Opinion Editorial: No, It Isn’t Time to Worry About RETIREMENT VISA Changes….Yet

[webfact]

Of all our stories in the past week, one particular story, indeed basically just a small portion of the overall story, sent shockwaves through the retired ex-pat community and the rumour mill was set on fire.

We are referring to this article about Thai police cracking down on foreign criminal motorbike clubs following it being discovered that the prime suspect in the brutal murder and dismemberment of a German businessman in Pattaya was allegedly a prominent member of one of these clubs.

 

It isn’t the crackdown on motorbike clubs that upset and disturbed many of our readers, leading to various E-mails and messages, but a statement in the article attributed to deputy national police chief General Surachate Hakparn, arguably the most well-known police officer in Thailand and former Chief of Thai Immigration.

 

The statement and excerpt that shook up many readers is below:

 

Deputy National Police Chief Pol Gen Surachate Hakparn stated that the gang members tend to favor Thailand due to the lack of strict law enforcement and corrupt officials.

 

He cited the outdated 1979 Immigration Act, which allows foreigners aged above 50 to easily live in Thailand only if they have 800,000 baht in their bank account or an income certificate with a monthly salary not less than 65,000 baht.

 

This also tended to be the case of the suspects in Mack’s murder.

 

Due to the existence of these dangerous gangs, aware foreign tourists feel discouraged to visit Pattaya or invest in the Eastern Seaboard, causing huge damage to the country, Pol Gen Surachate said.

 

Thus, the RTP needs to regain trust from tourists by not only eradicating these gangs but also some Thai officials who clandestinely aid them.

 

As part of the efforts, Pol Gen Surachate promised that he would propose an amendment to the immigration law, especially concerning retirement visa extensions, through the police chief once a new government takes office. This aims to filter out bad people and make the law truly helpful for investors or someone who innocently want to live in Thailand.

 

We here at TPN media wanted to take a closer look at these statements after trying to answer many individual comments and messages over the past week or so.

 

First, as an individual of great influence with both the Royal Thai Immigration and Royal Thai Police, when Mr. Hakparn speaks it is best to listen. He is well known for many reforms and changes, many admittedly unpopular to foreigners, when in charge of Thai Immigration.

 

By Adam Judd

TOP: File photo for reference only

 

Full story: https://thepattayanews.com/2023/08/05/opinion-editorial-no-it-isnt-time-to-worry-about-retirement-visa-changes-yet/

 

-- © Copyright The Pattaya News 2023-08-05

 

- Cigna offers a range of visa-compliant plans that meet the minimum requirement of medical treatment, including COVID-19, up to THB 3m. For more information on all expat health insurance plans click here.

[scubascuba3]

Forget increasing financial limits that won't help at all, do a criminal record check instead

[Pumpuynarak]

2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Forget increasing financial limits that won't help at all, do a criminal record check instead

BINGO

[stoner]

15 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Forget increasing financial limits that won't help at all, do a criminal record check instead

i'm sure agents will help with a criminal record check if you cant provide one. 

[ezzra]

45 minutes ago, webfact said:

Deputy National Police Chief Pol Gen Surachate Hakparn stated that the gang members tend to favor Thailand due to the lack of strict law enforcement and corrupt officials.

Well. at least he speaks the truth however a badge of shame it is.

[jerrymahoney]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Thus, the RTP needs to regain trust from tourists by not only eradicating these gangs but also some Thai officials who clandestinely aid them.

Friends of the agents?

[sammieuk1]

BJ just doesn't want his Lexus shot up again especially by foreign crims that's bad publicity taking away a job a Thai could do ????

[scubascuba3]

24 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Friends of the agents?

Difficult for agents to differentiate between Olaf type criminals and retired pensioners.

 

Maybe time to get rid of people with tattoos

[mokwit]

What the article misses is that major changes can be made by police order without need for a new Immigration act. All the changes/new requirement have been done this way. They can change the financial requirements, ask for additional documents such as criminal record history, they can even drop clauses in the law (TM28). Did they increase the amount required for the old Bt 3m investment Visa (to 10m?) or drop it all together? Maybe they can drop the current retirement extension.

 

All kinds of new visa classes have been offered (by TE BoI MOFA), all but the Elite have onerous requirements such as criminal record checks. The OX aimed at high GDP per capita country applicants requires you to take the time and money to have a blood test to show you don't have Elephantiasis, leprosy and TB. these are very rare in these countries and you are far more likely to catch them here.

 

The below requirements are for issuance of the OX extension once you are in country. BTW, you have to go to Imm and reqaulify EVERY year.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwidscHpqMSAAxX_7TgGHcTPDNYQFnoECAsQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbangkok.immigration.go.th%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2022C1_20.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1E5oyJ1ln4_6Y8nF6AyfR7&opi=89978449

Edited August 5, 2023 by mokwit

[mokwit]

The biggest destruction of trust is changes to retirement extension requirements. I think most of those retired here are more scared of this than outlaw biker gangs.

[Gknrd]

10-1 it will be increased. My guess 2 million, criminal check. The only question is how it will be implemented. Again just a guess, but same as last time .  One year extension on old rules then your next extension will have to comply or out you go. My guess is the agents will have to be pretty well tied into immigration to help, and the fees will double or triple.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Gknrd

[Olmate]

Second bite of the Cherry! 

[Artisi]

There will always be corruption and not just Thailand where unfortunately it's endemic due to the complete lack of accountability - sort that out and things will improve. 

[mokwit]

Just now, Gknrd said:

10-1 it will be increased. My guess 2 million, criminal check. The only question is how it will be implemented. Again just a guess but same as last time .  One year extension on old rules then your next extension will have to comply or out you go.

