Toyota CEO: "This new engine will destroy the entire EV industry !

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You probably blew more than that the moment you drove it out of the showroom.

Actually I gained 11k baht.   Paid 949k, if totaled, insured value is 960k ????

 

I've owned 2 Vios and would never buy another.  Along with Mazda 2.  Fine for around town, but not over the road, as way too noisy.  Mazda just a wee bit better than the Vios.

[KhunLA]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Why? It's germane to my point ICE's can last a long time if they have to.

As should EVs.  Our battery is scheduled to last about 900k kms, and the electric motors, guessing will last just as long.   Not sure about the rest of the car, unless those kms are put on fast ????

[kwak250]

2 hours ago, BenStark said:

But what, if your claims come through that EV is a success story, and everyone is buying EV's now.

 

What are the chances that you are third of fourth in the queue at that single charging station?

 

 

Well if you were 4th in the queue then you will have time to go for a nice walk .
Maybe get on to Aseannow and start a topic about how free you feel without having to use dirty diesel
Have a cheesecake and coffee and tell everyone you have peed 3 times while waiting to charge your super clean ev

Edited June 17, 2023 by kwak250

[kwak250]

12 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Actually I gained 11k baht.   Paid 949k, if totaled, insured value is 960k ????

 

I've owned 2 Vios and would never buy another.  Along with Mazda 2.  Fine for around town, but not over the road, as way too noisy.  Mazda just a wee bit better than the Vios.

Good luck getting 960k from insurance .

Market value is all they will go no matter what insured value is.

[Lacessit]

15 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Actually I gained 11k baht.   Paid 949k, if totaled, insured value is 960k ????

 

I've owned 2 Vios and would never buy another.  Along with Mazda 2.  Fine for around town, but not over the road, as way too noisy.  Mazda just a wee bit better than the Vios.

Perhaps you are more of a leadfoot than I am, the Vios has gone all over Northern Thailand. CR CM Phitsanulok Ayutiya, Korat Chaiyapum Khon Kaen Udon Thani Loei Nan Phayao Phrao Phrae.

I am a convert to smaller cars, much more nimble.

Touch wood, no accidents after ten years driving in Thailand, scooter and car. I must be doing something right.

[KhunLA]

16 minutes ago, kwak250 said:

Good luck getting 960k from insurance .

Market value is all they will go no matter what insured value is.

I don't know what auto insurance company you use, but the policies I pay for, pay out what the policy states.

 

Past experiences, selling, the insured value was lower than the market value, as we got more than (10-20% more & quick sale) than insured value selling all our ICE cars in TH.  2 Vios, Mazda2 & MG ZS.  All sold for more than insured value.

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

Just now, Lacessit said:

Perhaps you are more of a leadfoot than I am, the Vios has gone all over Northern Thailand. CR CM Phitsanulok Ayutiya, Korat Chaiyapum Khon Kaen Udon Thani Loei Nan Phayao Phrao Phrae.

I am a convert to smaller cars, much more nimble.

Touch wood, no accidents after ten years driving in Thailand, scooter and car. I must be doing something right.

As did mine, and we average 20-25k kms a year, and sold all 3 (vios & m2 at about 150k kms mark).   Knew they were krap over the road (road noise), but really reinforced when we stepped up to the MG ZS.

 

Road noise and overall comfort level, the only negatives, and mostly the road noise.  Aside from that, fine cars for around town.  They served their purpose, inexpensive transport. 

 

Even though they were silly priced, but that's relative to car prices in the USA.  I think at the time, same was 25% less in USA.  Considering overhead in USA, that's embarrassing, and they really do rip off the Thai consumer when it comes to autos.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

You must have missed all the progress with battery tech. Or the post in this very thead where I mentioned Toyota announced 1200km range with charge times of 10min. We've just seen the start of batteries seeing so much investment due to the change to EVs. What other system do you think will be supperior to batteries? 10-20 years is a very short timeframe.

