Being wrong in this forum

[xtrnuno41]

38 minutes ago, xtrnuno41 said:

Why ever you would get upset about an emoticon?

Get a grip on your life and carry on.????????????????????????????

jeepers who put confused emoticon on my comment, how dare you. 

[Walker88]

10 hours ago, cliveshep said:

Now not joking, to fredwiggy and Walker88 and others who wish to bring the contentious issue of religion into the post, can I offer a few bible verses that might shed light?

 

The mysteries of God and His works are not for us to know in entirety, Higgs Boson not withstanding. In the Bible Isaiah 42:8 puts it succinctly - "I will not share my glory with another". Or perhaps Deuteronomy 29:29 - "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever,..........". Not everything is capable of being revealed to science, much is in the realm of faith alone and if you expect to expose the nature of God without that vital ingredient you are barking up the wrong tree entirely because as Hebrews 11:6 puts it "........without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him".

 

So one must conclude that God will not reveal His power to an unbeliever in general although that is not exclusive, and scientists will never prove God except by observing what is plain to see for everyone, quarks and Higg's bosons being part of a marvellous whole. Psalm 139:14 expressed that almost 3000 years ago and in all that time not one scientist can declare David wrong. The very abundance of diversity of life and the inanimate and the microscopic complexity in all living creatures, the varieties of human looks and traits as supposedly dictated by DNA are too vast to be the result of a "big bang". Any so-called "intellectual" who thinks that big bangs created life in all it's complexities and variances is clearly lacking in cognisant abilities.

Because you lack the knowledge to understand, there must be a Zeus. Or Yahweh. Or Allah.

 

For you, the Earth is flat. That's an analogy, but you are essentially a flat Earther, as what you are incapable of understanding you attribute to a deity or deities, just as folks who could not possibly conceive of gravity KNEW the Earth must be flat.

[EVENKEEL]

Bring in the middle finger choice.

[Skipalongcassidy]

13 hours ago, save the frogs said:

most people just don't respond to me when they don't want to hear what i have to say ... 

Maybe if you had something worthwhile to say you would get more responses... just a thought

[brianthainess]

17 hours ago, Sticky Rice Balls said:

bargirls tend to like it..the 200 bt kind

I prefer a BJ to an OJ the 500b kind.

[Neeranam]

Emojis are for kids, not grown ups. 

[onthedarkside]

Comments on moderation removed

[sirineou]

12 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Emojis are for kids, not grown ups. 

Only eggplants are for adult's 

[BritManToo]

On 7/7/2023 at 9:47 AM, cliveshep said:

Now not joking, to fredwiggy and Walker88 and others who wish to bring the contentious issue of religion into the post, can I offer a few bible verses that might shed light?

Nothing wrong with having imaginary friends, it's the obvious answer for the socially challenged.

[brianthainess]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Emojis are for kids, not grown ups. 

 guess my teacher was right at age 11 on my report she wrote,

" Brian is childish'' I was 11yrs old

[NanLaew]

On 7/6/2023 at 10:13 AM, sirineou said:

I often get the confused emoji at some of my posts. I don't get it! If you are confused about something wouldn't the  most prudent course be to as a question?

or If you think I am wrong about something point it out, and if indeed I am wrong I would say fair enough, or stand corrected (Just dind yesterday) ,

Who among us have never been wrong? and if indeed you have been wrong in the past , as all of us have, why is it not possible that we are wrong now? 

If I still think I was right , state why I think so ,and provide quotes and links 

Are we here to have a conversation or are we here to arbitrarily judge?

I  know a bunch of wise ass guys will post  a bunch of confused emojis to this OP , I know I would if this was someone else post, ????

Unfortunately you are not allowed to post reactions to your own post???? 

Since the emoji's are no longer attributed to the member posting them, how do you know the confused aren't engaging you more fully in a subsequent post? Since the emoji is a pretty limited form of communication, depending on your comment post or opinion, maybe they are sharing your confusion?

 

Aren't emoji's the domain of the inarticulate and slothful anyway?

[sirineou]

 

56 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Since the emoji's are no longer attributed to the member posting them, how do you know the confused aren't engaging you more fully in a subsequent post? Since the emoji is a pretty limited form of communication, depending on your comment post or opinion, maybe they are sharing your confusion?

 

Aren't emoji's the domain of the inarticulate and slothful anyway?