There was no grandfathering for the additional 400k year 'round requirement - Hapkarn even went as far as to say there had been no changes to the 800k requirement. Fact is everybody had to bring in an additional 400k.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Forget increasing financial limits that won't help at all, do a criminal record check instead

Not every damn year I hope.....

[ikke1959]

31 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Difficult for agents to differentiate between Olaf type criminals and retired pensioners.

 

Maybe time to get rid of people with tattoos

people with tattoos out of he country?? Almost nobody left anymore I think as i see that almost everyone boy, man girl woman must have a least one tattoo or many... Try to find someone without one... A few years back indeed, we all know what kind of people with tattoos were... but nowadays it seems to be a must.. I don't like it at all.. we don't live in New Zealand or tribe were the tattoos have a meaning...   

[Lucky Bones]

3 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Not every damn year I hope.....

Interesting Jacko.

I've lived last 10 years in Thailand. Am currently in Oz.

I had to supply a National Police Check (NPC) for some volunteer work.

Naturally the check came back clear as I haven't been in Oz for 10 years.

Bad-*ss cowboys will always circumnavigate the system, either in their home country or by way of a brown envelope here.

Not sure what the answer is but I reckon the NPC isn't worth the paper it is printed on.

And yeah, waiting to get back to Thailand.????????

[jerrymahoney]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Difficult for agents to differentiate between Olaf type criminals and retired pensioners.

 

Maybe time to get rid of people with tattoos

No -- When I wrote "Friends of the agents?" I was referring to the "Thai officials who clandestinely aid them."

Edited August 5, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[Olmate]

18 minutes ago, Lucky Bones said:

Interesting Jacko.

I've lived last 10 years in Thailand. Am currently in Oz.

I had to supply a National Police Check (NPC) for some volunteer work.

Naturally the check came back clear as I haven't been in Oz for 10 years.

Bad-*ss cowboys will always circumnavigate the system, either in their home country or by way of a brown envelope here.

Not sure what the answer is but I reckon the NPC isn't worth the paper it is printed on.

And yeah, waiting to get back to Thailand.????????

How did you 'circumvent' the oz police check system then? Curious how u think that works in your home country for those bad a$$ cowboys? 

[Yeah rightio]

1 hour ago, stoner said:

i'm sure agents will help with a criminal record check if you cant provide one. 

Not if it's required from your home country as per an application for an OA Visa they won't.

[Yeah rightio]

1 hour ago, Gknrd said:

10-1 it will be increased. My guess 2 million, criminal check. The only question is how it will be implemented. Again just a guess, but same as last time .  One year extension on old rules then your next extension will have to comply or out you go. My guess is the agents will have to be pretty well tied into immigration to help, and the fees will double or triple.

They got me with the O-A insurance scam but, 'catch me once shame on you; catch me twice shame on me.'

It won't be happening again Somchai because, marriage doesn't scare me.....

Edited August 5, 2023 by Yeah rightio

[EVENKEEL]

If money requirements are adjusted to 1.2 mil or 100,000/mo. Would you start using an agent? I use the monthly requirement. If the exchange rate was to take a steep dive I couldn't make the 100K/mo. It would be an agent for my extensions. I can't see the agent's cost going up over 50% more. Still not a bad way to go.

[cleopatra2]

Big Joke as immigration chief always regarded the immigration act outdated and sought to have it rewritten.

 

Now maybe he has sufficient evidence to persuade the person's in authority to do so.

 

My personal opinion is that the prospective changes will involve more than the monies in the bank. It will involve a complete overhaul of the system.

[sqwakvfr]

If the statement about “keeping criminals out” is genuine then the only real solution is s a fingerprint based criminal background check conducted in a visa applicants home country.  In my case an FBI fingerprint based criminal background check would be the answer. In my last Non Imm OA visa application I obtained the FBI Fingerprint based background check.  This can only be done in your home country.  Also, in my case the cost was $50 dollars and the check came back in a few hours. Of course if one has an extensive criminal history the response time could be longer.  

 

Just this requirement alone might reduce the number of all visa applications.   That is unless the Agents can find another solution because after all “TIT”.  

[Ben Zioner]

26 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

If money requirements are adjusted to 1.2 mil or 100,000/mo. Would you start using an agent?

No, as I don't see how I could live in Thailand on less than 100k a month.

[Bday Prang]

1 hour ago, Gknrd said:

10-1 it will be increased. My guess 2 million, criminal check. The only question is how it will be implemented. Again just a guess, but same as last time .  One year extension on old rules then your next extension will have to comply or out you go. My guess is the agents will have to be pretty well tied into immigration to help, and the fees will double or triple.

so the rumour and fear mongering continues,  

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

No -- When I wrote "Friends of the agents?" I was referring to the "Thai officials who clandestinely aid them."

Yes i know I was just jumping ahead if Thai officials pressure agents to weed out the bad guys, which isn't an easy job

[Robin]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

"due to the lack of strict law enforcement and corrupt officials." ( In Thailand)

Could not agree more.  But who is responsible for putting this right?   The RTP or the retired Farangs living in Thailand?

[Robin]

Careful about asking for a 'Criminal Record Check'  as my experience of this (in UK) is that you have to apply in person at your local police station and not that quick or easy.   If this was required for every extension (yearly?) how many of us retires would want to go back to home country every year?

Are we sure hat every M/c gang member has a criminal record?

AS ever it would be far easier for criminals to get round this that ordinary citizens.

[DILLIGAD]

14 minutes ago, Robin said:

Could not agree more.  But who is responsible for putting this right?   The RTP or the retired Farangs living in Thailand?

Exactly. How does changing requirements stop this?

As usual, they deal with the problem, instead of the cause.