PRESS RELEASE: End Frozen Pensions For British Ex-Pats In Thailand

[scottiejohn]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

The blame for that can be traced back to Clem Attlee and the Labour government back in 1948 when the state pension was brought in. 

 

Very few people were expats back in 1950 and life expectancy was about 67 or 68 years. Now it is 81  with less people paying in and more people claiming.

 

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/life-expectancy

Actually UK pensions started much earlier!

The beginning of the modern state pension was the Old Age Pensions Act 1908, which provided 5 shillings (£0.25) a week for those over age 70 whose annual means did not exceed £31 10s. (£31.50).

[treetops]

7 hours ago, JohnInThailand said:

Please let me know how you can get a pension with only 5 years NI contributions.  All the info I have found on the www states the you must have at least 10 years!  I only have 7 years....

You can buy missing years.  The poster you quoted said he worked 5 years and bought 10 with maybe more ongoing..

[Neeranam]

21 hours ago, JohnInThailand said:

Please let me know how you can get a pension with only 5 years NI contributions.  All the info I have found on the www states the you must have at least 10 years!  I only have 7 years....

I have 29 years contributions, I think. I said I only worked for 5 years in the UK. 

The years I was unemployed and at secondary school/university count. 

Also, I paid 10 years at once in voluntary contributions and continue paying yearly. I decided to do this when I found out I could ay back 10 years for 66,000 baht. These are class 2 contributions.

[billzant]

This is a warning concerning frozen pensions and tax codes.

 

Retiring in Thailand I knew that my pension would be frozen. I assume it is. Every year the only information I get about my pension is a tax code letter. I can check my bank account for how much goes in, but with all the different economic variables that amount is always changing.

 

Because my pension is frozen, I didn’t check the tax code; I just assumed frozen is frozen, and they were unjustly taking my money. That was a mistake, and that is what I am warning the forum about. I discovered that my tax code was changing, and that I was paying more tax based on the assumption that I had received an increased pension – the uprated pension – the non-frozen pension.

 

So I was receiving a frozen pension but being taxed on an uprated pension.

 

I discovered this back in May, and I had hoped to write this forum post with a result ie tax rebate. Far from it. Today I have just received a form from HMRC about double tax treaties – “DT-individual”, and it appears the Thai tax authority has to sign it.

I accept that I should have checked the tax code but I just presumed it would be correct. I check my pension payments when they come into my bank account, but even now I cannot see a pattern that would show this tax code problem – so many other economic factors that affect how much you get.

And the worst of it is that this tax code problem has been going on for 5 years. Even if I ever get it sorted, they have told me I can only get tax back for 4 years. They made the error in the tax code they sent me, I missed the error, but they say now they will not rectify their error for my 1^st year of pension. Frozen pensioners will be used to such UK government injustice.

 

If you have kept your tax code letters you can see whether the calculation of the tax code has used the uprated pension or not. As far as I understand frozen pensions, the pension should be the same on all the tax code forms.

 

I would not want anyone to be in this mess I am in - trying to reclaim tax. This warning is to ask you to check your tax code when you get it at the beginning of next year, and check your past tax code letters to see that your frozen pension has not been increased in their calculation.

[Liverpool Lou]

16 minutes ago, billzant said:

I would not want anyone to be in this mess I am in - trying to reclaim tax. This warning is to ask you to check your tax code when you get it at the beginning of next year, and check your past tax code letters to see that your frozen pension has not been increased in their calculation.

What is this "tax code letter"?  I've been receiving a state pension for six years and have had no correspondence about it since it started.

[billzant]

5 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

What is this "tax code letter"?  I've been receiving a state pension for six years and have had no correspondence about it since it started.

Every year I receive a letter from HMRC saying what my tax code is. I get it early in the year before it is applied in the April.

[scubascuba3]

7 hours ago, billzant said:

This is a warning concerning frozen pensions and tax codes.

 

Retiring in Thailand I knew that my pension would be frozen. I assume it is. Every year the only information I get about my pension is a tax code letter. I can check my bank account for how much goes in, but with all the different economic variables that amount is always changing.

 

Because my pension is frozen, I didn’t check the tax code; I just assumed frozen is frozen, and they were unjustly taking my money. That was a mistake, and that is what I am warning the forum about. I discovered that my tax code was changing, and that I was paying more tax based on the assumption that I had received an increased pension – the uprated pension – the non-frozen pension.

 

So I was receiving a frozen pension but being taxed on an uprated pension.

 

I discovered this back in May, and I had hoped to write this forum post with a result ie tax rebate. Far from it. Today I have just received a form from HMRC about double tax treaties – “DT-individual”, and it appears the Thai tax authority has to sign it.