Would it not be better that they engage me in this one , since is is the one they seem to be confused about.

or 

or are you saying this is a kumbaya moment?

This is all very confusing .

[Speedhump]

I think most people who use that emoji aren't confused by the post, they just feel it's dumb or wrongheaded. If there was a face-palm emoji they'd probably use that's instead.

[Trippy]

This forum has so many closed minded people looking for an argument, leaving an emoji kinda gets your point across without the risk of a personal attack. 

 

Sad, but true.

[ozimoron]

On 7/6/2023 at 11:27 AM, bignok said:

How can an opinion be wrong? Post links they say.

This. There's nothing wrong with being wrong but if required to post links and actually do due diligence in researching any fact that you think is a fact will reduce the chances of being wrong. By a lot.

 

I find it mildly annoying when people post facts, mislabeled as "opinions" when they know they can't substantiate the fact or know it's actually wrong. It's worse when the misinformation is posted in pursuit of some political agenda. For my part I am very particular about posting links to claims. I wish more posters would care as much.

[ozimoron]

28 minutes ago, Trippy said:

This forum has so many closed minded people looking for an argument, leaving an emoji kinda gets your point across without the risk of a personal attack. 

 

Sad, but true.

No it doesn't. A reply post gets your point across. Personal attacks aren't necessary to make a point.

[bignok]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

This. There's nothing wrong with being wrong but if required to post links and actually do due diligence in researching any fact that you think is a fact will reduce the chances of being wrong. By a lot.

 

I find it mildly annoying when people post facts, mislabeled as "opinions" when they know they can't substantiate the fact or know it's actually wrong. It's worse when the misinformation is posted in pursuit of some political agenda. For my part I am very particular about posting links to claims. I wish more posters would care as much.

Post a link

[ozimoron]

Just now, bignok said:

Post a link

Links are required to substantiate claims of fact. One, but not the only hint that helps distinguish a claim of fact is a reference to numbers, either directly or indirectly. You obviously need some help is figuring out which posts need a link and which don't. It seems to be common around here,

[bignok]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

Links are required to substantiate claims of fact. One, but not the only hint that helps distinguish a claim of fact is a reference to numbers, either directly or indirectly. You obviously need some help is figuring out which posts need a link and which don't. It seems to be common around here,

That was too easy.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, bignok said:

That was too easy.

I didn't want to use the T word at the time so I thought I'd be a little more subtle. That's the other main issue with this forum.

[fredwiggy]

On 7/8/2023 at 10:52 AM, BritManToo said:

Nothing wrong with having imaginary friends, it's the obvious answer for the socially challenged.

I assume you think I am socially challenged because this post you're commenting on is related to me? You might want to change your thinking because I have hundreds of friends that I grew up with and still talk and do things with. In the course of a lifetime, most people can only count the number of real friends they can really count on on one hand. That is also true with me, but the others are still friends I can visit in a moments notice and have good talks and times with. That is the opposite of socially challenger as far as I know. God isn't imaginary to believers. He's imaginary to those that have been hurt in their lives and refuse to believe a God would allow this, not taking into consideration that we all have free will, and much of the time we are hurt it is brought on by ourselves or bad choices. People are evil because they have been raised in an evil environment or have nothing positive to turn to, so take their anger out on others to feel something. No, I nor anyone else can prove God exists, so we go on faith. Religion isn't my thing and it was made by people. being a believer doesn't mean you have to have a religion to go on. You just believe in God. Believing in science is believing in other people, who make mistakes. Granted, a lot of what scientists have discovered is true, but much is based on hypotheses. No one has ever proven how the universe came about. They have made a lot of discoveries about the universe they didn't know before telescopes and computers came into play, but still are making a lot of guesses about it's origin. We have been taught over the ages about God, and if you look around, like another has mentioned, you can see the miracles of life, all of which didn't just happen by chance and come from nothing. Everyone has a right to believe in anything they want, and it's no one's place to force them into thinking their way is right. We all will talk to God when we die, and for some of us, that will be too late. It doesn't matter what you believe, you can think the way you want. Think back on when you started to be a non believer. What happened earlier to make you change your mind about God? Some ignorant people have even gone as far as assuming that some here don't have the mental capacity to understand science, and so go with what they've been "brainwashed" for years. Not realizing that the person they could be commenting on could have an IQ over 150 and be a reader since childhood, on subjects that would confuse or amaze them. There are multitudes of other subjects besides astronomy that require intense thinking. My own dad had a genius level IQ and was the smartest man I've still ever known. Electronics, (built his own Ham radio) photography, (own darkroom before digital came into practice) magic, (tricks that would amaze Kreskin,close pov magic) and worked as a supervisor for a government related company in New Jersey over 30 years. Taught me to be a reader. My interests are music, health sciences, psychology, hunting, fishing, and I am also interested in astronomy, although as an observer of other's discoveries. I don't claim to know a lot about the universe besides what I've heard or read growing up, but my stance will never change. You have to have proof before something is taken as a fact. Otherwise it's faith, believing what other's have said and what you feel in your heart and mind. Throughout time, some teachers have been wrong, and many believe in them. and others are extremely knowledgeable and others think they are quacks.