I know enough about electrical engineering to understand the kind of current which is necessary to charge a big battery in 10 minutes. Where do you get that from? From the socket in the wall?

 

 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

As did mine, and we average 20-25k kms a year, and sold all 3 (vios & m2 at about 150k kms mark).   Knew they were krap over the road (road noise), but really reinforced when we stepped up to the MG ZS.

 

Road noise and overall comfort level, the only negatives, and mostly the road noise.  Aside from that, fine cars for around town.  They served their purpose, inexpensive transport. 

 

Even though they were silly priced, but that's relative to car prices in the USA.  I think at the time, same was 25% less in USA.  Considering overhead in USA, that's embarrassing, and they really do rip off the Thai consumer when it comes to autos.

It makes much better financial sense to buy a low-mileage second hand car, and drive it into the ground. My son still has my 2004 AWD Mitsubishi Magna with 340 K on the odometer. One of the most under-rated cars ever built.

About 15 years ago, a manual Triton cost $19,000 in Australia. The same vehicle sold in Thailand, where it was built, for $24,000.

I can't say road noise from the Vios has ever bothered me, but then I put Michelin tyres on any car I own out of habit.

[KhunLA]

9 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It makes much better financial sense to buy a low-mileage second hand car, and drive it into the ground. My son still has my 2004 AWD Mitsubishi Magna with 340 K on the odometer. One of the most under-rated cars ever built.

About 15 years ago, a manual Triton cost $19,000 in Australia. The same vehicle sold in Thailand, where it was built, for $24,000.

I can't say road noise from the Vios has ever bothered me, but then I put Michelin tyres on any car I own out of habit.

I used to do that in USA, 30 yrs of driving, and only bought 1 new truck, and only for work, needing dependability.   Though no 2nd car that I owned, had ever left me stranded.  So I seem to pick them fairly well.

 

Here, only 21 years of owning cars, and on our 5th new one ????  Retired, so no need to conserve and save money for retirement.   Though can't say I was ever conservative, just thrifty.  Had 4 autos & 2 mb at one time.  "Honey, do you really need all those" ... "yea, be quiet" ????  Wifey @ 2 didn't last long.

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I know enough about electrical engineering to understand the kind of current which is necessary to charge a big battery in 10 minutes. Where do you get that from? From the socket in the wall?

I understand the currents required too. Have worked with cables and transformers in the MW range. Again, what's thee issue for the grid? There are plenty of places using such amounts already, it's really nothing new. Tesla superchargers already do 250kW and they plan 1MW for the trucks. Don't forget current is one part of the equation, these things don't operate at 220V single phase.

[Yellowtail]

6 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Most of the shopping malls with indoor parking ban any LPG/CNG parking, I can't see them allowing Hydrogen cars.

I have never heard of this, do you have anything that support your claim?

 

Virtually all the taxies are LPG/CNG, as are many delivery trucks and personal cars. 

 

LPG/CNG is no more dangerous than petrol. 

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I used to do that in USA, 30 yrs of driving, and only bought 1 new truck, and only for work, needing dependability.   Though no 2nd car that I owned, had ever left me stranded.  So I seem to pick them fairly well.

 

Here, only 21 years of owning cars, and on our 5th new one ????  Retired, so no need to conserve and save money for retirement.   Though can't say I was ever conservative, just thrifty.  Had 4 autos & 2 mb at one time.  "Honey, do you really need all those" ... "yea, be quiet" ????  Wifey @ 2 didn't last long.

I have had 3 new cars, a 1974 Honda Civic, a best forgotten 1984 Ford Laser, and the AWD 2004 Mitsubishi Magna. The rest of the time, company cars which were traded in at 120,000 km - barely run in.

IMO the Magna was the best car I have ever owned. Years ahead of its time, brilliant engineering, but poorly marketed.