I accept that I should have checked the tax code but I just presumed it would be correct. I check my pension payments when they come into my bank account, but even now I cannot see a pattern that would show this tax code problem – so many other economic factors that affect how much you get.

And the worst of it is that this tax code problem has been going on for 5 years. Even if I ever get it sorted, they have told me I can only get tax back for 4 years. They made the error in the tax code they sent me, I missed the error, but they say now they will not rectify their error for my 1^st year of pension. Frozen pensioners will be used to such UK government injustice.

 

If you have kept your tax code letters you can see whether the calculation of the tax code has used the uprated pension or not. As far as I understand frozen pensions, the pension should be the same on all the tax code forms.

 

I would not want anyone to be in this mess I am in - trying to reclaim tax. This warning is to ask you to check your tax code when you get it at the beginning of next year, and check your past tax code letters to see that your frozen pension has not been increased in their calculation.

Have you tried logging into your HMRC account? Usually you use your tax ID. May show more info including tax code, I'd expect so.

 

The tax code change is because (apart from the part you mention) your income is greater than the personal allowance so need to pay tax via tax code? So not just basic pension

Edited November 8, 2023 by scubascuba3

[noobexpat]

12 hours ago, billzant said:

This is a warning concerning frozen pensions and tax codes.

 

Retiring in Thailand I knew that my pension would be frozen. I assume it is. Every year the only information I get about my pension is a tax code letter. I can check my bank account for how much goes in, but with all the different economic variables that amount is always changing.

 

Because my pension is frozen, I didn’t check the tax code; I just assumed frozen is frozen, and they were unjustly taking my money. That was a mistake, and that is what I am warning the forum about. I discovered that my tax code was changing, and that I was paying more tax based on the assumption that I had received an increased pension – the uprated pension – the non-frozen pension.

 

So I was receiving a frozen pension but being taxed on an uprated pension.

 

I discovered this back in May, and I had hoped to write this forum post with a result ie tax rebate. Far from it. Today I have just received a form from HMRC about double tax treaties – “DT-individual”, and it appears the Thai tax authority has to sign it.

I accept that I should have checked the tax code but I just presumed it would be correct. I check my pension payments when they come into my bank account, but even now I cannot see a pattern that would show this tax code problem – so many other economic factors that affect how much you get.

And the worst of it is that this tax code problem has been going on for 5 years. Even if I ever get it sorted, they have told me I can only get tax back for 4 years. They made the error in the tax code they sent me, I missed the error, but they say now they will not rectify their error for my 1^st year of pension. Frozen pensioners will be used to such UK government injustice.

 

If you have kept your tax code letters you can see whether the calculation of the tax code has used the uprated pension or not. As far as I understand frozen pensions, the pension should be the same on all the tax code forms.

 

I would not want anyone to be in this mess I am in - trying to reclaim tax. This warning is to ask you to check your tax code when you get it at the beginning of next year, and check your past tax code letters to see that your frozen pension has not been increased in their calculation.

 

When you became non uk tax resident, you were expected to tell hmrc via form P85. I guess you didn't??

[noobexpat]

If you are non resident you should have a NT tax code. 

 

[mikebell]

On 11/9/2023 at 5:06 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Have you tried logging into your HMRC account? Usually you use your tax ID. May show more info including tax code, I'd expect so.

 

The tax code change is because (apart from the part you mention) your income is greater than the personal allowance so need to pay tax via tax code? So not just basic pension

I started a whole thread about HMRC's 'scam' in August.  I was just back from UK where my daughter phoned them.  Eventually they admitted I'd been overtaxed for possibly 15 years at first blaming DWP then admitting they had assumed I was on a full state pension (ATM it's exactly double what I get now.)  I was promised back tax on three years; I've had two, totalling 5000UKP.  Apparently it's your job to check they are doing their job correctly.  Like some above posters no documents have been sent or at least delivered to my Thai address.  The YouGov website has not been in existence for all of the missing overpaid years but there's no appeal system beyond three years. 

[IvorBiggun2]

Can't say I'm angry that my State Pension is frozen being as I receive benefits from the UK DSS which are increased every year. So that, more than, makes up for it. Before coming to Thailand I did notify the DSS that I was in receipt of some benefits but they said that 'once issued it's for life' even if living abroad. 

[noobexpat]

1 hour ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Can't say I'm angry that my State Pension is frozen being as I receive benefits from the UK DSS which are increased every year. So that, more than, makes up for it. Before coming to Thailand I did notify the DSS that I was in receipt of some benefits but they said that 'once issued it's for life' even if living abroad. 