[SAFETY FIRST]

On 7/6/2023 at 10:13 AM, sirineou said:

I often get the confused emoji at some of my posts. I don't get it! If you are confused about something wouldn't the  most prudent course be to as a question?

Yep, I'm the same, it's irritating, some members are only here to antagonize. 

 

It used to be worse, the emoji's are now incognito so you don't get as many. 

 

[fredwiggy]

On 7/7/2023 at 3:06 PM, Myran said:

You constantly come up with these walls of text that has absolutely zero substance. You're typing hundreds of words where the only take-away is: "Nuh-uh! I already knew that! And God did it, only a fool couldn't see that!". With absolutely nothing to back it up.

 

Faith has zero value in this context. Faith is believing something despite there being no reason to, besides the fuzzy, warm feeling it gives you inside. I have never had any faith and have not "stopped believing".

 

What made you not believe in the other 4999 gods that are claimed to exist, and why is your fairytale more believable than the thousands of others that also claim to be true? You would be claiming that Hinduism has the right answers equally as vehemently, had you been brought up Hindu. It has zero to do with any evidence or proof you've seen in the world.

 

As to justifying your god murdering and torturing children with the diseases he has created, I won't even comment. It's so wicked and absolutely disgusting.

Because something someone writes is confusing to you doesn't mean that is has no substance. Because I can't prove God exists doesn't mean he doesn't. Because a few scientists have made a few guesses that the universe might have come about by an explosion of sorts, also doesn't mean it happened. It's faith, something you have in people (some) and not in a God, for reasons only you know. You've said you have never had faith. Why is that? Were your parents atheists also? That would explain some of it, but as you went into the world, you've heard people say there is a God, and looking around, you must have wondered how all of life came to be. That is, unless you're a teenager and only heard what scientists have come up with in the last 20 years or so. I went to a Catholic school for 8 years, and religion was taught daily, and I went to church every Sunday. I'm  just a Christian now and I don't think any religion is necessary and some are downright blatant about greed. Some teach that we have different lives, with also no proof. Many teach to praise a man, or a statue, which is wrong if there is but one God. If there were more than one God, we would surely see them fighting for control, and proving themselves who is the better choice. Our one God doesn't need to do anything besides watch us believe or fall. That's what faith is. He may have put diseases here, and let children die of cancer, and of course I think that suffering is wrong, but if you take into consideration we rarely live past age 90, and compare that to forever, there's none. This to me is a test of sorts. If he indeed made everything, he has the right to make his own laws, and if you look at what his laws are, they aren't just made to honor him, but to protect us from ourselves and others. Of course I believe we should live longer lives, and be disease free, and he should show himself and only a fool wouldn't follow him and be good, at least most of the time, but that's again where faith and free will come in. He gives us the chance to choose. You have made yours, and you will see when you die, if there is just blackness, or is there a coming in front of him, and explaining yourself why you chose to turn your back on him. Then he will decide where you end up. I'm not taking that chance.

