This is possible on a visa exempt entry if you have enough time left on your current permission to stay. By doing a border run, he was able to receive the visa exempt entry that was a necessary prerequisite for the Non O visa application.

 

Clear now?

No it is not!! but thank you for asking.

In the link to the previous thread quoted in this he says:

 

" Yesterday, I have been to Mae Sai Immigration Office and they refused to allow me to apply for a Non O visa "retirement" because I currently have a Non OA extension of stay, even if I kill off it by doing a border bounce and come back with a 30 days visa exempt. 

 

They told me that I have to apply for a O visa "retirement" at the Thai Embassy in Vientiane, Laos"

 

What is wrong with that? if you are in Laos , why not get your" O visa "retirement" "  at the Thai embassy there? and come back visa exempt. I mean other than laziness and convenience.   And why shouldn't  the Thai IO in Thailand not be miffed for taking your laziness to him? 

Same applies for the Roi Et example.

If you are going to do a visa run to Laos (or anywhere else ) do it right,

  My friend went Vientiane two weeks ago, to extend his stay because he was using the income meathead and there was a problem with his last months deposit coming a few days early and being posted on the previous month, so he needed a couple of months to have the required amount of deposits. 

He went to the Thai embassy, got his visa . came back and has no problems. 

  IMO, people should not complain about the misfortunes resulting from their laziness. If the IO tells  you to to get a visa at the embassy of the country you are going on and not come back visa exempt. Do it.

 And before making border run check with your local immigration for their local requirements. 

 Finally ,develop a good relationship with the office you do business with, you will be amazed how many rincles a bit of good will smooths.

  But if not. Up tp you. Some enjoy spitting in the wind.  

Edited June 5, 2023 by sirineou
typo

[DrJack54]

Current thread regarding report of OP visa exempt entry to non O based on marriage at CW.

Smooth as silk.

So this thread is really about couple of rogue offices/officers.

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, sirineou said:

What is wrong with that? if you are in Laos , why not get your" O visa "retirement" "  at the Thai embassy there?

Because you shouldn't have to.

The process border bounce and kill off a non O-A and enter Thailand visa exempt and subsequently obtain non O at Thai immigration office is done routinely 

 

Current thread...

https://aseannow.com/topic/1291070-visa-exempt-to-non-o-marriage-visa-conversion-at-cw-requirements/

Edited June 5, 2023 by DrJack54

[sirineou]

Just now, DrJack54 said:

Current thread regarding report of OP visa exempt entry to non O based on marriage at CW.

Smooth as silk.

So this thread is really about couple of rogue offices/officers.

I did two visa exempt returns from Europe, on my last, I got my visa extension based on Marriage   no problems in fact they were very accommodating allow me to overstay for a few days to have my fuds property seasoned .

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, sirineou said:

.......in fact they were very accommodating allow me to overstay for a few days to have my fuds property seasoned .

That's good.

Some offices can be ridiculously "by the book" when it comes to seasoning.

 

Note for others: The funds only need to be in the bank on the day of application for Non O .

For the 12 month extension, funds required in bank for 2 months. 

Edited June 5, 2023 by DrJack54

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Because you shouldn't have to.

The process border bounce and kill off a non O-A and enter Thailand visa exempt and subsequently obtain non O at Thai immigration office is done routinely 

 

Current thread...

https://aseannow.com/topic/1291070-visa-exempt-to-non-o-marriage-visa-conversion-at-cw-requirements/

There plenty of things in life you "shouldn't have to" Jack. You know that.

TIT.

Path of least resistance has served me well in life where an idiot like me could retire comfortable and travel the world in a way that others much smarter than me can only dream of. 

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

That's good.

Some offices can be ridiculously "by the book" when it comes to seasoning.

 

Note for others: The funds only need to be in the bank on the day of application for Non O .

For the 12 month extension, funds required in bank for 2 months. 

I know, what can you do, Play the game. 

I keep the funds required deposited year round, . I do the marriage so it is only 400k. The best I can do in a safe investment environment in the US is 4.7%, the interest would only be something like $500 , not worth the trouble IMO  and that's in a 1 year treasury, a six month, that I would need if I has to sufle the money around is even les. 

 Anyway a month before my extension while abroad we purchases a property that became available there were funds scuffled by my  wife to cover the transaction until money was transferred from the US, and the balance feld a little below the required amount. The marriage extension  is not approved at the local office but elsewhere, That's why you get an " under consideration" stamp until it comes back, which sometimes it can take a month. So sometimes the IO hand are tied . being from a central office policy. or a supervisor. They have to protect their jobs also. You remember how it was when you worked, and corporate politics? 

It is easy for us to blame them, but they have a job to do with in the environment they exist. 

Anyway, always a pleasure to talk with you, especially in this rainy monday morning.