It's a commentary on how cars have bulked up over the years when the 1974 Civic weighed in at 800 kg., and the 2023 Civic is a tad over 1300 kg.

I've only been married one time, that was enough.

[JBChiangRai]

12 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I have never heard of this, do you have anything that support your claim?

 

Virtually all the taxies are LPG/CNG, as are many delivery trucks and personal cars. 

 

LPG/CNG is no more dangerous than petrol. 

I have first hand experience, albeit, about 8 years ago.  We had a Mitsubishi Pajero converted to LPG to collect customers for an adventure business.  When I went to Central Mall the security guard told me I had to park outside with LPG.

 

It's extremely common in Europe, about half the countries ban LPG Parking on lower floors and you can't use the UK-FR Channel Tunnel with an LPG car.  The Park2Go app in Thailand often directs you to LPG only spots.

[eisfeld]

13 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I have never heard of this, do you have anything that support your claim?

 

Virtually all the taxies are LPG/CNG, as are many delivery trucks and personal cars. 

 

LPG/CNG is no more dangerous than petrol. 

I remember seeing a sign at Mega Bangna that prohibited parking inside for LPG vehicles. It is of course more dangerous than petrol because the explosions can be much more violent and can even damage the structure of these buildings. Many of the cars like taxis in Thailand have been converted to support LPG/CNG by who-knows to varying standards of quality. That's why they don't like them. They didn't come like that from the factory. It's not easy to spot such vehicles when entering the parking houses so enforcement is nearly impossible.

[herfiehandbag]

10 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Car is usually done topped up or 80% before we are.  Just stopping to smell the coffee, and maybe some cheesecake, or that double pork burger, or some Kha Moo, if hungry ... works for us. 

Ah, but have you considered the emissions involved in brewing the coffee, baking the cheesecake, grilling the double pork burger?

[JBChiangRai]

43 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

I remember seeing a sign at Mega Bangna that prohibited parking inside for LPG vehicles. It is of course more dangerous than petrol because the explosions can be much more violent and can even damage the structure of these buildings. Many of the cars like taxis in Thailand have been converted to support LPG/CNG by who-knows to varying standards of quality. That's why they don't like them. They didn't come like that from the factory. It's not easy to spot such vehicles when entering the parking houses so enforcement is nearly impossible.

LPG is banned in all condo's here by law.

[xtrnuno41]

5 kg H2 for 300 mile radios. It s good, but then you have to fill up again.

Who is going to do so? Storage of H2 is on pressure of 200-700 bar.

Thats why you have the big tank. I wonder what are the connections from fuel station to car. So checked on internet and it shows this.

Looks like ordinary fuel handles. So am a bit puzzled.

 We already have busses on H2, non combustion types. However those busses are 200000 euro/bus more expensive then an only battery driven and can drive less km,

375 km to 450 km. Well done !

132.400 euro only for H2 cell and 130000 euro for maintenance in the cell live of 30000 hours, 1 million km.

What you come up to when you start checking. IM not surprised my government is doing such things. They also bought F35's with 700 hard & software failures.

 

So is Renault already delivering H2 vans, non combustion types.

You read on and then Hyundai and Iveco also deliver and then:

6 tanks 12 kg H2, pressure 350 bar and it takes 15 minutes to fill !! But again non combustion engines. The Toyota then would take about 5 minutes?

Then you also have white, blue, green, purple, gray H2. you also have at pump then, with different prices?

 

Lithium is quite a rare metal on earth, yes it is found but never the less rare.

In Chili in the desert, they are extracting Li, by injecting 20000 ltr/SEC water in the soil.

Of course the water has to be real clean, no other minerals, as that gives more problems with electrolysis. More waste, as there will be waste, or maybe not, as you can use the other minerals as well. But then you need additional processes.

 

However I think H2 is the new petrol. 

They can change CO2 back into fuel again, but all depends on ..money.