[BritManToo]

29 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I assume you think I am socially challenged because this post you're commenting on is related to me? You might want to change your thinking because I have hundreds of friends that I grew up with and still talk and do things with. In the course of a lifetime, most people can only count the number of real friends they can really count on on one hand. That is also true with me, but the others are still friends I can visit in a moments notice and have good talks and times with. That is the opposite of socially challenger as far as I know. God isn't imaginary to believers. He's imaginary to those that have been hurt in their lives and refuse to believe a God would allow this, not taking into consideration that we all have free will, and much of the time we are hurt it is brought on by ourselves or bad choices. People are evil because they have been raised in an evil environment or have nothing positive to turn to, so take their anger out on others to feel something. No, I nor anyone else can prove God exists, so we go on faith. Religion isn't my thing and it was made by people. being a believer doesn't mean you have to have a religion to go on. You just believe in God. Believing in science is believing in other people, who make mistakes. Granted, a lot of what scientists have discovered is true, but much is based on hypotheses. No one has ever proven how the universe came about. They have made a lot of discoveries about the universe they didn't know before telescopes and computers came into play, but still are making a lot of guesses about it's origin. We have been taught over the ages about God, and if you look around, like another has mentioned, you can see the miracles of life, all of which didn't just happen by chance and come from nothing. Everyone has a right to believe in anything they want, and it's no one's place to force them into thinking their way is right. We all will talk to God when we die, and for some of us, that will be too late. It doesn't matter what you believe, you can think the way you want. Think back on when you started to be a non believer. What happened earlier to make you change your mind about God? Some ignorant people have even gone as far as assuming that some here don't have the mental capacity to understand science, and so go with what they've been "brainwashed" for years. Not realizing that the person they could be commenting on could have an IQ over 150 and be a reader since childhood, on subjects that would confuse or amaze them. There are multitudes of other subjects besides astronomy that require intense thinking. My own dad had a genius level IQ and was the smartest man I've still ever known. Electronics, (built his own Ham radio) photography, (own darkroom before digital came into practice) magic, (tricks that would amaze Kreskin,close pov magic) and worked as a supervisor for a government related company in New Jersey over 30 years. Taught me to be a reader. My interests are music, health sciences, psychology, hunting, fishing, and I am also interested in astronomy, although as an observer of other's discoveries. I don't claim to know a lot about the universe besides what I've heard or read growing up, but my stance will never change. You have to have proof before something is taken as a fact. Otherwise it's faith, believing what other's have said and what you feel in your heart and mind. Throughout time, some teachers have been wrong, and many believe in them. and others are extremely knowledgeable and others think they are quacks.

tl;dr

[ozimoron]

36 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Because something someone writes is confusing to you doesn't mean that is has no substance. Because I can't prove God exists doesn't mean he doesn't. Because a few scientists have made a few guesses that the universe might have come about by an explosion of sorts, also doesn't mean it happened. It's faith, something you have in people (some) and not in a God, for reasons only you know. You've said you have never had faith. Why is that? Were your parents atheists also? That would explain some of it, but as you went into the world, you've heard people say there is a God, and looking around, you must have wondered how all of life came to be. That is, unless you're a teenager and only heard what scientists have come up with in the last 20 years or so. I went to a Catholic school for 8 years, and religion was taught daily, and I went to church every Sunday. I'm  just a Christian now and I don't think any religion is necessary and some are downright blatant about greed. Some teach that we have different lives, with also no proof. Many teach to praise a man, or a statue, which is wrong if there is but one God. If there were more than one God, we would surely see them fighting for control, and proving themselves who is the better choice. Our one God doesn't need to do anything besides watch us believe or fall. That's what faith is. He may have put diseases here, and let children die of cancer, and of course I think that suffering is wrong, but if you take into consideration we rarely live past age 90, and compare that to forever, there's none. This to me is a test of sorts. If he indeed made everything, he has the right to make his own laws, and if you look at what his laws are, they aren't just made to honor him, but to protect us from ourselves and others. Of course I believe we should live longer lives, and be disease free, and he should show himself and only a fool wouldn't follow him and be good, at least most of the time, but that's again where faith and free will come in. He gives us the chance to choose. You have made yours, and you will see when you die, if there is just blackness, or is there a coming in front of him, and explaining yourself why you chose to turn your back on him. Then he will decide where you end up. I'm not taking that chance.

As we look around us we see a plethora of observational evidence that we are profoundly similar to many other species in many ways. This weighs heavily against the notion that we are aloof from other creatures. Unless you believe that since God created everything he was just being lazy and just mixed up the pieces in the jigsaw puzzle. 

[fredwiggy]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

As we look around us we see a plethora of observational evidence that we are profoundly similar to many other species in many ways. This weighs heavily against the notion that we are aloof from other creatures. Unless you believe that since God created everything he was just being lazy and just mixed up the pieces in the jigsaw puzzle. 