 

Name of the benefit? I'm struggling to believe. Happy to be proven!

[mikebell]

On 7/31/2023 at 2:18 PM, billd766 said:

My day came in May 2009 and it has stayed at that rate for the last 14 years.

Mine has been frozen for 16 years but HMRC has taxed me as if I received the full rate currently DOUBLE what I get now!

[IvorBiggun2]

18 hours ago, noobexpat said:

Name of the benefit? I'm struggling to believe. Happy to be proven!

Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit

 

War Pensioners Mobility Supplement

Edited November 11, 2023 by IvorBiggun2

[proton]

2 hours ago, mikebell said:

Mine has been frozen for 16 years but HMRC has taxed me as if I received the full rate currently DOUBLE what I get now!

 

Full pension is still under the tax free allowance, so not taxed yet on state pensions

[billd766]

4 hours ago, mikebell said:

Mine has been frozen for 16 years but HMRC has taxed me as if I received the full rate currently DOUBLE what I get now!

That, I am afraid to say is something that you will have to sort out with HMRC. The DWP actually pay your pension  and should notify HMRC of the amount. and HMRC should set your tax code correctly'

 

For the last 15 working years of my life I was self employed and filled in my tax form on line. I carried on for another 5 years until HMRC took it over and during that time up to the current period both my RAF pension and my company pension inform HMRC and then HMRC alter my RAF pension tax code and leave my company pension at the 20% tax rate.

 

You have all my good wishes in getting the tax rate set correctly, and TBF to them, once it does get sorted, they may reduce your tax payable to zero, or perhaps you will get a tax refund in the form of a cheque. They are unlikely to pay interest on that amount.

 

The best of luck to you.

[steve187]

On 7/28/2023 at 11:49 AM, JayClay said:

There are no illegal immigrants in the UK. Certainly not enough costing the government 7 million pounds per day, anyway.

 

What we do have is a backlog of asylum claims that are not being processed by the authorities. People who claim asylum are not illegal immigrants. People who are deneid asylum are deported. 

 

The current government is refusing to tax energy companies, who are posting profit increases of 900% so, yea, if they don't have enough money then it's entirely of their own making. But, yea, let's get angry at people fleeing war-torn countries instead.

 

A tory government is never going to increase the pensions of retirees living abroad. I doubt any party would be very much in favor of it to be honest, but if you want any chance of it ever happening, it won't be the current lot.

do you believe what you posted,  if so you must be a Politian, everyone that enters the UK in a plastic dinghy is an illegal immigrate, and needs to be placed in a  detention camp or deported

[mikebell]

20 hours ago, proton said:

 

Full pension is still under the tax free allowance, so not taxed yet on state pensions

State pensions are included in your annual total income (I have 2 other pensions) then the final sum is taxed.  DWP tell HMRC what my pension is and then for 15 years they have ignored it & assumed I was on the full unfrozen rate.  I have received over 5K back from their mistake for only the last 3 years of their error.

[Henryford]

Richi will shower billions on his gimme grants but wouldn't give a penny to Britons.

[KannikaP]

22 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit

 

War Pensioners Mobility Supplement

I am so glad that I am not eligible for either of them.

[maxcorrigan]

On 7/27/2023 at 4:10 PM, Surasak said:

Over the past 75 years it has all been wasted by successive governments. Not one of them has ever been worth a light and wouldn't give you the drippings from their nose on a cold winters day. This went to the ECHR a few years back and was thrown out, so no chance. UK governments have learnt a lot from Scrooge over the years, and still building on it. 

True, that well known labour socialist Tony Blair fought tooth and nall to get it stopped and thrown out, been ongoing now for something like 75 years so not much chance of getting it changed, that was one thing Corbin agreed with saying it was grossly unfair (refering to frozen pensions), had he got in of course like most mps would have dropped it. But saying that Kudos to those trying to get changed never give up!

Just my 2 penny worth to this old thread!

[maxcorrigan]

1 hour ago, mikebell said:

State pensions are included in your annual total income (I have 2 other pensions) then the final sum is taxed.  DWP tell HMRC what my pension is and then for 15 years they have ignored it & assumed I was on the full unfrozen rate.  I have received over 5K back from their mistake for only the last 3 years of their error.

Could you elaberate on that Mike, i've often thought of doing the same but did'nt know where to start TIA

i have another private pension as well as the DWP pittance so get taxed on the total of the 2 pensions i receive

[Bangkok Barry]

On 7/28/2023 at 11:49 AM, JayClay said:

There are no illegal immigrants in the UK. Certainly not enough costing the government 7 million pounds per day, anyway.