[kickstart]

13 hours ago, KhunLA said:

If I, the wife gets 20 yrs out of our EV, she'll be more than happy.

 

They make perfect sense to us, and IF you had one, you'd probably understand why.

 

Experience usually is a better judge of things, over barstool gossip.

The Thai's regular get 20 years plus out of a pickup/car so 20 years with an EV could well be done.

But, the cost of replacing the batteries after X years could be the big X factor.

[kwak250]

8 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I don't know what auto insurance company you use, but the policies I pay for, pay out what the policy states.

 

Past experiences, selling, the insured value was lower than the market value, as we got more than (10-20% more & quick sale) than insured value selling all our ICE cars in TH.  2 Vios, Mazda2 & MG ZS.  All sold for more than insured value.

 

Wow you might get 1.2 mil for a used MG?

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

Ah, but have you considered the emissions involved in brewing the coffee, baking the cheesecake, grilling the double pork burger?

or accessing the internet/AN, if not having solar ????

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, kickstart said:

The Thai's regular get 20 years plus out of a pickup/car so 20 years with an EV could well be done.

But, the cost of replacing the batteries after X years could be the big X factor.

I think better simply to add the battery pack to our home solar system.  If only 50-75% capacity, still more than the 20kWh ESSs we have now.

 

Use the motors for some, maybe the gate or lift for the tower ????

 

Surely in 20 yrs, a well developed after market will pop up.

[Lacessit]

7 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I think better simply to add the battery pack to our home solar system.  If only 50-75% capacity, still more than the 20kWh ESSs we have now.

 

Use the motors for some, maybe the gate or lift for the tower ????

 

Surely in 20 yrs, a well developed after market will pop up.

A new Nissan Leaf in Australia is $69,000. The cheapest used Nissan Leaf ( 8 years old ) is $15,000. That is serious depreciation, more than $6000 a year.

I know the Leaf has a poor reputation. Having said that, I would say buyer doubts about battery life in secondhand EV's is going to inhibit that market for some time to come.

Conversely, the Toyota Prius ( Hybrid ) seems to hold its value quite well, presumably because a buyer knows even if the battery is kaput, they still have the ICE for backup.

[KhunLA]

41 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

A new Nissan Leaf in Australia is $69,000. The cheapest used Nissan Leaf ( 8 years old ) is $15,000. That is serious depreciation, more than $6000 a year.

I know the Leaf has a poor reputation. Having said that, I would say buyer doubts about battery life in secondhand EV's is going to inhibit that market for some time to come.

Conversely, the Toyota Prius ( Hybrid ) seems to hold its value quite well, presumably because a buyer knows even if the battery is kaput, they still have the ICE for backup.

The Nissan Leaf is the perfect example of corporate price gouging when there is little competition.   Here/TH, because of the new competition, and their krap rep, they cut their price by more than half.

Even that's false advertising, as they were selling for 1.5M around March 2020, or so I read.

 

Then there is this little tidbit, that counters the silly notion that Leaf batteries have to be replaced in a few years:

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/09/21/surprise-nissan-leaf-batteries-last-much-longer-than-expected/

 

AU really does suck for auto buying, as Leaf cost more the 2X what it costs here.

Edited June 18, 2023 by KhunLA

[vinny41]

59 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

The Nissan Leaf is the perfect example of corporate price gouging when there is little competition.   Here/TH, because of the new competition, and their krap rep, they cut their price by more than half.

Even that's false advertising, as they were selling for 1.5M around March 2020, or so I read.

 

Then there is this little tidbit, that counters the silly notion that Leaf batteries have to be replaced in a few years:

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/09/21/surprise-nissan-leaf-batteries-last-much-longer-than-expected/

 

AU really does suck for auto buying, as Leaf cost more the 2X what it costs here.