The earth was made with species, including us and our needs, in mind. We all require food, water and air. I agree with some that some species should not be here, as in they don't help the rest of them, but that still remains to be seen.

[Myran]

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

Because something someone writes is confusing to you doesn't mean that is has no substance. Because I can't prove God exists doesn't mean he doesn't. Because a few scientists have made a few guesses that the universe might have come about by an explosion of sorts, also doesn't mean it happened. It's faith, something you have in people (some) and not in a God, for reasons only you know. You've said you have never had faith. Why is that? Were your parents atheists also? That would explain some of it, but as you went into the world, you've heard people say there is a God, and looking around, you must have wondered how all of life came to be. That is, unless you're a teenager and only heard what scientists have come up with in the last 20 years or so. I went to a Catholic school for 8 years, and religion was taught daily, and I went to church every Sunday. I'm  just a Christian now and I don't think any religion is necessary and some are downright blatant about greed. Some teach that we have different lives, with also no proof. Many teach to praise a man, or a statue, which is wrong if there is but one God. If there were more than one God, we would surely see them fighting for control, and proving themselves who is the better choice. Our one God doesn't need to do anything besides watch us believe or fall. That's what faith is. He may have put diseases here, and let children die of cancer, and of course I think that suffering is wrong, but if you take into consideration we rarely live past age 90, and compare that to forever, there's none. This to me is a test of sorts. If he indeed made everything, he has the right to make his own laws, and if you look at what his laws are, they aren't just made to honor him, but to protect us from ourselves and others. Of course I believe we should live longer lives, and be disease free, and he should show himself and only a fool wouldn't follow him and be good, at least most of the time, but that's again where faith and free will come in. He gives us the chance to choose. You have made yours, and you will see when you die, if there is just blackness, or is there a coming in front of him, and explaining yourself why you chose to turn your back on him. Then he will decide where you end up. I'm not taking that chance.

Again, wall of text with zero substance. As usual, I might add, with religious people with absolutely zero to back up their claims.

 

"Because I can't prove God exists doesn't mean he doesn't."

 

You can't prove a purple, invisible, intangible unicorn isn't pooping on your head, therefore we might as well assume it exists and make sure to worship it, lest we end up in poopy unicorn hell.

 

"You've said you have never had faith. Why is that? Were your parents atheists also?"

 

Nope, they had a slight belief in "something bigger" because they were brought up in Christian homes. But I was encouraged to make up my own mind, making it easy to come to the conclusion that religion is a bunch of fairytales people came up with thousands of years ago to explain what they saw in the world, since they didn't have the means to explain what it actually was.

 

"I went to a Catholic school for 8 years"

 

Say no more. You're brainwashed and you have my deepest sympathies.

 

"Some teach that we have different lives, with also no proof."

 

Hahaha, so that's where you draw the line in regard to proof, eh?

 

"If he indeed made everything, he has the right to make his own laws"

 

And you have the right to decide whether or not the incredibly evil, petty, violent, murdering, enslavement-endorsing, and overall nasty god of the Bible is worthy of praise and worship. You have decided that it is so, not because you're a good person, but because you want to be rewarded. Really says a lot about Christians, that they would worship something so incredibly evil and not just turn a blind eye to, but actually try to justify all it's evil, disgusting deeds, just for their own benefit.

 

I'd rather spend my life focused on my actual life, for there is zero reason to believe there's gonna be anything after it. On top of that, I do good deeds and help others not because of the promise of divine rewards, but because I'm actually a good person.

[fredwiggy]

18 minutes ago, Myran said:

Again, wall of text with zero substance. As usual, I might add, with religious people with absolutely zero to back up their claims.

 

"Because I can't prove God exists doesn't mean he doesn't."

 

You can't prove a purple, invisible, intangible unicorn isn't pooping on your head, therefore we might as well assume it exists and make sure to worship it, lest we end up in poopy unicorn hell.

 

"You've said you have never had faith. Why is that? Were your parents atheists also?"

 

Nope, they had a slight belief in "something bigger" because they were brought up in Christian homes. But I was encouraged to make up my own mind, making it easy to come to the conclusion that religion is a bunch of fairytales people came up with thousands of years ago to explain what they saw in the world, since they didn't have the means to explain what it actually was.

 

"I went to a Catholic school for 8 years"

 

Say no more. You're brainwashed and you have my deepest sympathies.