 

What we do have is a backlog of asylum claims that are not being processed by the authorities. People who claim asylum are not illegal immigrants. People who are deneid asylum are deported. 

 

The current government is refusing to tax energy companies, who are posting profit increases of 900% so, yea, if they don't have enough money then it's entirely of their own making. But, yea, let's get angry at people fleeing war-torn countries instead.

 

A tory government is never going to increase the pensions of retirees living abroad. I doubt any party would be very much in favor of it to be honest, but if you want any chance of it ever happening, it won't be the current lot.

 

Excellent post. Can't argue against any of it, but I'd add that there is nothing in it for them for any government to allow pension increases for expats. It isn't going to cost them votes. I do find it odd though that certain Commonwealth countries don't get the increase but other countries do. Canada no, USA yes, for example.

[maxcorrigan]

1 minute ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Excellent post. Can't argue against any of it, but I'd add that there is nothing in it for them for any government to allow pension increases for expats. It isn't going to cost them votes. I do find it odd though that certain Commonwealth countries don't get the increase but other countries do. Canada no, USA yes, for example.

It might cost them votes most of public comments i have read (mostly women) are against us getting any increase, if anything it seems they would vote for pensions to be completely stopped for expats JMO of course!

[NoshowJones]

On 7/27/2023 at 1:25 PM, billd766 said:

There are NO dedicated MPs for pensioners who are affected by this. There are NO votes in it for any MP, so why would they vote to spend even more of the taxpayers money to increase our pensions?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salaries_of_members_of_the_United_Kingdom_Parliament#:~:text=MPs normally receive a pension,accrual rate of 1%2F40th.

 

Basic salary
The basic annual salary of an MP in the House of Commons is £86,584.[1] That is more than 10 times my annual frozen pension rate.

 

Pension
MPs normally receive a pension of either 1/40th or 1/50th of their final pensionable salary for each year of pensionable service depending on the contribution rate they chose. Members who made contributions of 13.75% of their salary gain an accrual rate of 1/40th.[24]

If an MP stands down during the course of a Parliament due to ill health, an ill health retirement grant is payable, calculated in the same way as the Resettlement Grant (as well as an immediate pension based on the service the MP would have accrued if they had continued to serve until age 65).

 

There is a lot more information in the link including 

Resettlement Grant

Winding-up Allowance

Office expenses

Housing, second home, and travel

 

 

True Bill, and how many of these MP's have jobs on the side, Company Directors, lawyers etc and still pick up their full MP's salary?

[NoshowJones]

On 7/27/2023 at 1:39 PM, bkk6060 said:

Wow, a USA govt pension max is around $4500 now.

The UK around $1,000?

How sad, anyone ever inquire what they have done with all the money?

MP's expenses and second mortgages etc,

[NoshowJones]

On 7/27/2023 at 2:42 PM, champers said:

It was in the Labour Party manifesto at the last election and now they are more sympathetic than other parties.

Vote Labour! ????

"It was in the Labour Party manifesto at the last election and now they are more sympathetic than other parties."

Really???? Labour are bigger liars and hypocrites than all the other political parties put together. The party of the working man????

If anyone really believes this then think carefully about it.

In my adult lifetime, in all the years up till now, the very vast majority of governments have been Tories, and this being in a country

of maybe around 80% working class.

If Labour are really the party of the working class, ask yourself why this is, ask yourself why the Tories have been in office for so much longer than Labour in your adult lifetime.

[brianthainess]

Has anyone recently sent in or received a prove of life form while 'Living' in the UK, was it a one page form or two?. There seem to be a lot of different ones from my search. 

 

[champers]

16 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

"It was in the Labour Party manifesto at the last election and now they are more sympathetic than other parties."

Really???? Labour are bigger liars and hypocrites than all the other political parties put together. The party of the working man????

If anyone really believes this then think carefully about it.

In my adult lifetime, in all the years up till now, the very vast majority of governments have been Tories, and this being in a country

of maybe around 80% working class.

If Labour are really the party of the working class, ask yourself why this is, ask yourself why the Tories have been in office for so much longer than Labour in your adult lifetime.

So the Conservatives have had more opportunity to right the wrong - but haven't. 

I don't particularly favour either Labour or the Tories but the fact is Labour had a manifesto commitment at the last election. Anyway, that was in 2019. No manifestos issued yet for 2024.

[NoshowJones]

On 7/28/2023 at 2:11 PM, 747man said:

Then You are Committing FRAUD......

and the UK government are not????