Since March 2020 Leaf was selling for  1,490,000 I think you will have to go back November 2018 for the 1,990,000 baht so I wouldn't call that recent

https://www.headlightmag.com/special-price-nissan-leaf-ev-100/

 

https://www.headlightmag.com/official-price-nissan-leaf-ev-100-thailand/

 

The final price of 959,000 was when Nissan Thailand decided to stop selling the Nissan leaf in Thailand

Final Call ! Nissan LEAF 100% electric car: 959,000 baht (imported CBU) | 311 km. distance (NEDC)

https://autolifethailand.tv/final-call-nissan-leaf-ev-bev-959000/

So the final price was nothing to do with what you posted it was simply they were withdrawing car from Thailand market

 

In Australia a new Nissan leaf+ is selling for $64,051 as shown here

https://www.nissan.com.au/vehicles/browse-range/leaf/specs-and-pricing.html#grade-29673-1 and the leaf+ was never available in Thailand

 

Comparing Nissan leaf and Nissan leaf+ is like comparing MG ZS generation 1 (2019) and current MG ZS (2023) completely different cars in my view

Edited June 18, 2023 by vinny41
add

[JBChiangRai]

The problem with the Nissan Leaf is it's the only BEV car I know of with passive air cooling, consequently, it's unsuitable for hot climates.

 

That is probably why they withdrew it from sale here.

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

A new Nissan Leaf in Australia is $69,000. The cheapest used Nissan Leaf ( 8 years old ) is $15,000. That is serious depreciation, more than $6000 a year.

I know the Leaf has a poor reputation. Having said that, I would say buyer doubts about battery life in secondhand EV's is going to inhibit that market for some time to come.

Conversely, the Toyota Prius ( Hybrid ) seems to hold its value quite well, presumably because a buyer knows even if the battery is kaput, they still have the ICE for backup.

Wrong. The depreciation is only high the first few years.

 

 

[brianthainess]

On 6/17/2023 at 1:31 AM, bignok said:

People like the sound of fuel cars.

And dogs....

[vinny41]

Interesting Battery options and pricing from Chinese brand Nio

Nio is offering its Chinese customers to either purchase a car with Battery or purchase a car without a battery and providing a Battery rental service.

Battery can be charged in the normal method or at a Battery swap out station

where you can get a replacement fully charged battery in 5 minutes 

with the battery as a service option you never own the battery so no worries about battery degradation

if you have the 75-kwh battery and you need more powerful battery for long road trip you can rent 100-kwh battery for one month and then swap back to 75-kwh battery

https://www.drive.com.au/news/new-nio-battery-swap-stations-europe/

 

NIO ET5 Touring prices in China

Starting price with battery

75-kWh    ¥298,000 RMB
100-kWh    ¥356,000 RMB

Starting Price without Battery
75-kWh ¥228,000 RMB
100-kWh    ¥228,000 RMB

Battery monthly rental price
75-kWh ¥980 RMB
100-kWh ¥1,680 RMB
paying battery monthly rental for 71.5 months for 75-kwh will be the same as buying car with battery
paying battery monthly rental for 76 months for 100-kwh will be the same as buying car with battery

https://cnevpost.com/2023/06/15/nio-launches-et5-touring/

NIO Launches Battery as a Service

https://www.nio.com/news/nio-launches-battery-service

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

The Nissan Leaf is the perfect example of corporate price gouging when there is little competition.   Here/TH, because of the new competition, and their krap rep, they cut their price by more than half.

Even that's false advertising, as they were selling for 1.5M around March 2020, or so I read.

 

Then there is this little tidbit, that counters the silly notion that Leaf batteries have to be replaced in a few years:

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/09/21/surprise-nissan-leaf-batteries-last-much-longer-than-expected/

 

AU really does suck for auto buying, as Leaf cost more the 2X what it costs here.

I suspect this guy is much better informed than you are when it comes to the Nissan Leaf.

What really sucks in Australia is the auto lobby group obstructing importation of used vehicles, in the guise of protecting the Australian new car industry.