 

"Some teach that we have different lives, with also no proof."

 

Hahaha, so that's where you draw the line in regard to proof, eh?

 

"If he indeed made everything, he has the right to make his own laws"

 

And you have the right to decide whether or not the incredibly evil, petty, violent, murdering, enslavement-endorsing, and overall nasty god of the Bible is worthy of praise and worship. You have decided that it is so, not because you're a good person, but because you want to be rewarded. Really says a lot about Christians, that they would worship something so incredibly evil and not just turn a blind eye to, but actually try to justify all it's evil, disgusting deeds, just for their own benefit.

 

I'd rather spend my life focused on my actual life, for there is zero reason to believe there's gonna be anything after it. On top of that, I do good deeds and help others not because of the promise of divine rewards, but because I'm actually a good person.

Assuming things you know nothing about again. It would be best if you stopped replying because it just shows hate and ignorance. I am neither brainwashed or need any sympathy from you. Actually, I feel sorry that your mind is closed to God, because he is the only chance you have to have anything after this life. I've mentioned that I'm not into any particular religion, being a Christian, looking at Jesus as God's son and our best chance at entering Heaven. I am a good, decent person, for the way I treat my significant other, my children and other people, and that won't get me into Heaven like knowing God will. You're saying God is evil and he created people in the first place, you being one of them. People can be evil, as many world leaders have shown us. Answer me one question. Just how do you think this world came to be? Because anyone that believes that the universe just happened by chance isn't too bright, as there has never been any proof otherwise. A creator now, that makes sense, especially as I've mentioned, the earth is the only planet we know that has life, and it just happened to occur just the exact distance from our sun to enable life to occur, and has everything life needs to sustain itself. A stroke of luck perhaps? And how did this life happen? All from one explosion many years ago, and out of this explosion came not just all the planets and stars in the universe, but all the species on earth, and the intricacies of the human brain and it's wonders of creation itself? Everything every species, including us, needs to survive is here. Another wall of text, with no substance? You haven't said one word to support another possibility. If you don't believe there's a God, why do you call him a murderer, petty, evil, nasty or enslavement endorsing, when it's people who have done this since the beginning? He has reasons why he doesn't yet intervene, or maybe he sometimes has, and we haven't seen it. People, including children, have come back from being clinically dead, and have mentioned seeing something, and children of telling things they couldn't possibly have known. A Myanmar monk was dead for three days, and about to be burned at the temple, when he came back, and mentioned he saw Buddha in hell. Hard to explain. Things happen all the time with no explanation, miracles have happened, or are they just coincidences?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

11 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I am a good, decent person, for the way I treat my significant other, my children and other people, and that won't get me into Heaven like knowing God will.

Unless you include the 3 divorces you claim to have initiated, which is not only an indication of how you treat your significant others, but which would prohibit you from attending Catholic church, services, burial on hallowed grounds or ascent to heaven. IMHO (and God's) 3 divorces = not a Christian and no entry to heaven.

[fredwiggy]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Unless you include the 3 divorces you claim to have initiated, which is not only an indication of how you treat your significant others, but which would prohibit you from attending Catholic church, services, burial on hallowed grounds or ascent to heaven. IMHO (and God's) 3 divorces = not a Christian and no entry to heaven.

That's why opinions carry no weight. Even God himself allows divorce, for some things. And it is hard to stay in marriages where you are taken advantage of, where your wife kidnaps your child because she's a covert narcissist, cheating, physical or mental abuse, drug addiction or alcoholism. I claimed initiation because I did initiate. And that has absolutely no indication of how I treat women. A man doesn't read 65 books and thousands of articles on relationships, depression, parenting and family matters if he wants to hurt others. Quite the contrary, it's usually the women who read the books to try and help their marriages and relationships with their men. If that doesn't give you a clue, then you'll never understand the psychological aspect of getting to know a woman as more than a transaction. I treat women as well or better than any man alive, and I know this because the books I've read are from psychologists and counselors who have interviewed hundreds of thousands of couples who had relationship problems and then tried to help them. And I know what women have said that irks them about a man, and what they wanted and needed from them. And I thought you didn't believe in God, so why are you quoting what can't be done? I did say I'm not a Catholic anymore, and I can still attend any of their services if I wanted to. As far as ascending into heaven, that's between me and the God I believe in. He knows my heart, no matter what I've done.